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Wizard
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December 8th, 2011 at 9:48:41 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Esperanza Rising is an award winning book written by Pam Muñoz Ryan who grew up in California. She is not a native speaker, but she grew up hearing Spanish and has studied the language. The original book is mostly English but with some Spanish. I suspect she had a lot more input into the translation than Beverly Cleary.
But that looks more like 6th grade reading level



Thanks for the suggestion. I bought a lot of children's books at a bookstore in the Mexico City airport, but will add this to my collection my next Amazon order, if I remember.

I think the the Spanish translation of the Beverly Cleary books could be better. In the chapter I just finished, the Spanish version completely left off the last paragraph. Other times I think the translator didn't understand an English idiom and just made up something that seemed to flow well.

I would think that if a bilingual writer wrote books specifically in both languages they would be a great way to pick up a new language and sell well. Most conventional ways of learning a language on your own are terribly boring and/or hard. I think if Beverly knew that her book would get translated, she wouldn't be so quick to use colorful idiomatic expressions like the one in your example, and keep things simpler.
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pacomartin
pacomartin
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December 8th, 2011 at 11:23:00 AM permalink
Bilingual Books specializes in children's books written in both languages side by side from the beginning.

One book on the list is of interest for it's author:
Quote: Subcomandante Insurgente Marcos

The Story of Colors/La Historia de Los Colores
A folktale from the jungles of Chiapas, tells how the gods found the colors of the world. From the down-to-earth wisdom of the indigenous peoples of Chiapas, a fresh perspective on the struggles of the people there as they fight to conserve their culture & a vision of the world they see as “flowering with holiness” - that can’t be measured in dollars or defined by politics.
Ages: 8+



Subcomandante Marcos is the spokesman for the Zapatista Army of National Liberation (EZLN), a Mexican rebel movement fighting for the rights of the indigenous peoples of Mexico. On the 1st of January 1994, when the U.S.–Mexico free trade agreement became effective, Subcomandante Marcos led an army of Mayan farmers into eastern Chiapas state, and took over the town of San Cristobal de las Casas[/ur]. The municipality contains over 80 hotels with more than 2,000 rooms.



The Mexican government alleges Marcos to be one "Rafael Sebastián Guillén Vicente", born June 19, 1957 in Tampico, Tamaulipas to Spanish immigrants. He has not revealed his face publicly in over 20 years. Of the 21 books he has written, the children's book above is the best selling one.
Nareed
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December 8th, 2011 at 2:15:49 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Fecha: 12-8-11



That's 8-12-11 :) Sorry, but Spanish dates are day/month/year.

Quote:

Lindo: Estropear (to break)



I'm afraid that's wrong. "Estropear" means "to spoil." It may mean "to break" in the sense of causing something to malfunction. For example:

Quote:

El ladrido de el perro estropeó el silencio de la noche. = The barking dog broke the silence of the night.



Your translation is off. The spanish phrase says "The dog's bark spoiled the quiet of the night."

Now for to break: "Estropeaste el motor por no checar el aceite." = "you broke the engine because you dind't check the oil." Not a very good one, but you get the idea.

BTW "Estropear" isn't used much. It's another literal word. More commonly you'd say "echaste a perder," or avariation thereof.

Quote:

Eso comida no estaba de acuerdo con mi estómago. = That meal did not agree with my stomach.



Again, not quite right. The phraseology just dones't work in spanish. Try "EsA comida le hizo daño a mi estomago."
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pacomartin
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December 8th, 2011 at 3:33:42 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

I'm afraid that's wrong. "Estropear" means "to spoil."



My dictionary says estropear is based on an Italian loanward stroppiare.

A more 'natural' Spanish synonym would be the double infinitive echar a perder. I see that phrase all over the web. In some cases I see echar perder, but it always seems to be people who don't write in Spanish very well.

I am confused about using the word "a" as a conjunction between two infinitives. Which sentence is correct?
¿Me puedes enseñar a bailar?"
¿Me puedes enseñar bailar?"

It seems like most of the time the word "a" is not necessary, as in "poder hablar".
Nareed
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December 8th, 2011 at 3:38:57 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Yup, that is the book I'm reading, and I make no apologies. My Spanish is at about a second grade level, at best, so this is the best I can do. I have a bilingual version of Treasure Island, but it is way too hard for me. Sadly, I can't think of a more effective way to learn the language than to go through translations of children's books.



While I was learning English there were simplified versions of books at the school library. I used those at first for a brief time. I don't know why I dind't think of this before. Anyway, try asking your tutor whether there's something like that in Spanish.
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Wizard
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December 8th, 2011 at 3:43:54 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Which sentence is correct?
¿Me puedes enseñar a bailar?"
¿Me puedes enseñar bailar?"



If forced, I think the first is right. Having three verbs in a row just feels unnatural. I know the dictionaries say a, in Spanish, means "at," but I've learned there is seldom a one to one connection with prepositions. In this case my guess would be that it acts more like "to." Then again, don't listen to me, I'm just hazarding my own guess.
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Nareed
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December 8th, 2011 at 4:23:31 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

I am confused about using the word "a" as a conjunction between two infinitives. Which sentence is correct?
¿Me puedes enseñar a bailar?"
¿Me puedes enseñar bailar?"



The first one. You don't say in English "Can you to teach me dance?" do you?

Quote:

It seems like most of the time the word "a" is not necessary, as in "poder hablar".



"Poder hablar" can be used correctly in some cases. For example, someone who has their jaw wired shut might say "Pasé dos semanas sin poder hablar." But it's about as common as having your jaw wired shut :)
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Nareed
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December 8th, 2011 at 4:28:46 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I think if Beverly knew that her book would get translated, she wouldn't be so quick to use colorful idiomatic expressions like the one in your example, and keep things simpler.



Not likely. Many books get translated. An author will write what she wants to say, and in many cases just how she wants to say it. if that hurts the translation, well, i can't think of an author who'd give it more than a passing thought.

The problem lies, as we've discussed before, with shoddy translation. One thing that spurred me to gain fluency in English was reading, because the available translations were so awful. Tranlsating things well is an "art" in a way. First you have to convey meaning, then the feel and lastly the style. the last is often impossible to put accross, and it works better with unornamented, clear writing. The feel can be hard, too.
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Wizard
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December 8th, 2011 at 8:42:24 PM permalink
I didn't express myself well. I meant that if a book were written with the intention of being translated then it should use words and phrases that translate well.
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Wizard
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December 8th, 2011 at 9:31:01 PM permalink
Fecha: Dec. 9, 2011
Lindo: Soltar (to let go)
Feo: Yogur (yogurt)

Ejemplo time.

Soltas a mi yogur antes que te voy a golpar. = Let go of my yogurt before I hit you.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.

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