Cooperation game
Poll
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50 members have voted
I do think it will be next to impossible to get all 40 people to do what's needed to get maximum value. However I think we will have enough cooperation to get the cash. My concern is there's always a few bad apple's who just like to be difficult and muck stuff up, kinda like forever trolls.Quote: DocI suspect that the"long shot" would be Romes getting the entire group of 40 to agree to wager together on anything, particularly if it involved hookers and blow.
I joined when this was still called Game Theory, not Cooperation, so I'm playing under the spirit of the original title.
Quote: AxelWolfI do think it will be next to impossible to get all 40 people to do what's needed to get maximum value. However I think we will have enough cooperation to get the cash. My concern is there's always a few bad apple's who just like to be difficult and muck stuff up, kinda like forever trolls.
I'm down to co-op
I think we should set it up so it leaves some buffer for the liars and cheats among us. It won't be maximum EV, but it could be better than 0.
Quote: AxelWolfI do think it will be next to impossible to get all 40 people to do what's needed to get maximum value. However I think we will have enough cooperation to get the cash. My concern is there's always a few bad apple's who just like to be difficult and muck stuff up, kinda like forever trolls.
I'll put it on record that for the first round, I'm going to be mischievous and not conspire. My bid will be what I judge to offer me the max advantage. That's not to say what that bid will be.
Later, I May choose to collude, at which time I will conspire to max my ev. I've seen golden balls ( UK version) and it always amuses me how players shoot themselves in the foot by trying to steal. That's all I'll say for now, Draw your own conclusions.
So, Mike, how are the multiple rounds going top work? is each to be paid out in isolation, possibly at the end of x rounds? Are we trying to see how our ongoing cooperation tends to increase or decrease overall ev?
Or are you trying to do a character assessment on your members $:o)
http://www.wideawakeinwonderland.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/616_1367723175.jpgQuote: OnceDearI'll put it on record that for the first round, I'm going to be mischievous and not conspire. My bid will be what I judge to offer me the max advantage. That's not to say what that bid will be.
Later, I May choose to collude, at which time I will conspire to max my ev. I've seen golden balls ( UK version) and it always amuses me how players shoot themselves in the foot by trying to steal. That's all I'll say for now, Draw your own conclusions.
So, Mike, how are the multiple rounds going top work? is each to be paid out in isolation, possibly at the end of x rounds? Are we trying to see how our ongoing cooperation tends to increase or decrease overall ev?
Or are you trying to do a character assessment on your members $:o)
Quote: RSAre people allowed to lie? Any repercussions for liars?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVNgjYoQWpo
Quote: RSAre people allowed to lie? Any repercussions for liars?
I'm sure lying will be just as encouraged as collusion.
Quote: RSAre people allowed to lie? Any repercussions for liars?
Yes, lying is allowed. I don't see how anybody could be proven to be a liar because individual picks will be strictly confidential.
I doubt it. First Canyonero has already said he is $2. GWAE says $2, and there are more. If you assume most people will say $2, the right move is to go with $1. If you assume most will say $1, you should say $2. However, if you assume some people will always say $2, you should always say $2 to punish them. I think there needs to be a bullet that comes with only one $1 bid, so the parasites can be gotten rid of. Then you eliminate those who you think are going to always help themselves at the expense of others.Quote: PeeMcGeeI’ll play.
And I'm fairly confident we can get maximum EV on this guys :)
I think that is why no 'organizer' has PM'd me with a plan, and why I am not motivated to do such either.
Instead of paying someone to not pick $2, or believe that people are going to live in a cave and not see any discussion until the event is over, have enough people threaten to or actually pick $2 so no one gets anything.
So, instead of "pay me not to pick $2" it becomes "you get nothing if you pick $2" (yes, no one else gets anything either)
Unless we do what Romes said and go for a decent long shot. Winning money ia more fun than a game.
I would consider Romes the current "organizer." Romes, can we get an update on who has pledged what? Or if you aren't the one in charge, who do you think is or should be?
Romes
Mrsuit31
Blount2000
joeman
MathExtremist
doughtaker
miplet
Axelwolf
Mrgoldensun, was that you saying in?
Also, We will have to plan for the non team members and some room for error. That was already in the plan... Realistically, we don't even have to PM for the plan. Simply posting it here once the list is put together will be enough. We will know how many $2 non team people there are and simply need to tailor our strategy with that in mind. It's very simple if everyone does what they are supposed to.
https://imgur.com/JWByQdu
Quote: WizardofnothingIn honor of pai gow Dan I think we should take the winnings and put it on the queen high side bet like this ...
https://imgur.com/JWByQdu
Assuming thats an in for you then?
Quote: bigfoot66I will collude
List so far:
Romes
Mrsuit31
Blount2000
joeman
MathExtremist
doughtaker
miplet
Axelwolf
bigfoot66
gamerfreak
non team members:
soopoo
oncedear (for now)
tomG
Gwae
Ayecarumba, beachbumbabs, beerseason, Boz, Canyonero, Dalex64, DJTeddyBear, Doc HeyMrDJ, Hunterhill, jml24, Joeshlabotnik, odiousgambit, onenickelmiracle, Paigowdan, Paradigm, PeeMcGee, RonC, RS, rudeboyoi, theoriemeister, Torghatten, TwoFeathersATL, Wizardofnothing, wudged?
You're $2 every time, we're not stupid.Quote: GWAEI think non collusion is more fun. It's a game after all.
Unless we do what Romes said and go for a decent long shot. Winning money ia more fun than a game.
+1Quote: onenickelmiracleI doubt it. First Canyonero has already said he is $2. GWAE says $2, and there are more. If you assume most people will say $2, the right move is to go with $1. If you assume most will say $1, you should say $2. However, if you assume some people will always say $2, you should always say $2 to punish them. I think there needs to be a bullet that comes with only one $1 bid, so the parasites can be gotten rid of. Then you eliminate those who you think are going to always help themselves at the expense of others.
+1Quote: onenickelmiracleI doubt it. First Canyonero has already said he is $2. GWAE says $2, and there are more. If you assume most people will say $2, the right move is to go with $1. If you assume most will say $1, you should say $2. However, if you assume some people will always say $2, you should always say $2 to punish them. I think there needs to be a bullet that comes with only one $1 bid, so the parasites can be gotten rid of. Then you eliminate those who you think are going to always help themselves at the expense of others.
Romes
Mrsuit31
Blount2000
joeman
MathExtremist
doughtaker
miplet
Axelwolf
bigfoot66
gamerfreak
non team members:
soopoo
oncedear (for now)
tomG
Gwae
BBB
Canyonero
That's almost half....
I have to admit that was my thinking. those $2 bills are worth $2 PLUS quirkiness.. i like quirkiness.Quote: SOOPOOI want $2 bill from Mike. I will select $2. I either get the $2 bill or nothing. I do not want a $1 bill.
But...... This is a fun exercise. Think I'll be going with $1 on the basis that cheating and lying has been encouraged to the extent that we'll get a surplus of $2 bidders.
Yeah. $1 this time from me. Scout's honour $:o)
Quote: AxelWolfhttp://www.wideawakeinwonderland.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/616_1367723175.jpg
$;o)
Thanks for that.
This could end up being one of the most destructive and divisive threads ever. Even being truthful won't offer any safety, because we will never KNOW who amongst us are the rats. There are sure to be some.
I still haven't heard enough to convince me just how the collusion/cooperation will work out. If I go my own route, I anticipate making a mix of $1 and $2 bids, if the game continues. The first round is the only one that requires me to make an arbitrary choice, with everything after that following the "strategy."Quote: DocWell, I have a first bid in mind, based on my previously-mentioned personal strategy, but I'll hold off on submitting anything by PM to see what happens with efforts toward collusion.
Or I could fall in line with the crowd. If not, I doubt my bid will -- in net -- hurt a cooperating group of others, and it could help them.
Quote: WizardYes, lying is allowed. I don't see how anybody could be proven to be a liar because individual picks will be strictly confidential.
Do we have an exemption in this thread for divulging PM's and emails related to collusion? I think we should, coupled, of course with exemption for mischievous lying.
.
Is it worth losing $21 to keep 19 "Team Me" players from getting $2?
Quote: AyecarumbaWith so many "unknowns", perhaps "Team Max Value" should lower the expected value of the shared win from $50+ to a guaranteed $21? After all, a guaranteed $1 each compared to nothing, is more than anyone started with.
Is it worth losing $21 to keep 19 "Team Me" players from getting $2?
Maybe over a few iterations the team work will get so refined that max EV is achieved and trust and good will will prevail.
Will the wheels fall off in round one?
Will there be public discussion about the thought processes and likely bids of non-team players? That Limey Oncedear can be trusted, but would it be better to assume he's lying about that $1 bid.
Nah! I bid $1 this time. Honest guv'nor.
Quote: SOOPOOI want $2 bill from Mike. I will select $2. I either get the $2 bill or nothing. I do not want a $1 bill.
I reserve the right to pay you 200 pennies.
Quote: OnceDearDo we have an exemption in this thread for divulging PM's and emails related to collusion? I think we should, coupled, of course with exemption for mischievous lying.
Not unless the person being quoted consents.
BTW, 9 picks have been submitted thus far.
Quote: gamerfreakAre picks open for submission? I might have missed it but I thought you'd announce the start/end of rounds
Yes, they're open.
Picks are open and 25% +/- have already been declared?Quote: WizardYes, they're open.
Supposedly declared. 'Robbers, bandits, and thieves' comes to mind as a saying. I was waiting upon instructions from my superiors (collusion organizers). I'll wait a bit more. Been busy and really haven't thought this thing thru very well, yet.
Later, 2F
I volunteer to take the lower bid on round one, and on round two, in exchange for being in the upper bid group on round three. Just as an idea. With limited time for collusion, and a general lack of organization thus far, I will plan on taking the $1 this round. I will however wait until much closer to the deadline to PM Wiz in case other strategies are put forth that I can sign on to.
I'm all for the hookers and blow let it ride strategy (as a pool), but Sparkles says I can only take ours in cash ;-)
Quote: onenickelmiracleI doubt it. First Canyonero has already said he is $2. GWAE says $2, and there are more. If you assume most people will say $2, the right move is to go with $1. If you assume most will say $1, you should say $2. However, if you assume some people will always say $2, you should always say $2 to punish them. I think there needs to be a bullet that comes with only one $1 bid, so the parasites can be gotten rid of. Then you eliminate those who you think are going to always help themselves at the expense of others.
Yea, I may have been a tad optimistic. I figured with it being only a dollar difference…it wouldn’t be a big deal. But I guess that is the fun of this study/game.
Anyways, if anyone doing a running tally--I will go $1.
I won’t submit yet…just in case.
But I want to do what is best for the group, and I wouldn’t backstab/lie for a meager dollar.
We could all bid $2 giving him a false sense that he wouldn't ever have to pay and then we maximize EV once it's worthwhile.
It would work and would be easy to do, but we have to get organized... I tried.
That being said I'm going with $1 this round.
We can try again next round to get everyone on board.
$1.
Quote: RomesWe could arrange for 21 people to say $1, then 19 people to say $2... ...THEN we start a pole in another thread about what sporting event / long shot to bet it on... Parlaying our $59 to something like $1k
I think there have been other proposals, making it very confusing, but this one is the one most referenced? the $2 folks should be picked at random out of the excess past 21?[don't PM wizard till you know?]
insisting we parlay to something respectable, even though I almost surely will miss the fun, for this time I will join the $1 colluders. Partiers are obligated to give a full report!
what's the over/under for $1 colluder liars?
