2016 Election -- Part II
Poll
 | 57 votes (47.89%) | ||
| | 33 votes (27.73%) | ||
| | 12 votes (10.08%) | ||
| | 10 votes (8.4%) | ||
| | 4 votes (3.36%) | ||
| | 3 votes (2.52%) |
119 members have voted
Quote: RSI've heard (many times) liberals vote with their heart while conservatives vote with their brain.
This is the first time I heard that conservatives have brain. Now I know, and my guess their brain must be full of Kool-Aid.
We all vote with our heart, however Liberals' heart is filled with loves and compassions while conservatives' heart is full of hates and angers.
Quote:Since voting to unionize last December, employees at Las Vegas' Trump International Hotel say their famous employer has refused to acknowledge or negotiate with the union.
The Trump International Hotel employs more than 500 workers who clean rooms or prepare and serve food and drinks, more than half of whom voted to unionize almost a year ago.
"He says he's a big negotiator, but he doesn't negotiate with the workers," Elsabeth Moges, who has worked as a Trump International housekeeper in Las Vegas for four years, told Business Insider.
In Las Vegas, 95% of hotels on the Strip and in the downtown area are unionized, making Trump Hotel, which the candidate owns with billionaire Phil Ruffin, an anomaly. Union workers in Vegas hotels make about $3 more per hour than workers at Trump Hotel and receive pensions and healthcare benefits, according to workers and the Culinary Workers Union, Nevada's powerful hospitality union.
This discrepancy, Moges says, and the desire for greater job security helped drive her and fellow employees to push for a union.
"We work very hard every single day, and we're not appreciated," she said.
Even before the vote to unionize, the Culinary Workers Union says the hotel attempted to block pro-union efforts. Trump Hotel, meanwhile, has accused union supporters of pressuring workers to vote for the union by saying they would be fired if they didn't vote for unionization.
The Trump Organization did not respond to Business Insider's request for comment. "
http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-hotel-workers-say-boss-isnt-fit-to-be-president-2016-11
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: 777I think Scalia cited the 14th amendment's Equal Protection clause in his reasoning when he APPOINTED George Bush as a POTUS in the Bush v. Gore.
I still fail to see how stopping Gore's attempts to steal an election is appointing the winner.
Now, the 14th applied because Gore knew his chances of stealing the election improved if he only disputed votes in the most heavily Democrat counties. So adding Gore votes there and not in a more conservative county would indeed violate Equal Protection. I'm not even a lawyer and can easily understand that.
States may select electors however they feel fit. If the congressional districts are approved and they want to do it that way then this is a good thing. It would protect the interests of the rural areas over the big cities. Would also dilute attempted voter fraud in big cities since you would not be able to steal nearly as many electors. More I think on it the more sense it makes!
Senators and Congressmen/women are selected by individual States, but President is collectively selected by all 50 states. Therefore, the 14th Amendment would be an obstacle if "gerrymandering" in Presidential election is not uniformly applied to all 50 states.
In the Bush v. Gore, there was no "gerrymandering" basis and the 14th amendment was falsely used as an excuse to STEAL the election from Gore. SCOTUS' Justices appointed by the GOP stole the 2000 Presidential Election, therefore; I do not considered Bush an elected President, but rather he was APPOINTED by US Supreme Court Justice Scalia and the other 4 Supreme Court Justices.
Quote: RSI've heard (many times) liberals vote with their heart while conservatives vote with their brain.
How'd you guys end up with Trump?
Quote: rxwineHow'd you guys end up with Trump?
LOL.
President Trump is a real and increasing possibility.
What are the chances President Trump actually makes it to the end of his first term without being impeached, indicted, forcibly removed from office by the military, or (my favorite theory) he simply steps down because he only wanted to win the election, he never actually wanted to serve as president?Quote: MichaelBluejayPresident Trump is a real and increasing possibility.
Quote: MichaelBluejayHillary's chances have dropped nearly every day for the last 2-1/2 weeks, and that continued today. FiveThirtyEight shows that Trump has flipped another state from blue to red, and now has to flip only ONE more state to win the presidency (NH), where he trails by only 3 points. And one recent, credible poll actually has him at +1 for NH. RCP has Clinton ahead by only 1.3 points nationwide now.
President Trump is a real and increasing possibility.
Hey, why don't you go convince Trump climate change is real, while you're stressing me out with your posts.
Quote: MathExtremistforcibly removed from office by the military
This scenario would actually be scary. You are probably familiar with the Stanford experiment and the Milgram experiment.
People's response to authority figures is truly scary.
People think everyone would do the right thing under authority. Most don't.
Then on top of that we already have potential looney loyalists who think he does no wrong already or want to shake things up.
Yes, but so are the generals in charge of the military. And several are on record as flatly refusing to comply with Trump if he orders US forces to commit war crimes. I have more faith in actual warfighters than Trump to carry out effective military strategy, even though he shamelessly brags that "I know more about ISIS than the generals do, believe me." Trump might not take his duties under the Constitution seriously, but the military does. Unlike the Presidential Oath of Office, the military Oath of Enlistment bears allegiance first to the Constitution, then to the President:Quote: rxwineThis scenario would actually be scary. You are probably familiar with the Stanford experiment and the Milgram experiment.
Quote: Oath of EnlistmentI, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.
If Trump orders war crimes, it wouldn't be a stretch to see him declared an enemy of the state by the military and removed by force. The scenario that's actually scary is that we have a presidential candidate that's threatened to commit war crimes in the first place.
Also, consider that although the military is supposed to ignore unlawful orders, career military really get ingrained habits of obeying the authority over them. The experiments proved that even strong values against certain actions can often be overridden. Then you have to consider the confusion, of some in high positions following the orders they are given, versus the ones who don't. It's a familiar situation in any type of coup.
But I'm going to stop here because I only enjoy silly conspiracy theories.
Removing a President is solely the responsibility of Congress.
Talking about violence to protestors.
Suing or limiting the press
Narcissim and his rather grandiose appreciation of himself (
Suggested use of weapons of mass destruction rather flippantly (nukes)
Admiration of other strong men.
Plenty of outright lying.
Diffuse or overt racism.
Bringing back torture
Plenty of empty promises, though that's a trait of many regular politicians.
Direct appeal to masses, with plenty of scapegoats.
Also, very thinskinned, maybe a persecution complex which with people attacking him everyday as President may lend itself to actual paranoia of seeing enemies everywhere.
What'd I miss?
Oh yeah, he's actually perfectly normal, so I'm told.
Quote:The FBI and U.S. intelligence agencies are examining faked documents aimed at discrediting the Hillary Clinton campaign as part of a broader investigation into what U.S. officials believe has been an attempt by Russia to disrupt the presidential election, people with knowledge of the matter said.
U.S. Senator Tom Carper, a Democrat on the Senate Homeland Security Committee, has referred one of the documents to the FBI for investigation on the grounds that his name and stationery were forged to appear authentic, some of the sources who had knowledge of that discussion said.
In the letter identified as fake, Carper is quoted as writing to Clinton, “We will not let you lose this election,” a person who saw the document told Reuters.
The fake Carper letter, which was described to Reuters, is one of several documents presented to the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the U.S. Department of Justice for review in recent weeks, the sources said.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fbi-examining-fake-documents-targeting-clinton-campaign-sources/ar-AAjRZyS?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp
Quote: terapinedWe are all looking at the same partially filled glass
Libs, its half full, cool
Conservatives, its half empty, damm
Quote: trumpI promise to fill the glass again ( as he p155es in it )
Psalm 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
Quote: MaxPenI would rather be deplorable than delusional.
Man, I remember back in the good old days... How long ago was it? Long time I think, when Obama slipped out a phrase "spreading the wealth around." Rightwingers jumped on that for 6 weeks like it was the end of the world.
So on the news today, for the umpteemth time, I hear a Trump supporter say, ah Trump says something wrong or dumb, but that's okay.
Gee how things change.
Quote: crazydazyIt's good that we discriminate people on the basis of what they believe in? What are Muslims doing in Europe by the way besides dealing with xenophobia, like in France where they banned burkas in public. I hope you realize more people die from shark attacks and falling coconuts than radical terrorism annually in the western world.
Your closed-mindedness speaks volumes.
Preserving your society is more important than being seen as not discriminating. See, you have fallen into the trap that if there is little terrorism then all must be good. Ignoring the no-go zones. Ignoring the harassment of western women by muslim males. Ignoring the decay. You are the type who will one day wake up to a society as crappy as in Pakistan and wonder "how did this happen?"
I am not closed minded at all. I am a realist who sees what happens in muslim societies and how violent islam gets. I don't care about appearing "open minded." I want to keep my society, not be taken over and forced to live in some crazy one piece by piece.
Quote: MathExtremistMy high school civics teacher once taught us that a distinction between liberal and conservative political views is their view of human decency: the liberal view is optimistic, the conservative view is pessimistic.
I've been screwed over by enough business partners that I should be a total cynic by now, but I'm not (yet). I still think that most people are basically good, and I try to act accordingly. If Trump acted the same way, he'd be winning in a landslide.
I've heard that. I would personally modify it a touch that liberals more want to keep believing people are good while conservatives are not so much pessimistic but more realists. You can see this in the breakdown by education. The higher the education level the generally more liberal someone is. This correlates that the more time in college the more liberal you are. In college you get to write papers and talk about how great things would be if only you can do this or that.
Later, you have to enter the real world. Like the saying that the best battle plan last about a minute in combat, in the real world unintended consequences slap you in the face hard and fast. It isn't just educated folks. Anyone who has been in a management structure has seen how higher ups will have some marvelous plan that is great on paper but lousy on the street.
Trump is being a realist. You cannot just pour in poor refugees from a culture that hates our culture and values. Here is a real example I saw last month. People want to help kids in Haiti. So they adopt orphans. So far so good. But many Haiti "orphans" are not really orphans. People drop their kids at orphanages because they cannot care for them. They will even come and visit them. Mr and Mrs wealthy American come by and meet the kids. Madonna did the same but in Africa. They will scoop them up and take them from their family. Many of these kids never truly bond with their American families and really just want to go back home.
These refugees are the same way. That is not pessimism, it is realism.
But, Say what you will, say what you want about MaxPen, other than his trolling this thread(not calling him a troll, but I'm thinking he's been having fun F-ing with some of you). I think he's considerably smarter than many give him credit for. From a few conversations with him about all this election crap, it's kinda playing out like he's describe to me a while ago.
But, Say what you will, say what you want about MaxPen, other than his trolling this thread(not calling him a troll, but I'm thinking he's been having fun F-ing with some of you). I think he's considerably smarter than many give him credit for. From a few conversations with him about all this election crap, it's kinda playing out like he's describe to me a while ago.
Then again he's cost me about $2 an ounce in silver with his doomsday talk )-; . Hopefully he will share his bunker .
I think I would be panicked, but the early vote numbers from NV are what are really keeping me calm.
As of yesterday, 61K more Dem early votes had been cast in Clark Co. than Republican early votes.
It will take a HUGE GOP turnout on election day to overcome what Dems have already banked in NV. Obama won NV in 2012 by ~68,000 votes.
Follow @RalstonReports on Twitter, no one knows NV better.
Did you go to college? I did. I never wrote any papers about how great things would be if only you can do this or that. I wrote an operating system, a critique of Chaucer, a military band overture, and an empirical review of algorithms for cartographic label placement. If you think everyone who goes to college sits around and writes futurist wishlists, you're sadly and grossly mistaken. If that's all *you* did in college, you wasted your time. You don't need to go to college in order to write an essay on how great things would be if only such and such. You can do that on the Internet with no education whatsoever. Look no further than the alt-right websites for proof of that.Quote: AZDuffmanI've heard that. I would personally modify it a touch that liberals more want to keep believing people are good while conservatives are not so much pessimistic but more realists. You can see this in the breakdown by education. The higher the education level the generally more liberal someone is. This correlates that the more time in college the more liberal you are. In college you get to write papers and talk about how great things would be if only you can do this or that.
You've used that "real world" phrase many times before, and you have a sad misunderstanding of the relationship between education and "real world" success. It's easy enough to see the correlation between income and educational attainment, but despite that, you disdain schooling. It's true that unintended consequences always pop up, but the more prepared and educated you are about them, the better you can deal with it. It seems foolish to favor jumping head-first into a new situation, unprepared, without learning about it first. But of course you do: you're voting for Trump, the least prepared or qualified presidential candidate ever.Quote:Later, you have to enter the real world. Like the saying that the best battle plan last about a minute in combat, in the real world unintended consequences slap you in the face hard and fast. It isn't just educated folks. Anyone who has been in a management structure has seen how higher ups will have some marvelous plan that is great on paper but lousy on the street.
If you and other self-titled conservatives truly believe that education breeds liberal philosophy, that would explain the anti-education, pro-ignorance movement among under-educated GOP voters. But if the only way you can preserve your conservative values is to promote ignorance, you should take a long hard look at whether those values are truly worth preserving. A philosophy based on keeping its believers in the dark is not only morally corrupt but doomed to fail.
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
― Plato
Quote: AZDuffmanI've heard that. I would personally modify it a touch that liberals more want to keep believing people are good while conservatives are not so much pessimistic but more realists. You can see this in the breakdown by education. The higher the education level the generally more liberal someone is. This correlates that the more time in college the more liberal you are. In college you get to write papers and talk about how great things would be if only you can do this or that.
I am bi-racial
Immigrant Chinese side of my extended family, education is very important. Many doctors on my immigrant Chinese side of the family. You don't become a doctor due to "In college you get to write papers and talk about how great things would be if only you can do this or that. "
That's absurd
Quote: terapinedI am bi-racial
Immigrant Chinese side of my extended family, education is very important. Many doctors on my immigrant Chinese side of the family. You don't become a doctor due to "In college you get to write papers and talk about how great things would be if only you can do this or that. "
That's absurd
Doctors are a small subset of advanced degrees.
What does being bi-racial have to do with it?
Here's a thought experiment:Quote: terapinedI am bi-racial
Immigrant Chinese side of my extended family, education is very important. Many doctors on my immigrant Chinese side of the family. You don't become a doctor due to "In college you get to write papers and talk about how great things would be if only you can do this or that. "
That's absurd
First, make a quick mental list of the demographic groups that you perceive to strongly value education, and who have been more successful (as a group) than others because of it.
Now make another mental list of the demographic groups that are reviled and opposed by the white nationalist movement in the United States.
See a correlation?
Perhaps alt-right conservatism is less about blind ethnic hatred than it is about deep-seated jealousy of the attainment those groups have achieved through education.
Because society can fix jealousy.
With education.
Quote: MathExtremistDid you go to college? I did. I never wrote any papers about how great things would be if only you can do this or that. I wrote an operating system, a critique of Chaucer, a military band overture, and an empirical review of algorithms for cartographic label placement.
Yup, I did. And like what I wrote, what you state you wrote appears to be a similar thing. Namely practice for the real world when you leave the campus. That is what so much of college boils down to, people reading stuff others wrote none of it cared about by anyone in the outside world. Now of course the case studies I wrote about taught me a great deal, some of which I probably used sometime, somewhere. But had I went for my MBA (so glad I did not!) then writing more papers would not really have helped me. Eventually you have to go and get things done.
Quote:You've used that "real world" phrase many times before, and you have a sad misunderstanding of the relationship between education and "real world" success. It's easy enough to see the correlation between income and educational attainment, but despite that, you disdain schooling. It's true that unintended consequences always pop up, but the more prepared and educated you are about them, the better you can deal with it. It seems foolish to favor jumping head-first into a new situation, unprepared, without learning about it first.
*sigh* do we have to go thru this yet again? What I disdain is the paper-worship degree culture. Someone has a higher degree so they must be smarter and more qualified. Scott Walker was a semester short of a degree so he had to be unqualified. Get that degree in anything! Get an advanced degree in left-handed puppetry! School is good!
As to jumping in without learning, you have to be more specific. Many people jump in and do fine. Many prepare and fail. Some get analysis paralysis and rarely do anything (this group usually ends up in education or government where it seems to be an asset.)
Quote:But of course you do: you're voting for Trump, the least prepared or qualified presidential candidate ever.
Hardly! The least qualified of our time would be Obama. Zero executive experience and a history of voting "present" so as not to have to take a position. Trump has managed a multi-billion dollar empire with thousands of employees. He had to manage dealing with government local to federal. He had to deal with the mafia. His TV show gives him a good grasp of communicating with the masses. He is no faculty-lounger for sure!
And when you go get those things done, you get them done faster and better and for more income when you're not ignorant. I can't believe you don't seem to comprehend this, but I also can't believe you just wrote "had I went."Quote: AZDuffmanYup, I did. And like what I wrote, what you state you wrote appears to be a similar thing. Namely practice for the real world when you leave the campus. That is what so much of college boils down to, people reading stuff others wrote none of it cared about by anyone in the outside world. Now of course the case studies I wrote about taught me a great deal, some of which I probably used sometime, somewhere. But had I went for my MBA (so glad I did not!) then writing more papers would not really have helped me. Eventually you have to go and get things done.
And then you continue with the false and absurd straw men about how every degree is equivalent and how some people fail even with preparation, implying that preparation is just as good as winging it. The degree isn't what's important, it's actually being educated. But suggesting that being ignorant is just as good as being educated is like saying you and five of your buddies would have a 50-50 shot at beating the Cubs in a 7-game series. Practice and training and hard work doesn't always make perfect but it almost always pays off.
Education is nothing more than practice and training for living your life in the "outside world". If someone wants to wing it, fine, but history has shown they fail far more often than the folks who practice first. You cannot dispute the fact that more education and higher income are positively correlated. So why on earth would anyone favor staying ignorant if income is important to them?
"Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn."
― Benjamin Franklin
I have a great edit for the first line. (-;Quote: terapinedI am bi-racial
Immigrant Chinese side of my extended family, education is very important. Many doctors on my immigrant Chinese side of the family. You don't become a doctor due to "In college you get to write papers and talk about how great things would be if only you can do this or that. "
That's absurd
Some people are both... Like Hillary.Quote: MaxPenI would rather be deplorable than delusional.
If it is close. I'm just wondering if just not saying 1 or 2 of the things he said would have made a big difference. Or if there was one or 2 things he could've said to have changed everything.Quote: ams288Yes, the race is closer than it was two weeks ago. The nonsense with the FBI dampened Dem enthusiasm and that hurt Hillary's poll numbers. But they are creeping back up.
I think I would be panicked, but the early vote numbers from NV are what are really keeping me calm.
As of yesterday, 61K more Dem early votes had been cast in Clark Co. than Republican early votes.
It will take a HUGE GOP turnout on election day to overcome what Dems have already banked in NV. Obama won NV in 2012 by ~68,000 votes.
Follow @RalstonReports on Twitter, no one knows NV better.
Quote: MathExtremistThe degree isn't what's important, it's actually being educated.
WOW! After months of this back and forth we finally, *finally* make some progress. See, your sentence here is what I have been trying to convey!
Quote:But suggesting that being ignorant is just as good as being educated is like saying you and five of your buddies would have a 50-50 shot at beating the Cubs in a 7-game series. Practice and training and hard work doesn't always make perfect but it almost always pays off.
I wasn't aware that an educated person would not know that it would take me and 8 buddies not just 5, but see above.........
Quote:You cannot dispute the fact that more education and higher income are positively correlated. So why on earth would anyone favor staying ignorant if income is important to them?
And at the same time you cannot dispute that having a better degree is all it takes. I've listened to too many MBAs plan to many things that we all knew would fail from the get-go to just take a degree on faith.
Quote: AxelWolfIf it is close. I'm just wondering if just not saying 1 or 2 of the things he said would have made a big difference. Or if there was one or 2 things he could've said to have changed everything.
I think these are the four biggest mistakes Trump has made (in order of oldest to newest when they made headlines in this campaign):
1.) Attack on the "Mexican" judge who was born in Indiana
2.) Attack on the Khan family
3.) Attack on Alicia Machado & his 3-5am Tweet storm about her
4.) "Grab them by the pussy"
If you take away one or two of those mistakes, I can't see the race really changing that much from where we are today.
Of course, he's made many other mistakes (mocking the disabled reporter, several dumb statements about nuclear weapons, etc.).
Quote: ams288Yes, the race is closer than it was two weeks ago. The nonsense with the FBI dampened Dem enthusiasm and that hurt Hillary's poll numbers. But they are creeping back up.
At my Florida early voting place, they are still directing traffic since the Monday before last. I know 'cause I have to go by it everyday.
It is unique since I've been here.
While I would agree with anyone who thinks it is mainly Trump who is driving the turnout, question is, is it "for" or "against."
Quote: MathExtremistThat's exactly my point, but what other part of society is going to step in and help those left-behind workers? There's no profit incentive for a commercial enterprise to do that. Otherwise, corporations would be picking up the cost of college. No, the only way to feasibly help those workers is to retrain them using resources that are redistributed from wealthier taxpayers. It's the government's job to be "for the People," and that means all of them, not just the top 5%.
If you have a landscaper or housekeeper, they're probably not native-born Americans. But they're here, working hard, because they want to be. If native-born Americans were willing to do those jobs for the offered wages, you'd see more of them in those roles. But profit-seeking businesses naturally -- and the GOP argues, correctly -- seek the lowest-cost labor available. So when Trump hires thousands of immigrant laborers to build and clean his buildings, he's being a good businessman, right? It seems two-faced for him to suggest that what he himself is doing is what's killing the economy. That's just bogus.
And it's not that I think native-born Americans should "aspire" to have better jobs. We can't have a whole labor market full of CEOs and doctors. There's nothing wrong with working as a landscaper or housekeeper or unskilled laborer on a construction site. I did unskilled laborer jobs when I was a teenager, but I decided I didn't like those jobs and wanted more for myself. But the bigger picture is that once technologists make robots to do all the unskilled jobs like cleaning hotel rooms or throwing out job-site trash, we're going to need people who know how to fix robots, not clean hotel rooms or throw out job-site trash. Our society needs to be planning for that future, not building a wall. There is no moral difference between native-born and immigrant in that respect. People are just people. We can argue about the details of immigration policy all day long but I think a hard-working immigrant American better represents the American ideal than a lazy native-born American who's angry that harder-working people are "taking" their jobs. Every single human that ever lived in North America can trace his or her ancestry back to some other continent, so this idea of "native-born" vs. "immigrant" is just an arbitrary temporal distinction anyway. Who cares where people were born? I care about what people *do*. Or, in the case of some, what they don't do.
If an American wants to work but doesn't know what to do or how to do it, we should be helping them with education or vocational training, not scorning them for being unemployed. If scorn is deserved anywhere, it should be directed at people who should and could be working but aren't because they just don't want to. But far better than scorn is kindness and education. The education part is obvious. The kindness is because often the variances in the labor market hit people and communities far harder than was expected, and it's just mean to laugh and say "haha sucker, tough for you."
You studied a lot of political theory and are very smart so I'm surprised and saddened that you not only read Thomas Friedman but take him seriously.
However I agree with most of what you've said in this post and the one before it. Especially the point that not everyone can be a doctor. I hate when politicians proclaim that education is the key to eradicating joblessness. Waive a magic wand and give everyone an advanced degree. The toilets still need to be cleaned and we still only need so many doctors.
Except this. Illegal immigration isn't just something that fell out of the sky. It's a product of our approach to the issue, which, like so many things, is designed to cripple the middle and working classes. We could 1) Make the penalty for violating labor laws sufficient to deter hiring illegal labor. 2) Allow legal immigration at desirable levels, so our new workers could compete on equal terms, with full rights. They would also then contribute to the social infrastructure, rather than straining it, especially in working class areas. (Liberals who deny this should spend some time working in LA Unified School District).
I don't think it's hypocritical for Trump to operate according to the incentives government puts forward, and then to say that those incentives create bad results for average Americans. The crap he's pulling at his casino in Vegas is hypocritical, though.
Anyway, microchips destroy some jobs, illegal immigration and trade agreements authored by corporations destroy others. And, when the Bushes and Clintons succeed in their quest to destroy one good job, they often have a multiplier effect.
Joe is a dealer at a casino for 3 years and can't get full time, in spite of fine evaluations. He says, "F this," and takes a union factory or construction job. Or a job working for a mechanic, or as a line cook.
LOL. No he doesn't, because those jobs are not available to him. Even if he was willing to work for $4/hr, employers don't want someone who is here legally and has rights. They want someone who is afraid and helpless, and BOTH parties are happy to supply such workers and allow the employer to break the law to his heart's content. Or they've sent the job overseas, where nobody has rights, and there are no environmental regulations. Or, in the white collar world, they've brought in a guest worker.
So, not only are those jobs gone, now the job of a full time dealer with good pay and benefits is gone. Because that employer knows that workers have so few options.
I wonder how much of recent job creation is just the breaking down of full time jobs into a greater number of part time jobs. Honestly asking. Maybe they account for that ahead of time. But I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't.
So while I agree that technology will take a lot of jobs, it doesn't follow that nothing else is taking jobs.
We will have to deal with the depletion of jobs. It will have to be at least 8 years from now, though, at least at the presidential level. The Clintons have done as much to destroy jobs as anyone. They spearheaded the "end of welfare as we know it," and mass incarceration. Hillary voted to reduce bankruptcy protection. Only for regular people of course. And on and on.
There's no reason to think that these people, who've accepted hundreds of millions in personal payments from the entities responsible for all this, will suddenly support the opposite of what they've always supported.
I hope we've got 8 years before it's a done deal. Things like TPP are almost impossible to undo. In fact, Trump is often ridiculed for suggesting that it happen.
Quote: AxelWolfI have a great edit for the first line. (-;
According to govt forms I fill out
my race is "other"
Anyway I make the comment because I feel I have a bit of a unique outlook on immigration
because
1/2 my extended family are immigrants including my mother
1/2 my extended family long time multi generation USA residents including my father
Quote: terapinedAccording to govt forms I fill out
my race is "other"
Could just put "Native American."
Quote: AZDuffmanCould just put "Native American."
I'm not native American
how does 1/2 Irish American and 1/2 Chinese born in China equals Native American
Which is why you and 5 buddies would have no shot at all, not 50-50. Do I really need to explain this to you? You're unlikely to succeed in the "real world" if you don't have the tools. A successful baseball team has 9 players (plus the bench/bullpen) who have all practiced really hard. An unsuccessful one is you and five of your friends, sitting on your couch during the World Series, griping about how unfair it is that the Cubs are so much better than you are when you've never practiced. Like it should be surprising.Quote: AZDuffmanI wasn't aware that an educated person would not know that it would take me and 8 buddies not just 5, but see above.........
And if you're not griping about how unfair it is that the Cubs are so much better than you are, why are you griping about how unfair it is that educated people make so much more money than uneducated ones? That shouldn't be surprising either. Yet you can't stand the thought that education is important because, in your mind, it turns everyone into liberals. What a quandary!
You're back to focusing on the degree rather than the education, and you're really just talking about variance -- something you should know about by now from this forum. Having an MBA doesn't prevent you from being a bad business manager, just like having an MD doesn't prevent you from being a terrible surgeon. But on the whole, if you had to pick someone to run a business, would it be an MBA or not? If you had to pick someone to remove your appendix, would it be an MD or not?Quote:And at the same time you cannot dispute that having a better degree is all it takes. I've listened to too many MBAs plan to many things that we all knew would fail from the get-go to just take a degree on faith.
"The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet."
-- Damon Runyon
No it wasn't. It's a natural but unintended consequence of capitalism. It wasn't intentional by any stretch of the imagination. There are lots of ways to attempt to address it within the confines of capitalism, but I think we're doing our society a great disservice if we don't spend some time looking at how a post-capitalist world would work as well. The vast, vast majority of what everyone thinks of as corruption or fraud are motivated by greed. Trump can make more money by hiring illegal aliens to build his buildings, he does it. A drug company can make more money by selling a dangerous product and paying the inevitable settlement costs, they do it. A medical screw distributor can make more money by selling counterfeit spinal-implant screws to doctors, they do it. http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article2604214.htmlQuote: RigondeauxExcept this. Illegal immigration isn't just something that fell out of the sky. It's a product of our approach to the issue, which, like so many things, is designed to cripple the middle and working classes.
If you take enough money out of the picture, what would motivate most fraud or corruption? If not everyone actually needed a job in order to have their basic needs met, what would motivate most crime?
I don't know if we have the resources to pull off a full basic income in the U.S. right now, but we will in the future. I also don't know if we have the resources to pull off a full basic-needs redistribution in the U.S. right now, but we will in the future. The question is whether we have the societal willpower to even have the conversation on a meaningful level. I don't see that happening when so many of us are so hateful toward so many of our neighbors. I can only hope the virulent hatred doesn't get in the way of progress toward a society where science and technology fulfill their promises of reducing or eliminating scarcity.
But I do have that hope, and I vehemently oppose anyone who wants to burn it all down just because they're pissed off or can't see a path forward for themselves. There's always a path forward. It just sometimes requires some help from your neighbors.
Quote: MathExtremistI don't know if we have the resources to pull off a full basic income in the U.S. right now, but we will in the future.
If I'm interpreting this statement properly.......this sounds very scary.
Quote: MichaelBluejayHillary's chances of winning at 538 have dropped every single day for weeks now, with the exception of only one day in which she managed to not fall further. She's now down to 64.1%, her lowest since September. And if the daily decline continues, it's gonna be lower than that by election day.
What do you think is going to happen? You have all these posts basically summarizing what is going on with 538's models, but never add anything more than that.
She's ticking back up in the national polls. It takes a couple days for that to filter to the state polls, and all the state polls that have come out today have been from garbage pollsters no one has ever heard from. I predict her chances will be >70% on their model by election day.
Of course, I could be wrong. We need some high quality state polls from Quinnipiac, Monmouth, CNN, Fox News, Marist, NBC/WSJ, etc. to really know where they stand.
Which, the idea that the US would have the resources to provide a basic income, or the idea that we'd actually implement one?Quote: RSIf I'm interpreting this statement properly.......this sounds very scary.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/08/why-arent-reformicons-pushing-a-guaranteed-basic-income/375600/
http://reason.com/archives/2013/11/26/scrap-the-welfare-state-give-people-free
Quote: MathExtremistWhich is why you and 5 buddies would have no shot at all, not 50-50. Do I really need to explain this to you?
No, you need to man up and say, "ooops, I goofed. Of course I know there are 9 men on a baseball team." Excluding pinch hitters, relief pitchers, etc as any normal guy making the point would know any other normal guy gets the point of 9.
Quote:You're back to focusing on the degree rather than the education, and you're really just talking about variance -- something you should know about by now from this forum. Having an MBA doesn't prevent you from being a bad business manager, just like having an MD doesn't prevent you from being a terrible surgeon.
No, you keep focusing on that. I am the one that keeps saying that education means more than college. When I do you say I somehow hate education or something.
Quote: MathExtremist
I don't know if we have the resources to pull off a full basic income in the U.S. right now, but we will in the future.
No, we will not. We might be able to pretend we do, but wealth cannot just be created. Long term, "basic income" means a bunch of serfs living in poverty.
Quote: terapinedI'm not native American
how does 1/2 Irish American and 1/2 Chinese born in China equals Native American
I missed the born in China part.
Sure, I batted .420 in little league but I don't know that a baseball team fields 9 players. The point, which plainly flew far over your head, was that you actually need to field a full team in order to even try to compete. You can't just take a half-assed approach with a few buddies and say "yeah, we'll go beat the Cubs." It's no different than entering the work world. You need a full set of skills and knowledge to succeed, you can't just take a half-assed approach and say "I don't need to study or learn anything, I watched two episodes of The Apprentice, I'm good."Quote: AZDuffmanNo, you need to man up and say, "ooops, I goofed. Of course I know there are 9 men on a baseball team." Excluding pinch hitters, relief pitchers, etc as any normal guy making the point would know any other normal guy gets the point of 9.
Quote: MathExtremistSure, I batted .420 in little league but I don't know that a baseball team fields 9 players. The point, which plainly flew far over your head, was that you actually need to field a full team in order to even try to compete. You can't just take a half-assed approach with a few buddies and say "yeah, we'll go beat the Cubs." It's no different than entering the work world. You need a full set of skills and knowledge to succeed, you can't just take a half-assed approach and say "I don't need to study or learn anything, I watched two episodes of The Apprentice, I'm good."
What I am saying is that perhaps you were not thinking about it as you typed. Maybe doing 2 things at once. I manned up in this thread, didn't realize the member in question was born in China. Hey, it happens.
As to entering the work world, there are many jobs where you just start as labor, get to apprentice, journeyman, then master. Of course you need to learn skills, but many other places than college. I will repeat one of my favorite things about that. The dropout rate alone means nearly half the people entering do not belong there and would be better to seek skills elsewhere.
