USA Tipping and guilt tripping
Firstly tipping its self drives me crazy because it doesn't seem logical.
I have no problem leaving a few dollars to a cocktail server or a waitress at a restaurant.
I suppose if their boss is to stingy to share the businesses profits with them I can spare a small amount of
money to pay them for their services.
If I have to tip $4 to be served a $20 meal why do I have to tip $40 to be served a $200 meal or risked being socially shunned.
The $200 server does nothing the $20 one doesn't.
When it comes to gambling tipping is totally crazy.
Im an Advantage player so I usually only gamble when there is something putting the odds of the game in my favour.
Overtime Ive won a substantial amount of money and I keep records so i can see the effect of tipping.
Gambling goes up and down like a yo yo but every time I win Im expected to give the dealer large amounts of money
as some kind of reward for dealing me a few good hands as if he caused it somehow. Theres always some chubby middle aged woman at the table
to guilt trip me for holding back as the dealer shakes their head disapprovingly.
Following their stupid tipping policy puts the dealer on a wage of hundreds of dollars per hour just for dealing cards.
Ive tried min tipping a few dollars here and there but it just gets me treated like I didn't tip at all.
There is a screwed up line of thinking that on a big win like a jackpot hit of $50,000 the dealer should be tipped a large amount like $1000+.
What if the person that just won has a mortgage and a modest salary can they really justify paying somebody $1000 for dealing cards.
They arnt going to hit the jackpot everyday and the $1000 will make a big difference to their life.
So my question is what am I supposed to do about tipping thats fair its got to the point that I dread winning because of the tipp guilt trip I have to go through in the USA.
Mark.
Quote: gamblor88tipping its self drives me crazy because it doesn't seem logical.
.
Most of the world embraces tipping and has
for a couple hundred years. The logic is,
a person performed a service and you
reward them with a monetary tip. I know
you understand that, quit acting like you
don't.. Be a cheapskate or act like you're
sophisticated, it's up to you.
Ya know, I would love to visit down under
just to tip. I would do it everywhere, just
to bug the crap out of them. Join the 21st
century already..
I personally thought tipping was the norm, but once I started traveling outside of U.S. for work and vacationing, I realized that only US, Canada, and a few Western European countries practice tipping. In some cultures, tipping is actually an insult. Especially in East Asian countries.
For your example on restraunts, don't think of it as tipping. Actually, many countries that doesn't practice tipping adds a 10-20% charge on your bill for food that is split among the staff. It's called a service charge. That's just how the food industry works I guess.
Quote: ijks
many countries that doesn't practice tipping adds a 10-20% charge on your bill for food that is split among the staff. It's called a service charge. That's just how the food industry works I guess.
So, basically tipping IS the norm (at least in restaurants), but some places automatically charge you, while others you add it on yourself.
Almost all restaurants (that are decent or better), at least that I've been to in the US, automatically charge some % (like 16 or 20) if there are 6 or more people at your table.
But I don't see anything wrong with tipping $100 on a $50,000 jackpot either.
Some APs don't tip after a big win. They'd rather tip nothing and not be appreciated than tip a modest amount and not be appreciated. I completely agree.
In my mind this is fair and logical and doesn't create any social tension or case staff to play guilt trip games.
A meal is advertised at say $10(Including Tax)+ 10% service charge. Its all upfront when I sit down to eat Ive made an agreement.
I know exactly what im going to pay for and exactly what im going to get.
If all is well I pay $11 and leave and everybody is happy. If the service was bad I pay $10 and withhold the service charge
to show I was unhappy with the service.
Now if the server does something amazing maybe I might leave a small tip as well on but it is certainly not expected.
A culture has developed in the USA where companies are greedy and do now want to divide the profits of their business fairly with the staff. This is especially true in the casino industry where many dealers are on minimum wage. So the burden of supporting the dealer
falls on the players. I would prefer to pay the dealer a fee service fee for dealing me cards. Say $8 per hour weather I win or lose.
Dealing cards is not a skilled job. Its irrelevant weather I win or lose. If six players at the table all did this then the dealer would often get over $50 per hour including their min wages.
Do you think a policy like this would be well accepted ???. I dont think so. Most gamblers are idiots that live in the moment they dont realize that when then keep throwing the dealer $25 every 10 minutes its going to add up to hundreds of dollars per hour for the service of dealing cards. The staff have developed special guilt trip games they play on people to keep the tips coming and people are not thinkers and dont question things.
Now all I really want when I gamble is to be left alone. If I dont tip at all social tension mounts. If I min tip a fair amount that works out
to be say $8 an hour social tension still mounts. I think to myself whats the point maybe I shouldn't tip at all im not going to pay
$150 per hour which seems to be the required amount to just to keep the peace.
Quote: gamblor88
$150 per hour which seems to be the required amount to just to keep the peace.
You must be playing in casinos/tables where people have a lot of money to piss around. Sit down at a $5 minimum table in a location that isn't Vegas. If a dealer gets $10 from the entire table in an hour, that's a pretty good hour. If you are at a table that is consistently tossing greens to the dealer though, I wouldn't bother tipping, because tipping a red looks worse than not tipping at all. If you're there for a long time, you can tip something when you leave if you feel the need.
I bet Paigowdan wished he averaged $50/hr when dealing.
Quote: gamblor88There is a screwed up line of thinking that on a big win like a jackpot hit of $50,000 the dealer should be tipped a large amount like $1000+.
First, I agree with you that tipping has gone too far in this country and become too complicated to keep up with the etiquette.
I'm not going to get into tipping for every situation but will say that if you hit a jackpot of $50,000 then you wouldn't be expected to tip $1,000. I'm not the authority on this area, but I think 0.5% would be fine, or $250. I would consider $500 generous.
Quote: gamblor88I have no problem leaving a few dollars to a cocktail server or a waitress at a restaurant.
I suppose if their boss is to stingy to share the businesses profits with them I can spare a small amount of
money to pay them for their services.
If I have to tip $4 to be served a $20 meal why do I have to tip $40 to be served a $200 meal or risked being socially shunned.
The $200 server does nothing the $20 one doesn't.
Quote: gamblor88The tipping system used in most parts of the world is Service charge.
In my mind this is fair and logical and doesn't create any social tension or case staff to play guilt trip games.
A meal is advertised at say $10(Including Tax)+ 10% service charge. Its all upfront when I sit down to eat Ive made an agreement.
I know exactly what im going to pay for and exactly what im going to get.
This seems a bit hypocritical; you're not objecting to tipping, you're objecting to how it's done in the US. And you've somehow got the idea that a service charge pre-added to the bill is optional? Not around here, it's not.
Plan on tipping 10% and order accordingly, since you're comfortable with that amount. End of story.
As for tipping dealers, a red now and then is sufficient. It's not necessary to throw around black and green unless you care what the other people at the table think, including the house staff. And why should you care? You're from Australia, where it's not done.
Quote: WizardFirst, I agree with you that tipping has gone too far in this country and become too complicated to keep up with the etiquette.
I'm not going to get into tipping for every situation but will say that if you hit a jackpot of $50,000 then you wouldn't be expected to tip $1,000. I'm not the authority on this area, but I think 0.5% would be fine, or $250. I would consider $500 generous.
The issue here though, for me, is that it's still percentage based... Even though I almost always tip 20% standard, I still hate the percentage based tip. In the example given earlier by gamblor:
Quote: gamblor88If I have to tip $4 to be served a $20 meal why do I have to tip $40 to be served a $200 meal or risked being socially shunned. The $200 server does nothing the $20 one doesn't.
I agree with this. No one "worked harder" or provided better service than the other. They both provided the exact same service (by averages) so why is it percentage based? If I'm going to tip someone $5 for bringing me a burger, why wouldn't I tip someone $5 for bringing me steak? Apparently the food content matters?
$100 doesn't mean the world to me, but I'm not so well off that I would scoff at $100. I don't understand why if I win a $100,000 jackpot (especially on a slot machine where there isn't even a dealer - just someone bringing you your money) it's so "taboo" to tip like $50, or $100... Hell, if you take a step back to think about it... Why on Earth is it so "taboo" to tip whatever you would tip for them just bringing you something? Again, does the contents of what they bring you change their service/job? I personally don't think so.
Quote: WizardFirst, I agree with you that tipping has gone too far in this country and become too complicated to keep up with the etiquette.
I'm not going to get into tipping for every situation but will say that if you hit a jackpot of $50,000 then you wouldn't be expected to tip $1,000. I'm not the authority on this area, but I think 0.5% would be fine, or $250. I would consider $500 generous.
How about 0.5% after taxes? Of course someone winning $50,000 may not be splitting hairs when it comes to tipping.
They have basically ignored me, treated me like filth on their shoe, before I hit a jackpot, then descend like flies on manure, obsequiously trying to wheedle a tip.
Bah.
Quote: MrVI don't mind tipping at a craps table, especially when the crew is helpful, but I balk at tipping a slot attendant after a hand pay.
They have basically ignored me, treated me like filth on their shoe, before I hit a jackpot, then descend like flies on manure, obsequiously trying to wheedle a tip.
Bah.
Do what I do at the blackjack table. Call the waitress or the cleaning guy over in front of the attendant and give them the tip. It'll make you feel tingly all over. My wife did that at Harrah's in New Orleans recently and it was priceless.
Quote: gamblor88Im from Australia and Im having trouble deciding on a tipping policy here in the USA.
Firstly tipping its self drives me crazy because it doesn't seem logical.
I have no problem leaving a few dollars to a cocktail server or a waitress at a restaurant.
I suppose if their boss is to stingy to share the businesses profits with them I can spare a small amount of
money to pay them for their services.
If I have to tip $4 to be served a $20 meal why do I have to tip $40 to be served a $200 meal or risked being socially shunned.
The $200 server does nothing the $20 one doesn't.
\
Mark.
This isn't Australia. American workers have very little political representation and very little legal protection, by first world standards. Also, being without a job is much harder because of issues like health care, so employees are often at the mercy of their employers.
Tipping is perfectly logical here, because when customers pay workers directly, they often make a good living. If the cost of labor was included in your bill, the owner would charge you the maximum possible and pay the minimum possible to the employees. In other words, your food would cost just about the same as food + tip, but your waiter would make 30k a year instead of 50k.
It's slightly unfair that waiters in more expensive restaurants make more money. But I guess similar patterns apply to salesmen and many other professions. Anyway, I like for there to be as many well paying jobs as possible. So I'm glad some waiters do well and do not wish all waiters earned Denny's money. However, I will tip a much higher % on very cheap meals.
Moreover, more expensive restaurants often have a bigger staff with more attention devoted to fewer tables. On top of that, the turn over will be slower in a nicer restaurant.
Quote: 1BBDo what I do at the blackjack table. Call the waitress or the cleaning guy over in front of the attendant and give then the tip. It'll make you feel tingly all over. My wife did that at Harrah's in New Orleans recently and it was priceless.
+1. My new tactic for bad service is to transfer the tip money not earned to a bathroom attendant or someone else who will value it. I very rarely feel I've received bad service in Vegas, though I don't play table games much.
Quote: RomesThe issue here though, for me, is that it's still percentage based... Even though I almost always tip 20% standard, I still hate the percentage based tip. In the example given earlier by gamblor:
I agree with this. No one "worked harder" or provided better service than the other. They both provided the exact same service (by averages) so why is it percentage based? If I'm going to tip someone $5 for bringing me a burger, why wouldn't I tip someone $5 for bringing me steak? Apparently the food content matters?
I would argue that you're probably getting better service at a restaurant that serves $5 hamburgers and $40 steaks. Still, the percentage argument makes some sense. This has been discussed before, but I don't think it makes sense to tip the same 20% on a $1,000 bottle of wine vs. $100.
Please just tip 15% (10% for expensive stuff if you must) and accept that it is a cost shifted from the menu price to your "good will" voluntary tip. In most states tipped employees are paid something like $3 an hour, called tip credit, your tips are pretty much their entire wage (I tip 20-30% on $10 meals in Virginia for this reason). If we're talking about silly items like a $1000 bottle of wine, then there's a thread for that I guess?
As to gaming tipping, I agree that there is nothing wrong with $100 on a $50k win. On table games, just don't tip then. What are they going to do, give the dealer continuous blackjacks? If it angers you enough, then just stiff them. As above though, you could see it as a cost shifted from the casino odds to your "good will" and give them $5 an hour (this one is harder to visualize when you see 6:5 blackjack tables). Honestly, that's usually what I settle with, $5-10 an hour depending on service. This one annoys me too, so I get it.
Edit: I may have used "server" where I meant "waiter". So yeah, server is a person unique at higher end places they'd have to share their tips with, I'm sure there are many more.
Quote: BuzzardI have no problem with people who do not tip. If you are cheap, then you are CHEAP. Just spare me all the bullshit about why you don't tip. It's because you are CHEAP
It's a matter of degree, isn't it?
Am I cheap if I tip five or ten percent?
What about fifteen?
There is no rule which controls the subject.
Now an interesting one for me is housekeeping at a hotel. If you call down and ask for extra towels or something of that nature, then to me that is a service personalized to you and you should tip. But the idea that you should leave a tip in the morning as you leave so the maid will do their job to clean the room for the next guest, makes no sense to me.
Quote: BuzzardMy reference was to those who never tip. And yes we have some members here.
That never tip for ANYTHING???
Gaming, yes, there are a few that don't tip their dealers at all, but I don't recall that they stiffed waiters/waitresses regularly as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4sbYy0WdGQ
A: Both leave a tip when they're done.
Quote: BuzzardMy reference was to those who never tip. And yes we have some members here.
I don't recall encountering a person that never tips andcertainly not on this forum. That would be extremely rare, unheard of by most of us. There are those, myself included, who are selective in our tipping. I am a very generous tipper but I don't tip blackjack dealers. They would call me cheap but they would be wrong. My money my rules. I owe no one an explanation.
You've enjoyed a wonderful meal at your favorite restaurant. The service was superb and you leave a nice tip. On your next visit the food was not up to your expectations. The service was superb. Do you withhold the tip? Of course you don't.
You play blackjack at a casino. You win a tidy sum and the dealer was great in every way. You tip. On your next visit you lose more than you wanted to. The dealer was great in every way. You don't tip because you lost. WHY? How is that different from the restaurant example? That is the policy of many players, including some on this forum. I'm up front about my refusal to tip dealers but it's okay to justify stiffing a dealer because you lost? It's okay for a stiff to castigate me for not tipping? Does anyone see the hypocrisy? Anyone who can gamble in a casino can certainly put aside one red chip for a tip win or lose.
I want to hear from one person who uses the excuse of losing to stiff the dealer. Do you leave the casino flat broke every time you lose? Do you blame the dealer for your loss? You must since you only tip when you win. Isn't it easy to be nice when things go our way? It's when the chips are down that you can learn about someone.
Quote: 1BBI don't recall encountering a person that never tips andcertainly not on this forum. That would be extremely rare, unheard of by most of us. There are those, myself included, who are selective in our tipping. I am a very generous tipper but I don't tip blackjack dealers. They would call me cheap but they would be wrong. My money my rules. I owe no one an explanation.
You've enjoyed a wonderful meal at your favorite restaurant. The service was superb and you leave a nice tip. On your next visit the food was not up to your expectations. The service was superb. Do you withhold the tip? Of course you don't.
You play blackjack at a casino. You win a tidy sum and the dealer was great in every way. You tip. On your next visit you lose more than you wanted to. The dealer was great in every way. You don't tip because you lost. WHY? How is that different from the restaurant example? That is the policy of many players, including some on this forum. I'm up front about my refusal to tip dealers but it's okay to justify stiffing a dealer because you lost? It's okay for a stiff to castigate me for not tipping? Does anyone see the hypocrisy? Anyone who can gamble in a casino can certainly put aside one red chip for a tip win or lose.
I want to hear from one person who uses the excuse of losing to stiff the dealer. Do you leave the casino flat broke every time you lose? Do you blame the dealer for your loss? You must since you only tip when you win. Isn't it easy to be nice when things go our way? It's when the chips are down that you can learn about someone.
A lot of tipping etiquette is based on custom. Most all dealers accept that most all players, who do tip, tip only after or during a winning session. I have never heard a sarcastic remark from a dealer when a player who's been losing leaves the table without leaving a tip.
Quote: GreasyjohnA lot of tipping etiquette is based on custom. Most all dealers accept that most all players, who do tip, tip only after or during a winning session. I have never heard a sarcastic remark from a dealer when a player who's been losing leaves the table without leaving a tip.
I realize that the dealers understand but I see it as a cop out. The dealer doesn't make anyone lose. They still have to pay their bills. Anyone wagering thousands of dollars can certainly reserve one lousy red chip for the dealer.
I appreciate you responding, Greasyjohn. I've brought this up several times and I think you're the first to give your thoughts. Some players may not want to face the fact that they are a stiff just like me.
To tip or not to tip. It's a somewhat personal decision and I respect everyone's choice. For the dealers who pool tips, I've said it before. Police yourselves. You may deserve a tip but you're not getting one until you all deserve it. You can hustle, cajole, berate, try to intimidate, break down payouts or anything else you can think of but you're wasting your time.
Quote: GreasyjohnA lot of tipping etiquette is based on custom. Most all dealers accept that most all players, who do tip, tip only after or during a winning session. I have never heard a sarcastic remark from a dealer when a player who's been losing leaves the table without leaving a tip.
It's definitely a tradition thing. I remember watching some casino video my father inexplicably bought when I was younger and the guy on the video looked straight out of the 70s. The thing I can remember the most about the video was the guy trying to brainwash in your head: "Tip only if you win... never if you lose".
Do i follow that? No, but if I win I likely tip more. Last time I played a table game, I got shallacked at "high card flush". The dealer was ending his hour and I gave him a little bit "for the effort". He was still quite appreciative, but I also think he was a bit shocked I have him anything after the beating I took.
I have never had a hand pay. If I ever do, the casino can pay the attendant from the house edge they've been taking every time I press the button. There is no service here.... the hand pay is not for my convenience, its for them to check the game was fair.
----Peter Griffin
If you do not tip because of this, when you are playing do you ever bitch, complain or whine to the dealer about the cards when playing?
Do you ever say things like:
-the dealer always has a face card
-the dealer never busts
-the dealer always has a blackjack
-you always deal me a 14, 15, 16,
-you always give me a face card when I hit my 12
-you always give me a blackjack when I lower my bet
-you never give me good cards on my splits/double downs
-etc, etc, etc
If you NEVER do or say any of these things, go ahead and not tip. But if you ever do bitch, complain, whine or say any of these things, you should at least tip if you are winning since if you can blame the dealer for bad cards, which the dealer has no control over, you should be able to reward the dealer for good cards.
Don't forget though: A tip is EARNED.
But if you can't afford to tip for a great service...then perhaps you can't afford to go out?
My advice? Tip the one's who earned it and forget the one's who push you for it. If they don't like it, then perhaps they should seek another job or just go outside and beg for it. Do you honestly believe that I would tip someone for being rude to me?! But I have no issue with tipping someone who is nice or good at their job. (Plus it puts me under the "counting" radar...and I only tip a little every now and then.)
Quote: AxelWolfFair tip for Limo driver from Reno to Tahoe? Do casino VIP limo drivers get paid more than a regular paid limo service?
Enough so they don't think you jewed them.
Quote: AxelWolfFair tip for Limo driver from Reno to Tahoe? Do casino VIP limo drivers get paid more than a regular paid limo service?
That's like what, an hour drive?
$20.
Within vegas, I usually tip $10 for casino limo rides to/from the airport. $5 for rides to another property (since those rides are only like 5 minutes).
Taxis I tip either a dollar, or if they try to long haul me or try to hustle me to go to any strip club or something, $0.
Yes but they drive down from Tahoe, meet you in the airport, they fully stock it with booze, snacks and whatever, I think $20 is at least $5 to low.Quote: sc15That's like what, an hour drive?
$20.
Within vegas, I usually tip $10 for casino limo rides to/from the airport. $5 for rides to another property (since those rides are only like 5 minutes).
Taxis I tip either a dollar, or if they try to long haul me or try to hustle me to go to any strip club or something, $0.
Quote: AxelWolfYes but they drive down from Tahoe, meet you in the airport, they fully stock it with booze, snacks and whatever, I think $20 is at least $5 to low.
Oh, maybe $30 then.
Most casino limos I've been in don't have booze and what not. Just some waters.
Quote: sc15That's like what, an hour drive?
$20.
Within vegas, I usually tip $10 for casino limo rides to/from the airport. $5 for rides to another property (since those rides are only like 5 minutes).
Taxis I tip either a dollar, or if they try to long haul me or try to hustle me to go to any strip club or something, $0.
Damn I guess I overtip - I usually give casino limo driver $25 from airport to casino
Quote: aceofspadesDamn I guess I overtip - I usually give casino limo driver $25 from airport to casino
http://www.taxiautofare.com/us/taxi-fare/Las%20Vegas-taxi-fare-from-Pahrump,-NV-to-McCarran-Airport
You will end up thanking me. Will the casino comp a trip out to the Chicken Ranch in a limo? I would nearly pay just to see the look on their faces when somebody decent looking and nice climbs out of a limo and goes in for a game of pool and a view of the line-up.
Quote: petroglyphhttp://www.taxiautofare.com/us/taxi-fare/Las%20Vegas-taxi-fare-from-Pahrump,-NV-to-McCarran-Airport
You will end up thanking me. Will the casino comp a trip out to the Chicken Ranch in a limo? I would nearly pay just to see the look on their faces when somebody decent looking and nice climbs out of a limo and goes in for a game of pool and a view of the line-up.
I have no desire to partake in what the Chicken Ranch has to offer.
