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Nareed
Nareed
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March 16th, 2012 at 8:47:45 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

The rules for converting verbs into nouns in English are not simple either. For example, look at this English as a Second Language quiz. How would you explain the "rules" in English to a non-native speaker.



No idea how you'd explain, but it looks easy as pie to me. For the record:

Failure
Refusal
Delivery
Robbery
Preparation
Resignation
Pressure
Decision
Dismisal
Omission
Appointment
Intention
Furniture
Liar
Struggle

How did I do it? I just did. That is, I knew the words to use. Whether I memorized them through practice or learned to relate the nouns to the verbs, well, how can I know? I do know in my lessons we never covered any sort of rule for ontaining the noun from a verb, or a verb from a noun. So I suppose I just memorized things through use and practice. My teacher did correct me often, the way I correct the Wizard here.
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Wizard
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Wizard
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March 16th, 2012 at 9:09:56 AM permalink
I have hijacked the Casino Chip of the Day thread into SWD II. I hope the advanced readers here can pay a visit.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
pacomartin
pacomartin
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March 16th, 2012 at 11:37:37 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

No idea how you'd explain, but it looks easy as pie to me.




Well, Latin based verbs that are concerned with mental state or state of affairs were turned into nouns in a similar manner, both adopted into Spanish and English the same way.

Preparation-preparación
Resignation-resignación
Intention-intención
Decision-decisión
Omission-omisión

In English sometimes the Old French suffix "-ure" is used, so you have differences in Spanish. In some cases the root verb is different.

fracasar - "to fail" - failure-fracaso
amueblar - "to furnish" - furniture - muebles
presionar - "to press" - pressure - presión

As this last example diverges between English and Spanish as to which suffix to use. I would expect it would be a natural mistake for a native language Spanish speaker.

In any case, there are at least a half a dozen different ways in English to turn a verb into a noun. It's probably more inconsistent than Spanish.


Quote: Nareed

How did I do it? I just did. That is, I knew the words to use. So I suppose I just memorized things through use and practice. My teacher did correct me often, the way I correct the Wizard here.



Conjugation of a weak English verb is very simple since there are only three endings to learn.
I walk, he walks, I walked yesterday, I have walked 20 miles , I am walking
I deal, he deals, I dealt yesterday, I have dealt cards before , I am dealing
The only difference between the first and the second is for ease of pronunciation you use "t" instead of "ed".


But there are over a 300 irregular verbs in English, most based on an ancient Germanic system of 7 different types of "off-sound" conjugation which is totally alien to Latin.
I write, he writes, I wrote yesterday, I have written 20 novels , I am writing

A native speaker learns these verbs growing up as a child. How did you learn them if you didn't have a table and sit down and try and memorize them?

Class Present Past Participle
I write wrote written
drive drove driven
rise rose risen
bid bid bid
bite bit bitten
shine shone shone
strike struck struck
II choose chose chosen
fly flew flown
freeze froze frozen
III sing sang sung
begin began begun
drink drank drunk
ring rang rung
run ran run
shrink shrank shrunk
sing sang sung
sink sank sunk
spring sprang sprung
sting stung stung
stink stank stunk
swing swung swung
win won* won*
IV break broke broken
get got got
speak spoke spoken
swear swore sworn
tear tore torn
wake woke woken
weave wove woven
V eat ate eaten
give gave given
see saw seen
sit sat sat
bid bid bid
lie lay lain
VI shake shook shaken
take took taken
draw drew drawn
stand stood stood
VII throw threw thrown
blow blew blown
grow grew grown
know knew known
fall fell fallen
hang hung hung
hold held held
Wizard
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Wizard
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March 17th, 2012 at 5:52:36 AM permalink
Fecha: 17 de Marzo, 2012
Palabra: captar


Today's SWD means to grasp/understand. According to the dictionary, it has lots of usages:

1. To captivate, to win, to capture.
2. To grasp, to get, to catch.
3. To collect; to dam, to harness (aguas).
4. To tune in to; to pick up, to receive (emisora).

Here is the sentence were I found it, No estoy muy seguro de que papá capte muy bien el espíritu de Halloween. = I am not very sure dad grasps very well the spirit of Halloween. It is interesting to note that the Spanish translation used the English Halloween. In the last translated book I went through they translated Halloween to día de las brujas.

Ejemplo time.

Aunque tengo una esposa y dos hijas, no capto nada de las mujeres. = Although I have a wife and two daughters, I still don't understand anything about women.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
pacomartin
pacomartin
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March 17th, 2012 at 6:16:11 AM permalink
Todavía no entiendo a las mujeres.= I still don't understand women.
Yo no captar cómo piensan las mujeres = I do not grasp how women think.

Nareed
Nareed
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March 17th, 2012 at 6:37:54 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Yo no captar cómo piensan las mujeres = I do not grasp how women think.



"Me no grasp how women think."

You wanted "No capto como piennsan las mujeres."

I've got to dash to the electrologist, but I'll post more about the subject later.
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Nareed
Nareed
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March 17th, 2012 at 5:19:21 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

1. To captivate, to win, to capture.



You need to be careful with the multiple meanings. In this case capture means something more akin to "recording." That is, for example, capturing an image with a camera, or capturing the moment, or capturing the mood in a movie, etc. It does not mean to trap or to apprehend.

One meaning, too, applies to getting a good reception. If you're far from any broadcast facilities, for example, you could say "Aquí el radio no capta nada."

Quote:

It is interesting to note that the Spanish translation used the English Halloween. In the last translated book I went through they translated Halloween to día de las brujas.



We've been through this, I'm sure. I think I used "Halloween" as a SWD once...

Quote:

Aunque tengo una esposa y dos hijas, no capto nada de las mujeres. = Although I have a wife and two daughters, I still don't understand anything about women.



That's not wrong, per se, but it sounds odd. It seems odd in English, too. Saying "... I don't understand anything about women" sounds more natural in both languages. But the use of the word is correct.
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Wizard
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March 17th, 2012 at 8:54:58 PM permalink
Thanks for the help yesterday, but let's move on.

Fecha: 18 de Marzo, 2012
Palabra: cuestión


One of the first word one learns in Spanish is pregunta, which means question. However, there is another one to confuse people like me, cuestión. At least it is an easy cognate.

The obvious question for the advanced readers is what is the difference between pregunta y cuestión? Based on the context of the sentence I found it in, cuestión didn't refer to a specific request for information, but more of question in the rhetorical sense, as in "There is no question about it."

Ejemplo time.

Está or no está, esa es la cuestión. = To be or not to be, that is the question.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Nareed
Nareed
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March 17th, 2012 at 9:26:36 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

The obvious question for the advanced readers is what is the difference between pregunta y cuestión?



Meaning "question" there is no difference. But "cuestión" also means "matter" or "subject."

Quote:

Based on the context of the sentence I found it in, cuestión didn't refer to a specific request for information, but more of question in the rhetorical sense, as in "There is no question about it."



In that specific example, the phrase would be "No hay ninguna duda" The last word means "doubt."

Quote:

Está or no está, esa es la cuestión. = To be or not to be, that is the question.



You picked the wrong meaning. Hamlet's soliloquy in Spanish goes "Ser o no ser, esa es la cuestión."
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pacomartin
pacomartin
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March 17th, 2012 at 9:30:53 PM permalink
(1) !Ser o no ser, esa es la cuestión! - Bookshare (Same as Nareed)
(2) ¡Ser, o no ser, es la cuestión! translated into Spanish by Rafael Pombo, Colombian poet (Bogotá, 7 November 1833 - 5 May 1912).
(3) Existir o no existir, ésta es la cuestión. Virtual Cervantes

You ask preguntas but you do no ask cuestiones;
never say "¿Puedo preguntar una cuestión? nor ¿Puedo hacer una cuestión?"

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