Celebrate Religion here
I'm sorry I may have misunderstood your question. Atheism is religious in nature because it's a world view and a belief (that our existence doesn't depend on God). Both are religious in nature.Quote: NareedHow?
I treat the claim of a deity the same way I treat claims of astrology, phrenology, numerology, etc. I require evidence for such claims. If any is available, the evidence can be reviewed and assesed.
There are faith-based ideologies with practices approaching religious conventions, complete with dogma, ritual, sins, penance, indulgences, etc. Politics is rife with it. But calling it an atheistic religion misses the point. Religious people may not adhere to a faith or church, but they're not atheists.
Out of love tell them they are wrong.Quote: 1BBWhat do you guys do when Jehova's Witnesses come calling? Insult them? Kick them out? Sic the dogs on them? Once a year they make the trek up the very long driveway to my main residence. When they do I treat them cordially and politely just as I would anyone else. They have always been very nice even after I make it clear that I'm not interested.
Quote: pewI'm sorry I may have misunderstood your question. Atheism is religious in nature because it's a world view and a belief (that our existence doesn't depend on God). Both are religious in nature.
Not most of the atheists I know (and as you might guess, I know several). For most of us it's not a belief but a conclusion. It's also not a world view. religion provides a world-view, yes, but so does philosophy.
In fact, religion is best understood as a philosophical system, complete with metaphysics, epistemology, ethics and politics. So, while there are different philosophical system not dependent on any deity, atheistic if you wish, these are not religion.
Science, BTW, is a tool, not a philosophy. When people speak of pitting science against religion it's as though they were thinking of race between a car and computer.
I think your definition of religion illustrates exactly my point about atheism being religious. You're welcome to use another word but a rose is a rose. Science is the same for believers and non believers. Water boils at 212- F. at sea level for everyone whether God exists or not. Are you saying you don't have a world view because you are an atheist?Quote: NareedNot most of the atheists I know (and as you might guess, I know several). For most of us it's not a belief but a conclusion. It's also not a world view. religion provides a world-view, yes, but so does philosophy.
In fact, religion is best understood as a philosophical system, complete with metaphysics, epistemology, ethics and politics. So, while there are different philosophical system not dependent on any deity, atheistic if you wish, these are not religion.
Science, BTW, is a tool, not a philosophy. When people speak of pitting science against religion it's as though they were thinking of race between a car and computer.
Quote: pewI think your definition of religion illustrates exactly my point about atheism being religious.
You're starting to sound like an Orthodox Jew who thinks all words mean God.
I convert them to Atheism.Quote: 1BBWhat do you guys do when Jehova's Witnesses come calling? Insult them? Kick them out? Sic the dogs on them? Once a year they make the trek up the very long driveway to my main residence. When they do I treat them cordially and politely just as I would anyone else. They have always been very nice even after I make it clear that I'm not interested.
Quote: pewAtheism is religious in nature...
No it isn't. Discussing it might make it seem to be, but in real living it is not an issue at all... just like religion is not a part of the life of most Christians. Atheists pretty much go about life like everyone else, except we don't go to church. Atheism is the absence of religion, without doctrines, without tenets.
Quote: NareedYou're starting to sound like an Orthodox Jew who thinks all words mean God.
I'll give some background for those who are curious. Pew's second post on the site was in the "There Is No God" thread:
Quote: pewI would like to end this discussion once and for all. It's quite simple. God is an actuality. (you can quote me on that)
Several weeks later, he posted this:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/religion/7360-there-is-no-god/91/#post247327
He was challenged over the next several days, most notably by Face. Here's an example:
Quote: FaceThe above is one of two things. Either 1) an atheist sockpuppet purposely trying to make the religious look absurd, or 2) a theist that singlehandedly defines my biggest issue with certain religious persons - close minded arrogance
Basically, pew argues that the scientific consensus is wrong on a variety of issues.
Bottom line: God exists. Oh, and atheism is a religion.
Quote: 1BBWhat do you guys do when Jehova's Witnesses come calling? .
I had a friend who's wife was sucked into
JW and it took her 8 years to get away
from them. They're a cult and run every
aspect of your life. He finally got sick
of it and told a JW friend of his wifes that
he really enjoyed the oral sex they had.
This is strictly against JW law and she
got 'shunned' for a month and he had
her deprogrammed and she never went
back.
It's like a drug, she still wants to go back
years later but knows it's deadly.
Quote: 1BBWhat do you guys do when Jehova's Witnesses come calling?
I always greet them in a friendly manner, but I confront their beliefs.
One morning two Witnesses came by and we began a discussion. After a few more visits, one of them said to me "This (being a JW) is the only thing in my life that I have done right. I'm strong in my Faith. I couldn't even read before this. Now I can read and I have skills.
He explained that all of their printing, electrical work, plumbing, masonry and carpentry is done voluntarily by male and female members who are trained in these skills free of charge by the organization.
He also explained that they always maintain a good appearance and keep their homes and apartments spotless because they believe they are always in the Lord's presence and He is always present in their home.
A fellow I know owns a number of apartments. After years of dealing with problem tenants, he decided to call the local Kingdom Hall any time he needed a tenant.
No more problem tenants.
They're quiet, clean and they always pay the rent.
Quote: s2dbakerI convert them to Atheism.
Love it! Now, who answers the door naked? Fess up, guys.
Quote: gpac1377I'll give some background for those who are curious.
Thank you. That clears things up.
Quote:Bottom line: God exists. Oh, and atheism is a religion.
And apaprently so is philosophy, science, and maybe a host of other thigns. I wasn't joking about Orthodox Jews. I once heard one of them explain a prayer, and about a quarter of the words in it, like palce, time, feeling, and others, were explained as meaning or standing for "God." I had to leave or burst out laughing.
A Higgs Boson walks into church and the priest says, "We don't allow Higgs Bosons in here." The Higgs Boson replies, but without me, how can you have mass?
Quote: WizardJoke Time!
"How's your son doing? Has he found a job yet?"
"No, but he has taken up meditation."
"Oh good, at least he's not sitting around doing nothing."
Quote: WizardJoke Time!
And the bartender looks up and says, "Hey, buddy! We don't serve faster-than-light neutrinos here!"
A neutrino walks into a bar....
Religious Sister on The Voice
Quote: 1BBLove it! Now, who answers the door naked? Fess up, guys.
Two words: "Megan's Law."
For which reason I always keep around an XL sundress to answer the door in.
Maybe it was his age…I don't know. Apparently gambling was a big no-no. I loved him anyway.
Quote: FrGambleThis was really touching, even if you don't speak Italian you can get the gist of what they are discussing. At one point one of the judges asks her what she thinks the Vatican would think of her doing this and she responds that she is waiting for a telephone call from Pope Francis...awesome.
Religious Sister on The Voice
They seem to have taken down the Vatican link, so here's the youtube clip with subtitles available:
And they should have it's blasphemy.Quote: beachbumbabs
They seem to have taken down the Vatican link
Come on, lots of people here would love to meet you.
Quote: FrGambleHey everybody I have been two busy to really post much at all here or at Diversity Tomorrow and that is part of the reason that I'm saying goodbye to the Wizard of Vegas Forum.
I understand completely and will continue to enjoy your posts at DT.
Quote: FrGambleI do plan on going to Vegas for a WoVCon next year. My powerlifting I think will bring me there and I would love to meet so many of the great people on this forum.
Good. I will be starting weight exercises when I get home and will surely have questions for you then ;)
Seriously, I would love to meet you and am glad you plan on attending next year.
Perhaps I should be a spiritual director, I had the same view. Personally, I say you should be able to gamble all you want. I just don't think God likes gambling and there is really only one reason to gamble, and that's to try to WIN money. I think in gods eyes money should be WORKED for only and only enough to take care of yourself and family -10%.Quote: FrGambleThat along with my spiritual director helping me to see that gambling is maybe not the best hobby to be associated with a priest.
I wonder what your spiritual directors views are on whether or not god has humor ;)
Good luck or positive variance. Leading people towards god is much like gabeling, play enough hands (talk to enough people) and eventually you hit something. Once in a while you hit the jackpot and bring in a wale or save a life. Perhaps Godspeed is a better word.
it will certainly be a loss to the site when you go.
Quote: AxelWolf
it will certainly be a loss to the site when you go.
Amen
Will you be asking The Wizard if can make an exception so you can change your handle?Quote: FrGambleHey everybody I have been two busy to really post much at all here or at Diversity Tomorrow and that is part of the reason that I'm saying goodbye to the Wizard of Vegas Forum. At the same time I will continue to say hello and post over at DT. It's been over a year since I've gambled and its magic charm of figuring out the odds and strategy have waned. That along with my spiritual director helping me to see that gambling is maybe not the best hobby to be associated with a priest. It is not that gambling is inherently evil, it is not as the Catechism of the Church makes clear, but many people are hurt by an addiction to it (including some parishioners) and in solidarity with them I'd like to remove myself from a forum so directly attached to gambling. I thank God for the Wizard and for his other site Diversity Tomorrow because it gives me an opportunity to continue to discuss things like religion with a eclectic wonderful group of people such as yourselves. Thanks for everything and maybe I'll see you over at DT some time. God Bless!
Quote: FrGambleHey everybody I have been two busy to really post much at all here or at Diversity Tomorrow and that is part of the reason that I'm saying goodbye to the Wizard of Vegas Forum. At the same time I will continue to say hello and post over at DT. It's been over a year since I've gambled and its magic charm of figuring out the odds and strategy have waned. That along with my spiritual director helping me to see that gambling is maybe not the best hobby to be associated with a priest. It is not that gambling is inherently evil, it is not as the Catechism of the Church makes clear, but many people are hurt by an addiction to it (including some parishioners) and in solidarity with them I'd like to remove myself from a forum so directly attached to gambling. I thank God for the Wizard and for his other site Diversity Tomorrow because it gives me an opportunity to continue to discuss things like religion with a eclectic wonderful group of people such as yourselves. Thanks for everything and maybe I'll see you over at DT some time. God Bless!
Darn it. I never got to ask what you thought of the Holy Roller blackjack team. Perhaps you can answer at DT for your 200th post.
A lady who came here from China was arrested for allegedly throwing an apple at her husband; he is by report an abusive POS who lied his way out of an arrest and pinned it on her due to her limited ability to speak English; she was immediately ordered out of her home, lost her job due to the charge, was destitute, and lived initially in a shelter, stunned, depressed, and in abject misery.
A friend arranged temporary shelter in my neighborhood, at a kind-hearted soul's home; two Mormons came knocking on day, they talked to the Chinese lady, and now she is moving into the home of a Mormon lady.
She told me, in her halting English, that she is genuinely impressed with the kindness of the Mormon parishoners who approached her at church services and during her other contacts with them: that is the deciding factor.
She cares not a whit about the rather, ahem, "unusual" religious notions of the Mormons; for her it is all about how the people are so nice, and make her feel welcome and wanted.
Another successful missionary story.
Quote: MrVI saw an example of "mission completed" by a couple of Mormon missionaries...
We can say all we want about their beliefs, but every single Mormon I've ever met has been very nice. Wonderful people.
Good folk.
And hell, if it wasn't for the Mormons setting up a bank in town and lending to the wise guys when nobody else would, Las Vegas wouldn't be what it is today.
For that matter, neither would Steve Wynn.
You will be missed here. I think you should stay, but it's not up to me.
Quote: FrGambleHey everybody I have been two busy to really post much at all here or at Diversity Tomorrow and that is part of the reason that I'm saying goodbye to the Wizard of Vegas Forum. At the same time I will continue to say hello and post over at DT. It's been over a year since I've gambled and its magic charm of figuring out the odds and strategy have waned. That along with my spiritual director helping me to see that gambling is maybe not the best hobby to be associated with a priest. It is not that gambling is inherently evil, it is not as the Catechism of the Church makes clear, but many people are hurt by an addiction to it (including some parishioners) and in solidarity with them I'd like to remove myself from a forum so directly attached to gambling. I thank God for the Wizard and for his other site Diversity Tomorrow because it gives me an opportunity to continue to discuss things like religion with a eclectic wonderful group of people such as yourselves. Thanks for everything and maybe I'll see you over at DT some time. God Bless!
Well, you will certainly be missed. Often your posts are wrong (ie, differ from my views) but at least they are interesting and thought provoking and often well researched.
I do not think it wrong for a priest to have an interest in boxing or in firearms or anything else. If a church claims to be a welcoming institution then it should indeed welcome a priest who has an academic interest in calculating odds just as it would welcome a priest who specializes in the baking of breads or fruitcakes or a priest who has an interest in investments rather than just his vestments.
A priest who is successful at getting teenagers off the streets and out of the pool halls might be viewed by his church as successful, but he is more likely to achieve that success if he actually knows something about music, dancing and playing pool. If all a priest knows is how to read Latin and mumble lengthy sermons it is unlikely he will be viewed as successful. If he knows how to dance, how to box, how to shoot pool or how to shoot craps he will find those skills make him helpful to the church. A priest who walks into a pool hall will be respected and allowed to deliver a brief sermon, but a priest who walks into a pool hall and chalks up a cue stick will be allowed to deliver a more lengthy sermon and the pool players will actually listen to him when he does it, for they will respect not only the cloth but also his skill with a cue stick and will consider him to be a part of the real world rather than a part of something that is aloof and separate from real people.
The Mormons played a role in financing Las Vegas but I think the mob simply preferred it that way, they didn't really need it that way.Quote: MrVAnd hell, if it wasn't for the Mormons setting up a bank in town and lending to the wise guys when nobody else would, Las Vegas wouldn't be what it is today.
The primary role of the Mormons in Las Vegas was their honesty. They did not gamble but could work in a casino. The mob loved having Mormons in the cashier's cage or at the dealers tables.
Alot of those well-endowed Blackjack dealers grew up in Salt Lake City where playing cards were referred to as The Devil's Portraits and not a single deck of cards was ever in their homes much less in their hands. Its a rather major transformation for a Mormon girl to go to Las Vegas where the focus in on cards, chips and cleavage. They are liked by the casinos because they generally cling to their values and therefore work diligently and don't steal chips.
Of course none of this means the US did not have to fight the Mormon wars or that the expedition that was led into the Mountain Meadows encampment was not led into a trap. When the settlers dressed the two youngest girls all in white and sent them out with a water pail, the Utah Territorial Militia (100 percent Mormon) not only opened fire on them but undoubtedly gut-shot them on purpose, rather than by accident. Having two young girls lying in the hot sun dying slowly as the settlers in the encampment grew more and more dehydrated in the hot sun does not give much credit to the Mormon church, nor does the slaughter that took place when the leader of the Territorial Militia later cried out "Do Your Duty!" and the Mormon Militiamen all shot the disarmed settlers they were escorting.
See you over at DT, FrG.
Quote: FleaStiffThe Mormons played a role in financing Las Vegas but I think the mob simply preferred it that way, they didn't really need it that way.
Interesting article: "The Big Secret."
Quote: FleaStiffA priest who walks into a pool hall will be respected and allowed to deliver a brief sermon, but a priest who walks into a pool hall and chalks up a cue stick will be allowed to deliver a more lengthy sermon and the pool players will actually listen to him when he does it, for they will respect not only the cloth but also his skill with a cue stick and will consider him to be a part of the real world rather than a part of something that is aloof and separate from real people.
Not to pile on the guilt, but a big +1 to this.
I find religion to invade my space at times, and as an atheist, it's usually in one ear and out the other. Funerals drive me nuts because it's usually the same, dry, generic b.s. that has nothing to do with the person in the casket. But there are times when the words of God sound off even inside this heathen. 100% of the time, it's because of the personal connection. Take the invocation before a stock car race, for example. I've heard the random generic one from whatever holy man they've pulled off the street, and it's complete fluff. But grab the God-man that has a passion for the sport, and suddenly the words come alive. It's a totally different experience, because there's that connection.
Not trying to twist your arm, I'm just saying. If any of your brethren were to have to console a man with gambling issues, the man that knows gambling has the best chance of reaching him.
See you at DT.
Quote: FrGambleThat along with my spiritual director helping me to see that gambling is maybe not the best hobby to be associated with a priest. It is not that gambling is inherently evil, it is not as the Catechism of the Church makes clear, but many people are hurt by an addiction to it (including some parishioners) and in solidarity with them I'd like to remove myself from a forum so directly attached to gambling.
For the most part, this makes sense. Many lives & families are ruined by compulsive gambling, and even if your own gambling was responsible, I can see how you have an obligation to set an example to your parishners who were engaging in self-destructive behavior.
On the other hand, wine is served at Mass and many lives & families are ruined by alcoholism. So it's curious that gambling in moderation is frowned upon, but drinking in moderation isn't.
Quote: Face. Funerals drive me nuts because it's usually the same, dry, generic b.s. that has nothing to do with the person in the casket. .
Funerals are for the living, not the dead.
I'm an athiest also but I really appreciated how the funerals helped me deal with the passing of both of my parents.
Quote: BuzzardFR.Gamble now joins the ranks of those preaching to the choir. And us sinners are left to fend for ourselves. Whatever happened to Hate the sin , but love the sinner ? ? ?
The shepherd has abandoned his flock. Too many black sheep in here, I guess.
Read your event very shocking...
There are various miracles in religion from which we are not aware..
But some times the stories are true as it gives the exact image to your mind..
I heard a podcast on this topic years ago, sent it to Fr Gamble. Men generally seem to dislike church even though men usually lead it. They never ask why. A few good points, but the best seems to be where he says if the woman of the family is religious 17% of the time the rest will be but if the man of the family is 94% of the time they will be.
