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pacomartin
pacomartin
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March 28th, 2012 at 7:07:00 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I think ropa applies more to casual clothing, and indumentaria applies more to something you would wear that has a particular purpose.



I think that it applies to fetish clothing as well as specialized clothing (like ski clothes).
Nareed
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March 28th, 2012 at 12:08:40 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

It's not my example. Perhaps you're not following HB's weight loss challenge.



Lo sé. Por eso digo que es demasiado específico.

Quote:

Today's SWD means clothing. How is it different from ropa, you might ask. I think ropa applies more to casual clothing, and indumentaria applies more to something you would wear that has a particular purpose. Perhaps "attire"or "costume" would be closer in meaning.



It's not an easy one, largely becasue I don't know. I worked for years in the rag trade (that's a Yiddish translation, BTW), and the word "indumentaria" hardly ever came up. I'm inclined to back up your estimate and say it means "attire," but ina general sense. For example, saying "wear appropriate attire to the wedding." "Costume" is mroe specific, as it refers to what a person is wearing at a given time.

"Ropa" means "clothes" and "clothing" in an even more general sense. All kinds of clothes, too, not just casual attire (see?). It's not common, but linens are often called "bed clothes," and coincidentally in Spanish the phrase "ropa de cama" means the same thing. Bonus: the spanish word for "linens" as a general term for sheets, pillow cases and such is "blancos." It's not used often in covnersation, but if you'r ein the local Walmart looking for sheets, you ask "¿Donde está la sección de blancos?"

Quote:

Then again, atuendo also means attire, so I really don't know what sets indumentaria apart.



Nothing. They're synonimous.

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Another word, to add to the confusion, is traje which means suit, including such things as a wet suit or space suit. I'll leave it to the advanced readers to explain it better.



I feel myself alluded for some reason ;)

I fail to see the confussion. As you say "traje" means "suit." This applies to a business suit, a space suit, etc. Perhaps you're referring to the Mexican practice of calling certain other things "trajes." For example, the clothes worn by Mariachi bands are often called "trajes de charro." That's rather specific, not a general term for clothes.

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Como siempre, vestí demasiado mucho para la fiesta. Me sentía ridículo en mi indumentaria. = As usual, I overdressed for the party. I felt ridiculous in my attire.



"Overdressed" is a difficult term to translate. There's no literal equivalent. What it usually means is that you're dressed too elegantly, or too fancily, for a given situation. Like wearing a business suit to a casual gathering, or a floor-length gown to a semi-formal or informal wedding. The best I can do is offer a prhase "me vestí muy elegante para la ocasión."

"Indumentaria" is techincally used correctly (funny Futurama reference for another time), but as I said before the word is hardly ever used. So let's change your example to:

"Me vestí muy elegante para la fiesta. Me sentí ridículo, y me dí cuenta de que debí haber elegido indumentaria más casual." = "I overdressed for the party. I felt ridiculous, and realized I shoudl have worn a more casual attire.

BTW, "demasiado mucho" is menaingless. "Demasiado" means "too much." "Mucho" means "a lot," or "too many." Basically they are near synonims, so they shouldn't be used together.

BTW ][, "me sentía" means "I was feeling," while "sentí," or "me sentí," means "I felt."
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pacomartin
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March 28th, 2012 at 1:06:50 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

"Overdressed" is a difficult term to translate. There's no literal equivalent. What it usually means is that you're dressed too elegantly, or too fancily, for a given situation. Like wearing a business suit to a casual gathering, or a floor-length gown to a semi-formal or informal wedding. The best I can do is offer a phrase "me vestí muy elegante para la ocasión."



How about the following words: overachieved, overcautious, overdo, overdue, overeducated, overindulged, overprepared, and overworked ?

Is overstimulated translated as estimulado?

How about underdressed, underachiever, ...?

I have to admit that overdue is the same as "past due", whereas the other instances it means "too much".
Wizard
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Wizard
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March 29th, 2012 at 5:31:43 AM permalink
Thanks Nareed for a good reply above. So good, I can't think of any comments or follow-up questions. So, let's get on with a new SWD.

Fech: 28 de Marzo, 2012
Palabra: cachivache


My pocket dictionary says SWD means "knick knack." SpanishDict.com goes into more detail, saying it means:

1. Broken crockery, or other old trumpery, laid up in a corner. (m)
2. A despicable, useless, worthless fellow. (Metaphorical) (m)
3. Cachivaches, pots, pants, kitchen utensils. (m)

Where I found the word it was translated from the English "junk," as in a "junk drawer" meaning a drawer where you keep things you hardly ever use, but you don't have the heart to throw away, because someday something in it may come in handy. I'm infamous for having a hard time throwing away cachivaches.

I'm very eager to hear Paco's etymology of the word.



Ejemplo time.

No puedo encontrar algo entre toda mis cachivaches. = I can't find anything among all my junk.
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pacomartin
pacomartin
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March 29th, 2012 at 6:29:19 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I'm very eager to hear Paco's etymology of the word.



It might come from "cachos y vasos" = "pieces and glasses" but no one knows for sure.

I think all languages have some words or phrases whose assonance is valued for it's own sake.


This old man, he played one,
He played knick-knack on my thumb;
With a knick-knack paddywhack,
Give the dog a bone,
This old man came rolling home.
Nareed
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March 29th, 2012 at 7:49:38 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Thanks Nareed for a good reply above.



De nada.

Quote:

I'm very eager to hear Paco's etymology of the word.



The sound of it reminds me of French.

Quote:

No puedo encontrar algo entre toda mis cachivaches. = I can't find anything among all my junk.



"...entre TODOS mis..." Other than that it's fine.
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Nareed
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March 30th, 2012 at 7:57:07 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

How about the following words: overachieved, overcautious, overdo, overdue, overeducated, overindulged, overprepared, and overworked ?



I've been thinking about it, and there's no general rule to cover them. Some can be easily translated, some can't. Excluding the first word, overachieved, take these in order:

Demasiado cuidadoso/a

Sobrepasado/sobrepasar (requiring a precise illustration of what was overdone)

Overdue is problematic, because "due" isn't available in Spanish. A translation would depend on what was overdue. For example, if a library book is overdue, you'd say "Este libro ha pasado la fecha límite de entrega." If you've played 7 million hands of VP without hitting a royal, so it's overdue you'd say "Ya se pasó la flor imperial por mucho."

Sobre-educado, but the term is rather meaningless. You'd ahve to explain the exact meaning in a sentence.

Overindulged has the same trouble as overdue. If you overindulged in alcohol, you'd ahve to say "bebí demasiado." There's no term to cover it.

Overprepared makes no sense to me in English :)

Overworked, well, look at overdue again. Someone complaining I work too much would say "A nareed la trabajan demasiado," or "A Nareed le exigen mucho trabajo."

English overall is a more flexible language, which allows for taking a word, like over, and turning it into a prefix. Spanish rarely works like that.
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Wizard
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March 30th, 2012 at 10:49:08 PM permalink
Fecha: 31 de Marzo, 2012
Palabra: Reprobar


Today's SWD means to fail, at least in the context I found it. According to SpanishDist.com, it has lots of other meanings: To reject, to condemn (censurar), to contradict, to exclude, to upbraid, to reprobate, to damn (condenar).

The question to the advanced readers concerns the relationship between probar, which means to test, and reprobar. In English if you put "re" in front of a verb, it means to do something again. Both stick with the test-taking theme, but to fail a test is not the same as taking a test twice. Then again, maybe you're taking it twice because you failed it the first time.

Ejemplo time.

Reprobé el examen de champú. Creo que abandonar la escuela de belleza. = I flunked the test on shampoo. I think I will drop out of beauty school.

On an unrelated topic, may I ask for a translation of the following sentence, especially the underlined part. No teno idea de lo que es un "sporano," pero durante el camino de vuelta a casa las chicas iban soltando ristas detrás de mí.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
pacomartin
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March 31st, 2012 at 2:33:06 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Fecha: 31 de Marzo, 2012
Palabra: Reprobar

Today's SWD means to fail, at least in the context I found it. According to SpanishDist.com, it has lots of other meanings: To reject, to condemn (censurar), to contradict, to exclude, to upbraid, to reprobate, to damn (condenar).



The Way Back Home



Latin probus (“good, virtuous”)

reprobar (Latin America) to flunk, to fail (to pass an exam, curse etc.)
aprobar to approve, to pass (an exam)
probar to prove, to taste
comprobar to prove; to check; to verify

English: prove, probe, probable, approve, reprobate, proverb / proverbial, provenance, provenience, and reproach (uncertain)

Quote: Wizard

The question to the advanced readers concerns the relationship between probar, which means to test, and reprobar. In English if you put "re" in front of a verb, it means to do something again. Both stick with the test-taking theme, but to fail a test is not the same as taking a test twice.



To quote Wiktionary: The Latin prefix rĕ- has a parallel in Umbrian re-, but its further etymology is unknown (OED). While it carries a general sense of "back" or "backwards", its precise sense is not always clear, and its great productivity in classical Latin has the tendency to obscure its original meaning.

So in Spanish it can mean again but also backwards. It also has a second etymology of Celtic origin that means intensification as in rebueno which means "very good".

--------------------------
Once again I repeat the observation that in English we have word pairs as follows:
cognition & recognition
cognize (rarely used) & recognize

but, in normal speech we often substitute an Anglo Saxon word "know" for the very obscure word "cognize" of Latin origin.

In Spanish the cognates are conocer & reconocer . So usually we translate "to know" as conocer.
Nareed
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March 31st, 2012 at 8:09:34 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Today's SWD means to fail, at least in the context I found it. According to SpanishDist.com, it has lots of other meanings: To reject, to condemn (censurar), to contradict, to exclude, to upbraid, to reprobate, to damn (condenar).



The most commonly used meaning by far is "to fail."

Quote:

The question to the advanced readers concerns the relationship between probar, which means to test, and reprobar. In English if you put "re" in front of a verb, it means to do something again. Both stick with the test-taking theme, but to fail a test is not the same as taking a test twice. Then again, maybe you're taking it twice because you failed it the first time.



No, it's not related, at least not that way. You can fail a homework assignment, too, for example, if the teacher grades it.

Prefixes in Spanish are far from consistent. "Re" in particular does mean "to do something again" or "to do something over," but not always. It can also mean "well." Take a well-known phrase "frijoles refritos." You'd think it means beans which are fried twice, and it's commonly translated to English as "re-fried beans." What it means is "well-fried beans." Or say you did particularly well ona test, much better than you expected to. You'd say "Me fué re-bien en el examen."

In the case of "reprobar," it means neither.

Quote:

Reprobé el examen de champú. Creo que abandonar la escuela de belleza. = I flunked the test on shampoo. I think I will drop out of beauty school.



"..Creo que abandonarÉ la escuela..."

BTW, while "champú" is technically correct and some people do pronounce it that way, most commonly the word used id "shampoo." From time to time you see it spelled as "shampú." In Mexico using the sound "ch" in words spelled with "sh" is seen as low class and ignorant. Just a tip.

Quote:

On an unrelated topic, may I ask for a translation of the following sentence, especially the underlined part. No teno idea de lo que es un "sporano," pero durante el camino de vuelta a casa las chicas iban soltando ristas detrás de mí.



"I've no idea what a soprano is, but on the way back home the girls were giggling behind my back"
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