Who should be the new Moderator
Poll
 | 3 votes (6.25%) | ||
| | 21 votes (43.75%) | ||
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| | 1 vote (2.08%) | ||
| | 12 votes (25%) | ||
| | 1 vote (2.08%) | ||
| | 1 vote (2.08%) | ||
| No votes (0%) | |||
| | 3 votes (6.25%) | ||
| | 4 votes (8.33%) |
48 members have voted
Quote: FinsRuleYou just said it yourself. Job. In the US, there is no such thing as a "non-paying job". The 13th amendment outlawed it.
You're allowed to volunteer. But at a for-profit company, there are very very very few instances when volunteers are allowed. Can I volunteer to cashier at Walgreens? No.
The 13th amendment abolished slavery and forced labor. We are still free to "work" without pay if its ojr choice and walk away when we choose
Many people work free in the film industry to gain their professional legs.
Certainly actors doing their first indy roles would not consider themselves "volunteers"
Quote: AxelWolfCan you give a list of legitimate reasons why Nathan would be a good Mod on WOV?
Please keep in mind this isn't your everyday 𝐊𝐈𝐓𝐓𝐘 𝐂𝐀𝐓 forum.
please explain what you meant by the words that I emboldened.
thank you.
Quote: darkozThe 13th amendment abolished slavery and forced labor. We are still free to "work" without pay if its ojr choice and walk away when we choose
Many people work free in the film industry to gain their professional legs.
Certainly actors doing their first indy roles would not consider themselves "volunteers"
The 13th amendment comment was half serious, half joking. The point is that people who are working, are supposed to be paid. That includes actors doing independent work. Although actors are classified differently under the FLSA.
But the film industry was actually the focus of the latest round of lawsuits regarding interns/volunteers. The film industry lost.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/how-all-intern-lawsuits-are-746945
However, the DOL actually changed the requirements recently under Trump to be more friendlier toward businesses and allow workers to be exploited more.
The point is: You cannot volunteer for a for-profit organization. You can be an intern. But the position of moderator doesn't meet those requirements. Could the moderator/admin position be modified to meet the requirements, probably.
If anyone else who has a labor law background has an opinion, I'd love to hear it.
Quote: FinsRuleYou just said it yourself. Job. In the US, there is no such thing as a "non-paying job". The 13th amendment outlawed it.
You're allowed to volunteer. But at a for-profit company, there are very very very few instances when volunteers are allowed. Can I volunteer to cashier at Walgreens? No.
But you got what I was getting at so that's what really matters. :)
Thanks Lilredrooster,Quote: lilredrooster...I felt I had to post this.
It is my understanding from various posts that the position of Moderator is 𝙪𝙣𝙥𝙖𝙞𝙙.
Why should that be so? WoV is 𝙣𝙤𝙩 a 𝙣𝙤𝙣-𝙥𝙧𝙤𝙛𝙞𝙩 organization. It's not a charitable organization.
And why would someone agree to perform work for free?
It's all really mystifying to me.
I have had those same thoughts and they resurfaced just before I 'applied'
We are all content contributors, so we all support the site and it's revenue streams to varying degrees. I suspect that the forum generates little revenue, so I'm happy to contribute a bit extra for free. The cost to me is a bit of my time and potentially a bit of hassle from time to time. But, I sure won't be scouring posts 24/7. I have time to spare and I don't need extra money. I've hosted and owned forums at my own expense and as a volunteer. It's sometimes a chore, but it does have some benefits.
Perhaps I should have said cute puppy forum. I don't frequent puppy and kitten forums, perhaps they are just as hairy as WOV(no pun intended).Quote: lilredroosterplease explain what you meant by the words that I emboldened.
thank you.
Basically, I meant that people don't play nice around here. It's not all kumbaya, love, hugs, and kisses.
IMO, that would be more suited for Nathan.
What the heck does Once Dear mean anyways? I always imagined it is what your response is whenever your better half asks you how many times she or he has to tell you to do something.Quote: OnceDear
Quote: NathanBut you got what I was getting at so that's what really matters. :)
You set a low bar.
Quote: AxelWolfWhat the heck does Once Dear mean anyways? I always imagined it is what your response is whenever your better half asks you how many times she or he has to tell you to do something.
Since you threw that out there
I have been wondering for years what Axelwolf means
Quote: AxelWolfWhat the heck does Once Dear mean anyways? I always imagined it is what your response is whenever your better half asks you how many times she or he has to tell you to do something.
Once Dear said that he chose his username because one day his wife at him when he was coming to bed. He replied,"At once, dear," and the rest was History. :)
Don't be silly, that's my real name (-;Quote: darkozSince you threw that out there
I have been wondering for years what Axelwolf means
Quote: AxelWolfDon't be silly, that's my real name (-;
"axel" such as axel on a car except it's actually spelled "axle"
and "wolf" regarded as very aggressive
my take:........................ he's a very aggressive driver. he's going to cut you off at the bottleneck and then give you the finger (insert smiley faced emoji here)
Quote: PokerGrinderAxel Rose turned into a werewolf?
Yes, but it’s Axl Rose. Lol. He spelled his own username wrong when signing up!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axl_Rose
Not that I know why axel chose his name . But I doubt it was about the rod holding two wheels together, spelled wrong.
Quote: FinsRuleremoved
I do think it's likely to be a counter-productive discussion.
Quote: beachbumbabsI sort of doubt American labor law applies to a business owned by people in Australia and Eastern Europe. I could be wrong.
I do think it's likely to be a counter-productive discussion.
And one best held in private.
Quote: beachbumbabsI sort of doubt American labor law applies to a business owned by people in Australia and Eastern Europe. I could be wrong.
I do think it's likely to be a counter-productive discussion.
You must know that’s wrong if you thought about it more closely.
Do Indian and Mexican workers have to follow American labor laws in India and Mexico?
The law applies to where the work is being performed.
Quote: darkozThe irony coming from a guy whose permanently banned and doesnt go away
Nathan WON herself a stalker
LOL. WON came back literally a few seconds ago to call me a Troll and has already been banned.
In my experience mods either take the job because
A) They get value out of the community and legitimately want to give back and foster a good environment
B) They are power hungry and want to swing their d*ck around.
I think the administration here is good people and fall into category A. There’s been a few suspensions I haven’t agreed with but 3 days is nothing to make a fuss about.
Quote: FinsRuleWe're finally in my area of expertise (besides horse racing). Labor law!
I think the moderators would have a chance at a lawsuit if they wanted. For-profit businesses in the US typically cannot have volunteers. All a moderator would really have to say is that when they became moderator, they assumed it was a minimum wage position. Then after a few weeks, they would ask for a paycheck. By that time, the site admin would probably be smart enough to fire them.
Could a moderator go back for years and years of back wages? Not sure, but I honestly think there's a decent chance of it.
I think to be completely safe, the forum would have to be more of a separate entity, run by a not-for-profit. But since the site was part of a sale, it's hard to argue the forum isn't part of that profitability.
I don't think the moderators could be made independent contractors.
I'm not a lawyer. I've been in HR for 15 years+ and took a few labor law classes.
At some point during the process of every mod being chosen and appointed , I’m sure there is a PM exchange between that person and the Wizard during which the wizard points out that the job is unpaid , and the appointee acknowledges that fact and agrees to take on the role. So then how could someone take on a role they were clearly informed is unpaid and then later on sue for money?
Each of them has their reasons why they feel it’s fair, and that the forum has provided them with something of value and being a mod is a way of giving back. Babs stated that exact fact earlier
Quote: NathanLOL. WON came back literally a few seconds ago to call me a Troll and has already been banned.
So here you are, gloating about getting someone suspended, again? How is that not trolling, regardless of whether it's an already-banned member or not? How was the thread I closed, in which this happened, not an elaborate troll of the forum?
If you're serious about wanting to be taken as a good member here, this kind of stuff has to stop. Or else you should exit now, because I'm done letting it pervade the forum. Last warning.
Quote: beachbumbabsSo here you are, gloating about getting someone suspended, again? How is that not trolling, regardless of whether it's an already-banned member or not? How was the thread I closed, in which this happened, not an elaborate troll of the forum?
If you're serious about wanting to be taken as a good member here, this kind of stuff has to stop. Or else you should exit now, because I'm done letting it pervade the forum. Last warning.
What a roller coaster week for Nathan. From winning the popular vote for new mod to the brink of forum banishment , the mighty can fall quickly here at WOV..
Quote: gamerfreakEvery online community I have been to has unpaid moderators. This includes websites owned by huge billion dollar corporations.
what you said is true
and to me, especially with billion dollar corporations, it is just one more example of those that represent 𝐓𝐇𝐄 𝐁𝐈𝐆 taking advantage of 🇹🇭🇪 🇸🇲🇦🇱🇱
even if the little people agree to it and fully understand their role and their options it's just not right
if I owned a business I would be embarrassed to ask people to perform work for free
these people have no shame
Quote: beachbumbabsSo here you are, gloating about getting someone suspended, again? How is that not trolling, regardless of whether it's an already-banned member or not? How was the thread I closed, in which this happened, not an elaborate troll of the forum?
If you're serious about wanting to be taken as a good member here, this kind of stuff has to stop. Or else you should exit now, because I'm done letting it pervade the forum. Last warning.
Idk if there were “other threads”, but from what I’ve come to understand, banned ex-members aren’t held to the same “protection” as actual member.
Quote: lilredrooster
if I owned a business I would be embarrassed to ask people to perform work for free
these people have no shame
You are in 'the house' of 'these people'. I would say it is you that has no shame in how rudely you describe your hosts.
Quote: RSRE: Paid vs Unpaid administration — IME, moderators have always been unpaid unless they have “serious” work to do, and even then it’s a toss up. I’ve been an admin+moderator on another forum and none of us got compensated, not that any of us expected to get paid for it. We did it because we liked the community and wanted to see it improve / not turn into a s***-hole. Only one guy on the other forum got paid, and he was actually doing serious work that was worth getting paid over, since he was writing a lot of (very complicated) code.
Idk if there were “other threads”, but from what I’ve come to understand, banned ex-members aren’t held to the same “protection” as actual member.
It's not about protection. It's about the type of posts I'm trying to discourage from Nathan. She has asked numerous times for guidance, I'm trying to provide it. If hints and oblique clues don't work, and they haven't for months, it seems best to address it directly where possible. YMMV. I would prefer not to have been put in the position to seem a jerk about it, but that ship sailed long ago.
Quote: FinsRuleYou must know that’s wrong if you thought about it more closely.
Do Indian and Mexican workers have to follow American labor laws in India and Mexico?
The law applies to where the work is being performed.
That might be the most incorrect thing I've seen on this site other that system players and dice controllers.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13That might be the most incorrect thing I've seen on this site other that system players and dice controllers.
ZCore13
Ok... please elaborate my friend.
Quote: FinsRuleOk... please elaborate my friend.
Laws in other Countries do no anything to do with U.S. laws. Employees in other Countries can get paid way less than U.S. minimum wage. Employees in other can be worked way over 40 hours with no overtime. Employees in other Counties dont have to be given standard breaks. Physician and mental abuse are common in some Countries. And we purchase goods from these Counties all the time. Our economy thrives due to these poor conditions elsewhere.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13Laws in other Countries do no anything to do with U.S. laws. Employees in other Countries can get paid way less than U.S. minimum wage. Employees in other can be worked way over 40 hours with no overtime. Employees in other Counties dont have to be given standard breaks. Physician and mental abuse are common in some Countries. And we purchase goods from these Counties all the time. Our economy thrives due to these poor conditions elsewhere.
ZCore13
Exactly!!! So people working in this country have to follow US laws. Thanks for agreeing with me. That means you agree with one of the worst posts ever on this forum. I wonder what that means.
Quote: Zcore13Employees in other can be worked way over 40 hours with no overtime. Employees in other Counties dont have to be given standard breaks. ZCore13
Yup, and we were that country for
a long time. You have to be a
country like that to eventually
grow out of it. The only way we
(and them) could produce goods
was thru slave labor. It changes
with the better your economy gets.
Quote: Zcore13Laws in other Countries do no anything to do with U.S. laws. Employees in other Countries can get paid way less than U.S. minimum wage. Employees in other can be worked way over 40 hours with no overtime. Employees in other Counties dont have to be given standard breaks. Physician and mental abuse are common in some Countries. And we purchase goods from these Counties all the time. Our economy thrives due to these poor conditions elsewhere.
ZCore13
If i read it correctly you and finsrule just agreed
Maybe you read it wrong zcore or am i missing something?
Quote: RSWho gives a s***? If someone wants to volunteer, let them. No one’s being tricked into “working” for free nor hornswoggled out of money.
+1
Quote: RSWho gives a s***? If someone wants to volunteer, let them. No one’s being tricked into “working” for free nor hornswoggled out of money.
no, your post isn't a +1 it's a -𝟖
once again you missed the point
the point isn't about the person volunteering
the point is about the business ethics of putting out a call indicating that, hey, we are a company that would really like to get some free labor
if you could convince a 19 year old to detail your car for free because he thinks you've got some boss wheels and he thinks you're a really cool guy would that be the right thing to do?
Quote: RSWho gives a s***? If someone wants to volunteer, let them. No one’s being tricked into “working” for free nor hornswoggled out of money.
Agree 100%. But the labor laws of this country, although probably well intentioned, have gone too far. I have posted before (I think) that employees of my hospital have morning tasks and have to have an OR ready by 7:30. They used to be able to come in any time 7:00 or before, and if they finished setting up by 7:10 they could go to the restroom, have a coffee, etc.... Now they are not allowed to punch in until 6:54 at the earliest...... so a dozen or so workers are standing by a time clock at 6:50 waiting for the clock to hit the magic 6:54.
I think this site has little risk here. Unless It is contrary to how I think it is done, there are actually no official responsibilities the Mods MUST do, no specific times they MUST be available, no specific minimum number of days they MUST moderate, etc.....
forum, here's what it felt like:
Quote: FinsRuleExactly!!! So people working in this country have to follow US laws. Thanks for agreeing with me. That means you agree with one of the worst posts ever on this forum. I wonder what that means.
I totally misunderstood your comment. I apologize. You are no longer grouped with system players and dice controllers. :)
ZCore13
Quote: lilredroosterthe point is about the business ethics of putting out a call indicating that, hey, we are a company that would really like to get some free labor
I can't really agree when there is transparency about what is requested and it's volunteers doing it. If people want to work for free for the biggest richest corporation, it's not really my problem.
Also, it's not too hard to find other issues with work situations which need greater attention. Although you're free to try to convince those here they are being screwed.
If they are free adults, and they don't care, I don't care. Maybe they are chained to their computers, and being tortured daily, but they are doing a good job hiding it.
(1) work without an expectation or receipt of compensation or benefits,
(2) are not economically dependent on this position,
(3) work on a less than full-time basis,
(4) perform services of the kind typically associated with volunteer work (charitable purposes, such as help to minister to the comfort of the sick, elderly, indigent, infirm, or handicapped, and retarded or disadvantaged youth) and
(5) who would not be displacing any paid workers.
1, 2 and 3 are met. I believe the system, dice controllers, UK. Kitchen posters and conspiracy theorists here help it meet #4's retarded clause. 5 could be a stickler, although one could claim the Mod position would just go away if it weren't volunteer.
Quote: rxwineNo offense, but you looked at this list of people and took it seriously? You've been here awhile and couldn't have missed that much.
Like Hillary Clinton, Nathan was the highest vote getter amongst a field of unattractive candidates.
And while I believe that Nathan is still too naive to be a moderator right now, I think she has the most important quality that is needed in a moderator: she is a confrontation-avoider. She deflects confrontations with humor and by asking questions.
This WOV forum certainly has a lot of confrontation-seekers!
She may be a confrontation-avoider. Unfortunately, she is a big confirmation seeker. I can just imagine all the new threads she would make asking if she did a good job on each and every decision.Quote: gordonm888Like Hillary Clinton, Nathan was the highest vote getter amongst a field of unattractive candidates.
And while I believe that Nathan is still too naive to be a moderator right now, I think she has the most important quality that is needed in a moderator: she is a confrontation-avoider. She deflects confrontations with humor and by asking questions.
This WOV forum certainly has a lot of confrontation-seekers!
I get the feeling that when the Wizard told Nathan to PM him about being a moderator he knew very little about Nathans prior posts and history on the forum. He just got all excited when he heard someone actully wanted to be a moderator. (-;
Perhaps he can just make her an honorary moderator.
Quote: AxelWolf
Perhaps he can just make her an honorary moderator.
Like a test drive.
