Buzzard
Buzzard
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February 26th, 2014 at 12:15:33 PM permalink
And this from another observer :

The only top-ten all-time rusher who even approaches Brown’s totals, Barry Sanders, posted a career average of 99.8 yards per game and 5.0 yards per carry. However, Barry Sanders’ father, William, was frequently quoted as saying that Jim Brown was “the best I’ve ever seen.”[26]
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
Lemieux66
Lemieux66
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February 26th, 2014 at 12:32:52 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE

Are you in Pittsburgh? If so you should join us at the get together this weekend.



Nah born and raised in NYC. Just a giant Pens fan my whole life.
10 eyes for an eye. 10 teeth for a tooth. 10 bucks for a buck?! Hit the bad guys where it hurts the most: the face and the wallet.
Lemieux66
Lemieux66
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February 26th, 2014 at 12:33:53 PM permalink
Quote: Face

You're right. When all major network announcers, the majority of hockey fans, the NHL themselves, and any random person you ask on the street says there is only one greatest and he is the Great One, there is no debate. Only when a hard core fan comes in with their "but-but-but"s do we have to go through it all again.

Look, to me, Barry Sanders is the greatest runner to ever touch a football. The greatest of all time, bar none, in the history of the universe. There's has been none better before him, after him, and I doubt there ever will be. But he still ranks lower than Payton, Smith, and a handful of other guys. I could argue that he was on the Lions, a horrendous team by any account, and still put up those numbers. I could argue that he quit perfectly healthy after 10th season where he put up the same numbers that he came into the league with (ie stunning), and he was still in his prime. I could argue this, that, and the other thing, but the fact remains; he wasn't the best of all time.

Just like Sanders, Lemieux was undeniably one of the great ones, one of the greatest players who ever lived, whose stats may well stand long after he's dead and gone. Maybe he had more hurdles, both physical and team based. Maybe he had a tougher schedule. Maybe the ice in Pittsburgh was soft and maybe his wife was a nag. But at the end of the day, it's the numbers you put up and your effect on the league which separates the "greats" from the "also rans".

Lemieux was great, a member of a list of greats, an honor by any measure. But there is only one greatest. He is the Great One.



If you only account for pure numbers without situation, it's flawed logic. Bad logic even.
10 eyes for an eye. 10 teeth for a tooth. 10 bucks for a buck?! Hit the bad guys where it hurts the most: the face and the wallet.
RaleighCraps
RaleighCraps
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February 26th, 2014 at 1:18:11 PM permalink
Quote: Lemieux66

If you only account for pure numbers without situation, it's flawed logic. Bad logic even.



Sorry, but I have to disagree with that statement.
You can ONLY judge on what is, not on what might have been. Otherwise, you then need to start bringing in who was more valuable to their team. Mario was injured and missed some prime years. Cold fact was he was getting paid and not producing anything for the team. Wayne went to LA in the end of his career, and was responsible for how many ticket sales? He was way more valuable to the Kings at that point. But this is all a silly argument.

Mario may have been able to put up the top numbers, but bottom line is he is still second in stats.
You can only judge and rank on what is, not on what could have been.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back ! Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
Lemieux66
Lemieux66
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February 26th, 2014 at 1:22:29 PM permalink
Quote: RaleighCraps

Sorry, but I have to disagree with that statement.
You can ONLY judge on what is, not on what might have been. Otherwise, you then need to start bringing in who was more valuable to their team. Mario was injured and missed some prime years. Cold fact was he was getting paid and not producing anything for the team. Wayne went to LA in the end of his career, and was responsible for how many ticket sales? He was way more valuable to the Kings at that point. But this is all a silly argument.
You can only judge and rank on what is, not on what could have been.



Why do ticket sales matter when it comes to who was the better player? And even if I played along, I can point out that LA is a far bigger market than Pittsburgh and LA fans are notoriously bandwagon.
10 eyes for an eye. 10 teeth for a tooth. 10 bucks for a buck?! Hit the bad guys where it hurts the most: the face and the wallet.
Lemieux66
Lemieux66
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February 26th, 2014 at 1:25:41 PM permalink
I'm talking about who is the better hockey player. Wayne Gretzky had more points. If simply having more points, situation be damned, makes him the better player to you then Wayne is better. I have a different criteria.
10 eyes for an eye. 10 teeth for a tooth. 10 bucks for a buck?! Hit the bad guys where it hurts the most: the face and the wallet.
RaleighCraps
RaleighCraps
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February 26th, 2014 at 1:32:55 PM permalink
Quote: Lemieux66

Why do ticket sales matter when it comes to who was the better player? And even if I played along, I can point out that LA is a far bigger market than Pittsburgh and LA fans are notoriously bandwagon.



They matter because I said if we were going to rate on things other than what was, I was adding in who was most valuable to their team. Wayne drove massive ticket sales, which brought in huge revenue to the Kings. I have even seen it argued that Wayne was a major reason why there is hockey in the west and south west (LA and Phoenix). I'm sure ML was responsible for a lot of fannies in Pitt as well, although there have been a lot of strong players along side of Mario, so the tix sales may have been the same either way.

We could go on for days with this discussion. As Face said, I don't need to try and make you change your view, but in the same vein, there is no argument you can produce (unless you come up with one that I haven't yet heard) which is going to change my view.

The FAA air marshal is probably going to bust this hijacking any minute, now that she is online......... ;-)
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back ! Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
Lemieux66
Lemieux66
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February 26th, 2014 at 1:39:30 PM permalink
Quote: RaleighCraps

They matter because I said if we were going to rate on things other than what was, I was adding in who was most valuable to their team. Wayne drove massive ticket sales, which brought in huge revenue to the Kings. I have even seen it argued that Wayne was a major reason why there is hockey in the west and south west (LA and Phoenix). I'm sure ML was responsible for a lot of fannies in Pitt as well, although there have been a lot of strong players along side of Mario, so the tix sales may have been the same either way.

We could go on for days with this discussion. As Face said, I don't need to try and make you change your view, but in the same vein, there is no argument you can produce (unless you come up with one that I haven't yet heard) which is going to change my view.

The FAA air marshal is probably going to bust this hijacking any minute, now that she is online......... ;-)



I don't think there's anything else to bring to bring to the table. I mean, I would take Gretzky on my team if I could lol
10 eyes for an eye. 10 teeth for a tooth. 10 bucks for a buck?! Hit the bad guys where it hurts the most: the face and the wallet.
98Clubs
98Clubs
Joined: Jun 3, 2010
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February 26th, 2014 at 2:01:05 PM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

And this from another observer :

The only top-ten all-time rusher who even approaches Brown’s totals, Barry Sanders, posted a career average of 99.8 yards per game and 5.0 yards per carry. However, Barry Sanders’ father, William, was frequently quoted as saying that Jim Brown was “the best I’ve ever seen.”[26]



Its late in the sidetrack, but I would like to opine that Jim Brown was the best rusher I ever saw. Barry Sanders could just escape like a magician, and Walter Payton stands between them. Sanders retired not wanting to break Sweetness' record, an homage to greatness, I will say this about these three and one O.J. Simpson, the D knows they're getting the ball, nearly every play, and always when it counts.

I would say the same of Lemieux, Gretzky, Howe, and Messier.
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
Lemieux66
Lemieux66
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February 26th, 2014 at 2:10:27 PM permalink
There something, as a Pens fan, that makes me very happy Ovechkin will never be involved in the Greatest Of question.
10 eyes for an eye. 10 teeth for a tooth. 10 bucks for a buck?! Hit the bad guys where it hurts the most: the face and the wallet.

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