Poll

5 votes (62.5%)
1 vote (12.5%)
3 votes (37.5%)
1 vote (12.5%)
No votes (0%)

8 members have voted

Wizard
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May 24th, 2024 at 6:12:24 AM permalink
I've been hearing more and more about this question.

If you're a woman, suppose you're walking in the woods by yourself. Would you rather come across a man or a bear?

For the men, ask the same question but your grown daughter is the one walking in the woods.

It's my understanding that women are almost unanimous and very vocal in their choice of a bear.

Men are more divided or unsure.

I've done some searching and can't find any good statistics that help with the question being asked. I've seen people get at the probability estimate that any given man or bear will attack someone in a give year, but that isn't the same thing. If you do look at it that way, I think you would get bear is the right choice. However, I contend there are a lot of bears that don't make much human contact.

This will also depend on the type of bear, but I think it can be assumed a randomly chosen bear. It might make a difference if we include Alaska, which has a lot of grizzly and polar bears, which are more dangerous.

I can say I've been close enough to see bears a few times, twice in Yosemite, and nothing happened. Twice in Lake Tahoe I came within about 50 feet of a bear but both times it paid no attention to me.

My initial response to this question, if forced to choose, was a man. Now I'm not so sure.

Anyone have some good statistics to help?

The question for the poll is which would you pick?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
aceside
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May 24th, 2024 at 6:35:59 AM permalink
Iím a man. I never understand women. Skip this question.
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May 24th, 2024 at 7:03:20 AM permalink
All humans are just horrible. I can at least train the bear and talk to it and it doesnít have an opinion whether or not what I said made them feel like
Hunterhill
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May 24th, 2024 at 7:05:11 AM permalink
It really depends on what type of bear. If itís a black bear , Panda or Koala I would say a bear.
If itís a polar or grizzly I would say a man.
The mountain is tall but grass grows on top of the mountain.
TigerWu
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May 24th, 2024 at 7:22:40 AM permalink
The question wasn't meant to be taken literally. It was a metaphor to show how some women feel about men.

If you look at it literally, completely at face value, it makes sense to go with bear, because statistically the average woman is far more likely to be assaulted by a man than a bear. But that's obviously only because the average woman encounters thousands and thousands of men throughout her life, and like zero bears. If women encountered bears as often as they encountered men, they would have a different answer to the question.

But again, the whole thing was just a metaphor, and kind of a stupid one, because it was comparing apples to oranges.

For the purposes of this poll, though, I would go with man. The odds are extremely likely the man is not up to anything nefarious, and even in a worst case scenario where I am attacked, I would rather fight a man than a bear.
mcallister3200
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May 24th, 2024 at 7:54:46 AM permalink
Grizzly vs black bear is everythingÖ.assuming black bear Iíd rather come across a bear that Iím scared of for simply existing than a random woman thatís scared of me for simply existing.

IMHO pig should be added to the poll.
Gialmere
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May 24th, 2024 at 8:03:11 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Twice in Lake Tahoe I came within about 50 feet of a bear but both times it paid no attention to me.
link to original post


The last time I was in Tahoe we rented a cabin for the whole family. One night, my daughter was walking alone through the cabin area when she ran into a bear. She was scared out of her mind. The bear, however, completely ignored her and proceeded to nonchalantly rummage through all the garbage cans. Who's gonna stop him?

The bears of Tahoe seem to have the game all figured out. Sometimes I think that the ones who are smarter than the average bear should bring little companion Boo Boo bears with them, just in case the tourists want to turn the encounter into a photo op.
Have you tried 22 tonight? I said 22.
Nathan
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May 24th, 2024 at 8:23:35 AM permalink
I am a woman and I chose the MAN. A Bear is most likely to Murder me than a Man. 💡 Three other people also chose the MAN too. No one chose the bear. 💡
In both The Hunger Games and in gambling, may the odds be ever in your favor. :D "Man Babes" #AxelFabulous "Olive oil is processed but it only has one ingredient, olive oil."-Even Bob, March 27/28th. :D The 2 year war is over! Woo-hoo! :D I sometimes speak in metaphors. ;) Remember this. ;) Crack the code. :D 8.9.13.25.14.1.13.5.9.19.14.1.20.8.1.14! :D "For about the 4096th time, let me offer a radical idea to those of you who don't like Nathan -- block her and don't visit Nathan's Corner. What is so complicated about it?" Wizard, August 21st. :D
rxwine
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May 24th, 2024 at 8:48:20 AM permalink
I don't know, but I think a bear coming out of my toilet would scare the hell out of me. More than a snake at least.
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Wizard
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May 24th, 2024 at 8:52:23 AM permalink
I think based on context, we can assume a black bear. However, since it is in the woods, we can ignore those bears that are looking to break into trash cans, which are probably pretty safe to be around. It's a distinct possibility the woman might wander between a mother bear and her cubs, which can be trouble.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
MDawg
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May 24th, 2024 at 9:29:12 AM permalink
How about the forest rape scene at the end of Under the Skin (2013) where the guy is pulling off Scarlett Johansson's clothes then realizes she's an alien, and runs off.
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
odiousgambit
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May 24th, 2024 at 9:47:24 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I think based on context, we can assume a black bear. However, since it is in the woods, we can ignore those bears that are looking to break into trash cans, which are probably pretty safe to be around. It's a distinct possibility the woman might wander between a mother bear and her cubs, which can be trouble.
link to original post

Those kinds of qualifiers really make it complicated, as would saying the man had clear reason to be in the woods or not.

I do think you have to qualify the type of bear, and no mother with cubs

Black bear: it's very rare to be attacked especially if you don't do something stupid like run. She should prefer to come upon the bear.

Grizzly bear: It's close but I'm leaning towards her being better off coming across a man.

BTW, from what I can tell, Canadians call grizzlies 'brown bears' and are surprised that everyone doesn't call them brown bears

Polar bear: If it's true what you hear about them, no question but what she should want anything but this bear.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: ďThanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!Ē   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
gordonm888
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May 24th, 2024 at 9:58:56 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

Quote: Wizard

I think based on context, we can assume a black bear. However, since it is in the woods, we can ignore those bears that are looking to break into trash cans, which are probably pretty safe to be around. It's a distinct possibility the woman might wander between a mother bear and her cubs, which can be trouble.
link to original post

Those kinds of qualifiers really make it complicated, as would saying the man had clear reason to be in the woods or not.

I do think you have to qualify the type of bear, and no mother with cubs

Black bear: it's very rare to be attacked especially if you don't do something stupid like run. She should prefer to come upon the bear.

Grizzly bear: It's close but I'm leaning towards her being better off coming across a man.

BTW, from what I can tell, Canadians call grizzlies 'brown bears' and are surprised that everyone doesn't call them brown bears

Polar bear: If it's true what you hear about them, no question but what she should want anything but this bear.
link to original post



I strongly agree with every aspect of this analysis. Black bear, meh -I've seen several in the woods (although it gets your attention.)

But I'd rather meet the hillybilly with a gun from Deliverance who wants me to squeal like a pig than a polar bear who wants to treat me like I'm dessert.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
mcallister3200
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May 24th, 2024 at 10:00:40 AM permalink
Edit: Gordon beat me to a deliverance reference by 2 minutes.
TigerWu
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May 24th, 2024 at 10:10:08 AM permalink
If you're going to qualify the bears into different types, why not the men.... LOL...
Deucekies
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May 24th, 2024 at 10:49:34 AM permalink
We as men shouldn't be asking ourselves whether women are logically or mathematically correct to choose the bear. We should be asking ourselves why women feel so unsafe in the presence of men. And then we should ask ourselves what we can do to change that.
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TigerWu
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May 24th, 2024 at 11:32:34 AM permalink
Quote: Deucekies

We as men shouldn't be asking ourselves whether women are logically or mathematically correct to choose the bear.



I agree in theory, but the fact that this question became so controversial on the internet perfectly illustrates the point that it is a terrible metaphor.

Quote:

We should be asking ourselves why women feel so unsafe in the presence of men.



We know why.... because a lot of women have been sexually assaulted and harassed by men.

Quote:

And then we should ask ourselves what we can do to change that.
link to original post



There's nothing I can personally do other than continue to NOT sexually assault and harass women. What other men do is out of my control.
EvenBob
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May 24th, 2024 at 11:33:48 AM permalink
What this is about is women have been trained for the last 20 years that all men are pigs waiting to attack them anytime we can get them alone. So they would rather meet a wild animal in the woods then take their chances with a single man who in their mind is going to attack them and rape them and probably murder them no matter who he is or what he looks like. If you pay attention to what's being said by young modern women they don't even like men saying nice things to them anymore. If you tell them you're they're attractive this makes you a toxic masculine piece of excrement. If they show up at your local gym wearing the tightest leotards you can imagine and you are caught looking at them was even a glance you're the biggest toxic masculine Pig that ever graced the Earth and they will scream in your face. So of course they'd rather take their chances with a wild animal at the same time wondering why nobody ever asks them out on a date.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
mcallister3200
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May 24th, 2024 at 11:52:10 AM permalink
Quote: Deucekies

We as men shouldn't be asking ourselves whether women are logically or mathematically correct to choose the bear. We should be asking ourselves why women feel so unsafe in the presence of men. And then we should ask ourselves what we can do to change that.
link to original post



We could all kill ourselves. Itís the only thing more likely than not to solve the problem.
rxwine
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May 24th, 2024 at 12:17:28 PM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

If you're going to qualify the bears into different types, why not the men.... LOL...
link to original post



Öso, youíre in the woods next to a poorly guarded prison for the criminally insane, and weirdly enough when they escape (which they often do) they have axes, knifes and chainsawsÖ.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
TigerWu
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May 24th, 2024 at 1:05:49 PM permalink
Quote: mcallister3200

Quote: Deucekies

We as men shouldn't be asking ourselves whether women are logically or mathematically correct to choose the bear. We should be asking ourselves why women feel so unsafe in the presence of men. And then we should ask ourselves what we can do to change that.
link to original post



We could all kill ourselves. Itís the only thing more likely than not to solve the problem.
link to original post



Killing all women would solve the problem, too.....LOL
DRich
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May 24th, 2024 at 1:10:59 PM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

Quote: mcallister3200

Quote: Deucekies

We as men shouldn't be asking ourselves whether women are logically or mathematically correct to choose the bear. We should be asking ourselves why women feel so unsafe in the presence of men. And then we should ask ourselves what we can do to change that.
link to original post



We could all kill ourselves. Itís the only thing more likely than not to solve the problem.
link to original post



Killing all women would solve the problem, too.....LOL
link to original post



I we just kill all babies the problem will go away.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
Wizard
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May 25th, 2024 at 6:37:32 PM permalink
My brother works for the Forest Service in the Upper Peninsula or Michigan. One of his many job responsibilities is teaching bear safety. I asked him the probability a bear encounter would result in an attack. His answer was 0.001%. He went onto say, "I learned that there have been zero human fatalities from bear in Wisconsin, but 3 in Michigan, including one circus fatality from a brown bear."

This causes me to lean more towards the bear being safer, especially if the bear is a black bear.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
EvenBob
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May 25th, 2024 at 6:44:22 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

My brother works for the Forest Service in the Upper Peninsula or Michigan. One of his many job responsibilities is teaching bear safety. I asked him the probability a bear encounter would result in an attack. His answer was 0.001%. He went onto say, "I learned that there have been zero human fatalities from bear in Wisconsin, but 3 in Michigan, including one circus fatality from a brown bear."

This causes me to lean more towards the bear being safer, especially if the bear is a black bear.
link to original post



Yeah but this has nothing to do with the bear. It has everything to do with women saying they would rather confront a wild animal than a man alone in the woods. Your average woman doesn't know if a bear will attack her or not but she's saying she's willing to take her chances because men have gotten such a bad rap in the last 20 years. We are all vicious overly horny toxic masculine jerks who would like nothing better than to attack any woman we find alone in the woods. That's what they think.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
Wizard
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May 25th, 2024 at 6:57:08 PM permalink
Note that this helps the question at hand much, but here here is a Wiki page on List of fatal bear attacks in North America.

Only 31% of sexual assaults go reported. Source: How Common Is Sexual Assault? Look at These Statistics.

"On average, there are 433,648 victims (age 12 or older) of rape and sexual assault each year in the United States." -- Source: https://www.savacenterga.org.

"It is estimated that 93% of juvenile victims and between 84% Ė 90% of adult victims knew their perpetrators. " -- It is estimated that 93% of juvenile victims and between 84% Ė 90% of adult victims knew their perpetrators. source.

"The researchers offered averages from their own survey research, which turned out to be an 2 rapes per rapist. Another study reported in the article looked at the total number of DNA matches in a DNA database and found that the repeat offenders (defined as those who had two or more matching samples), raped 2 victims." -- source
Last edited by: Wizard on May 25, 2024
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
TomG
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May 25th, 2024 at 7:09:08 PM permalink
If someone goes into the woods in bear country, it's because they want to get their pictures or videos of the bear and get away from people. This question is a bit like asking "if you're playing blackjack and take a hit would you rather draw to 21 or go bust?"
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May 25th, 2024 at 7:24:25 PM permalink
Iím very pleased the wizard seemingly sided with me without saying so. Humans know they have choice and itís not fun without risk. Choice and risk two things bears know nothing about conciously.
EvenBob
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May 25th, 2024 at 7:33:53 PM permalink
Quote: heatmap

Iím very pleased the wizard seemingly sided with me without saying so. Humans know they have choice and itís not fun without risk. Choice and risk two things bears know nothing about conciously.
link to original post



Good grief, this has nothing to do with BEARS!!! Pick another wild animal, pick a mountain lion or a tiger. A woman is saying she would rather confront a tiger in the woods that confront a single man. This is a perfect example of what men do that women don't like. We take everything literally, this is why we don't understand women. The bear has nothing to do with anything, the whole thing is a metaphor.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
Wizard
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May 25th, 2024 at 7:41:19 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Good grief, this has nothing to do with BEARS!!!
link to original post



Of course, it should be about bears. I'd like to write a proper article on the probabilities.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
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May 25th, 2024 at 7:55:52 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Quote: heatmap

Iím very pleased the wizard seemingly sided with me without saying so. Humans know they have choice and itís not fun without risk. Choice and risk two things bears know nothing about conciously.
link to original post



Good grief, this has nothing to do with BEARS!!! Pick another wild animal, pick a mountain lion or a tiger. A woman is saying she would rather confront a tiger in the woods that confront a single man. This is a perfect example of what men do that women don't like. We take everything literally, this is why we don't understand women. The bear has nothing to do with anything, the whole thing is a metaphor.
link to original post



You realize that I donít have to chose to understand even if I do understand. Thatís the thing that women donít understand. They think they are here physically and thatís all that there is to it. But logically, aka virtually, aka in my own mind I can chose to not ďunderstandĒ.

And thatís why women also hate us as a different species. We chose to mess with people because itís all made up to begin with and they are playing our sick game.
gordonm888
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Wizard
May 26th, 2024 at 5:39:33 AM permalink
I have had three different encounters with black bears back when I hiked 1300 miles on the Appalachian Trail (AT). And I've probably read a hundred accounts of people walking the AT and hearing about their encounters with black bears. I don't need a westerner to quote me statistics about black bears. I understand black bears and have experienced the emotions a person feels when encountering a wild animal that can kill you if it wants to.

So, I'm extremely cautious when I see one. But I'm not hysterical or terrified because I know what to do. "Look around for cubs and slowly walk away. Do nothing to excite the bear."

I have also met a woman, named Connie, walking alone in the woods. She was from Indiana and was backpacking alone for 5 days on the Appalachian Trail. She was my age then (21) and attractive with a nice figure - the only woman I ever met hiking alone in 3.5 months on the Trail. I had a 40 lb backpack on my back and was walking about 19 miles that day -which really suppresses the libido. So, I was friendly but "business-like."

But Connie asks if she can hike with me, because we're going the same way. And we hike about 4 hours together, talking. Then at a rest break she asks me "Would it be okay if we kiss?" And, I said "Yes, sure" and I stepped up to her and kissed her. I then stepped back and she astonished me by saying: "Can I hike the Appalachian Trail with you?" Well, we talked about that a bit and I said yes. When we got to a town, she got on the telephone and made some calls. She quit her job and the house she was renting with 4 other young people in Gary, IN. And she and I hiked about 950 miles together and spent a couple of months together after quitting the trail.

And yes, we did what a man and a woman do when they like each other. And we did it many times. We didn't have sex every day, because we were often exhausted, sore, sunburned or soaked with rain and sharing huts with other campers. But when we stopped at a town every 6-10 days and showered and ate - well we went at it three to four times a day. Our relationship transformed my Appalachian Trail hike into something very special.

So, all things considered, I'd rather have a single woman meet me in the woods. Because life can be very good.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
DRich
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May 26th, 2024 at 5:49:33 AM permalink
Quote: heatmap

Quote: EvenBob

Quote: heatmap

Iím very pleased the wizard seemingly sided with me without saying so. Humans know they have choice and itís not fun without risk. Choice and risk two things bears know nothing about conciously.
link to original post



Good grief, this has nothing to do with BEARS!!! Pick another wild animal, pick a mountain lion or a tiger. A woman is saying she would rather confront a tiger in the woods that confront a single man. This is a perfect example of what men do that women don't like. We take everything literally, this is why we don't understand women. The bear has nothing to do with anything, the whole thing is a metaphor.
link to original post



You realize that I donít have to chose to understand even if I do understand. Thatís the thing that women donít understand. They think they are here physically and thatís all that there is to it. But logically, aka virtually, aka in my own mind I can chose to not ďunderstandĒ.

And thatís why women also hate us as a different species. We chose to mess with people because itís all made up to begin with and they are playing our sick game.
link to original post



I don't know why, but this reminded me of a quote from the TV show Cheers. Sam Malone: "How many women do I need to sleep with before I understand just one."
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
Wizard
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May 26th, 2024 at 5:55:15 AM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

I have also met a woman, named Connie, ...
link to original post



Great story! I didn't know you did so much of the AT. I've done about 200 miles of it, a section from the southern Shenandoah National Park to about 50 miles into PA.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
gordonm888
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May 26th, 2024 at 6:30:09 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Quote: gordonm888

I have also met a woman, named Connie, ...
link to original post



Great story! I didn't know you did so much of the AT. I've done about 200 miles of it, a section from the southern Shenandoah National Park to about 50 miles into PA.
link to original post



When Connie proposed that she hike the AT together with me, she told me she could only average 14 miles/day. And I needed to average about 19/mi day to complete the whole trail before my college year started up. So my choice became: my dream of hiking the entire AT? Or the girl? And I chose the girl. So our hike involved stopping at the Virginia/Maryland border and hitch-hiking to my home in NYC, then hiking most of Connecticut and northward. So we skipped Penn., Md., NJ and NY. and ultimately ended at Mt Washington, NH because we caught the flu. Altogether, I did about 1300 miles that summer.. A year later I traveled to Maine with a friend and we climbed Mt. Kathadin.

So, you did some sections of the AT I've never seen. I hear Pennsylvania is very rocky! Would love to compare notes with you some time.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
Gandler
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May 26th, 2024 at 2:08:26 PM permalink
My answer is that of being a man. But, regardless the answer is man. Anyone who wants to meet a bear in the woods is insane.

First, a random bear is far more likely to want to kill you than a random man. Yes, men kill more people, but that is because of urban centers and social disputes, not hiking trails. If you are going to pick a random bear or a random man in the woods, a bear would be far more likely to be aggressive (most men doing solo hikes are not aggressive, let alone homicidal.....) Also, you can't reason with or socially manipulate a bear.

Let's assume the worst, that 100% of bears and men you meet on this trail desire to kill you with no holds barred. If you are unarmed you stand no chance against a bear, they can outrun you, they can outfight you, they can outswim you, they can out climb you. There is no escape and no fighting back. A person who is engaging in solo hikes, has at least a level of decent physical fitness, and survival skills. So there is at least a 50% chance they could simply fight off a human attacker, and probably a higher chance that they can escape from them.

If you are armed you can maybe take down some bears, if you know what you are doing and don't freeze up. If you are armed you can take down any man easily (though you probably would not need to when they see a firearm.)

Armed or unarmed I would choose man in either scenario. Most men are not out to kill you. And, even those that are, can be fought off or escaped with a far higher level of success than bears who are out to kill you.

Unarmed, I can outrun most men and I can outfight most men. Even I cannot fight off or outrun the smallest most out of shape bear. This should not even be close. (This is again assuming that 100% of interactions are with entities who want to kill you, which is not the case.)
Wizard
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May 26th, 2024 at 9:50:39 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

So, you did some sections of the AT I've never seen. I hear Pennsylvania is very rocky! Would love to compare notes with you some time.
link to original post



Yes, I would love to share AT stories in person sometime. When is your next Vegas visit?

I've heard PA is the worst part of the AT. Southern PA isn't bad, which is all I can speak to.
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EvenBob
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May 26th, 2024 at 10:49:21 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Quote: gordonm888

So, you did some sections of the AT I've never seen. I hear Pennsylvania is very rocky! Would love to compare notes with you some time.
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Yes, I would love to share AT stories in person sometime. When is your next Vegas visit?

I've heard PA is the worst part of the AT. Southern PA isn't bad, which is all I can speak to.
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I've seen scores of AT hiking videos, I watch them every summer. Nobody likes Pennsylvania because it's nothing but rocks. An entertaining book about hiking the Appalachian Trail is called A Walk in the Woods by famous author Bill Bryson. They made a movie about it several years ago but it's not very good, the book is much better. I'm watching two Appalachian Trail hiking videos right now they just got started a month ago. I also watch videos from the Continental Divide Trail and the Pacific Crest Trail. Have for years.
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Dieter
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Dieter
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May 27th, 2024 at 2:48:37 AM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

If you're going to qualify the bears into different types, why not the men.... LOL...
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That would seem just a wee bit racist?

If all the men were no more concerning than "sassy gay friend", however...
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rxwine
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May 27th, 2024 at 10:13:08 AM permalink
I think the case changes for meeting a man over bear, if the scenario is changed a little bit. ďWho do you want to be locked in a box with, a random bear, or a random man?Ē
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