2016 Election -- Part II
Poll
 | 57 votes (47.89%) | ||
| | 33 votes (27.73%) | ||
| | 12 votes (10.08%) | ||
| | 10 votes (8.4%) | ||
| | 4 votes (3.36%) | ||
| | 3 votes (2.52%) |
119 members have voted
Can you point to exactly what parts of classical liberalism you don't support? Or are you just using the phrase "classic liberal" as an insult without actually understanding what it means?Quote: BozI'm not expecting you to apologize for putting " facts" out there, but I see you as the classic liberal.
I got in trouble at work once for criticizing a co-worker's chart. I said it was non-orthogonal. She thought it was a personal attack; I was merely referring to the angle of her chart's axes (which was not 90 degrees). "Not 90 degrees" is what non-orthogonal means; she didn't know that and interpreted the phrase as an insult.
Perhaps you're doing the same, treating the word "liberal" as some vague insult when, in reality, it encompasses a political philosophy that you actually support. For example, do you believe in freedom of speech and religion? How about democracy and freedom from religious government? Those are all classic liberal tenets. Are you opposed to them?
Quote: MathExtremist
I got in trouble at work once for criticizing a co-worker's chart. I said it was non-orthogonal. She thought it was a personal attack; I was merely referring to the angle of her chart's axes (which was not 90 degrees). "Not 90 degrees" is what non-orthogonal means; she didn't know that and interpreted the phrase as an insult.
There's gotta be much more background to this. Please have your co-worker join the forum so we can hear her side of the story.
There really wasn't. If I had used "non-perpendicular" instead there wouldn't ever have been an issue at all. The graph in question was a qualitative one -- not quantitative -- but still, the axes were at about 120 degrees (X was horizontal, Y was pointing up and backwards) and I had a hard time interpreting what "moving up" meant. But she was a marketing communications employee with probably an English degree, and I have a comp-sci degree and did a lot of math, so to me graphs of data always have perpendicular axes. But the bottom line is that she didn't know what "orthogonal" meant and complained to her boss, who (because it was a big company) had to follow some convoluted HR dispute-resolution process. We got over it and became work friends, but it was pretty tense for a day or so. But that was over a dozen years ago. I don't have co-workers anymore, just partners and clients.Quote: bobbartopThere's gotta be much more background to this. Please have your co-worker join the forum so we can hear her side of the story.
Quote: bobbartopDon't you know what can happen when thousands of angry people get together and are being egged on by professional agitators? It's a recipe for something bad.
Yeah, they vote for him.
SCOTUS whammy tomorrow at noon
by inserting his man on the court. It
would only be for a year, and less than
that if congress gets involved. All the
legal experts are telling him not to
do it, more harm than good would
happen. I hope he does it, that would
be his legacy. Right now he hasn't got
one.
Quote: EvenBobNow the talk is Obama might pull a
SCOTUS whammy tomorrow at noon
by inserting his man on the court. It
would only be for a year, and less than
that if congress gets involved. All the
legal experts are telling him not to
do it, more harm than good would
happen. I hope he does it, that would
be his legacy. Right now he hasn't got
one.
Judicial vacancies are highest in 65 years.
Taking advice from some Trump supporters we should cooperate just as much as the Republicans did with Obama.
Quote: EvenBobNow the talk is Obama might pull a
SCOTUS whammy tomorrow at noon
by inserting his man on the court.
Not gonna happen.
Is this an expressiion of approval for Washington's contracting a couple of billion each for a couple of presidential airplanes? Is it similar approval for contracts for the F-35's and their accompanying problems? At least it cannot be labeled crony capitalism.Quote: beachbumbabsYour net worth would be up 10%, maybe more, if Hillary were elected, too, because Trump has severely depressed several stocks with his selective corporate tweets and meddling (see Boeing and Lockheed Martin ).
Quote: EvenBobNow the talk is Obama might pull a
SCOTUS whammy tomorrow at noon
by inserting his man on the court. It
would only be for a year, and less than
that if congress gets involved. All the
legal experts are telling him not to
do it, more harm than good would
happen. I hope he does it, that would
be his legacy. Right now he hasn't got
one.
lol What an idiot.
Quote: OnceDearTrump will reveal that he has not only conducted his Very Very Brilliant own assessment of the situation, but that he has been provided with Very Very conclusive proof that the Russians didn't do it. . . By his trusted friends in another country, which has researched with complete independence from the US intelligence community. His new trusted advisors, also trusted by Putin.
It's the sort of stunt that he'd pull without even a hint of irony. You read it here first.
Well, I was right. I doubt anyone could dispute I was right:
Quote: RealDonald trump tweetJulian Assange said "a 14 year old could have hacked Podesta" - why was DNC so careless? Also said Russians did not give him the info!
So, there it is straight from trump's own head. He trusts Assange enough to quote him as a source of Security Intel.
You couldn't make this up. It's incredible that Trump can say this with a straight face and he still doesn't get effectively called out !!!!!
Quote: OnceDearSo, there it is straight from trump's own head. He trusts Assange enough to quote him as a source of Security Intel.
You couldn't make this up. It's incredible that Trump can say this with a straight face and he still doesn't get effectively called out !!!!!
And when confronted with this: Trumpsters will try to pivot to talking about Hillary's emails. Happens every time.
Donald truly is "Putin's puppet."
Quote: ams288And when confronted with this: Trumpsters will try to pivot to talking about Hillary's emails. Happens every time.
Donald truly is "Putin's puppet."
Everyone is Putin's puppet. If you understand Soviet history and their true inner workings. Only the most brilliant, and ruthless, get to be in Putin's position. Every communist party on the globe takes its orders from Moscow. Including China. The Russians are also absolute masters of disinformation.
But everyone has a boss, including Putin. His bosses live in London and New York.
Quote: OnceDearWell, I was right. I doubt anyone could dispute I was right:
So, there it is straight from trump's own head. He trusts Assange enough to quote him as a source of Security Intel.
You couldn't make this up. It's incredible that Trump can say this with a straight face and he still doesn't get effectively called out !!!!!
The reason you can be absolutely positive that the Russians were not involved is because our people say they were. Until you accept that principle you'll never understand how the world works.
Quote: bobbartopThe reason you can be absolutely positive that the Russians were not involved is because our people say they were. Until you accept that principle you'll never understand how the world works.
More nonsense.
Is that what you read in the National Enquirer?
Our people also say that drinking ethylene glycol can kill you.Quote: bobbartopThe reason you can be absolutely positive that the Russians were not involved is because our people say they were. Until you accept that principle you'll never understand how the world works.
https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/ershdb/emergencyresponsecard_29750031.html
Why don't you tell us how the world works after having a few Prestone cocktails? I hear it goes well with a splash of club soda.
Quote: MrVIrony is delicious.
Ivanka Trump is an immigrant?
(Seriously - Ivanka will be taking over the First Lady duties. Melania is staying in NYC).
"Tell Vlad after the election I can be flexible."Quote: ams288Donald truly is "Putin's puppet."
For people who are so worried about the sanctity of our political computers, here are a couple of cases that are real and that two states have experienced, apparently with no consequences. How come nobody is concerned when so many precincts in one of the largest cities are illegitimate?Quote: MathExtremistOur people also say that drinking ethylene glycol can kill you.
https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/ershdb/emergencyresponsecard_29750031.html
Why don't you tell us how the world works after having a few Prestone cocktails? I hear it goes well with a splash of club soda.
Half of Detroit votes may be ineligible for recount
Chad Livengood and Joel Kurth , The Detroit News Published 3:02 p.m. ET Dec. 5, 2016 | Updated 2:54 p.m. ET Dec. 6, 2016
One-third of precincts in Wayne County could be disqualified from an unprecedented statewide recount of presidential election results because of problems with ballots. Michigan’s largest county voted overwhelmingly for Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton, but officials couldn’t reconcile vote totals for 610 of 1,680 precincts during a countywide canvass of vote results late last month.
Most of those are in heavily Democratic Detroit, where the number of ballots in precinct poll books did not match those of voting machine printout reports in 59 percent of precincts, 392 of 662. According to state law, precincts whose poll books don’t match with ballots can’t be recounted. If that happens, original election results stand.
By Andrew Blake - The Washington Times - Friday, December 9, 2016
Georgia’s top election official this week accused the U.S. Department of Homeland Security of trying to hack a computer network containing the state’s voter registration database.
Brian Kemp, Georgia’s secretary of state, demanded information about the alleged intrusion attempt in a letter sent Thursday to Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson. “On Nov. 15, an IP address associated with the Department of Homeland Security made an unsuccessful attempt to penetrate the Georgia Secretary of State’s firewall. I am writing you to ask whether DHS was aware of this attempt and, if so, why DHS was attempting to breach our firewall,” Mr. Kemp wrote.
“At no time has my office agreed to or permitted DHS to conduct penetration testing or security scans of our network,” he added. “Moreover, your department has not contacted my office since this unsuccessful incident to alert us of any security event that would require testing or scanning of our network. This is especially odd and concerning since I serve on the Election Cyber Security Working Group that your office created.”
Indeed, Mr. Kemp was appointed by the nonpartisan National Association of Secretaries of State earlier this year to serve as an adviser for a DHS working group tasked with helping states manage cyber risks to their election and voting systems prior to the Nov. 8 election. Despite holding that role, however, Georgia was one of only two states in the country that refused assistance offered by DHS in the run-up to last month’s race, Cyberscoop reported, notwithstanding heightened concerns from coast to coast at the time over the possibility of the contest being sidelined by a cyberattack.
Quote: SanchoPanzaHalf of Detroit votes may be ineligible for recount
Chad Livengood and Joel Kurth , The Detroit News Published 3:02 p.m. ET Dec. 5, 2016 | Updated 2:54 p.m. ET Dec. 6, 2016
One-third of precincts in Wayne County could be disqualified from an unprecedented statewide recount of presidential election results because of problems with ballots. Michigan’s largest county voted overwhelmingly for Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton, but officials couldn’t reconcile vote totals for 610 of 1,680 precincts during a countywide canvass of vote results late last month.
Most of those are in heavily Democratic Detroit, where the number of ballots in precinct poll books did not match those of voting machine printout reports in 59 percent of precincts, 392 of 662. According to state law, precincts whose poll books don’t match with ballots can’t be recounted. If that happens, original election results stand.
As a Michigander, I heard a lot about this.
It's a stupid law that prevents anyone from being able to recount the precincts where a recount should actually be necessary...
All voting in Michigan is done on paper ballots, and when you are done you feed them into the machine yourself.
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/12/05/recount-unrecountable/95007392/
Quote:He blamed the discrepancies on the city’s decade-old voting machines, saying 87 optical scanners broke on Election Day. Many jammed when voters fed ballots into scanners, which can result in erroneous vote counts if ballots are inserted multiple times. Poll workers are supposed to adjust counters to reflect a single vote but in many cases failed to do so, causing the discrepancies, Baxter said.
If only our Republican state wide government was actually concerned about fixing these problems in Detroit. But they were too busy trying to pass Voter ID in the lame duck (thankfully that went down in flames).
"Repeal and replace" is a statement, not a plan.
I take an expensive medication (~$800/month) and I will lose my healthcare at the end of 2017. So I'm just gonna have to pay for that out of pocket in an unregulated market?
I'll sell it to you for $500.Quote: gamerfreakAny repubs here want to explain what they expect to happen with healthcare?
"Repeal and replace" is a statement, not a plan.
I take an expensive medication (~$800/month) and I will lose my healthcare at the end of 2017. So I'm just gonna have to pay for that out of pocket in an unregulated market?
Quote: gamerfreakI take an expensive medication (~$800/month) and I will lose my healthcare at the end of 2017. So I'm just gonna have to pay for that out of pocket in an unregulated market?
Saw this line in the news.
"Make America Sick Again."
Quote: rxwineSaw this line in the news.
"Make America Sick Again."
Chuck Schumer is using it.
Quote: AxelWolfI'll sell it to you for $500.
Obamacare is cheaper.
This is the part where you find out that the man behind the curtain is just madly pulling on levers, hoping something good happens. There is no plan. Everybody knows there's no plan, even the GOP House members who are vehemently anti-ACA. They don't even know if they want to repeal and replace all at once or repeal "now" but delay the implementation of that repeal until they have a replacement plan, possibly years into the future.Quote: gamerfreakAny repubs here want to explain what they expect to happen with healthcare?
"Repeal and replace" is a statement, not a plan.
I take an expensive medication (~$800/month) and I will lose my healthcare at the end of 2017. So I'm just gonna have to pay for that out of pocket in an unregulated market?
Pick one: guaranteed coverage for pre-existing conditions, or no individual mandate requirement. You can't have both unless you *raise taxes* (which is what the mandate is anyway, mostly). The economics simply do not work, and anyone who understands the point of mutual insurance pools already gets this. If there aren't enough young healthy people in the pool to subsidize the old sick ones, the costs to cover the old sick ones is too high and insurance companies simply stop trying. But if Congress doesn't even signal what it's going to do soon, that market uncertainty makes it even less palatable for insurers to play in the space. It's no longer a good business to be in.
And what's worse is that even GOP voters don't want Congress to do what it's planning. Look at this WaPo poll today:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/01/04/poll-voters-in-trump-states-want-democrats-to-keep-him-in-check/?utm_term=.ff69426707dc
Nobody wants their health coverage taken away. The GOP thinks they can cut all the funding and keep the coverage anyway? Nonsense. That's exactly the opposite of the anti-deficit message they've been pushing for so long. And people thought Obama increased the deficit? That'll be a rounding error compared to what Trump will unleash. Tax cuts, lower revenues, more spending on a more convoluted and expensive way to achieve what Obamacare does with less money. The cheapest way would be single-payer / Medicare-for-all, but economic efficiency doesn't matter when someone's accused a policy of "socialism." Socialism in the U.S.? Heaven forbid.Quote: articleYet when quizzed, with language (via pollster Geoff Garin) that couched liberal ideas fairly positively, voters rejected most of the GOP Congress's stated priorities. There was moderate opposition to Trump and Congress's undoing environmental regulations on power plant emissions but sky-high opposition to health-care cuts. Asked whether they would “replace Medicare with private insurance for seniors that costs two thousand dollars more per year on average,” 77 percent said no. Asked whether they would “cut funding for Medicaid, which states use to provide health coverage for low-income individuals and for nursing home care for seniors and the disabled,” 72 percent said no.
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Nothing to see here.
Quote: MathExtremistThis is the part where you find out that the man behind the curtain is just madly pulling on levers, hoping something good happens. There is no plan.
I think the hardliners want to go for healthcare for those who can afford it, then declare victory, because there won't need to be any taxes.
They won't come out and say it directly.
Heck, I would take it from education even. I think healthcare has higher priority. I wonder how much that would bring in?
Quote: MathExtremistExcept education correlates with lower healthcare costs. An uninformed populace tends to consume medical services less efficiently than educated people do. Just look at the cost of the anti-vaccine mess.
This. So much this. I feel like so many conservatives do not consider unintended consequences, only a tax dollar amount.
I'm a FF/EMT and I'd say close to 90% of medical calls are to impoverished areas.
Quote: MrVThe poor use the E.R. for most anything.
This is mostly due to the fact they can't utilize primary care. Another unintended consequence of private healthcare.
"South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham, a regular critic of Trump who said in December he’ll travel to Eastern Europe to investigate Russian election interference, warned Americans not to be “duped” by Assange, whom he blasted as an “accused rapist on the run.”"
If Lindsey Graham said it, that's good enough for me, the opposite must be true. Lindsey Graham is a lying pos.
Quote: bobbartopThis is reason enough to believe Julian Assange.
"South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham, a regular critic of Trump who said in December he’ll travel to Eastern Europe to investigate Russian election interference, warned Americans not to be “duped” by Assange, whom he blasted as an “accused rapist on the run.”"
If Lindsey Graham said it, that's good enough for me, the opposite must be true. Lindsey Graham is a lying pos.
As someone who has known Lindsay Graham since 1994, I would have to say you're incorrect about Lindsay Graham. He wasn't my first choice for President in the primary, but he's not a liar, either. OTOH, there was a recent study of Trump during the campaign; over an 8 week period, he told a lie every 2.5 minutes. Now, THAT'S lying.
Quote: beachbumbabsAs someone who has known Lindsay Graham since 1994, I would have to say you're incorrect about Lindsay Graham. He wasn't my first choice for President in the primary, but he's not a liar, either. OTOH, there was a recent study of Trump during the campaign; over an 8 week period, he told a lie every 2.5 minutes. Now, THAT'S lying.
I call 1000% BS on that actually being true.
Quote:According to POLITICO’s five-day analysis, Trump averaged about one falsehood every three minutes and 15 seconds over nearly five hours of remarks
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/2016-donald-trump-fact-check-week-214287
According to another report one of the debates had him at 2.5 minutes.
Quote: RSQuote: beachbumbabsAs someone who has known Lindsay Graham since 1994, I would have to say you're incorrect about Lindsay Graham. He wasn't my first choice for President in the primary, but he's not a liar, either. OTOH, there was a recent study of Trump during the campaign; over an 8 week period, he told a lie every 2.5 minutes. Now, THAT'S lying.
I call 1000% BS on that actually being true.
That's what happens when you have your head buried deep in the sand...
Quote: gamerfreakAny repubs here want to explain what they expect to happen with healthcare?
"Repeal and replace" is a statement, not a plan.
I take an expensive medication (~$800/month) and I will lose my healthcare at the end of 2017. So I'm just gonna have to pay for that out of pocket in an unregulated market?
I asked a specific, and very legitimate question to the republicans among us and got zip.
So if you guys don't wanna talk about facts, can you at least admit your opinions are based on fairytails and the misery of others?
Quote: gamerfreakI asked a specific, and very legitimate question to the republicans among us and got zip.
So if you guys don't wanna talk about facts, can you at least admit your opinions are based on fairytails and the misery of others?
I need more info. Do you have a job that gives you health insurance as a benefit? If not, are you incapable of finding such a job? Or just don't want to because you would prefer that someone else subsidize your health care needs?
Quote: SOOPOOI need more info. Do you have a job that gives you health insurance as a benefit? If not, are you incapable of finding such a job?
So in your view, people who are "incapable of finding" a job that gives health insurance benefits deserve to pay $800/mo for prescriptions?
Is that really what you're about to argue?
Quote:Or just don't want to because you would prefer that someone else subsidize your health care needs?
So it's a binary choice between
"incapable of finding a job" that provides health benefits
or
"prefer someone else subsidizes" their heath care
HUH?!?!??
Quote: gamerfreakI asked a specific, and very legitimate question to the republicans among us and got zip.
Cuz you asked republicans. While I know there's a share of righties, and several more that are registered rep., I can't remember many identifying AS rep., save for maybe AZD and he's not here often. SOOPOO is perhaps inhaling to drop a gem, but I'll add my $0.02 to hold you over until then...
You're f#$%ed. And though I may be laughing about it, I with my fed job and 5,000 choices in employer subsidized healthcare is f#$%ed, too.
Live hard and die fast. You can't afford not to.
Quote: ams288So in your view, people who are "incapable of finding" a job that gives health insurance benefits deserve to pay $800/mo for prescriptions?
Is that really what you're about to argue?
So it's a binary choice between
"incapable of finding a job" that provides health benefits
or
"prefer someone else subsidizes" their heath care
HUH?!?!??
Part of ones choice during a job search should include the benefits of each job.
If one can work at Walmart, he/she can get employer sponsored healthcare. If he/she can't work at Walmart, they probably already qualify for medicare.
If one is a lazy SOB or want to get paid more than Walmart pays in terms of dollars, at the cost of healthcare, then that is a choice one should be able to make, and they should be able to make that choice without having to consider your $800 pills, like obama makes them do in the laws current form.
Quote: ams288Quote: RSQuote: beachbumbabsAs someone who has known Lindsay Graham since 1994, I would have to say you're incorrect about Lindsay Graham. He wasn't my first choice for President in the primary, but he's not a liar, either. OTOH, there was a recent study of Trump during the campaign; over an 8 week period, he told a lie every 2.5 minutes. Now, THAT'S lying.
I call 1000% BS on that actually being true.
That's what happens when you have your head buried deep in the sand...
That's 32,256 lies in a little under 2 months, or 576 per day.
Quote: gamerfreakI asked a specific, and very legitimate question to the republicans among us and got zip.
So if you guys don't wanna talk about facts, can you at least admit your opinions are based on fairytails and the misery of others?
I am a Republican. I got zip. Zero. Nada. for you. I think it's completely bogus to repeal Obamacare. Sorry.
to Obamacare. He did it a couple of times.
The press is appalled (oh no) at how unpresidential
this is. They still don't get it. Trump got elected
by doing everything differently than anybody has
done in the past. Why on earth do they think he's
going to be a typical president now that he's been
elected. I love it, hope he keeps it up.
