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Wizard
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Wizard
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December 9th, 2011 at 2:29:45 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

While coffee is a social drink in America, it is also a personal drink. The article implies that mate is mostly social in Argentina.



I've read that in other sources, and disagree. Yes, I did see friends sitting in a park drinking maté. However, lots of times I saw somebody by him/herself drinking it. Especially shopkeepers. The gal who showed me around said she liked to drink it with friends, but drank it on her own too, to stay awake to study.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
pacomartin
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December 9th, 2011 at 4:13:54 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Too literal. You might say "Suelta mi yogurt o te pegaré," but it sounds wrong.



I was thinking about Nareed's comment.

In English we tend to use either the present or the present progressive for the near future.

After dinner, I am exercising to lose some weight. (present progressive tense describing an action planned for the near future)
After dinner, I will exercise to lose some weight. (future tense).

The second sentence might easily be described as "too literal". It is correct grammar, but it sounds somewhat stilted.

It's the same in Spanish. The future tense (either the inflected verbs or the voy,vas,va,vamos,van + infinitive future) is not commonly used for the "near future".
Wizard
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Wizard
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December 9th, 2011 at 6:40:41 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin


After dinner, I am exercising to lose some weight. (present progressive tense describing an action planned for the near future)
After dinner, I will exercise to lose some weight. (future tense).



I would say it the second way. The first way sounds like bad English to me, although I know that usage is not uncommon.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
pacomartin
pacomartin
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December 9th, 2011 at 7:13:39 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Quote: pacomartin


After dinner, I am exercising to lose some weight. (present progressive tense describing an action planned for the near future)
After dinner, I will exercise to lose some weight. (future tense).



I would say it the second way. The first way sounds like bad English to me, although I know that usage is not uncommon.



Just looking through some English as a Second Language webpages. Sometimes they don't use the term near future, but instead imminent future.

example.
I'm coming, just let me tie my shoes. as opposed to
I will come, just let me tie my shoes.

of course
I will be there, just let me tie my shoes. works just as well.

Examples given in the 501 Spanish verb book where the action is in the near future:
My brother arrives tomorrow. (present tense in English)
Shall we listen to a recording now? (future tense in English)

The present tense is used is in Spanish.
Mi hermano llega mañana.
¿Escuchamos un disco ahora?


Of course, "My brother will arrive tomorrow." is not incorrect. It's just that you are more likely to say it the first way.
Wizard
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Wizard
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December 9th, 2011 at 9:43:53 PM permalink
As a student of both languages, have you ever considered hosting a thread on the English word of the day?

I also say "My brother arrives tomorrow." is not proper English. I would say "will arrive," or "shall arrive." Yes, lots of people speak that way, but that doesn't make it right. Then again, I could be wrong. That is why I have to pay a proofreader.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
pacomartin
pacomartin
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December 10th, 2011 at 4:41:58 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I also say "My brother arrives tomorrow." is not proper English.


I chose the sentence from a book by Dr. Chris Kendris who holds a BA, and an MA from Columbia University, a MA and a PhD from Northwestern, two additional degrees from the Sorbonne and who was the translator at the State Department in Paris. I didn't want there to be a dispute. But of course, My brother will arrive tomorrow. is also proper English.

In any case, the future tense is not used very much (either the inflected form or the va,vas,va,vamos,van + infinitive form). Try looking through some newspaper articles. These opening paragraphs are from a CNN article about the new Apple Store in Central Station in New York.

I see only one use of the future tense, and it is for a very specific case. Interestingly we don't use the future tense in English here. Do you see others?

Quote: (CNN)


Apple sorprende con su "Grand Store" en la estación central de Nueva York

Este viernes, cuando Apple dé a conocer su nueva tienda, los neoyorquinos tendrán un primer vistazo de la arquitectura clásica con una tienda minorista de computadoras y otros gadgets dentro de la terminal Grand Central.

Detrás de la fachada negra temporal, que durante semanas ostentó letreros de “llegará pronto”, Apple estuvo negociando agresiva y sigilosamente con los contratistas y las agencias del gobierno para asegurar rápidamente un trato favorable. La Apple Store de Grand Central es sólo una de las varias tiendas de alto perfil que la empresa prepara con su característico anonimato.

Las entrevistas con casi dos docenas de personas que participant en el desarrollo de las próximas tiendas y de las más recientes en Estados Unidos incluyen la de la terminal Grand Central, ofrecen una visión a la inusual cautela de Apple en su forma de hacer negocios. Estas personas dicen que Apple algunas veces emplea tácticas legales poco comunes, se niega a dar su nombre en los documentos públicos y en las audiencias y hace que los funcionarios del gobierno de la ciudad prometan guarder el secreto.

Las astutas tácticas de Apple para negociar son muy conocidas en otras áreas de su negocio. Los acuerdos de confidencialidad se hacen cumplir estrictamente con los empleados, contratistas y socios, y el castigo por la deslealtad es rápido e implacable.

Por ejemplo, pueden despedir a los empleados que filtran memorandos internos tan pronto los descubren. Cuando los prototipos del iPhone se perdieron en bares durante dos años consecutivos, la policía registró las casas de las personas de quienes sospechaba que los tenían.



  1. sorprende
  2. conocer
  3. tendrán
  4. ostentó
  5. llegará
  6. estuvo negociando
  7. asegurar
  8. es
  9. prepara
  10. ofrecen
  11. hacer
  12. dicen
  13. emplea
  14. se niega
  15. a dar
  16. hace
  17. prometan
  18. guarder
  19. negociar
  20. son
  21. se hacen
  22. cumplir
  23. pueden
  24. despedir
  25. filtran
  26. perdieron
  27. registró
  28. quienes
  29. tenían
Wizard
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Wizard
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December 10th, 2011 at 6:54:43 AM permalink
Thanks. No further comment from me on the future tense, in either idioma.

Fecha: 10 de Deciembre, 2011
Linda: Sonreír = to smile.
Feo: Lengua = tongue.

Ejemplo time:

Le sonreí. Entonces ella le sacó la lengua a mí. = I smiled at her. So, she stuck her tongue out at me.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
pacomartin
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December 10th, 2011 at 9:06:41 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Thanks. No further comment from me on the future tense, in either idioma.

Fecha: 10 de Deciembre, 2011
Linda: Sonreír = to smile.
Feo: Lengua = tongue.

Ejemplo time:

Le sonreí. Entonces ella le sacó la lengua a mí. = I smiled at her. So, she stuck her tongue out at me.



Related words
reír = to laugh (verb)
sonreír = to smile (verb)
risa = laugh (noun)
sonrisa = smile (noun)
sonriente = smiling (adjective)



While English retains expression like mother tongue for language, most of the time we use language, but Spanish uses the same word lengua consistently for both the organ and language.

A famous geographic feature in Bahamas near Florida is a deepwater trench surrounded by shallow reefs. It is known as the Tongue of the Ocean. I do not know if the word is used in Spanish for tongue shaped geographic features.

=====================
One final comment on the future tense. The sign in English Coming Soon does not use the future tense, which would be Will Come Soon. However, the future was used in Spanish.
Nareed
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December 11th, 2011 at 5:08:44 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Le sonreí. Entonces ella le sacó la lengua a mí. = I smiled at her. So, she stuck her tongue out at me.



This is going to be hard....

1) Your ejemplo makes no sense. I won't even try to tell you what you said.

2) The right way to say it doesn't make sense either :)

"Entonces ella ME sacó la lengua."

Literally this means "she stuck my tongue out." And that makes no sense. But that's how people say it anyway. Properly speaking, the phrase should be "ella me sacó su lengua," but no one says it that way.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Nareed
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December 11th, 2011 at 5:14:30 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

While English retains expression like mother tongue for language, most of the time we use language, but Spanish uses the same word lengua consistently for both the organ and language.



Yes and no.

An English speaker might say "Of course Nareed is fluent in Spanish. It's her native tongue."

A Spanish speaker would say "Por supuesto que Paco habla bien Inglés. Es su idioma natal."

Point being in Spanish the word "idioma" is used for "language" far more often than "lengua." I estimate "lenguaje" comes in second. What may seem to skew the stats is the Real Academia de la LENGUA Española.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal

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