Strange Request at Cashier for w-9
Quote: AxelWolfPics or it didn't happen.
I'm just glad to know you didn't teach her your winning craps system.
Oh axey ax ax... if you only knew. I call it Tuesday. You call it an unattainable pipe dream.
...and nope, I didnt take her to the craps table. The table in my suite go all the action needed.
Quote: WatchMeWinOh axey ax ax... if you only knew. I call it Tuesday. You call it an unattainable pipe dream.
...and nope, I didnt take her to the craps table. The table in my suite go all the action needed.
This is giving a new voyeuristic angle to watchme profile name
So you would have us believe it's hoes over rolls?Quote: WatchMeWinOh axey ax ax... if you only knew. I call it Tuesday. You call it an unattainable pipe dream.
...and nope, I didnt take her to the craps table. The table in my suite go all the action needed.
Quote: AxelWolfSo you would have us believe it's hoes over rolls?
When did I ever say I put hoes over rolls? Money always comes first. When I picked up dates it was always ancillary and secondary. Without dough you will not get the hoe.
Quote: AxelWolfSo you would have us believe it's hoes over rolls?
I also left out the bartenders, and sales rep that made it to the wmw suite that month. Perhaps you were on a date with Rosie Palm and her 5 friends.
Quote: WatchMeWinI also left out the bartenders, and sales rep that made it to the wmw suite that month. Perhaps you were on a date with Rosie Palm and her 5 friends.
Dont knock those menage a sixes (whatever french for six is)
Mary is the most faithful woman I know
https://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/question-of-the-day/
In short, they can ask for a W9 if you don’t show them your Social Security Card when the situation requires a SS#.
Quote: darkoz(whatever french for six is)
The French for "six" is "six". Glad I could help. :-)
Quote: CashcagesuoerviIts because youre doing too much. As a high limit player you should expect anything over 500 to be monitored. After 10k combined between checks cashed,chips,tickets, cash advances...even trading in 100s for 20s or 20s for 100's too often with larger amounts will get you watched. Typically we start watching folks at 500 mark...and track them. 2k is when a log actually has to be filled out but a ssn isnt needed until you reach 10k combined spending,exchanging cashing in or out...every transaction you do beyond 500 will b watched until you hit 2k at 2k we fill out info in a log with your name if we know it and your players card number. Once we have managed to track you to 1 cent over 10k we will ask for your ssn we need it for reporting purposes as required by law we can get fined if we dont. They probably just wanted a w9 so they could get your ssn without outfront asking you for just your ssn.
Hey, thanks for the advice and welcome to the forum!
Quote: Cashcagesuoervi. Once we have managed to track you to 1 cent over 10k we will ask for your ssn we need it for reporting purposes as required by law we can get fined if we dont. They probably just wanted a w9 so they could get your ssn without outfront asking you for just your ssn.
We tell our employees to fill out a w-9 unless the patron has their original SS card on them.
It sits in my safe.
Quote: billryanDo any of you carry your original social security card? I had to apply for a new one when my landlord insisted on seeing it.
It sits in my safe.
I got a new one because didn’t have original when applying for a job. I don’t carry it, it’s in my SDB (I hope!).
Don’t trust people who carry around their SS card or birth certificate on the regular.
Quote: RSI got a new one because didn’t have original when applying for a job. I don’t carry it, it’s in my SDB (I hope!).
Don’t trust people who carry around their SS card or birth certificate on the regular.
I have had mine in my wallet for at least the last ten years. Not that I have needed it, I am just lazy and haven't taken it out since the last time I did need it.
Quote: billryanKeeping items like that or a passport in a safety deposit box isn't all that great an idea. Suppose you met a hot model who invites you to Rio for the weekend. It's 5pm the Friday before a three day weekend. Some things you need 24/7 access to. It's why private 24 hour vaults would be great, if they were reliable.
More likely you will be saved from ending up in Hostel or The Green River
???Quote: ChumpChangeIf you're playing slots for handpays, bring your SS card with you to the casino. If you're flirting with CTR's, same thing.
Only one time did a casino request to see my SS card. And that was only because the slot manager was pissed off at me for trying to get him to follow the rules of their promotion. They were allowing people to enter tickets in the drawing well after the drum was supposed to be closed. When I won one of the drawings, he wanted to hold 33% from my winnings. I told him go ahead, I just won't be tipping anyone. He backed off at the end and paid me in full. Guess what? That casino got shut down the next day. <<<that'll teach em.
My parents applied for my SSN sometime in the mid-80s, so they could get child tax credits. I asked them what my number was sometime in the mid-90s when I entered the workforce and that's been it. Never had a card and probably never will. Virtually every place that I've dealt with that uses social security information legitimately does not require a card. I've applied to hundreds of jobs, had the application move forward many times, and been hired at a few of them. Only one place has ever asked for a card and it would have been a crap job anyway.
At a casino, most of us have to give the information get paid in full on the over $1200 slot machine wins. I've always been curious how it works for people who don't have a SSN, especially foreigners. Do they have 30% taken out and have to file US taxes?
I've been asked at the cage and sportsbook for my SSN a few times after cashing out, mostly when I was working with other guys. It's always the same, no matter what they try to do all I say is "I would like my money," followed by "are you saying you're not going to pay me my money?" It may take a while and they may have to make some phone calls and bring some other people over, but they always eventually decide they aren't going to commit any crimes and they pay me. If it was to my benefit to keep a profile as low as possible I may be more willing to give up some of my rights.
Quote: ChumpChangeIf you're playing slots for handpays, bring your SS card with you to the casino. If you're flirting with CTR's, same thing.
What's the theory behind this? Only thing I can think of is that it might make things move faster, but that's probably minimal. For CTR and such, the only other thing it does is give up privacy in exchange for making someone else's job easier. They can go ahead and take care of everything the way they're supposed to without my SSN (they're not giving me social security benefits so I'm not giving them the nine digits). It may make it "suspicious," but it's not illegal. It's also not my job to help file any of those reports, so until they hire me to fill them out I'm not helping them with it.
(is it a SSN or an SSN?)
Quote: DRichWe recently had a patron that couldn't or wouldn't provide a photo ID. That patron was notified that they will forfeit any jackpots of $1200 or more that they hit. They are still playing with us.
Isn't the money held until they do show up with ID, not forfeited? If my understanding is correct, how would you verify it is the same person? Just trust your eyes and whatever information they give? Gives them a chance to find a good enough look-alike
Quote: ChumpChangeIf you're playing slots for handpays, bring your SS card with you to the casino. If you're flirting with CTR's, same thing.
I've hit many hand pays and never had a problem.
They just have you fill out a w-9 form.
Quote: CashcagesuoerviIts because youre doing too much. As a high limit player you should expect anything over 500 to be monitored..
Do you work in a small casino,500 seems really low?
Quote: TomGIsn't the money held until they do show up with ID, not forfeited? If my understanding is correct, how would you verify it is the same person? Just trust your eyes and whatever information they give? Gives them a chance to find a good enough look-alike
You are correct, the money will be held until ID is provided but will be forfeited if ID isn't eventually presented. That is the case with this patron. The patron is refusing to provide ID and has no intention of providing it.
Quote: HunterhillDo you work in a small casino,500 seems really low?
Has to be. My place starts official tracking at $3,000.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13Has to be. My place starts official tracking at $3,000.
ZCore13
$3,000 is also when we start tracking.
Quote: TomGIsn't the money held until they do show up with ID, not forfeited? If my understanding is correct, how would you verify it is the same person? Just trust your eyes and whatever information they give? Gives them a chance to find a good enough look-alike
I hit a pretty big jackpot at some Podunk casino in Rhode Island an didn't have my wallet with me. They had me sign the back of the ticket in front of witnesses, and then had me write out a statement that I didn't have my wallet. When I came back , they had me write out a statement, and they seemed to actually compare my handwriting. The two witnesses also swore out an affidavit that I was the person they witnessed sign the ticket. Quite a pain for all involved. I'm surprised the casinos don't charge a fee, it certainly cost them time and money.
how many jackpots does a nickel BJ player hit (-;Quote: DRichWe recently had a patron that couldn't or wouldn't provide a photo ID. That patron was notified that they will forfeit any jackpots of $1200 or more that they hit. They are still playing with us.
Quote: AxelWolfhow many jackpots does a nickel BJ player hit (-;
Do you wear your pantyhose out to casinos when you AP?
Quote: DRichYou are correct, the money will be held until ID is provided but will be forfeited if ID isn't eventually presented. That is the case with this patron. The patron is refusing to provide ID and has no intention of providing it.
I've seen requests for ID on the presumption of age verification, but suspect it was actually for tracking purposes, since the individuals were clearly over 21. As for the patron who refuses to show his ID, I assume the casino will be happy to accept his wagers... until he hits a handpay, then what happens to the "unawarded" jackpot? Does the money go to the State for safekeeping like an abandoned savings account?
Quote: AyecarumbaI've seen requests for ID on the presumption of age verification, but suspect it was actually for tracking purposes, since the individuals were clearly over 21. As for the patron who refuses to show his ID, I assume the casino will be happy to accept his wagers... until he hits a handpay, then what happens to the "unawarded" jackpot? Does the money go to the State for safekeeping like an abandoned savings account?
In most States it gets donated to charity. Where I work it goes to the Boys and Girls Club. This includes money in a betting circle during a hand when a banned player is found playing table games and jackpot money for a table game or slot machine. There is no financial savings or reward for not paying the jackpot to the player.
ZCore13
Could you have said anything more lame than that? I think you already used that one before, It was lame then and even more so now. Keep working at it. Speaking of jokes, you might want to adapt your hit and run winning craps system to your jokes.Quote: WatchMeWinDo you wear your pantyhose out to casinos when you AP?
Quote: TomG"
What's the theory behind this? Only thing I can think of is that it might make things move faster, but that's probably minimal. For CTR and such, the only other thing it does is give up privacy in exchange for making someone else's job easier. They can go ahead and take care of everything the way they're supposed to without my SSN (they're not giving me social security benefits so I'm not giving them the nine digits). It may make it "suspicious," but it's not illegal. It's also not my job to help file any of those reports, so until they hire me to fill them out I'm not helping them with it.
(is it a SSN or an SSN?)
Tom,
If you hit a taxable jackpot (over $1200), you can either give the SSN and have the opportunity to get your tax money back, or not give the SSN and give up any chance to get the taxes refunded.
If you have a cash transaction that exceeds $10,000, it cannot be processed without your SSN. If you apply for a line of credit, we require the SSN. Otherwise, we have no interest in knowing that number.
The above is Federal Law.
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https://www.fraudfighter.com/education/compliance/title-31-casino-compliance
Currency Transaction Report (CTR): FinCEN Form 112
A Currency Transaction Report (CTR) is a form that needs to be filled out and submitted online whenever a certain transaction or aggregate transactions involving either the cash-in or cash-out of more than $10,000 in a single gaming day by, or on behalf of, any person.
„ØCTRs, at the very minimum, need the following information about such persons: „Øname1
„Øpermanent address1
„ØSocial Security number (SSN) or tax identification number (TIN)
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https://www.irs.gov/instructions/iw2g
Withholding
You must withhold federal income tax from the winnings if the winnings minus the wager exceed $5,000 and the winnings are at least 300 times the wager. Withhold 24% of the proceeds (the winnings minus the wager). This is regular gambling withholding.
If the winner of reportable gambling winnings doesn't provide a TIN, you must backup withhold on any such winnings that aren't subject to regular gambling withholding. The backup withholding rate is identical to the regular withholding rate of 24%. That is, backup withholding of 24% applies if the winnings are at least $600 but not more than $5,000 and are at least 300 times the wager. Figure backup withholding on the amount of the winnings reduced, at the option of the payer, by the amount wagered.
Box 9
This is required information. Enter the TIN of the person receiving the winnings. For an individual this will be the social security number (SSN) or individual taxpayer identification number (ITIN). If the winner fails to give you a TIN, backup withholding applies. See Withholding,earlier.
File Form W-2G for each person to whom you pay more than $5,000 in winnings, reduced by the amount of the wager or buy-in, from each poker tournament you have sponsored. Winnings and losses of the participant from other poker tournaments you have sponsored during the year aren't taken into account in arriving at the $5,000 amount.
Withholding and backup withholding. If you file Form W-2G for the person to whom you pay more than $5,000 in net winnings from a poker tournament, and provide a copy of Form W-2G to such person, regular gambling withholding doesn't apply to the winnings. However, if the person who wins more than $5,000 doesn't provide a TIN, you must apply backup withholding to the full amount of the winnings from the tournament. The backup withholding rate is identical to the regular withholding rate of 24%. Net winnings of $5,000 or less aren't subject to reporting, withholding, or backup withholding.
Box 4
Enter zero as the amount, unless the winning person hasn't provided a TIN. If the winning person hasn't provided a TIN, enter the backup withholding amount.
Box 9
This is required information. Enter the TIN of the person receiving the winnings. For an individual this will be the social security number (SSN) or individual taxpayer identification number (ITIN). If the winner fails to give you a TIN, backup withholding applies. See Withholding and backup withholding,earlier.
Boxes 11 and 12
As verification of the name, address, and TIN of the person receiving the winnings, enter the identification numbers from two forms of identification. Acceptable forms of identification include a driver's license, social security card, or voter registration. Enter the number and the state or jurisdiction. In some instances, the number may be the same number as in box 9.
Boxes 13 Through 18
These boxes are provided for your convenience only and need not be completed for the IRS. See State Tax Information and Local Tax Information,earlier.
Box 13. Enter the abbreviated name of the state and your state identification number.
Box 14. Enter the amount of state winnings.
Box 15. Enter the amount of state income tax withheld.
Box 16. Enter the amount of local winnings.
Box 17. Enter the amount of local income tax withheld.
Box 18. Enter the name of your locality.
File Form W-2G for every person to whom you pay $1,200 or more in gambling winnings from bingo or slot machines, or $1,500 or more from keno after the price of the wager for the winning keno game is deducted. If the winnings aren't paid in cash, the FMV of the item won is considered the amount of the winnings. Total all winnings from all wagers made during a single bingo or keno game to determine whether the winnings are reportable. Winnings and losses from other wagering transactions aren't to be taken into account in arriving at the $1,200 or $1,500 figure.
Withholding
Regular gambling withholding doesn't apply to winnings from bingo, keno, or slot machines. However, if the recipient of reportable gambling winnings from bingo, keno, or slot machines doesn't provide a TIN, you must backup withhold. That is, if the winnings are at least $1,200 from bingo or slot machines or $1,500 from keno, backup withholding of 24% applies to the amount of the winnings reduced, at the option of the payer, by the amount wagered.
Boxes 11 and 12
As verification of the name, address, and TIN of the person receiving the winnings, enter the identification numbers from two forms of identification. Acceptable forms of identification include a driver's license, passport, social security card, military identification card, tribal member identification card issued by a federally recognized Indian tribe, voter registration card, or completed and unmodified Form W-9. Enter the number and the state or jurisdiction. In some instances, the number may be the same number as in box 9.
One of the two forms of identification that the recipient presents must include the recipient's photograph. Gaming establishments owned or licensed by a tribal government may waive the photo ID requirement for payees who are members of that federally recognized Indian tribe and present a tribal member identification card issued by the same tribal government.
File Form W-2G for each person to whom you pay $600 or more in gambling winnings from a sweepstakes, wagering pool, or lottery (including a state-conducted lottery) if the winnings are at least 300 times the amount of the wager. The wager must be subtracted from the total winnings to determine whether withholding is required and, at the option of the payer, to determine whether reporting is required. The wager must be subtracted at the time of the first payment.
The requirements in this section apply to church raffles, charity drawings, etc. In the case of one wager for multiple raffle tickets, such as five for $1, the wager is considered as $.20 for each ticket.
Withholding
You must withhold federal income tax from the winnings if the winnings minus the wager exceed $5,000. Withhold 24% of the proceeds (the winnings minus the wager). This is regular gambling withholding. If the winner of reportable gambling winnings doesn't provide a TIN, you must backup withhold on any such winnings that aren't subject to regular gambling withholding. that backup withholding rate is identical to the regular withholding rate of 24%. That is, backup withholding of 24% applies if the winnings are at least $600 but not more than $5,000 and are at least 300 times the wager. Figure backup withholding on the amount of the winnings reduced, at the option of the payer, by the amount wagered.
Installment payments of $5,000 or less are subject to regular gambling withholding if the total proceeds from the wager will exceed $5,000.
If payments are to be made for the life of a person (or for the lives of more than one person), and it is actuarially determined that the total proceeds from the wager are expected to exceed $5,000, such payments are subject to 24% regular gambling withholding. When a third party makes the payments, for example, an insurance company handling the winnings as an annuity, that third party must withhold.
When Paid
A payment of winnings is considered made when it is paid, either actually or constructively, to the winner. Winnings are constructively paid when they are credited to or set apart for that person without any substantial limitation or restriction on the time, manner, or condition of payment. However, if not later than 60 days after the winner becomes entitled to the prize, the winner chooses the option of a lump sum or an annuity payable over at least 10 years, the payment of winnings is considered made when actually paid. If the winner chooses an annuity, file Form W-2G each year to report the annuity paid during that year.
Box 4
Enter any federal income tax withheld, whether regular gambling withholding or backup withholding.
Boxes 11 and 12
Except for winnings from state lotteries, as verification of the name, address, and TIN of the person receiving the winnings, enter the identification numbers from two forms of identification. Acceptable forms of identification include a driver's license, passport, social security card, military identification card, tribal member identification card issued by a federally recognized Indian tribe, voter registration card, or completed and unmodified Form W-9. Enter the number and the state or jurisdiction. In some instances, the number may be the same number as in box 9.
One of the two forms of identification that the recipient presents must include the recipient's photograph. Gaming establishments owned or licensed by a tribal government may waive the photo ID requirement for payees who are members of that federally recognized Indian tribe and present a tribal member identification card issued by the same tribal government.
Quote: FCBLComishTom,
If you hit a taxable jackpot (over $1200), you can either give the SSN and have the opportunity to get your tax money back, or not give the SSN and give up any chance to get the taxes refunded.
That doesn't explain anything about any reason to use a social security card.
Quote: FCBLComishIf you have a cash transaction that exceeds $10,000, it cannot be processed without your SSN. If you apply for a line of credit, we require the SSN. Otherwise, we have no interest in knowing that number.
There are casino customers who don't have SSNs and still buy in at and cash out at the tables and machines for over that amount. When I have had multiple transactions that exceeded $10,000 over a few days (buying in and cashing out for ~$1,000 - $5,000 each time), the casino asked for my SSN, when I didn't give it to them, they still paid. I'm sure there was an SAR or STR and I'm sure the casino was perfectly fine handling it the way they did. In Nevada, whenever the dispute is over $500, the casino is required to contact the gaming commission. Not doing that would be a crime. I think a good piece of script to have ready to go is "I dispute your decision."
"I would like my money."
"Are you saying you won't give me my money?"
"I dispute what you are doing."
Nothing else needs to be said. The result is almost certainly getting paid.
Quote: TomGThat doesn't explain anything about any reason to use a social security card.
There are casino customers who don't have SSNs and still buy in at and cash out at the tables and machines for over that amount. When I have had multiple transactions that exceeded $10,000 over a few days (buying in and cashing out for ~$1,000 - $5,000 each time), the casino asked for my SSN, when I didn't give it to them, they still paid. I'm sure there was an SAR or STR and I'm sure the casino was perfectly fine handling it the way they did. In Nevada, whenever the dispute is over $500, the casino is required to contact the gaming commission. Not doing that would be a crime. I think a good piece of script to have ready to go is "I dispute your decision."
"I would like my money."
"Are you saying you won't give me my money?"
"I dispute what you are doing."
Nothing else needs to be said. The result is almost certainly getting paid.
I have already had 2 situations where the casino refused to pay
Both times I demanded they contact the gaming commission and have and agent sent out so they could explain to the agent why they were refusing to pay
Both times I received my money (and both times it did indeed take the gaming agent to order the paynent)
Quote: darkozI have already had 2 situations where the casino refused to pay
Both times I demanded they contact the gaming commission and have and agent sent out so they could explain to the agent why they were refusing to pay
Both times I received my money (and both times it did indeed take the gaming agent to order the paynent)
Refusal to pay should not happen. They should refuse to cash out your chips if your transaction is over $10k, but you will be allowed to keep the chips. Federal law requires a SSN or TIN on any transaction or series of transactions in the same direction that are over $10k.
Quote: FCBLComishFederal law requires a SSN or TIN on any transaction or series of transactions in the same direction that are over $10k.
Ummm... ANY transaction?? How does this work for gambling patrons who are not US citizens? Did I miss something earlier in the message thread where this applies only to US citizens?
Quote: LuckyPhowUmmm... ANY transaction?? How does this work for gambling patrons who are not US citizens? Did I miss something earlier in the message thread where this applies only to US citizens?
You need to file for a TIN. Big casinos will usually have the necessary forms.
Quote: DRichQuote: LuckyPhowUmmm... ANY transaction?? How does this work for gambling patrons who are not US citizens? Did I miss something earlier in the message thread where this applies only to US citizens?
You need to file for a TIN. Big casinos will usually have the necessary forms.
TIN stands for Taxpayer Identification Number FYI.
(FYI stands for For Your Information :) )
Quote: DRichQuote: LuckyPhowUmmm... ANY transaction?? How does this work for gambling patrons who are not US citizens? Did I miss something earlier in the message thread where this applies only to US citizens?
You need to file for a TIN. Big casinos will usually have the necessary forms.
Correct. That's Federal law. Same anywhere you go, commercial, tribal, or card room. Same forms if you pay cash for a car, or make a deposit at your local bank. Uncle Sam wants to know.
Since we're on the subject...... I was under the impression that as soon as someone attempts to surpass the CTR threshold, the transaction must continue, even if the player doesn't want to provide SSN. For example, a player who's been losing has bought in for $4,000 two different times (now in for $8k)....if he tries to buy in a third time for another $4k (putting him at $12k -> CTR), then when the pit boss tells him he needs his SSN & name to fill out a CTR, that they can't just give the player back the cash, but must continue with the transaction. I don't know if that's true or not. I vaguely remember either reading that on some Title 31 stuff, although I certainly may be mistaken on that one and mis-interpreted something or was given bad info. If that is true, though, (that the transaction must continue) -- then what happens?
Quote: RSSSN isn't required for a CTR if you're cashing out (idk about buying in...more on that below). Bob N and I believe DRich would attest to that as well.
Since we're on the subject...... I was under the impression that as soon as someone attempts to surpass the CTR threshold, the transaction must continue, even if the player doesn't want to provide SSN. For example, a player who's been losing has bought in for $4,000 two different times (now in for $8k)....if he tries to buy in a third time for another $4k (putting him at $12k -> CTR), then when the pit boss tells him he needs his SSN & name to fill out a CTR, that they can't just give the player back the cash, but must continue with the transaction. I don't know if that's true or not. I vaguely remember either reading that on some Title 31 stuff, although I certainly may be mistaken on that one and mis-interpreted something or was given bad info. If that is true, though, (that the transaction must continue) -- then what happens?
That's not correct. The transaction is terminated unless the correct paperwork (depending on if they are a U.S. Citizen or not) is filled out. Cash in or out over $10,000, either way.
In both casinos I've worked at, the customer must then leave the property and may not play again until the paperwork is complete. A SAR is usually filed as well. This may not be the policy of all casinos though.
One filled out, we don't require anything on subsequent days if we know who they are or present ID that allows us to verify the paperwork has been previously completed.
ZCore13
Quote: RSSSN isn't required for a CTR if you're cashing out (idk about buying in...more on that below). Bob N and I believe DRich would attest to that as well.
Since we're on the subject...... I was under the impression that as soon as someone attempts to surpass the CTR threshold, the transaction must continue, even if the player doesn't want to provide SSN. For example, a player who's been losing has bought in for $4,000 two different times (now in for $8k)....if he tries to buy in a third time for another $4k (putting him at $12k -> CTR), then when the pit boss tells him he needs his SSN & name to fill out a CTR, that they can't just give the player back the cash, but must continue with the transaction. I don't know if that's true or not. I vaguely remember either reading that on some Title 31 stuff, although I certainly may be mistaken on that one and mis-interpreted something or was given bad info. If that is true, though, (that the transaction must continue) -- then what happens?
Once the transaction is attempted, then the information is required. We will not complete the transaction without the DL and SSN. If the information is not obtained, we must ban the guest from any play until they can provide the information. It is called an AML ban. As soon as the information is provided, the ban will instantly be lifted.
