Face
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Face
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February 26th, 2014 at 8:33:20 AM permalink
Quote: Lemieux66

I just choose my favorite and the best hockey player of all time.



Hmmm... nothing in the rules about sacrilege. I suppose I'll put this away... for now...




I got my eye on you, friend o.O
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Lemieux66
Lemieux66
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February 26th, 2014 at 8:41:15 AM permalink
Quote: Face

Hmmm... nothing in the rules about sacrilege. I suppose I'll put this away... for now...




I got my eye on you, friend o.O



Who do you think is the best?
10 eyes for an eye. 10 teeth for a tooth. 10 bucks for a buck?! Hit the bad guys where it hurts the most: the face and the wallet.
RaleighCraps
RaleighCraps
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February 26th, 2014 at 9:18:50 AM permalink
Quote: Lemieux66

Quote: Face

Hmmm... nothing in the rules about sacrilege. I suppose I'll put this away... for now...




I got my eye on you, friend o.O



Who do you think is the best?



Well, I think number 99 would have to be the first player to come to mind. What Tiger has done for PGA tour golf, so did Gretzky for modern hockey.

Lemieux was a great player, no argument there. But not great enough to surpass Gretzky.

Like most sports, it is hard to compare greats from different eras. Orr, Hull, Howe, Richard all have impressive resumes.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back ! Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
Face
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Face
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February 26th, 2014 at 9:20:05 AM permalink
Quote: Lemieux66


Who do you think is the best?



To be clear, I wasn't ragging on your opinion. We're all allowed ours here, and he can be your favorite with no issue whatsoever =)

But this site demands facts, and when all of Lemieux's stats include the sentence fragment "...second only to Gretzky", it becomes all but impossible to defend your title of "best". The best isn't compared to anyone, he is the one being compared to.

Howe vs Gretzky, now that's a good discussion as they were two vastly different players playing in two vastly different leagues. One has room to argue what stats mattered and what kind of hockey player was best for its time. But Mario and Wayne were the same type of player playing at the same time. And only one of them had their number retired throughout the entire league. Only one of them required the very rules to be changed to counteract his dominance. Only one is referred to as "The Great One".

Gretzky > Lemieux, and it's not even close.

P.S. - In case your newness to the forum leaves you wondering, this is all in jest. I'm just messing with you ;)

P.P.S. - My favorite players include Roy, Housley, Roenick, just about any recognizable name from the 90s. Favorite of all time goes to Tie Domi. So what do I know? ;)
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Calder
Calder
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February 26th, 2014 at 9:24:25 AM permalink
Quote: Lemieux66

I just choose my favorite and the best hockey player of all time.



Then shouldn't your name be Orr4?
98Clubs
98Clubs
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February 26th, 2014 at 11:02:21 AM permalink
Quote: Lemieux66

I just choose my favorite and the best hockey player of all time.



For me it would be #9 mr. Hockey. Got to see him in the WHA and in his final season with the Hartford ne New England Whalers. A lotta young bucks back then crunchin him, and still played well... at age 50 !, and with his kids Mark and Marty. And in the FWIW dept. My Whalers Captain's Cup... Joel Quennevillle, Ron Francis, Dave Tippett. This is Hartford Whaler Hockey, where dad and the kids watch a hockey game, and mom goes shopping in the mall. Gotta love it.
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
Lemieux66
Lemieux66
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February 26th, 2014 at 11:08:35 AM permalink
Quote: Face

To be clear, I wasn't ragging on your opinion. We're all allowed ours here, and he can be your favorite with no issue whatsoever =)

But this site demands facts, and when all of Lemieux's stats include the sentence fragment "...second only to Gretzky", it becomes all but impossible to defend your title of "best". The best isn't compared to anyone, he is the one being compared to.

Howe vs Gretzky, now that's a good discussion as they were two vastly different players playing in two vastly different leagues. One has room to argue what stats mattered and what kind of hockey player was best for its time. But Mario and Wayne were the same type of player playing at the same time. And only one of them had their number retired throughout the entire league. Only one of them required the very rules to be changed to counteract his dominance. Only one is referred to as "The Great One".

Gretzky > Lemieux, and it's not even close.

P.S. - In case your newness to the forum leaves you wondering, this is all in jest. I'm just messing with you ;)

P.P.S. - My favorite players include Roy, Housley, Roenick, just about any recognizable name from the 90s. Favorite of all time goes to Tie Domi. So what do I know? ;)



A lot of people make this mistake. They only compare numbers and completely leave out situation.

Mario Lemieux: GP: 915 Goals: 690 Assists: 1033 PPG: 1.89. In the seasons that he played, he missed 496 games as well as three full seasons in between.

http://m.hkref.com/m?p=XXplayersXXlXXlemiema01.html&t=0

Wayne Gretzky: GP: 1487 Goals: 894 Assists: 1963 PPG: 1.92. In the seasons that Wayne played, he missed 178 games. Not only that, but Gretzky also had much better teams over all and that Wayne being healthy and Mario being healthy were different deals. Mario needed guys to tie his skates at times. So if you take all this data, it's really clear that Mario was better. I mean there shouldn't be a debate.
10 eyes for an eye. 10 teeth for a tooth. 10 bucks for a buck?! Hit the bad guys where it hurts the most: the face and the wallet.
Face
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Face
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February 26th, 2014 at 11:39:48 AM permalink
Quote: Lemieux66

I mean there shouldn't be a debate.



You're right. When all major network announcers, the majority of hockey fans, the NHL themselves, and any random person you ask on the street says there is only one greatest and he is the Great One, there is no debate. Only when a hard core fan comes in with their "but-but-but"s do we have to go through it all again.

Look, to me, Barry Sanders is the greatest runner to ever touch a football. The greatest of all time, bar none, in the history of the universe. There's has been none better before him, after him, and I doubt there ever will be. But he still ranks lower than Payton, Smith, and a handful of other guys. I could argue that he was on the Lions, a horrendous team by any account, and still put up those numbers. I could argue that he quit perfectly healthy after 10th season where he put up the same numbers that he came into the league with (ie stunning), and he was still in his prime. I could argue this, that, and the other thing, but the fact remains; he wasn't the best of all time.

Just like Sanders, Lemieux was undeniably one of the great ones, one of the greatest players who ever lived, whose stats may well stand long after he's dead and gone. Maybe he had more hurdles, both physical and team based. Maybe he had a tougher schedule. Maybe the ice in Pittsburgh was soft and maybe his wife was a nag. But at the end of the day, it's the numbers you put up and your effect on the league which separates the "greats" from the "also rans".

Lemieux was great, a member of a list of greats, an honor by any measure. But there is only one greatest. He is the Great One.
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GWAE
GWAE
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February 26th, 2014 at 12:00:06 PM permalink
Quote: Lemieux66

A lot of people make this mistake. They only compare numbers and completely leave out situation.

Mario Lemieux: GP: 915 Goals: 690 Assists: 1033 PPG: 1.89. In the seasons that he played, he missed 496 games as well as three full seasons in between.

http://m.hkref.com/m?p=XXplayersXXlXXlemiema01.html&t=0

Wayne Gretzky: GP: 1487 Goals: 894 Assists: 1963 PPG: 1.92. In the seasons that Wayne played, he missed 178 games. Not only that, but Gretzky also had much better teams over all and that Wayne being healthy and Mario being healthy were different deals. Mario needed guys to tie his skates at times. So if you take all this data, it's really clear that Mario was better. I mean there shouldn't be a debate.



Are you in Pittsburgh? If so you should join us at the get together this weekend.
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Buzzard
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February 26th, 2014 at 12:09:50 PM permalink
" There's has been none better before him "

Face, ever hear of Jim Brown? And an even greater man after he retired from football.

Jim Brown accomplished these records despite never playing past 29 years of age.

Brown led the league in rushing a record eight times.

He told me, 'Make sure when anyone tackles you he remembers how much it hurts.' He lived by that philosophy and I always followed that advice.
óJohn Mackey, 1999
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet

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