2016 Election -- Part II
Poll
 | 57 votes (47.89%) | ||
| | 33 votes (27.73%) | ||
| | 12 votes (10.08%) | ||
| | 10 votes (8.4%) | ||
| | 4 votes (3.36%) | ||
| | 3 votes (2.52%) |
119 members have voted
Quote: MathExtremistAnd while we're talking about early voting reports:Quote: ams288Well here's some good news: Early voting kills Trump in NV
https://twitter.com/electionsmith/status/794560117391753216
https://twitter.com/LatinoDecisions/status/794628930850340866
Skimming that LatinoDecisions feed should make the GOP very nervous. The mainstream polls are apparently under-reporting compared to Florida polling of Latinos conducted by Latino pollsters. If Trump loses Florida, we can all go to bed early on Tuesday night. (I won't, but I could...)
I would love to be able to go to bed early on Tuesday night, but I am mentally preparing myself for a long night...
And here on Planet Earth, even 79% of Trump supporters believe that paying taxes is a "civic duty". That shows you how incredibly far on the fringe some of the members of this forum are.Quote: AZDuffmanScrew the government for all you can.
Don't make the mistake of thinking that extremists like AZDuffman are representative of Trump voters.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/03/politics/cnn-orc-poll-taxes-donald-trump-2016-election/
Quote: MathExtremistYou're only earning that living because your neighbors' ancestors built the country in which you're able to earn that living. It's shamefully ignorant of history to suggest that you've been able to achieve your vast wealth and luxury all by your lonesome.
Screwing the government is screwing your neighbors and spitting on the hard work of their ancestors. It's cheating society and you should be ashamed to even suggest it, just like Donald Trump should be ashamed of dodging his tax obligations by fraudulently running his business expenses through sham charities. When society builds itself up by agreeing to a set of rules, it's selfish, narrow-minded, ignorant and greedy for some to cheat and break those rules.
If you're a tax cheat, you are a bad American.
If they had even one minuscule item to nail Trump on, he'd be in jail. He doesn't have DOJ protection. The government cannot give you or anyone else anything, that you or anyone else give them first. Their rake makes $1 per hand rake BJ look like a deal.
Quote: ams288Well here's some good news: Early voting kills Trump in NV
I personally know 8 registered democrats that voted Trump in Clark County. Out of all the people I associate or work with in Clark County only 2 voted Hillary. This is out of about 80 people.
ON the other hand, if the population in prisons is high in percentages of illegals. Well, there's the gun argument, that laws are only keeping the good people out, and the bad people still make it in. A wall will just make it worse.
Quote: MaxPenQuote: ams288Well here's some good news: Early voting kills Trump in NV
I personally know 8 registered democrats that voted Trump in Clark County. Out of all the people I associate or work with in Clark County only 2 voted Hillary. This is out of about 80 people.
Good for you.
Quote: MathExtremistNo it wasn't. It's a natural but unintended consequence of capitalism. It wasn't intentional by any stretch of the imagination. There are lots of ways to attempt to address it within the confines of capitalism, but I think we're doing our society a great disservice if we don't spend some time looking at how a post-capitalist world would work as well. The vast, vast majority of what everyone thinks of as corruption or fraud are motivated by greed. Trump can make more money by hiring illegal aliens to build his buildings, he does it. A drug company can make more money by selling a dangerous product and paying the inevitable settlement costs, they do it. A medical screw distributor can make more money by selling counterfeit spinal-implant screws to doctors, they do it. http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article2604214.html.
Ideally, the government would act to curb these things, externalities and so forth, rather than facilitate them. But they don't, because they are corrupt and becoming irretrievably so.
Smith knew that capitalism and corruption would go hand and hand from the outset, so in that sense, it is all just capitalism.
But, we had better bankruptcy protection, and now we don't, because Hillary and a bunch of others are corrupt and voted to change it on behalf of bankers who pay them bribes.
There's nothing inherent in market economies that dictates that labor laws can't be enforced, or that immigration policy can't be written with the good of the general population in mind. Nor is it an inherent part of capitalism that a country must implement trade agreements that are literally written by corporations.
Unless it is that way. That is, unless capitalism leads inevitably to a Mexico/Russia model, as capital becomes more clever about overwhelming the political apparatus and destroying representation for all other interests. In which case we need to start working on the next thing.
I kind of still think a mixed economy might be viable for a while, if we can root out corruption. But, other times I think soft fascism is inevitable.
Quote: MaxPenI personally know 8 registered democrats that voted Trump in Clark County. Out of all the people I associate or work with in Clark County only 2 voted Hillary. This is out of about 80 people.
I know 8 registered Republicans. 2 are voting for Trump, 2 are voting for Hillary, and 4 are committing suicide.
(yeah, I don't care if I'm the only one who thinks that's funny )
Quote: MathExtremist
The America we should strive for is far better served by an honest, hard-working undocumented worker who is willing and able to support the society he lives in than a native-born like AZDuffman whose stated philosophy is "screw the government." But that's the America we should strive for. The one we'll actually get depends on how many AZDuffman, burn-it-down types go to the polls on Tuesday.
Might well be quite a bit more at the polls than you realize. Revolution happens when too many people finally get pushed too far. Many people are getting pushed too far. And yes, my policy has become "screw the government." When your government governs like ours does, that is what people get driven to. The Constitution seems to matter not. The rule of law matters not. One set of rules for some of us and not for others. Government openly discriminating on skin color and other factors at the same time it will destroy people it says do the same. Forcing purchase of products just by virtue of being alive. So many other things.
Yes, burn it down! How much is enough?
Obviously Trump is driving the surge, just not the way he wants
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/11/05/trump_has_almost_certainly_lost_nevada_amid_surge_of_latino_votes.html
http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/04/politics/latinos-voter-turnout-early-voting-2016-election/
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/06/us/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-campaign.html?_r=0
'In Florida, at least 200,000 more Hispanics had voted early as of Friday than did during the entire early voting period four years ago, according to an analysis by Steve Schale, a Democratic strategist who helped run President Obama�s two campaigns here.
The turnout has been particularly explosive in South Florida and Central Florida, where thousands from Puerto Rico and other regions of Latin America have migrated in recent years. And 24 percent of the Hispanics casting early ballots were first-time voters, the analysis showed."
Wed morning republican autopsy will be the same old same old, have to do better with Hispanics
some people never learn
Quote: terapinedHispanic early voting is surging :-)
Obviously Trump is driving the surge, just not the way he wants
Oh please!
I know 894 Latinos. 796 of them are voting for Trump. They told me.
Please just believe me and don't ask for any proof. I can't post links so I can't prove anything I say.
Quote: ams288Oh please!
I know 894 Latinos. 796 of them are voting for Trump. They told me.
Please just believe me and don't ask for any proof. I can't post links so I can't prove anything I say.
I believe it. Then again, I was confused while watching, Trolls, the movie by Dreamworks. People who attend spirit cooking dinners are way more informed than me. Anyone have a link to the Trolls movie trailer?
Here's a spirit cooking link
http://www.hannity.com/articles/election-493995/leaked-email-appears-to-link-clinton-15270858/
Quote: MaxPenI believe it. Then again, I was confused while watching, Trolls, the movie by Dreamworks. People who attend spirit cooking dinners are way more informed than me. Anyone have a link to the Trolls movie trailer?
Here's a spirit cooking link
http://www.hannity.com/articles/election-493995/leaked-email-appears-to-link-clinton-15270858/
Haha. Brilliant!!
Yeah, it's a rigged system when people on the other side are allowed to legally vote.
*Actual* rigging is when Trump supporters make fake ads falsely telling Hillary supporters they can text their votes.
Quote: MaxPenI believe it.
That doesn't surprise me at all.....
Quote: MichaelBluejayIn Clark County, 30% Hispanic, voting continued until 10pm even though the polls closed at 7 because, as has always been the custom, if you're in line when the polls close, you still get to vote. But Republicans consider that voter fraud. The chair of the Nevada GOP complained, "Last night, in Clark County, they kept a poll open until 10 o'clock at night so a certain group could vote....Yeah, you feel free right now?" In Reno, Trump said that the late voting was evidence of a "rigged system". (CNN)
Yeah, it's a rigged system when people on the other side are allowed to legally vote.
Actually, it is evidence of a rigged system. It is an old-school thing. Drop a busload of "minorities" off a few minutes before polls close with no ID and suspect registration. Has happened. Does happen.
Really, with all this early voting they somehow cannot make it to the polls all day but flood the place at the end of the day? When poll workers are itching to go home?
The simple and correct answer remains to end early voting and just have one day for the election, like worked for over 200 years. That is the most fair way to do things.
Quote: AZDuffmanThe simple and correct answer remains to end early voting and just have one day for the election, like worked for over 200 years. That is the most fair way to do things.
Nonsense. "Most fair" to who??
The more people that vote, the better it is for our democracy. Not everyone can make it to the polls on Election Day for a whole bunch of reasons.
Republicans know they do better when less people vote. Hence AZDuffman pretending it's more "fair" to have no early voting. What a load of B.S.
Mark my words: after they lose states with heavy early voting like NV and FL on Tuesday, Republicans will launch a war against early voting just like AZDuffman did here. The less people that vote, the better they do. It really is that simple.
Quote: ams288Nonsense. "Most fair" to who??
Most fair to the average voter. Most fair to the voter who is not too lazy to get out and vote on election day. Most fair in that early voting makes fraud easier.
Quote:The more people that vote, the better it is for our democracy.
Not really. It is not better if uninformed people just show up and pull a lever for sake of saying we have high turnout.
Quote:Not everyone can make it to the polls on Election Day for a whole bunch of reasons.
Then they should not get to vote. Most of the "reasons" involve being too lazy to get to the polls. You do have some people like OTR truckers who we have the absentee ballot system for. That is an acceptable system as long as you cannot vote absentee in your first election (fraud measure) and you still have to show up say once every 3-4 years (another fraud measure.)
Otherwise on Election Day, show up. And show up with a photo ID!
As far as the back and forth on Trump and taxes, and Trump and his charity..... If there is fire behind the smoke, the Dems would have found it by now, and turned over whatever evidence they had to whatever prosecuting authority would have jurisdiction. I'm just a doctor with almost no deductions, all my income visible, and it still is a mess to accurately fill out my return. I can't imagine how complicated an entrepreneur's return must look.
Quote: SOOPOOI'm just a doctor with almost no deductions, all my income visible, and it still is a mess to accurately fill out my return. I can't imagine how complicated an entrepreneur's return must look.
You do not say if you are in a practice or work in a hospital of some sort. I can assure anyone here that income taxes for a doctor in a practice are a nightmare of the first order. Seen it. I can imagine the return for the Trump organization being the size of a phone book.
An auditor who cannot find errors of some level on such returns are not qualified for their job. This is a smart reason Trump did not release the returns while under audit. Many IRS rules can be read and understood different ways. He would be a fool to let the public root thru them while the audit was still deciding what was or was not right.
Quote: AZDuffmanMost fair to the average voter. Most fair to the voter who is not too lazy to get out and vote on election day. Most fair in that early voting makes fraud easier.
More nonsense.
"The average voter" is code for old white people who miss the good ol days.
"Too lazy" is an obvious dog whistle.
"Makes fraud easier" = blatant lie with no proof.
Quote: SOOPOOI've been thinking.... If Hillary wins its no big deal, the status quo is maintained. If Trump wins the country is in for a real shakeup, with a bunch of positives and a bunch of negatives. AZ thinks lots of positives, ams thinks lots of negatives.
Yes, lots of negatives.
But to be fair, I'd much rather have a President Trump than a President Ted Cruz. At least Donald was a Democrat for most of his life...
And let's not forget AZ was no fan of Trump during the primary until it became clear Donald was winning...
Quote: ams288
"Too lazy" is an obvious dog whistle.
What on earth is this fascination with dog whistles? I don't own a dog.
Quote:"Makes fraud easier" = blatant lie with no proof.
I have pointed out many ways it makes fraud easier. Because it does.
Quote: ams288
But to be fair, I'd much rather have a President Trump than a President Ted Cruz. At least Donald was a Democrat for most of his life...
As was Reagan. People get smarter as they age.
Quote:And let's not forget AZ was no fan of Trump during the primary until it became clear Donald was winning...
I liked Walker until he was out. I listened and started to like Trump. Sign of an open-mind. How many Bernie supporters will vote Hillary?
Quote: AZDuffmanHow many Bernie supporters will vote Hillary?
I would bet over 85%
Even if you provided evidence for this (which you did not, because no such evidence exists, and has not been reported anywhere, not even on completely non-credible right-wing outlets, and not even in the Nevada GOP chair's complaint about the polls being open late), your argument basically remains that the system is rigged because people who are legally entitled to vote got to vote. Right.Quote: AZDuffmanActually, it is evidence of a rigged system....Drop a busload of "minorities" off a few minutes before polls close with no ID and suspect registration.
By that logic then anyone who votes on election day is cheating also, because they had plenty of time to vote early.Quote: AZDuffmanReally, with all this early voting they somehow cannot make it to the polls all day but flood the place at the end of the day?
Like worked BADLY for many years. I waited over two hours to vote in the primary. Without early voting, I would have waited three. Others waited more. Again, you're just really bothered that people legally voted.Quote: AZDuffmanThe simple and correct answer remains to end early voting and just have one day for the election, like worked for over 200 years.
Quote: AZDuffmanThe simple and correct answer remains to end early voting and just have one day for the election, like worked for over 200 years. That is the most fair way to do things.
Fair for those whose ambition is to just work local side jobs, yea its easy
but
this aint the horse and buggy age
200 years ago, odds were you were in town election day
That's no longer the case
Many people have important jobs that require international travel
I book travel for a large company of engineers and executives
Nobody in the entire company can guarantee they will be in the country election day.
International trips coming up at the last minute is the norm
Quote: terapinedFair for those whose ambition is to just work local side jobs, yea its easy
but
this aint the horse and buggy age
200 years ago, odds were you were in town election day
That's no longer the case
Many people have important jobs that require international travel
I book travel for a large company of engineers and executives
Nobody in the entire company can guarantee they will be in the country election day.
International trips coming up at the last minute is the norm
Absentee ballot works.
Thing I don't like about early voting or even the thing where they show state by state which is going which way is it could reduce incentive to go vote. If you see your state is favoring one side or the other, less likely to vote (in my opinion). I think it'd be good if no results were reported until all the polls are closed.
Quote: RSAbsentee ballot works.
Thing I don't like about early voting or even the thing where they show state by state which is going which way is it could reduce incentive to go vote. If you see your state is favoring one side or the other, less likely to vote (in my opinion). I think it'd be good if no results were reported until all the polls are closed.
28 states have absentee voting by mail is allowed with no excuse.
22 other states, its a grey area
My clients cant prove they will be out of the country on election day
They just don't know.
They might be home, they might not
Really must suck working for the most corrupt woman in history. Guess the Russians did it excuse isn't going over so well.
Quote: MaxPenWhat is campaign manager Jennifer Palmeiri so afraid of being exposed?https://mobile.twitter.com/jmpalmieri/status/795264366547533824
Really must suck working for the most corrupt woman in history. Guess the Russians did it excuse isn't going over so well.
Well, the vast majority of the Wikileaks data dumps have been nothing burgers. Typical campaign stuff that hasn't moved the meter much.
The Russians might get desperate in the last couple days and drop some fake documents.... THAT is what her tweet is referring to.
Quote: RSI think it'd be good if no results were reported until all the polls are closed.
We would have to repeal the First Amendment and it's annoying Freedom of the Press
Quote: terapinedFair for those whose ambition is to just work local side jobs, yea its easy
but
this aint the horse and buggy age
200 years ago, odds were you were in town election day
That's no longer the case
Many people have important jobs that require international travel
I book travel for a large company of engineers and executives
Nobody in the entire company can guarantee they will be in the country election day.
International trips coming up at the last minute is the norm
That is why the absentee ballot was created. Even that needs to have checks on it to prevent fraud. The number of people legit out of town on election day is probably <3-4%.
Quote: MichaelBluejayEven if you provided evidence for this (which you did not, because no such evidence exists, and has not been reported anywhere, not even on completely non-credible right-wing outlets, and not even in the Nevada GOP chair's complaint about the polls being open late), your argument basically remains that the system is rigged because people who are legally entitled to vote got to vote. Right.
No, my argument is they flood the polls with people of questionable eligibility.
Quote:By that logic then anyone who votes on election day is cheating also, because they had plenty of time to vote early.
No, because that it voting on ELECTION DAY.
Quote:Like worked BADLY for many years. I waited over two hours to vote in the primary. Without early voting, I would have waited three. Others waited more. Again, you're just really bothered that people legally voted.
Get out of bed earlier, maybe? Really, the solution here is more polling places or more capacity and existing places. Or some combination of both. That is more secure by far. Why are liberals so afraid of requiring people to show up on Election Day? Sounds like more excuses to rig the system to me.
Technically they're not reporting early voting results, they're reporting voter roll turnouts. That's all public data -- in fact, I just looked online and my early ballot has already been accepted and will be counted when it's time for the tally. My vote is still secret but the fact that I voted isn't.Quote: RSAbsentee ballot works.
Thing I don't like about early voting or even the thing where they show state by state which is going which way is it could reduce incentive to go vote. If you see your state is favoring one side or the other, less likely to vote (in my opinion). I think it'd be good if no results were reported until all the polls are closed.
However, here's an article on a tech effort to do real-time exit polling and basically overturn the decades-long tradition of refraining from starting to analyze the results prior to the polls closing on the West Coast:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/11/us/politics/election-results-voting.html
http://votecastr.us/
That's like mandating that people can only eat lunch from 12:00 to 12:45. You can't eat any other time, and it's illegal for restaurants to be open before noon or after 1pm because that's just another excuse to rig the digestive system.Quote: AZDuffmanGet out of bed earlier, maybe? Really, the solution here is more polling places or more capacity and existing places. Or some combination of both. That is more secure by far. Why are liberals so afraid of requiring people to show up on Election Day? Sounds like more excuses to rig the system to me.
You think people who vote early are lazy Hispanics but you also think Hispanics are streaming across the border to take American jobs. So they're only lazy on voting day?
Quote: MathExtremistThat's like mandating that people can only eat lunch from 12:00 to 12:45. You can't eat any other time, and it's illegal for restaurants to be open before noon or after 1pm because that's just another excuse to rig the digestive system.
I don't get the connection here. I do understand that you discount the importance of physical security measures,though, so it is not a surprise that you see no harm in it all.
Quote:You think people who vote early are lazy Hispanics but you also think Hispanics are streaming across the border to take American jobs. So they're only lazy on voting day?
Again, this still does not make sense. If they can vote early they can make it on election day. Voting on just election day is more secure. So it requiring ID, but somehow that is a burden as well. Why not just go to their home at a time they ask and let them vote there?
Quote: AZDuffmanVoting on just election day is more secure.
Total lie.
Early voting is just as secure as voting on Election Day.
Quote: AZDuffmanGet out of bed earlier, maybe? Really, the solution here is more polling places or more capacity and existing places. Or some combination of both. That is more secure by far. Why are liberals so afraid of requiring people to show up on Election Day? Sounds like more excuses to rig the system to me.
Confusing Americans value of convenience for rigged elections is your first mistake..
They're only lazy on the job. (-;Quote: MathExtremistThat's like mandating that people can only eat lunch from 12:00 to 12:45. You can't eat any other time, and it's illegal for restaurants to be open before noon or after 1pm because that's just another excuse to rig the digestive system.
You think people who vote early are lazy Hispanics but you also think Hispanics are streaming across the border to take American jobs. So they're only lazy on voting day?
just vote ten times and agree to disagree. You have his blessing to screw the government, so use it.Quote: ams288Total lie.
Early voting is just as secure as voting on Election Day.
Are you saying that's what happened in Clark County? If so, then where's your evidence, since not even the state GOP chair or Trump are saying that? (i.e., That's another extremely fringe position.) If you're *not* saying that, then why did you say that late night voting in Clark County "is evidence of a rigged system"?Quote: AZDuffmanNo, my argument is they flood the polls with people of questionable eligibility.
Again, you throw around that word too casually. If he actually *believes* that nonsense, then he's merely wrong, not lying.Quote: ams288Total lie.
Quote: AZDuffmanIf they can vote early they can make it on election day.
Maybe for those who don't work or for those whose times isn't worth very much. Eliminating early voting means that the working party would be at a major disadvantage in every election. Is that really what you want?
Quote: AZDuffmanVoting on just election day is more secure.
Please explain the insecurity of early voting as no one else in the country seems to understand it
Quote: ams288Well, the vast majority of the Wikileaks data dumps have been nothing burgers. Typical campaign stuff that hasn't moved the meter much.
The Russians might get desperate in the last couple days and drop some fake documents.... THAT is what her tweet is referring to.
Well, she did cheat in the primary.
Turn Libya into hell on earth, because she thought it would help her election bid to brag about killing Gaddafi.
But you're right, in the world of MSNBC/NYT type liberals, those things are trivialities. Those tens of thousands of dead Lybians were just another "mistake" and plus, we can't buy more bombs if we don't use the ones we got. Anyone who absorbs that information must be a bernie bro racist misogynist, or part of a vast right wing conspiracy.
I do think these things sort of work their way into the public consciousness though, even if it's in a non-specific way. That's why she's seen by most as a corrupt and horrible person.
Quote: TomG
Please explain the insecurity of early voting as no one else in the country seems to understand it
I have before but will again. I see two issues:
1. Easier to have the same person(s) vote more than once since more people on duty means less chance of remembering a face.
2. All the poll equipment is left night after night in unsecured in many places. Might just be a closet at the firehouse. The secure way to do it is a live chain of custody, never out of sight of at least two people. Pick it up at election HQ early in the morning and drop it off at the end of the day.
For some unknown reason, we seem to only need all these "enhanced" voting measures in the most Democrat areas. That alone shows a problem.
