James Holzhauer on Jeopardy
James was just in a class of his own.
He combined it all to create a perfect storm of play and wagering.
He's going to "lose" around 50% of his win to Uncle Sam.
Federal tax rate...what 36%?
California state taxes 13%.
$2.4....becomes $1.2 mil.
Quote: TDVegasEmma is a strong player. She has a chance at a little run, IMO.
James was just in a class of his own.
He combined it all to create a perfect storm of play and wagering.
He's going to "lose" around 50% of his win to Uncle Sam.
Federal tax rate...what 36%?
California state taxes 13%.
$2.4....becomes $1.2 mil.
Since he is a professional gambler I wonder if he can deduct travel expenses etc... does his being on the show count as gambling income?
Quote: HunterhillSince he is a professional gambler I wonder if he can deduct travel expenses etc... does his being on the show count as gambling income?
I believe it does. I would assume his status as a professional gambler would qualify....but that begs the question IF he has filed taxes as a professional gambler. Someone stating they gamble as a pro doesn’t necessarily mean they list themselves as a professional gambler on their taxes.
It’s an interesting question as it may save him some money.
I kind of questioned from the very beginning why a professional sports bettor would “out” himself to every Las Vegas sports book by announcing on national TV he earns his living off their backs.
Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.
Quote: TDVegasI believe it does. I would assume his status as a professional gambler would qualify....but that begs the question IF he has filed taxes as a professional gambler. Someone stating they gamble as a pro doesn’t necessarily mean they list themselves as a professional gambler on their taxes.
It’s an interesting question as it may save him some money.
I kind of questioned from the very beginning why a professional sports bettor would “out” himself to every Las Vegas sports book by announcing on national TV he earns his living off their backs.
Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.
Doesnt really matter in a sports wagering setting IMO. As the payouts should be set according to the pool of bets. I mean at the surface a sportsbook is based on taking $220 in bets to pay out $210. Do they really care about who wins or loses provided there is coverage on both sides of the outcome?
I'm not a tax professional, but surely money won on a game show is reported as ordinary income with a 1099-MISC. My question is, since the vast majority of his 2019 income will have come from his Jeopardy! winnings, can he even file as a professional gambler this year?Quote: HunterhillSince he is a professional gambler I wonder if he can deduct travel expenses etc... does his being on the show count as gambling income?
Quote: Gabes22Doesnt really matter in a sports wagering setting IMO. As the payouts should be set according to the pool of bets. I mean at the surface a sportsbook is based on taking $220 in bets to pay out $210. Do they really care about who wins or loses provided there is coverage on both sides of the outcome?
There isn’t always coverage on both sides.
I would assume, like any advantage gambler, a casino is going to frown on anyone beating them in a consistent way.
A casino would never take a position of allowing someone to “beat the odds” thru advantage play simply because they can make up the difference with all those who aren’t beating the odds.
I see no upside whatsoever to announce to a casino “I derive my income from you”.
Quote: JoemanI'm not a tax professional, but surely money won on a game show is reported as ordinary income with a 1099-MISC. My question is, since the vast majority of his 2019 income will have come from his Jeopardy! winnings, can he even file as a professional gambler this year?
If you are filing as a professional gambler....it does include winnings thru game shows.
But it still seems to be taxed at 36% based on his amount.
If he’s actually a professional sports bettor and has filed his previous taxes as such, I see no reason why he can’t file under those terms.
Can he decide to file as a professional gambler AFTER his big win? I doubt that would pass muster with the IRS.
Quote: TDVegasIf you are filing as a professional gambler....it does include winnings thru game shows.
But it still seems to be taxed at 36% based on his amount.
If he’s actually a professional sports bettor and has filed his previous taxes as such, I see no reason why he can’t file under those terms.
Can he decide to file as a professional gambler AFTER his big win? I doubt that would pass muster with the IRS.
This is his 3rd gameshow so he may have been foling previously as a pro gambler.
He has experience with taxed income from game show wins
I guess some enjoy supporting illegals, junkies and other homeless trash collecting benefits off their hard work. Seems like Slab City is taking over the state.
Sad an incredible accomplishment like James did is punished by these tax rates.
Luckily we still have Nevada close by, until the liberals find a way to ruin it.
Quote: TDVegasCalifornia state taxes 13%.
He lives in Nevada, which has no state income tax. Correct me if I'm wrong, but income counts where the the earner lives, not where the work was done.
Quote: WizardHe lives in Nevada, which has no state income tax. Correct me if I'm wrong, but income counts where the the earner lives, not where the work was done.
It depends on the state. Some states require you to pay the tax there.
Quote: WizardHe lives in Nevada, which has no state income tax. Correct me if I'm wrong, but income counts where the the earner lives, not where the work was done.
I lived in Wash state, worked in Oregon at PDX. Had to pay OR 9% state tax every year. Was annoyed.
A couple guys who worked the approach control there filed for 50% rebate, because 1/2 their work was the airspace over Washington State. (Airspace centers there on the airport, which is on the Columbia River, the state boundary.) All that got them was a lifetime of state audits. Lol...
Idk how CA does it. I hope someday I have a reason to care.
Quote: WizardHe lives in Nevada, which has no state income tax. Correct me if I'm wrong, but income counts where the the earner lives, not where the work was done.
Some of the high tax states notably CA or NY charge you State Income tax for income you make in that state. Pro athletes have to file multiple state returns because of this. For instance, if you play for the Chicago Cubs and make a road trip to New York to play the Mets for 3 games, you are required to count your income for those 3 games in New York State and are required to pay state income tax on those 3 games income
Quote: beachbumbabsI lived in Wash state, worked in Oregon at PDX. Had to pay OR 9% state tax every year. Was annoyed.
A couple guys who worked the approach control there filed for 50% rebate, because 1/2 their work was the airspace over Washington State. (Airspace centers there on the airport, which is on the Columbia River, the state boundary.) All that got them was a lifetime of state audits. Lol...
Idk how CA does it. I hope someday I have a reason to care.
Lost me at the “reason to care”. Great place to visit, horrible place to live from a tax basis. I love visiting Northern California above San Fran once you leave Marin. And I love Marin but damn it’s outrageous to even spend to a night.
Currently working on buying a home in Lake Tahoe. Obviously limited to choices on the Nevada side. Prices are slightly higher but when you consider the taxes overall, if I live 18 days, I’m ahead of the game.
Quote: darkozThis is his 3rd gameshow so he may have been foling previously as a pro gambler.
He has experience with taxed income from game show wins
Right. And since he has no regular job to list on his tax return....what's the harm in always filing as a pro gambler?
At worse, I would think, it could only benefit him.
Quote: WizardHe lives in Nevada, which has no state income tax. Correct me if I'm wrong, but income counts where the the earner lives, not where the work was done.
Yes I was going to say, it could end up being a bit of a California v. Texas issue (which ended up back and forth with the U.S. Supreme Court no less than three times), as to whether Howard Hughes was domiciled in California or Texas....
James won the money in CA but is domiciled in NV. Did he "work" in CA to earn the money? or did he merely happen to be here when he "won" it? Because if he did work in CA, and he passes the threshold (I am sure he did at least pass the threshold), he would be taxed as a nonresident in CA.
I guess someone who has hit a jackpot in a state that has income tax and is not the state where he is domiciled could begin to answer this question...but it may not be so easy, as pulling a slot handle and hitting a jackpot might not be considered the same as appearing on a game show for days in a row.
Someone mentioned professional athletes on the road...not necessarily the same thing. Those athletes get W-2s which makes it obvious that they are workers. However I don't see how an athlete on the road who is getting paid solely by his franchise, with that franchise being located in his home state, would have to file multiple tax returns any more than a businessman who goes all over the country representing his firm and gets paid only by his one firm. Whoever posted that could come back with clarification.
But anyway as far as James - he will receive the funds from a CA entity I assume, Jeopardy I assume is a CA entity, so with him, I believe it will come down to whether what he did is considered work he performed in CA. He will get a 1099 I assume though, not a W-2, so it's not exactly a slam dunk as to whether he will be CA taxed.
I know the state of CA does not tax lotto winnings directly, but if your winnings end up getting your income over a certain threshold, you must pay income tax on that anyway.
https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/jeopardy-james-will-likely-have-pay-1-2m-taxes-n1013566
'Jeopardy James' will likely have to pay $1.2M in taxes
Even though Holzhauer is a resident of Nevada, the game show took place in California, which means he must pay taxes in that state, leaving him with just $1.29 million.
but this article merely states that yes, he will have to pay CA tax...doesn't explain exactly why. I'd be more interested in the exact why, although the answer is probably in what I just posted...that he is a nonresident performing work in the state of CA, was paid by a CA entity, and received income above a certain threshold.
Lot of chedda.
I know Wheel of Fortune travels to other states sometimes to tape episodes. I wonder how they work that out. Taxed in the state you're in? They did tape in Las Vegas not long ago.
I would assume a Nevada resident buying a lottery ticket in CA would have the same problem. Pay 13%.
But in any case yes, James is going to net "only" about $1.2M it seems. No wonder most professional gamblers go broke. "Ha."
Quote: MDawgNo, as I posted above, the state of CA does not tax lotto winnings directly, but if your winnings end up getting your income over a certain threshold, you must pay income tax on that anyway.
But in any case yes, James is going to net "only" about $1.2M it seems. No wonder most professional gamblers go broke. "Ha."
Worthless post, with all due respect. He earned that money and what he nets has zero impact on the discussion.
The fact that he only has 1.2M after taxes makes him an unlikely victim but he still is.
Not sure how anyone justifies taking this much of earned money from someone.
It’s why America has such a dependence problem.
Common sense would respect James.
Frankly, it all reeks of a money grab on big paydays or income....and then hits every worker.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2009-apr-12-sp-jock-tax12-story,amp.html
Quote: Gabes22Some of the high tax states notably CA or NY charge you State Income tax for income you make in that state. Pro athletes have to file multiple state returns because of this. For instance, if you play for the Chicago Cubs and make a road trip to New York to play the Mets for 3 games, you are required to count your income for those 3 games in New York State and are required to pay state income tax on those 3 games income
I did not know this, thank you.
Quote: BozWorthless post, with all due respect. He earned that money and what he nets has zero impact on the discussion.
The fact that he only has 1.2M after taxes makes him an unlikely victim but he still is.
Not sure how anyone justifies taking this much of earned money from someone.
It’s why America has such a dependence problem.
Well I guess next time we'll just have to ask for your permission to discuss something that has been brought up, which was: whether or not James has been CA taxed on his winnings, just to make sure that you deem it worthy of discussion.
You refer to the U.S. as "America," plus you seem to think that our tax rates are very high, so either you're 300 years old, which is unlikely, or you're a foreigner. Yes, the U.S. has its problems, but show me someplace better. Yes we have taxes, but at least in the history of this country I don't believe that we've had 90% taxes either, such as what drove the Beatles "one for you, nineteen for me" and Rolling Stones into tax exile. Personally I don't have a problem with the tax rates in the U.S., they're not excessive by any means.
This shows who will win under any set of wagers by James and Emma. It is classical tournament strategy that James needs to swing Emma to win. Both are basically in a situation of either wagering high or low.
If Emma wagers at least $20,201 then she locks in a win if correct.
If Emma wagers low then she will win if either (a) James wagers low or (b) James wagers high and is wrong.
If James wagers high then he wins if (a) Emma goes high, Emma is wrong, and James is right, or (b) Emma goes low and James is right.
If James wagers low then he wins if Emma goes high and is wrong.
If perfect logicians were playing, both would randomize their decisions. However, rarely does the leader go low in these situations where he/she can be caught. If James anticipates Emma to go high, then he absolutely should go low. This way he doesn't have to get Final Jeopardy right to win, he just has to hope Emma blows it.
James actual bid was the correct amount to cover Jay (2*jay + 1 - james), where
jay = Jay's score ($11,000) and
james = James' score ($23,400)
If correct, James would get an extra $1,000 for coming in second, compared to third, which he did.
Quote: Gabes22Some of the high tax states notably CA or NY charge you State Income tax for income you make in that state. Pro athletes have to file multiple state returns because of this. For instance, if you play for the Chicago Cubs and make a road trip to New York to play the Mets for 3 games, you are required to count your income for those 3 games in New York State and are required to pay state income tax on those 3 games income
This applies to consultants too.... trust me I know.
Quote: MDawgWell I guess next time we'll just have to ask for your permission to discuss something that has been brought up, which was: whether or not James has been CA taxed on his winnings, just to make sure that you deem it worthy of discussion.
You refer to the U.S. as "America," plus you seem to think that our tax rates are very high, so either you're 300 years old, which is unlikely, or you're a foreigner. Yes, the U.S. has its problems, but show me someplace better. Yes we have taxes, but at least in the history of this country I don't believe that we've had 90% taxes either, such as what drove the Beatles "one for you, nineteen for me" and Rolling Stones into tax exile. Personally I don't have a problem with the tax rates in the U.S., they're not excessive by any means.
So you are either a liberal who feels progressive tax rates are ok and don’t punish success, are a guilty rich American, or are a lower income Republican.
PS, F the Beatles, the Stones and the English. With friends like them......
"Jeopardy" originally had open buzzers, but the result was serious problems. The J!Buzz page explains how the system works now and even shows the indicator lights to signal that buzzers are armed. It is the most fair solution while also reducing people mashing button after first word and ending up with scores of negative $23,400.Quote: WatchMeWinI just read an article where James said that Emma just kept beating him to the Buzzer. This is what I was saying in my prior post. It was all about the buzzer timing. There needs to be a better way.
We associate Jeopardy contestants with people having Superior knowledge and knowing everything. The fact that the buzzer timing is more of a factor is flawed.
This is also the problem for a potential London NFL club. Games played in London subject players to UK taxes. Not bad when they are there for 5 days, but playing the entire season would result in majority of player salary taxable in the UK.Quote: TDVegasArticle on pro athletes having to file taxes for multiple states. Article is 10 years old but likely still applies.
Frankly, it all reeks of a money grab on big paydays or income....and then hits every worker.
I make $1500 working for a dirt track in Vermont during the summer....and I owed $6. Luckily my NY refund covers it. ;-)
Your wife gets a refund because her withholding is too high.Quote: SkittleCar1My wife and I live in NY. Her sole income is from her job in Vermont. She has to file in Vermont, but also NY. She still, and I have no clue how, gets about a $300 refund from NY every year.
I make $1500 working for a dirt track in Vermont during the summer....and I owed $6. Luckily my NY refund covers it. ;-)
It would seem CA has laws similar to OR. Anyone who lives in CA pays CA taxes regardless of where they earn them, at least in the US. Anyone who earns money from a CA company pays CA taxes on those earnings regardless of domicile.
FWIW, Sony Corp of A is headquartered on 5th Ave. in Manhattan.
Quote: WizardOkay, I hope you guys are happy, this graph took quite a while to do:
This shows who will win under any set of wagers by James and Emma. It is classical tournament strategy that James needs to swing Emma to win. Both are basically in a situation of either wagering high or low.
If Emma wagers at least $20,201 then she locks in a win if correct.
If Emma wagers low then she will win if either (a) James wagers low or (b) James wagers high and is wrong.
If James wagers high then he wins if (a) Emma goes high, Emma is wrong, and James is right, or (b) Emma goes low and James is right.
If James wagers low then he wins if Emma goes high and is wrong.
If perfect logicians were playing, both would randomize their decisions. However, rarely does the leader go low in these situations where he/she can be caught. If James anticipates Emma to go high, then he absolutely should go low. This way he doesn't have to get Final Jeopardy right to win, he just has to hope Emma blows it.
James actual bid was the correct amount to cover Jay (2*jay + 1 - james), where
jay = Jay's score ($11,000) and
james = James' score ($23,400)
If correct, James would get an extra $1,000 for coming in second, compared to third, which he did.
I’d also like to know how often the first place person going into Final Jeopardy has gotten the answer correct but still lost the game.
Quote: michael99000I wonder how many times in the history of the show, the first place person going into Final Jeopardy had more than double the amount of the second place person, and still lost. Maybe it’s never occurred.
I’d also like to know how often the first place person going into Final Jeopardy has gotten the answer correct but still lost the game.
The first scenario...I would recommend a lobotomy afterwards. Not sure if it’s ever happened.
I’m pretty sure the 2nd scenario has happened.
Quote: TDVegasThe first scenario...I would recommend a lobotomy afterwards. Not sure if it’s ever happened.
That's called "Pulling a Calvin".
https://youtu.be/botdmsQilnU
Quote: AyecarumbaYour wife gets a refund because her withholding is too high.
That I understand. But $0 is withheld in NY. It is withheld in Vermont. She gets a Vermont refund, AND a NY refund.
The reciprocal agreement between the three entities--DC, Maryland, Va--is a help to people who live in one area and work in another, but not so much when there is a dispute like that one, since the contention was that income was earned in more than one state/District.
https://www.tax.virginia.gov/reciprocity
Quote: MDawgWell I guess next time we'll just have to ask for your permission to discuss something that has been brought up, which was: whether or not James has been CA taxed on his winnings, just to make sure that you deem it worthy of discussion.
You refer to the U.S. as "America," plus you seem to think that our tax rates are very high, so either you're 300 years old, which is unlikely, or you're a foreigner. Yes, the U.S. has its problems, but show me someplace better. Yes we have taxes, but at least in the history of this country I don't believe that we've had 90% taxes either, such as what drove the Beatles "one for you, nineteen for me" and Rolling Stones into tax exile. Personally I don't have a problem with the tax rates in the U.S., they're not excessive by any means.
Ignore, I misread the quote lol.
Quote: WizardOkay, I hope you guys are happy, this graph took quite a while to do:
This shows who will win under any set of wagers by James and Emma. It is classical tournament strategy that James needs to swing Emma to win. Both are basically in a situation of either wagering high or low.
If Emma wagers at least $20,201 then she locks in a win if correct.
If Emma wagers low then she will win if either (a) James wagers low or (b) James wagers high and is wrong.
If James wagers high then he wins if (a) Emma goes high, Emma is wrong, and James is right, or (b) Emma goes low and James is right.
If James wagers low then he wins if Emma goes high and is wrong.
If perfect logicians were playing, both would randomize their decisions. However, rarely does the leader go low in these situations where he/she can be caught. If James anticipates Emma to go high, then he absolutely should go low. This way he doesn't have to get Final Jeopardy right to win, he just has to hope Emma blows it.
James actual bid was the correct amount to cover Jay (2*jay + 1 - james), where
jay = Jay's score ($11,000) and
james = James' score ($23,400)
If correct, James would get an extra $1,000 for coming in second, compared to third, which he did.
Your graph is correct. But only tells a minute part of the story. If I'm on the show and Final Jeopardy is "Kings of England" I'm betting zero or nearly zero no matter what the scores are. If it is "Craps odds" I'm betting it all no matter what the scores are. Let's say, Mr Wiz, that you have $50k, second place $24k...... You aren't taking a bet for $50k that you will be able to get the question on "Craps odds"? For the English Lit librarian Shakespeare might be analogous to craps odds.
Since most contestants wont go on a run like James, maximizing your possible ONE win likely is +EV.
Quote: WizardI did not know this, thank you.
To further complicate things, if you keep a year round residence in NY, even though your main residence is in California, both states want to a tax all of your earnings.
Derek Jeter got raked over the coals on this. A former Michigan resident who built and lived off-season in the largest private house in Florida was considered a full time NY resident who owed millions in back taxes on money earned any and everywhere. Jeter made more off the field than on it, but NY successfully argued that it all stemmed from his NY based job.
In the above example, not only does he pay NY State taxes, but NY City taxes as well.
Quote: SOOPOO
Your graph is correct. But only tells a minute part of the story. If I'm on the show and Final Jeopardy is "Kings of England" I'm betting zero or nearly zero no matter what the scores are. If it is "Craps odds" I'm betting it all no matter what the scores are. Let's say, Mr Wiz, that you have $50k, second place $24k...... You aren't taking a bet for $50k that you will be able to get the question on "Craps odds"? For the English Lit librarian Shakespeare might be analogous to craps odds.
Since most contestants wont go on a run like James, maximizing your possible ONE win likely is +EV.
Yes this is what I mentioned too.
Quote: MDawgAddressing just this one bit of probability data:
Does it matter that James was a bit weak in history questions, had missed a fair amount of history related questions (when considered among the questions that he did miss, I mean) during his reign as Jeopardy champion, and specifically had blown a prior Final Jeopardy question on Shakespeare?
Final Jeopardy:
Don't be afraid of the dark: Shakespeare's Portia says, "How far that little" this "throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world"
Holzhauer's incorrect guess: Sun
Correct Answer: Candle
This is a quote from "The Merchant of Venice," and is meant to be a metaphor for hope in a world of darkness.
i.e. that he knew or should have known that Shakespeare was not his strength, and that his opponent, being a college librarian, would likely have a better shot at getting this answer right.
25 June 2019
James Holzhauer was off to a great start in his first event at the World Series of Poker but was eliminated just short of cashing in the $1,500 Super Turbo Bounty No-Limit Hold'em one-day tournament.
Quote: GWAEJames plays against Emma again tonight
I missed game 1, but not surprised by the current score. I need to set to record game 2 now.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7o0l02 .
Is it just me or does anyone else find Emma extremely attractive?
Quote: WizardThose were some tough questions. Good show, but I felt like quite the doofus with how few I knew. I liked the Final Jeopardy clue. My answer of Lamentations was clearly wrong.
Is it just me or does anyone else find Emma extremely attractive?
No. No one else.
Quote: WizardThose were some tough questions. Good show, but I felt like quite the doofus with how few I knew. I liked the Final Jeopardy clue. My answer of Lamentations was clearly wrong.
Is it just me or does anyone else find Emma extremely attractive?
If you enjoy quiet, smart women, absolutely. You're not alone in this, I'm sure.
She's a very nice person, in person. Not smug or arrogant. But quite confident in her own intellect. I think she does a good job of demonstrating that she belongs there, and has earned her way into the final. (She's in a couple groups with me, and several friends in common who I have met, but I haven't met her. Not wanting to overstate our friendship.)
You also have to consider that, in the first half, James found all 3 of the Daily Doubles. Without getting any of those opportunities, she still earned over $26000 so far. Me, in a similar situation with a superchamp, I made only 16k. (Yes, less $1...yeesh!) So, without the luck factor of finding the 3 DD, and knowing she tried to answer many questions but got outbuzzed, she has to be one of the best ever on there.
$20,412 of James' first day total was DD in the 2nd round. After he missed the first one in round 1, all 3 had $0, so i think it's fair to look at the game from there and discount the first one (though no idea whether Emma could have answered it, but she didn't find it or any, so a moot point). Those 3 clues, I think, were worth $5400 if not DD. So net gain of $15012 advantage from the DD's.
This is what they each actually earned, without regard to the values of the DD, before Final Jeopardy. (As if clues were all face value):
Francois: 7800
James: 22400
Emma: 13200
The total of that is 43,400, out of 45,000 possible, with all 60 clues exposed. So James is, if nothing else, best on the buzzer. But that's a 96% get rate, which imo is phenomenal, considering the difficulty of the material.
Credit to all 3. What an excellent game, when it comes down simply to buzzer skill and luck (which it has).
