Ask the dealer
March 10th, 2010 at 8:49:38 AM
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How do you keep an idiot in suspense?Quote: AZDuffman...and the stupidest question that was asked.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
March 10th, 2010 at 9:00:56 AM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearHow do you keep an idiot in suspense?Quote: AZDuffman...and the stupidest question that was asked.
From high school science.......
I believe you need to find a liquid that has a higher specific gravity than the density of said idiot. ;-)
| forgot to add that you have to drop the idiot into the liquid
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
March 10th, 2010 at 9:13:04 AM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearHow do you keep an idiot in suspense?Quote: AZDuffman...and the stupidest question that was asked.
I'll take this as "interest" and post the story later today. My boss actually gave me a project to do!
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
March 10th, 2010 at 10:05:59 AM
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Yeah, I wasn't trying to 'stir the pot', or solicit other stupid sayings or questions.Quote: AZDuffmanI'll take this as "interest" and post the story later today. My boss actually gave me a project to do!Quote: DJTeddyBearHow do you keep an idiot in suspense?Quote: AZDuffman...and the stupidest question that was asked.
I was merely saying that you posted a cliff-hanger, and you've piqued my interest, all right!
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
March 10th, 2010 at 10:58:38 AM
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Glad everybody seems to be interested. :-)
So anyways, with table games coming the local casino had open interviews for dealers. They need 300-400 or so, rumor has it 2-3,000 people showed up to interview. Note I said "interview" because there was not one table for an "audition." In fact when I mentioned I dealt part time they took notice but didn't get very excited. It was a little weird in some ways, but as far as open interviews go I will give them credit for a bang-up job.
The whole thing started about 11:00 so to beat the crowds I got there by 11:05. Step one was to take a number, just like at the deli. I thought it would be a long wait based on that. There were plenty of people working the room and keeping it lively. Asking who had been to the casino, some trivia contests for trinkets, and introduction of a state gaming borad officer who was in the room, no idea if he was required or was just to answer gaming reg questions since this is all so new. Within 15-20 minutes I was called for step one.
Step one was to see if you could do simple math. If you could add to 22 you could pass. Seriously, this was the kind of quiz I got in second grade. There were only five problems and it was the kind of test that was so simple you rechecked your answers to be sure you didn't do something stupid.
They then handed your "application" back and took you to room 2 if you made it. Here a very nice lady asked me some "service" related questions. Now the secret here was you had to be "on." They were testing personality not only by what the answer was, but byhow personable you answered it. There were just 2-3 questions, one of which was the one I used Croupier's canned answers to. She then directed me to sit in another room and be talked to by another person.
Here I sat down and a guy next to me said he found the "test" to be "insulting" in how simple it was. I replied, yup, but people fail it.
I got called in minutes again. This interview was a little more about what kind of supervision you work best under, as well as a very little on what games you prefer to learn. At the end he gives me a ticket for yet another room.
In the final room we were told, "YOU ARE ACCEPTED!" They told us all the benefits and cool things, and some Q and A.
Clearly many people were knowlegable based on asking about toke-splits and the like. But the dumbest question I ever heard not just there but any new employee oritentation..........................
"I heard there is some organization that looks out for the dealer interests. Is that true?"
Translation: "Is there a union to look out for me?"
So anyways, with table games coming the local casino had open interviews for dealers. They need 300-400 or so, rumor has it 2-3,000 people showed up to interview. Note I said "interview" because there was not one table for an "audition." In fact when I mentioned I dealt part time they took notice but didn't get very excited. It was a little weird in some ways, but as far as open interviews go I will give them credit for a bang-up job.
The whole thing started about 11:00 so to beat the crowds I got there by 11:05. Step one was to take a number, just like at the deli. I thought it would be a long wait based on that. There were plenty of people working the room and keeping it lively. Asking who had been to the casino, some trivia contests for trinkets, and introduction of a state gaming borad officer who was in the room, no idea if he was required or was just to answer gaming reg questions since this is all so new. Within 15-20 minutes I was called for step one.
Step one was to see if you could do simple math. If you could add to 22 you could pass. Seriously, this was the kind of quiz I got in second grade. There were only five problems and it was the kind of test that was so simple you rechecked your answers to be sure you didn't do something stupid.
They then handed your "application" back and took you to room 2 if you made it. Here a very nice lady asked me some "service" related questions. Now the secret here was you had to be "on." They were testing personality not only by what the answer was, but byhow personable you answered it. There were just 2-3 questions, one of which was the one I used Croupier's canned answers to. She then directed me to sit in another room and be talked to by another person.
Here I sat down and a guy next to me said he found the "test" to be "insulting" in how simple it was. I replied, yup, but people fail it.
I got called in minutes again. This interview was a little more about what kind of supervision you work best under, as well as a very little on what games you prefer to learn. At the end he gives me a ticket for yet another room.
In the final room we were told, "YOU ARE ACCEPTED!" They told us all the benefits and cool things, and some Q and A.
Clearly many people were knowlegable based on asking about toke-splits and the like. But the dumbest question I ever heard not just there but any new employee oritentation..........................
"I heard there is some organization that looks out for the dealer interests. Is that true?"
Translation: "Is there a union to look out for me?"
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
March 10th, 2010 at 11:28:34 AM
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Quote: AZDuffmanGlad everybody seems to be interested. :-)
There were just 2-3 questions, one of which was the one I used Croupier's canned answers to.
Glad I could help. What was the wuestion if you dont mind me asking. I would love to be able to work in the US, but getting a Visa is too much hard work for me at the moment, hence why I am at Uni as well as working. Nice to have an insight into the way it works if I do get over.
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March 10th, 2010 at 11:42:27 AM
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Quote: CroupierQuote: AZDuffmanGlad everybody seems to be interested. :-)
There were just 2-3 questions, one of which was the one I used Croupier's canned answers to.
Glad I could help. What was the wuestion if you dont mind me asking. I would love to be able to work in the US, but getting a Visa is too much hard work for me at the moment, hence why I am at Uni as well as working. Nice to have an insight into the way it works if I do get over.
One girl asked, "I heard there is some group that looks out for the interests of the deales, do you know anything about that?"
Now, you might have to have lived in the USA to understand the connotation of "is there a union?" But the execs did instantly. And having just defeated an organizing drive, they were in no mood to have another one. Maybe she was just naive.
Here is a question for you. Do you have restrictions where you can gamble? I was told that dealer level as well as "key" employees may not gamble even a nickel slot in the state here. That's the law.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
March 10th, 2010 at 12:18:03 PM
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The law in the UK allows us to gamble at any casino we want to, but have to declare on entry we are Dealers (we still use membership for casinos here. There are only 2 or 3 "open door" casinos in the country and can be refused entry at discretion of the management). Company policy dictates you cannot gamble anywhere owned by the company you work for. Even when you leave the employ of a company, you cannot gamble at any company casino for 2 years, and 5 years at the place you worked. Although you pretty much never get to gamble in the place you worked due to management discretion.
Union involvement isnt really a major factor over here, except in big companies such as British Airways. A gambling workers union is non existant to my knowledge.
I was also curious about the question they asked where you gave my canned answers.
Union involvement isnt really a major factor over here, except in big companies such as British Airways. A gambling workers union is non existant to my knowledge.
I was also curious about the question they asked where you gave my canned answers.
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March 10th, 2010 at 12:29:19 PM
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Quote: Croupier
I was also curious about the question they asked where you gave my canned answers.
Oh, sorry I misunderstood.
They asked me how you handle an irate customer and I used the example, "Well, you have to feel them out. If they are POed at cards and ask if you always get 20 you can say, 'no, sometime's I get balackjack," and see how they react. You will know in about 2 seconds if you defused them or not."
They seemed to like the combination of my customer service experience and the relevant example.
Hey, another question. How do they work your employee dining room? This place says it is free soft drinks, salads, and I think some deserts. $2USD if you want the "hot line."
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
March 10th, 2010 at 12:33:59 PM
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As we are not allowed to leave company premises once our shift has started, where I work there is an allowance £1.50 per day that is given for food. This means a hot meal from a choice of around 3, or a salad, fresh fruit always available, all soft and hot drinks, and sometimes even a dessert is technically free. We could bring our own food and get paid the money, but I'd rather take the meals, even thought the quality is sometimes poor at best, as I probably drink my weight in coffee which more than makes up for the food.
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March 10th, 2010 at 1:30:30 PM
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Back in 1978, Gov. Kean was speaking at the college I was attending. This was either right before, or right after the vote that finally got casinos in AC approved.Quote: AZDuffmanHere is a question for you. Do you have restrictions where you can gamble? I was told that dealer level as well as "key" employees may not gamble even a nickel slot in the state here. That's the law.
After the speach, I followed him and I managed to slip into an elevator with him, his aides, and some undercover state troopers. I could tell by their stares that all of them were wondering how I managed to get in the elevator, and wondering if I was dangerous.
Taking the opportunity, I asked him if there would be any restrictions on NJ residents or casino employees from gambling.
He looked at me like it was the stupidest question he ever heard, but did answer, "No."
Turns out that wasn't the right answer. Or things changed afterwards.
As I understand it, all employees, even the hotel employees, are barred from their casino, and other casinos in the company. The CAN play elsewhere.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
March 10th, 2010 at 2:36:58 PM
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In Ontario, dealers at the OLG run casinos can only play at the non-owned casinos (Rama, Fallsview, Niagara, Windsor). Dealers at the non-owned casinos cannot play at their own casino (Niagara and Fallsview are owned by one party and effectively work at the same place).
Funny thing is that consultants working for OLG can play at OLG casinos.
Funny thing is that consultants working for OLG can play at OLG casinos.
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You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
March 10th, 2010 at 2:40:05 PM
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I dont know the rules for Vegas, but I can remember ending up playing [poker] at the same table as a dealer who wasdealing to me earlier. This was at O'Sheas (classed as a subdivision of the Flamingo if I remember) so owned by Harrahs. Didnt think to ask about ti at the time.
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March 10th, 2010 at 2:42:21 PM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearBack in 1978, Gov. Kean was speaking at the college I was attending. This was either right before, or right after the vote that finally got casinos in AC approved.Quote: AZDuffmanHere is a question for you. Do you have restrictions where you can gamble? I was told that dealer level as well as "key" employees may not gamble even a nickel slot in the state here. That's the law.
After the speach, I followed him and I managed to slip into an elevator with him, his aides, and some undercover state troopers. I could tell by their stares that all of them were wondering how I managed to get in the elevator, and wondering if I was dangerous.
Taking the opportunity, I asked him if there would be any restrictions on NJ residents or casino employees from gambling.
He looked at me like it was the stupidest question he ever heard, but did answer, "No."
Turns out that wasn't the right answer. Or things changed afterwards.
As I understand it, all employees, even the hotel employees, are barred from their casino, and other casinos in the company. The CAN play elsewhere.
In fairness to Gov. Kean, he was merely a State Assemblyman for a weak Republican Party in 1978 and wouldn't be Governor until January of 1982. I'm surprised he had any security at all. Most Assemblymen in NJ drive their own cars when they come to visit us on the radio.
I've spoken to him several times, but never about gaming. I last saw him last Spring. One of the genuinely good guys out there.
March 10th, 2010 at 2:59:35 PM
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Hmmm.....
Obviously I've got some cloudy memory.
I just looked up who was Governor at the time. Yeah, I meant Byrne.
Obviously I've got some cloudy memory.
I just looked up who was Governor at the time. Yeah, I meant Byrne.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
March 10th, 2010 at 3:45:30 PM
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Quote: boymimboIn Ontario, dealers at the OLG run casinos can only play at the non-owned casinos (Rama, Fallsview, Niagara, Windsor). Dealers at the non-owned casinos cannot play at their own casino (Niagara and Fallsview are owned by one party and effectively work at the same place).
Funny thing is that consultants working for OLG can play at OLG casinos.
Here is another one on that line. When I was at the Atlantis in the Bahamas (one week before the new towers opened) there was a big sign in front. As a reader I read this stuff. So everyone else was suprised when I told them that Bahamian Nationals were *not* allowed to gamble in the casino. But there it was, clear as day.
Personally I can see the logic about not playing in your own house. The appearance of impropriety is simply not worth it. But to say I can't gamble anywhere in the state at all is a little nanny-state to me.
So I will just keep going to Wheeling to play.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
March 10th, 2010 at 8:02:45 PM
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Quote: AZDuffmanWhen I was at the Atlantis in the Bahamas (one week before the new towers opened) there was a big sign in front. As a reader I read this stuff. So everyone else was suprised when I told them that Bahamian Nationals were *not* allowed to gamble in the casino. But there it was, clear as day.
The first time I visited Nassau on a cruise ship, back in 1976, we went to a show at what was then called the British Casino. It may still be there but with a different name. The taxi driver told us that Bahamians were not allowed in the casinos there. I later have formed the impression that such policies are not uncommon in localities where they strictly are interested in extracting funds from foreign visitors without risking detrimental impact on their citizens' finances. When I was in casinos in Egypt, I learned that Egyptians were similarly barred from the gaming. There were players from other Arab countries, presumably Muslims, so religion was apparently not the issue, though I will leave that to someone who knows more about the culture. However, the Egyptian nationals with whom I worked were unaware that there were gambling casinos hidden in some of the tourist hotels. To them, the word "casino" just had its more historic (I think) meaning of a public gathering place, such as a cafe.
March 10th, 2010 at 8:16:34 PM
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I can confirm that I was in the Bahamas in 1995, and at the time they indeed had a policy that the locals could not even enter the casinos unless for work. If the policy changed since then, I'm not aware of it.
Around 2002 I went to Curacao, which had a similar policy. There the locals could only enter an island casino I think five times a month. Each casino had somebody at the door to ask for ID, and if you were a local I think they recorded your name in a log. I was told you could get around that rule by limiting yourself to each casino five times a month, because they didn't compare lists.
About Vegas, most casino employees I know are not allowed to gamble in their own casino, but are welcome to gamble elsewhere.
Around 2002 I went to Curacao, which had a similar policy. There the locals could only enter an island casino I think five times a month. Each casino had somebody at the door to ask for ID, and if you were a local I think they recorded your name in a log. I was told you could get around that rule by limiting yourself to each casino five times a month, because they didn't compare lists.
About Vegas, most casino employees I know are not allowed to gamble in their own casino, but are welcome to gamble elsewhere.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
March 10th, 2010 at 8:43:53 PM
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I was in Curacao last November and had a chance to play in five of the casinos (chasing my souvenir chips, as I do.) No one asked to see any ID as I entered any of them, but I suppose I may have looked much more like a Caribbean tourist than a local.
Just curious about this point: are employees permitted to gamble at other properties within the same corporation?
Just curious about this point: are employees permitted to gamble at other properties within the same corporation?
March 11th, 2010 at 2:46:03 AM
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Quote: Doc
Just curious about this point: are employees permitted to gamble at other properties within the same corporation?
In the UK, No. But this is Company Policy, not law. As for Vegas, I dont have a clue, as like I said I ended up playing poker with a guy that had been dealing poker to me earlier.
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March 11th, 2010 at 2:47:23 AM
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This was at O'Sheas so Harrah's might be lenient about it, or may have rules regarding poker.
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March 24th, 2010 at 10:46:05 AM
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I used to work in Primm when MGM still owned it and you could gamble at any MGM property including your own, but you could never gamble on a progressive. They didn't want their employees winning a big jackpot on their own property. I then went to work at the Luxor which was still owned by Mandalay and you could gamble on any property they owned with no restrictions. Did you know however when you work for a casino you cannot have any visible tattoo's or facial hair. Some would allow mustaches, but none would allow beards.
March 24th, 2010 at 10:50:16 AM
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WE have similar rules regarding tatoos, but facial hair is allowed if not encouraged. If you do not have a beard of two week sgrowth, then you have to be cleans shaven.
Are you still working for the Luxor?
Are you still working for the Luxor?
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March 24th, 2010 at 11:17:39 AM
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Quote: CroupierWE have similar rules regarding tatoos, but facial hair is allowed if not encouraged. If you do not have a beard of two week sgrowth, then you have to be cleans shaven.
This begs one to ask.... "How does one start a beard then, if one does not already have one?"
Do you declare you are starting one, and you get a two week 'pass', or do you take a 2 week holiday and come back with your two week growth?
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
March 24th, 2010 at 11:25:36 AM
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The two week holiday way. Even then they can tell you to shave if it looks unsightly. I for example can not shave for two weeks, and still not grom a decent beard.
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March 24th, 2010 at 1:24:08 PM
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Quote: CroupierWE have similar rules regarding tatoos, but facial hair is allowed if not encouraged. If you do not have a beard of two week sgrowth, then you have to be cleans shaven.
Are you still working for the Luxor?
I left there back in 2002. Loved it but got a better money offer.
March 26th, 2010 at 12:20:13 AM
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Here's a question for the dealer and anyone interested in ethics: Should a player correct the dealer when the dealer has paid the player erroneously? During a recent game at the El Cortez, the dealer paid me for a blackjack, forgot to clear the cards, then paid me again for the blackjack when he paid the other bets on the table. I didn't speak up and neither did anyone else.
It bothered me a little afterward, but I had two thoughts that might have justified taking the money. 1) If he had simply asked if he had paid me, I would have said yes, but he did not (maybe to save face) 2) He's obligated to correct any mistakes, while as a player I am not.
Any thoughts?
It bothered me a little afterward, but I had two thoughts that might have justified taking the money. 1) If he had simply asked if he had paid me, I would have said yes, but he did not (maybe to save face) 2) He's obligated to correct any mistakes, while as a player I am not.
Any thoughts?
March 26th, 2010 at 2:07:36 AM
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I would guess most of the people here will say that you should correct them. Personally, if I can get away with it I will. This means, like when I'm playing craps, if I get slightly overpaid and I don't look at it oddly for a moment and just take it - I won't say anything. On the other hand, if I look at it for a moment... make a weird face... then take it I'll give it back/correct them.
If they overpay me, I take/keep it, then if they ask for some back I'll give it back (of course). In your case, that kind of a mistake is ridiculously obvious to anyone looking/watching the game and I wouldn't even think about it. In my opinion, it's their job to pay you correctly. If they pay you incorrectly, it's on them (on you if they underpay).
If they overpay me, I take/keep it, then if they ask for some back I'll give it back (of course). In your case, that kind of a mistake is ridiculously obvious to anyone looking/watching the game and I wouldn't even think about it. In my opinion, it's their job to pay you correctly. If they pay you incorrectly, it's on them (on you if they underpay).
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
March 26th, 2010 at 5:34:24 AM
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If a cashier makes an error such as forgetting to ring something up, I take it. If the cashier gives me too much change, I correct her - because she will be short at the end of the day.
A dealer that pays too much doesn't have a paper trail to show he paid too much. Oh, sure, surveilance may see it, but until surveilance comes and asks for it back, it's mine. And even then, I may ask to see the tape before I 'admit' that there was an error.
Of course, I'm never the beneficiary of such an error.
I was at a table where the dealer paid the person next to me $20 when it should have been a push. In a barely audible whisper, I said "Did he...?" and the player whispered his response "yeah" before I could finish. The storm troopers never showed up (at least not in the 1/2 hour I was still at the table).
A dealer that pays too much doesn't have a paper trail to show he paid too much. Oh, sure, surveilance may see it, but until surveilance comes and asks for it back, it's mine. And even then, I may ask to see the tape before I 'admit' that there was an error.
Of course, I'm never the beneficiary of such an error.
I was at a table where the dealer paid the person next to me $20 when it should have been a push. In a barely audible whisper, I said "Did he...?" and the player whispered his response "yeah" before I could finish. The storm troopers never showed up (at least not in the 1/2 hour I was still at the table).
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
March 26th, 2010 at 8:11:10 AM
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Different tables have different circumstances. In craps, where there are frequent mispays, I always give the dealer the opportunity to get it right and correct if I am underpaid. Once the dice are in motion however, I pick up my winnings. For PaiGow, I always correct, right or wrong. For all other games, I will leave an overpay out on the table and give them the opportunity to correct themselves. For most dealers, I will ask something to the effect of "did you pay me right?". The only exceptions are surly and unfriendly dealers.
I don't say anything about others' bets unless it is an underpay. I figure that it is none of my business to get involved in other's ethics and morality at a casino.
If I find that the dealer is constantly missing pays, I get up and leave.
I don't say anything about others' bets unless it is an underpay. I figure that it is none of my business to get involved in other's ethics and morality at a casino.
If I find that the dealer is constantly missing pays, I get up and leave.
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You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
March 26th, 2010 at 9:59:03 AM
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Quote: nyuhoosierHere's a question for the dealer and anyone interested in ethics: Should a player correct the dealer when the dealer has paid the player erroneously? During a recent game at the El Cortez, the dealer paid me for a blackjack, forgot to clear the cards, then paid me again for the blackjack when he paid the other bets on the table.
No, I NEVER feel any ethical obligation to speak up when a casino employee inadvertently overpays me. If the casino were an ethical enterprise, they wouldn't cheat naive newbie craps players by offering the Big 6/8 bet in craps. (How unethical is the Big 6/8 in craps? So unethical that New Jersey has outlawed it.) Casinos can't have it both ways: they can't disrespect these naive newbie craps players, and then expect experienced craps players like myself to respect the casino enough to voluntarily return mistaken payments. If the house won't respect their own customers, why should I respect the house?
March 26th, 2010 at 10:06:28 AM
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Quote: renoNo, I NEVER feel any ethical obligation to speak up when a casino employee inadvertently overpays me. If the casino were an ethical enterprise, they wouldn't cheat naive newbie craps players by offering the Big 6/8 bet in craps. (How unethical is the Big 6/8 in craps? So unethical that New Jersey has outlawed it.) Casinos can't have it both ways: they can't disrespect these naive newbie craps players, and then expect experienced craps players like myself to respect the casino enough to voluntarily return mistaken payments. If the house won't respect their own customers, why should I respect the house?
I think we are getting into a bad thought process here. If someone plays Big 6/8 they are playing a game a casino offers. No one is forced to bet it. Caveat Emptor there.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
March 26th, 2010 at 10:18:52 AM
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Quote: AZDuffmanIf someone plays Big 6/8 they are playing a game a casino offers. No one is forced to bet it. Caveat Emptor there.
You wouldn't feel an ethical obligation to help out a new player who's never played craps before? Sympathy for your fellow man? All of us were new players at one time or another. We've all been there.
I admit that the craps table is covered in sucker bets, but the Big 6/8 is especially egregious because the bet is identical to a Place 6/8 bet, except for one tiny difference: the player gets cheated on the Big 6/8.
March 26th, 2010 at 10:30:53 AM
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OK. Maybe the Big 6/8 falls under the category of "Let the buyer beware."
You want to talk about casino cheating the customer, without offering adequate alternatives? Let's talk about 6:5 BJ.
You want to talk about casino cheating the customer, without offering adequate alternatives? Let's talk about 6:5 BJ.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
March 26th, 2010 at 10:42:57 AM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearLet's talk about 6:5 BJ.
Using the blackjack survey on this site, I realized that there are only four strip casinos that don't off any 6:5 BJ. Aria, Bellagio, Palazzo, Venetian.
And you know what? I respect them more. And I have less respect for all those other strip casinos who rip off their very own customers.
March 26th, 2010 at 12:00:59 PM
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Quote: renoYou wouldn't feel an ethical obligation to help out a new player who's never played craps before? Sympathy for your fellow man? All of us were new players at one time or another. We've all been there.
I admit that the craps table is covered in sucker bets, but the Big 6/8 is especially egregious because the bet is identical to a Place 6/8 bet, except for one tiny difference: the player gets cheated on the Big 6/8.
I feel that Big 6/8 falls into the same category as Single and Double Zero Roulette in the same room. It's a tough call. I'd probably tell people not to do B6/8 (but I don't have to in NJ), but I don't think I'd go out of my way to help all of the people playing 00 Roulette. I guess because B6/8 is at the same table, so I'm not "going out of my way", but it's the same type of "cheat". Here's a hypothetical: What if they allowed $5 bets on the B6/8 at the 15 dollar tables? Would that make it less of a cheat? Plus B6/8 do have the "advantage" of allowing you to press in $1 units rather than 6. I guess you could say you are paying 1 dollar per 6 units bet for that opportunity.
March 26th, 2010 at 12:02:11 PM
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Quote: renoYou wouldn't feel an ethical obligation to help out a new player who's never played craps before? Sympathy for your fellow man? All of us were new players at one time or another. We've all been there.
I admit that the craps table is covered in sucker bets, but the Big 6/8 is especially egregious because the bet is identical to a Place 6/8 bet, except for one tiny difference: the player gets cheated on the Big 6/8.
What you are asking is a seperate issue. Sure, I'd offer advice on Big 6/8 as well as 6:5 so-called BJ. But if the casino offers the game and people play it is between them.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
March 26th, 2010 at 12:40:01 PM
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Two questions
1) Do alot of dealers still use the old hand signals for needs- the old cross fingers to request a tap out/break or pointing to head if you need assistance for something; or I think there was something like a dealer tapping his fingers on the table if he thoughts someone might be cheating.
2) Do most roulette tables these days have that second betting cirlce layout .. I think its called announced bets- the like the zero bets and orphans.... or is it rare to find those tables (at least in the US perhaps).
1) Do alot of dealers still use the old hand signals for needs- the old cross fingers to request a tap out/break or pointing to head if you need assistance for something; or I think there was something like a dealer tapping his fingers on the table if he thoughts someone might be cheating.
2) Do most roulette tables these days have that second betting cirlce layout .. I think its called announced bets- the like the zero bets and orphans.... or is it rare to find those tables (at least in the US perhaps).
"Although men flatter themselves with their great actions, they are not so often the result of a great design as of chance." - Francois De La Rochefoucauld
March 26th, 2010 at 12:55:24 PM
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Quote: boymimboDifferent tables have different circumstances. ... For PaiGow, I always correct, right or wrong.
For me, different situations have different results. For example, I frequently encounter dealers paying out wrong on PaiGow, mainly because they set their hand incorrectly. As long as it goes unnoticed by anybody and I get paid, I don't worry about it. I do leave the payment out there for a little bit longer than I normally would, to give the dealer or anybody else to find the mistake.
The main situation that I will look for is the pit boss. I was in a PaiGow hand once where I pushed the dealer, but for some reason the dealer started to pay me. The pit boss was a few feet behind the dealer, watching the table, so I instantly mentioned to the dealer that it was a push. As I was saying that, the pit boss started moving toward the table, and as the dealer pulled back the payment, the pit boss veered off. I then mentioned to the dealer that had the pit boss not been standing right there, I would have taken the payment. The dealer just winked at me.
I asked a dealer one time if they get docked pay or in a lot of trouble for doing a mispayment, and the dealer basically just said that it gets mentioned to them, or they get shown on the tapes, or something like that. For the small amounts I'm playing, I doubt it's a worrisome issue for the casino. I figure, as long as the dealer isn't going to get fired for overpaying or mispaying me a few bucks, then I'm not going to worry about it too much.
March 26th, 2010 at 1:01:15 PM
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Before we get too far off track, the topic is about dealer mistakes, which migrated towards getting even for 'casino cheats' via the Big 6/8 and 6:5 BJ.Quote: AZDuffmanWhat you are asking is a seperate issue. Sure, I'd offer advice on Big 6/8 as well as 6:5 so-called BJ. But if the casino offers the game and people play it is between them.
There's another thread regarding offering advice.
Having said that, sigh, here's a reply that is off topic:
I've seen people bet wierd amounts on the place 6/8. They simply pay the max at 7:6 and the extra 1:1.Quote: cclub79Plus B6/8 do have the "advantage" of allowing you to press in $1 units rather than 6.
I.E. The person bet $15, and got paid $17 (14:12 + 3:3).
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
March 26th, 2010 at 1:14:16 PM
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Quote: konceptumI asked a dealer one time if they get docked pay or in a lot of trouble for doing a mispayment, and the dealer basically just said that it gets mentioned to them, or they get shown on the tapes, or something like that. For the small amounts I'm playing, I doubt it's a worrisome issue for the casino. I figure, as long as the dealer isn't going to get fired for overpaying or mispaying me a few bucks, then I'm not going to worry about it too much.
I'll report back on this after dealer school, but lets look at numbers using BJ as an example.
400 minutes of dealing time on a regular shift, 60 hands per hour, 6 spots per table.
6.6 hours, 60 hands per hour, 6 spots = 2,376 total hands dealt.
Lets normalize that since that is both peak and ideal. 70% of 2,376 = 1,663 hands dealt per shift. Round down to 1600 for simplification.
1% error rate is 16 mispays per day. .1% error rate is 2 mispays per day.
If the dealer is making 16 mistakes per day I'm confident they might be shown the door or "encouraged" to apply in a different department. At 2 per day my guess is the Pit Boss, Shift Boss, or whoever will let them know if it is a minor amount and truely an accident. Or move the dealer down in minimums.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
March 26th, 2010 at 1:17:34 PM
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Ah yes, staying on topic and asking dealers. Here's a couple of questions I've had.
1) Is it considered impolite to ask the dealer if their tips are pooled or individual? I have asked this on numerous occasions until I get the feel for how a particular casino operates. The reason I ask is that it makes a difference in the way that I tip for the dealers. I've gotten strange looks for asking, but I just wonder if you would be offended that I even ask the question.
2) Different casinos have different (and in my opinion odd) rules regarding dealer tips. Playing three-card poker at one casino, I was told that I could not make a bet for the dealer on the bonus. The reason: I might get a straight flush and the dealer would get paid 40-1 along with me. My response: so? That's why I'm making the best. I get lucky, the dealer gets lucky, we all win. I've had other casinos tell me that making a two-way parlay hard-six bet in craps was not allowed, because the dealers are not allowed to parlay their wins. In both of those circumstances, I was told that I could just as easily make the best for myself, and then if it does hit, I give half the winning to the dealers as their tip. Personally, it sounds like the same thing to me, but I don't even begin to try and figure out why the casinos make up their rules.
OK, long introduction for the actual question: If I'm in a casino with rules like this, and let's say I would normally bet $5 on the bonus bet (in three-card poker) and $5 for the dealer. I'm told I can't do this, so I put the $10 on my bonus-bet, and tell the dealer, I'll split it with you if it hits. I'm not sure exactly how to phrase my question, but I guess, do you believe it when a player tells you this? I guess what I'm wondering is, should I just not say anything at all, and if it hits, just give half the money to the dealer? Or is it better to say, "If this hits, we'll split it." I can see dealers not really caring if a player says this, because I'm sure they've had players say this and not actually split the money with them. So I guess I just wonder if you want to hear this, or you'd rather just be surprised when the tip gets pushed toward you.
1) Is it considered impolite to ask the dealer if their tips are pooled or individual? I have asked this on numerous occasions until I get the feel for how a particular casino operates. The reason I ask is that it makes a difference in the way that I tip for the dealers. I've gotten strange looks for asking, but I just wonder if you would be offended that I even ask the question.
2) Different casinos have different (and in my opinion odd) rules regarding dealer tips. Playing three-card poker at one casino, I was told that I could not make a bet for the dealer on the bonus. The reason: I might get a straight flush and the dealer would get paid 40-1 along with me. My response: so? That's why I'm making the best. I get lucky, the dealer gets lucky, we all win. I've had other casinos tell me that making a two-way parlay hard-six bet in craps was not allowed, because the dealers are not allowed to parlay their wins. In both of those circumstances, I was told that I could just as easily make the best for myself, and then if it does hit, I give half the winning to the dealers as their tip. Personally, it sounds like the same thing to me, but I don't even begin to try and figure out why the casinos make up their rules.
OK, long introduction for the actual question: If I'm in a casino with rules like this, and let's say I would normally bet $5 on the bonus bet (in three-card poker) and $5 for the dealer. I'm told I can't do this, so I put the $10 on my bonus-bet, and tell the dealer, I'll split it with you if it hits. I'm not sure exactly how to phrase my question, but I guess, do you believe it when a player tells you this? I guess what I'm wondering is, should I just not say anything at all, and if it hits, just give half the money to the dealer? Or is it better to say, "If this hits, we'll split it." I can see dealers not really caring if a player says this, because I'm sure they've had players say this and not actually split the money with them. So I guess I just wonder if you want to hear this, or you'd rather just be surprised when the tip gets pushed toward you.
March 26th, 2010 at 1:19:00 PM
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Most of the time at craps, the dealers can calculate the correct payouts for the table faster than I can figure my own. I’ve had them convert a made place bet and its payout to odds for my come bet so fast that it made my head spin. Sometimes I question things, but it is usually that things were done correctly, and I just couldn’t keep up.
Two exceptions I recall. A couple of years ago I was paid for a hard 10 when the roll wasn’t even a 10 at all. I pointed that one out and returned the money. I remember that event because it bothered me that I had slowed down the game when there was a lot more money on the table than what I was playing. I wondered whether I should have just let it go.
Then last weekend I was at a table where a young woman at the base position was obviously new. A group of women playing at my end of the table were making it unnecessarily difficult for this dealer by simultaneously throwing out multiple new bets each roll, even before she had time to pay out the old ones. She had some difficulty, and the box man was trying to keep control of the situation. One roll I hit on a $12 place bet on the 6 and was paid. Before sending the dice out again, the box man had the dealer give me $2. He said she had only paid me $12, and I had not even noticed.
I figure if the house is watching closely enough and is willing to correct errors to protect me, I should extend the same courtesy and report overpayments. In any case, I am not betting heavy enough that errors either way are really hurting anyone.
Two exceptions I recall. A couple of years ago I was paid for a hard 10 when the roll wasn’t even a 10 at all. I pointed that one out and returned the money. I remember that event because it bothered me that I had slowed down the game when there was a lot more money on the table than what I was playing. I wondered whether I should have just let it go.
Then last weekend I was at a table where a young woman at the base position was obviously new. A group of women playing at my end of the table were making it unnecessarily difficult for this dealer by simultaneously throwing out multiple new bets each roll, even before she had time to pay out the old ones. She had some difficulty, and the box man was trying to keep control of the situation. One roll I hit on a $12 place bet on the 6 and was paid. Before sending the dice out again, the box man had the dealer give me $2. He said she had only paid me $12, and I had not even noticed.
I figure if the house is watching closely enough and is willing to correct errors to protect me, I should extend the same courtesy and report overpayments. In any case, I am not betting heavy enough that errors either way are really hurting anyone.
March 26th, 2010 at 1:22:37 PM
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Quote: AZDuffmanIf the dealer is making 16 mistakes per day I'm confident they might be shown the door or "encouraged" to apply in a different department.
I'd have to agree. If a dealer is making that many mistakes per day, every day, then they probably should be shown the door. I probably don't gamble as much as the rest of you do, but in all my gambling experience, I can think of 3, maybe 4, times that a mispayment was made toward me.
I honestly think that for the most part, most dealers are good at their job, and don't have any problems or issues. (I have a bit of respect for them, because I don't think their job is particularly easy, and I don't think the pay is particularly high.) So, if a casino were willing to overlook a simple mistake that happens once in a while, with maybe just a call into the office to mention, hey by the way, you paid this wrong, I think that's probably ok.
I know if one of my movers broke 16 things in a day, they would have been fired. Further, they would have been sent home well before they got to break 16 things. It's true that people can have off days, and I suppose if the cameras were to notice a particular dealer having a bit of problems on a day (provided that dealer was not a consistent source of problems), my hope is that they would just tell the dealer to call it a day and come back fresh tomorrow. Granted, things might not work out so rosey in real life, but I can always hope. :)
March 26th, 2010 at 1:35:58 PM
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Quote: DocI figure if the house is watching closely enough and is willing to correct errors to protect me, I should extend the same courtesy and report overpayments.
I'll have to admit, I never thought of it that way before. However, at the same time, I think only in craps have I noticed the box or stick man noticing an underpayment or nonpayment. I don't think I've ever noticed the same thing happen at a table game. Various other situations can occur, but not that.
One time, playing three-card poker, I had hit a few bonus hands in a row. I was playing $5 on the pair-plus bet. The dealer told me that I should be paying more there, since I keep hitting bonus hands. I told her that if I played more, I would certainly not get a bonus hand, as that's how you ruin your luck. (Yes, I subscribe to the Gambler's Fallacy Newsletter, and read it religiously. :P) The next hand, of course, was a bonus hand. She mentioned again that I should be playing more, and so I put out $10 on the pair-plus and said, "If it loses, I'm blaming you." With a grin. (Obviously, I never blame dealers for anything some pseudo-random machine deals out.) Sure enough, no bonus, and I lost. The dealer collected the bet, and then returned it to me saying, "Sorry about that." I said, "No, no, no. Take the money, I lost, no big deal." I pushed the $10 back to her, and put another $5 out on the pair-plus bet. She said, "No, it was my fault, take it." and pushed the $10 back to me. I wasn't really sure what to do in this situation, so I put the $10 as a dealer bet for her. (Unfortunately, it did not hit.) Question for the dealers: can dealers do this? I was really afraid she'd get in trouble, and it was really obvious what was going on. Even the cameras would have no trouble seeing what she had done. I was really worried for her on it.
March 26th, 2010 at 1:39:17 PM
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Quote: konceptumAh yes, staying on topic and asking dealers. Here's a couple of questions I've had.
1) Is it considered impolite to ask the dealer if their tips are pooled or individual? I have asked this on numerous occasions until I get the feel for how a particular casino operates. The reason I ask is that it makes a difference in the way that I tip for the dealers. I've gotten strange looks for asking, but I just wonder if you would be offended that I even ask the question.
I haven't become a dealer yet, but doubt it would bother me. There are all kinds of different people, though. My take would be the person knows enough to ask so why not tell them. Some players would not even think to tip so I'd be glad an "asker" is a tipper.
Quote:2) Different casinos have different (and in my opinion odd) rules regarding dealer tips. Playing three-card poker at one casino, I was told that I could not make a bet for the dealer on the bonus. The reason: I might get a straight flush and the dealer would get paid 40-1 along with me. My response: so? That's why I'm making the best. I get lucky, the dealer gets lucky, we all win. I've had other casinos tell me that making a two-way parlay hard-six bet in craps was not allowed, because the dealers are not allowed to parlay their wins. In both of those circumstances, I was told that I could just as easily make the best for myself, and then if it does hit, I give half the winning to the dealers as their tip. Personally, it sounds like the same thing to me, but I don't even begin to try and figure out why the casinos make up their rules.
I can only guess they don't want even the appearance the dealer could collude with you. This is also for the protection of the dealer. Say the straight flush hits but from the eye it looks like the delaer cheated, even if he didn't. There would be motive and more for the dealer to prove. No one will take chances on their job for $20, but for hundreds or thousands they might if there is a casino down the street.
Quote:OK, long introduction for the actual question: If I'm in a casino with rules like this, and let's say I would normally bet $5 on the bonus bet (in three-card poker) and $5 for the dealer. I'm told I can't do this, so I put the $10 on my bonus-bet, and tell the dealer, I'll split it with you if it hits. I'm not sure exactly how to phrase my question, but I guess, do you believe it when a player tells you this? I guess what I'm wondering is, should I just not say anything at all, and if it hits, just give half the money to the dealer? Or is it better to say, "If this hits, we'll split it." I can see dealers not really caring if a player says this, because I'm sure they've had players say this and not actually split the money with them. So I guess I just wonder if you want to hear this, or you'd rather just be surprised when the tip gets pushed toward you.
I'd rather be suprised. That is just me.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
March 26th, 2010 at 3:50:43 PM
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Interesting question in this thread.Quote: konceptum1) Is it considered impolite to ask the dealer if their tips are pooled or individual?
Often while playing blackjack I'll put up $1 tip bets.
This one time, I hit BJ, and the dealer took a $2.50 out of the rack to pay himself - but he didn't put the $1 in the rack. Instead he put both, $3.50, in the tip box.
Suddenly, I couldn't do math because it took a few hands of thinking about it to realize that he really did make a mistake. At about the time I figured it out, I again hit BJ with a $1 tip up, and he again put $3.50 in the tip box.
It was right at that time that he had to shuffle, so while shuffling, I told him about his mistake. It took him several moments to realize it what he did.
Although I knew they pool the tips, I asked. He instantly knew where I was going and we both had a good laugh.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
March 28th, 2010 at 8:01:04 PM
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hi guys, I'm a craps dealer if you have specific questions, I'll be glad to help.
March 29th, 2010 at 11:38:27 AM
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Quote: MalaruTwo questions
1) Do alot of dealers still use the old hand signals for needs- the old cross fingers to request a tap out/break or pointing to head if you need assistance for something; or I think there was something like a dealer tapping his fingers on the table if he thoughts someone might be cheating.
A couple of interesting questions that I noticed got lost in the thread. In England, as we dont have surveillance as extensive as in Vegas, we have an audible noise we make, called "kissing up", as it sounds like a child kissing noise, to gain the attention of the pitboss/inspector. We then (discreetly) tell the pit boss what we need.
Quote: Malaru2) Do most roulette tables these days have that second betting cirlce layout .. I think its called announced bets- the like the zero bets and orphans.... or is it rare to find those tables (at least in the US perhaps).
The "Racetrack" as its known, is widespread throughout the UK with most casino's having them. I dont know how regular they are in the US.
For those who dont know, the racetrack is a section on the layout near the dealer, where various Call Bets (so called as you call out what you want the dealer to place) can be made.
These can be "neighbour bets" which cover a number and the 2 numbers either side of it eg Zero Neigbours (on a single 0 wheel) would cover 3, 26, 0, 32, 15. (all straight up) by a various amount. At my casino the minimum for these bets is £25, with £5 on each number. They can be given for any number on the wheel.
The other bets, "section bets", or "French bets" (also single xero wheel) are so called because they cover sections on the wheel and originated in France.
Voison du Zero, or Zero Section, is a 9 piece bet that has 2 pieces (chips) on 0/2/3 street, 1 piece on 4/7 split, 1 piece on 12/15 split, 1 piece on 18/21 split, 1 piece on 19/22, 2 pices on 25/29 corner, and 1 piece on 32/35 split.
Le Tier, (the third) or just Tier, is so called because it covers a third of the wheel. It is a 6 piece bet with 1 piece on each of the following splits: 5/8, 10/11, 13/16, 23/24, 27/30, 33/36.
Les Orphelins, or the Orphans, are so called as they do not belong in the other sections. This is a 5 piece bet with one piece on 1 straight up, 1 piece 6/9 split, 1 piece 14/17 split, 1 piece 17/20 split, and 1 piece 31/34 split.
These bets in my casino also have a £5 per piece minimum, so would cost £45, £30, and £25 respectively.
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April 12th, 2010 at 6:20:39 AM
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Croupier.....as a ex dealer recently promoted to Pit Boss here in Australia I have enjoyed this thread......keep it up!!!
It is interesting the differences between the casinos across the continents.......
It is interesting the differences between the casinos across the continents.......
