Maryland's Venture
I am not an "opening day" kind of guy so I'm not volunteering. It is only about 45 minutes away, though, the closest action to me yet in our new era [assuming they have action I want].
The big question is, what kind of table games are going to be offered on the electronic table games they are going to place there? If Craps, even if only a 2X odds game, I'm not going to be able to resist unless the table minimum is high [surely no need for that, but you never know]. Some form of electronic BJ and Roulette is almost certain, but I will be less interested.
You know, I have this gambling problem, I don't gamble enough. It's a scandal! The fate of those living in the area save anyone willing to travel just a bit far, or do online gambling [that would not be me]. But it looks like mid-June I will get my fix, definitely doing Harrington DE and just maybe seeing if I can drop back by this new place on the way back to check out the action. There will be a report then at least, so stay tuned.
PS: note that the website is set to go with online gambling. It appears it is for play only now, but seems to me they are planning to be ready if and when they get the go-ahead.
There is a possibility that I'll be taking my wife to Arundel Mills for some shopping; if this occurs....I'll check out the Casino and drop a Trip Report on the forum.
Quote: odiousgambitThe big question is, what kind of table games are going to be offered on the electronic table games they are going to place there? If Craps, even if only a 2X odds game, I'm not going to be able to resist unless the table minimum is high [surely no need for that, but you never know]. Some form of electronic BJ and Roulette is almost certain, but I will be less interested.
The big question to me is whether the table mins WILL be really high. Hollywood Casino in Charles Town, WV reportedly had $50 mins across the casino on BJ, $25 on craps and roulette for a couple months after opening. I met a dealer at HSI who helped open the casino, and she agreed that the mins were set at a ridiculous level, simply because of the proximity to Washington D.C. This place will be closer and probably more accessible. If they are iTables with live dealers, and Rapid Craps and such, $25 mins would not be unheard of.
On a positive note, Charles Town mins (which are now around $15 for BJ from what I've been told) should continue to fall.
Quote: TiltpoulQuote: odiousgambitThe big question is, what kind of table games are going to be offered on the electronic table games they are going to place there? If Craps, even if only a 2X odds game, I'm not going to be able to resist unless the table minimum is high [surely no need for that, but you never know]. Some form of electronic BJ and Roulette is almost certain, but I will be less interested.
The big question to me is whether the table mins WILL be really high. Hollywood Casino in Charles Town, WV reportedly had $50 mins across the casino on BJ, $25 on craps and roulette for a couple months after opening. I met a dealer at HSI who helped open the casino, and she agreed that the mins were set at a ridiculous level, simply because of the proximity to Washington D.C. This place will be closer and probably more accessible. If they are iTables with live dealers, and Rapid Craps and such, $25 mins would not be unheard of.
On a positive note, Charles Town mins (which are now around $15 for BJ from what I've been told) should continue to fall.
Craps table minimums at Charles Town were $10-$25 when I played there in the fall and again a couple of months ago. $10 was often limited to one table, but I was in on weekend nights.
If those minimums hold for electronic games, I'll skip the new casino. it is closer to where I visit in Maryland than Charles Town, but at minimums above about $1, I want real dealers. If the game has the same odds, I guess it doesn't matter...but I don't want a machine calling the dice. it may be the way of the future...and that will save me some money, because I want "live" casino action as opposed to machines.
Quote: TiltpoulIf they are iTables with live dealers, and Rapid Craps and such, $25 mins would not be unheard of.
Live dealers would not seem to be what to expect, but then again real information is hard to find.
Quote: odiousgambitLive dealers would not seem to be what to expect, but then again real information is hard to find.
"Maryland casinos are limited to slot machines."
http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2012/02/16/omalley-not-eager-for-table-games-in-maryland/
The "table games" will be a version of the "real thing" that can be considered a slot machine. I don't think there is any other way to do it within the current law.
Quote: RonC"Maryland casinos are limited to slot machines."
http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2012/02/16/omalley-not-eager-for-table-games-in-maryland/
The "table games" will be a version of the "real thing" that can be considered a slot machine. I don't think there is any other way to do it within the current law.
JFYI: so we can look at your links.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/help/1-formatting-codes/#post1
Quote: RonC"Maryland casinos are limited to slot machines."
http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2012/02/16/omalley-not-eager-for-table-games-in-maryland/
The "table games" will be a version of the "real thing" that can be considered a slot machine. I don't think there is any other way to do it within the current law.
This February article does not mention the Arundel Mills Mall development.
If the "electronic table games" are in fact just slot machines with, say, blackjack etc "themes", that would be something.
The governor had floated the idea before but sounded far more definitive during a gathering with reporters Wednesday afternoon.
Asked if he definitely plans to call a second special session, O’Malley said: “Yes.”
“Certainly we have to address the gaming issue,” O’Malley said. “The presiding officers are pretty committed to it, as am I. ... We have some preparation to do before that time.”
Washington Post May 16
Evidently palms have been greased. LOL
Quote: odiousgambitThis February article does not mention the Arundel Mills Mall development.
If the "electronic table games" are in fact just slot machines with, say, blackjack etc "themes", that would be something.
I agree but i don't see anything where the law has been changed to date, which means that only slot machines seem to be legal. I'm sure there are electronic "table games" that can meet the criteria but they will be slot based and not "live" play from what I have read.
There is some give and take on table games regarding an additional location (I think I read that it was in Prince Georges county) so it is possible that "real" table games may be in play. I just don't think they are in play as this casino opens.
Quote: RonCI agree but i don't see anything where the law has been changed to date, which means that only slot machines seem to be legal. I'm sure there are electronic "table games" that can meet the criteria but they will be slot based and not "live" play from what I have read.
There is some give and take on table games regarding an additional location (I think I read that it was in Prince Georges county) so it is possible that "real" table games may be in play. I just don't think they are in play as this casino opens.
From the press MD Live Casino has put out, they definitely will have electronic versions of roulette, blackjack, mini baccarat (only saw the e-version in Canada before), and Pai Gow. They also released a video overview of the casino, and if you watch carefully, they show the "Organic Roulette" e-roulette system (real wheel and ball operated by computer), as well as the pop-o-matic craps tables I saw in Vegas on my last trip. I believe MD law is loose enough that any game controlled by computer, where a live dealer is in no way involved, is considered a "slot machine" for this purpose. Cordish Cos. (the owner) has really hyped up this casino, and I would be surprised if the intro video for the casino included games they won't offer. In the video, the tables are also aligned exactly the way live table pits would be....*nobody* at MD Live is planning for a switch-over to real tables (wink wink nudge nudge).
Also, if you ever drive out to Hollywood Casino WV, you'll notice the DE casinos put up billboards highlighting the themed slots (Wheel Of Fortune, Sex and the City, Wizard of Oz, etc), they offer that Charles Town does not. MD Live has also taken pains to make sure the released pics of the casino highlight all the machines Charles Town does not offer. I'm just speculating, but I think the e-table mins will stay below Charles Town's live table mins, simply because otherwise you can play live tables out there. Considering Charles Town's parent company spent millions to try and stop MD Live from being built, I'm sure Cordish Cos. is chomping at the bit to chomp away at Charles Town's business.
Anybody recognize the electronic Craps?
Quote: site text on crapsRoll the bones – in a way that’s high-tech! Our state-of-the-art electronic craps table captures the excitement of the traditional game with an exciting new twist.
not sure I'll like the "exciting new twist"
Site Link
Isn't craps best with no twists at all?
Quote: odiousgambitwe are getting more info by slow leak:
Anybody recognize the electronic Craps?
not sure I'll like the "exciting new twist"
Site Link
looks like organic craps:
http://www.interblock.eu/usa/products/G4/dice/
no idea what the new twist would be vs other casinos that have this
I'm curious as everyone else how this is going to turn out...I think MD Live will really take a bite out of Charles Town:
1) All MD businesses (including casinos) are smoke free. Charles Town is smoky as hell.
2) Charles Town limits are quite high ($10+ craps, $15+ everything else). MD Live will likely keep e-table limits below this.
3) Charles Town has no popular slot machines. MD Live has lots of popular slot machines.
4) Charles Town has few food options in the middle of nowhere. MD Live has tons of food options, in the casino, and in and around the mall.
Quote: silversonic2006The Baltimore Sun released a new video of the casino interior, and it looks like MD Live has the full range of Organic E-Tables, including the blackjack with real cards. I'm guessing the "twist" is that it uses real dice and players get to "shoot" but it's an unmanned game. To me, it looks like MD Live is basically a full casino (21, craps, roulette bacc, pai gow, 3CP, Ultimate TX hold em) with all the tables, except they're unmanned. And no multi player poker, from what I can tell.
I'm curious as everyone else how this is going to turn out...I think MD Live will really take a bite out of Charles Town:
1) All MD businesses (including casinos) are smoke free. Charles Town is smoky as hell.
2) Charles Town limits are quite high ($10+ craps, $15+ everything else). MD Live will likely keep e-table limits below this.
3) Charles Town has no popular slot machines. MD Live has lots of popular slot machines.
4) Charles Town has few food options in the middle of nowhere. MD Live has tons of food options, in the casino, and in and around the mall.
I will be in the Washington D.C area next week. I will be driving to Delaware for some Craps play. I will try my best to check out MD Live on my drive back to D.C.
Now you mentioned "Players get to shoot" in Craps at MD Live. Can you explain this further?
Quote: silversonic2006The Baltimore Sun released a new video of the casino interior, and it looks like MD Live has the full range of Organic E-Tables, including the blackjack with real cards. I'm guessing the "twist" is that it uses real dice and players get to "shoot" but it's an unmanned game. To me, it looks like MD Live is basically a full casino (21, craps, roulette bacc, pai gow, 3CP, Ultimate TX hold em) with all the tables, except they're unmanned. And no multi player poker, from what I can tell.
I'm curious as everyone else how this is going to turn out...I think MD Live will really take a bite out of Charles Town:
1) All MD businesses (including casinos) are smoke free. Charles Town is smoky as hell.
2) Charles Town limits are quite high ($10+ craps, $15+ everything else). MD Live will likely keep e-table limits below this.
3) Charles Town has no popular slot machines. MD Live has lots of popular slot machines.
4) Charles Town has few food options in the middle of nowhere. MD Live has tons of food options, in the casino, and in and around the mall.
link to video:
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-casino-arundel-mills-preview-20120529,0,2443275.story
edit:
omg... auto http linking.. thank you JB!
edi2:
omg the camerman and/or film editor should be fired. horrible...
was there an announcement about that?
I'm guessing any dice tossing is in the manner of pressing a button, then the dice would bounce in the dome? Without dealers it would be the only way, right?
Quote: CrapsForeverI will be in the Washington D.C area next week. I will be driving to Delaware for some Craps play. I will try my best to check out MD Live on my drive back to D.C.
Now you mentioned "Players get to shoot" in Craps at MD Live. Can you explain this further?
I have not seen the Organic Craps machines in action, only the "Shoot to Win" machines at the MGM properties in Vegas. But on those, once the roll begins, the pop-o-matic shaker gently bounces the dice, and then the designated "shooter" presses a button that gives the dice a hard final pop, and once the dice settle that's the roll.
I went back to the demo videos for Organic Craps that I could find online, and it looks like this machine doesn't quite work the same way...the machine automatically shakes the dice and stops the shake for the final outcome. So, maybe the "twist" they refer to is very simply that you're playing craps with real dice but there's no dealer, no intimidating high rollers, and the game doesn't slow to a crawl for people making sucker bets.
The Organic Blackjack/Baccarat machine, to me at least, is a truly fascinating mechanical device. It looks cool just to watch it do its thing. You see it at around 1:11 in the video.
I too am interested in the organic baccarat - if nothing else just to see a machine in action! I may hop up the parkway one day at lunch time and check it out a week or so after the true opening madness...
-B
Quote: silversonic20063) Charles Town has no popular slot machines. MD Live has lots of popular slot machines.
I'm guessing your definition of "popular" would be licensed/franchise slot machines, a la Sex in the City, Clue or Ghostbusters. Or are you saying there's no Mr. Cashman, Miss Kitty or any of the Konami ripoffs.
To be honest, the most popular machines long term are the lesser known ones. The problem with franchise machines is that most avid slot players know or believe that the payback is much lower. My mom is a slot player, and I rarely see her play a slot machine like that. She prefers Cleopatra, so as long as the casino has that, she's happy.
Quote: Tiltpoul
The problem with franchise machines is that most avid slot players know or believe that the payback is much lower.
Yup, my wife won't play them because they 'never pay'.
You'll see whole banks of them empty while the other
machines are packed.
Quote: hook3670The Cordish company succedes at every business it launches.
It is shedding shopping centers, including the ballyhooed outlet mall in Atlantic City.
Trip report pls!
i wonder if any specials for signing up on opening day?
Quote: TiltpoulI'm guessing your definition of "popular" would be licensed/franchise slot machines, a la Sex in the City, Clue or Ghostbusters. Or are you saying there's no Mr. Cashman, Miss Kitty or any of the Konami ripoffs.
To be honest, the most popular machines long term are the lesser known ones. The problem with franchise machines is that most avid slot players know or believe that the payback is much lower. My mom is a slot player, and I rarely see her play a slot machine like that. She prefers Cleopatra, so as long as the casino has that, she's happy.
By "popular" I do mean the licensed themes, such as Wheel of Fortune, Sex and the City, etc. I'm sure the licensed machines are "tighter", but someone's clearly playing them....the Wheel of Fortune slots are probably some of the most well-known of all machines, and my wife has to play Sex and the City at off hours to get a seat. What's even more baffling about it is that the Penn National properties in neighboring states (Hollywood Casino Perryville MD, Hollywood Casino Grantville PA) both have "licensed slots" (I have seen Wheel of Fortune slots at both). Charles Town does have a few select licensed machines (the new Playboy machines, Slingo, Atari Pong, Green Stamps), so I'm guessing Charles Town management decided at some point, they were bringing in enough money that they would only buy licensed machines that were cheap (I have to imagine Atari Pong machines are far cheaper than Wheel of Fortune or Lord of the Rings).
Quote: silversonic2006By "popular" I do mean the licensed themes, such as Wheel of Fortune, Sex and the City, etc. I'm sure the licensed machines are "tighter", but someone's clearly playing them....the Wheel of Fortune slots are probably some of the most well-known of all machines, and my wife has to play Sex and the City at off hours to get a seat. What's even more baffling about it is that the Penn National properties in neighboring states (Hollywood Casino Perryville MD, Hollywood Casino Grantville PA) both have "licensed slots" (I have seen Wheel of Fortune slots at both). Charles Town does have a few select licensed machines (the new Playboy machines, Slingo, Atari Pong, Green Stamps), so I'm guessing Charles Town management decided at some point, they were bringing in enough money that they would only buy licensed machines that were cheap (I have to imagine Atari Pong machines are far cheaper than Wheel of Fortune or Lord of the Rings).
That's odd because I could swear I saw Sex and the City at Wheeling Island. Since the casinos are a joint effort with the WV Lottery, I'm a bit surprised. However, if the seats are full, why pay more money that could be a shared agreement? Keep all the money to yourself.
Anyone have a definite answer to this?
Quote: JojoIt appears that no one is sure whether these will be Class III "Vegas acceptable" table games machines, which will give the true frequencies of occurrences - e.g., the dice in the electronic craps game will be programmed to give random results such as a pair of real dice would (1/36 for 1/1 appearing, 1/36 for 6/6 appearing, etc.), or, if these will be Class I games which will be programmed to give occurrences chosen by the manufacturer, like a slot machine.
Anyone have a definite answer to this?
I don't have a definitive answer, but the roulette uses a real pill and wheel, the craps uses three real physical dice inside a locked tumbler, and the baccarat/blackjack (not sure which) uses a super-high-tech machine which deals real cards. So, I'd say they're the same as playing real casino table games in terms of the theoretical randomness. Also, the blackjack is standard Shuffle Master e-tables, which deal from a randomized 6-deck shoe for each player; that is, I believe each player deals from their own virtual shoe, so one player doesn't affect the others.
This is all what I've gathered from the video peek of the casino interior I've seen on the news...I don't know anything truly definitive.
Quote: silversonic2006Also, the blackjack is standard Shuffle Master e-tables, which deal from a randomized 6-deck shoe for each player; that is, I believe each player deals from their own virtual shoe, so one player doesn't affect the others.
I thought "One shoe per player" was exclusive to the PA Casinos when they had the "Others can't affect your play" law, but all other shufflemasters were NOT an individual shoe for each player...
players vs the house? or pl;ayers vs each other and house gets a rake?
Quote: 100xOddshow does the texas holdem work?
players vs the house? or pl;ayers vs each other and house gets a rake?
Not speaking for him, but my guess is it's either Texas Hold Em Bonus or Ultimate Texas Hold Em in an electronic setting. I've not seen THE Bonus on that machine, but it is a Shufflemaster game, so they could make it. I have seen Ultimate on those machines, and I wonder if it's just a hair too complicated for most people to figure it out. I remember playing that at Mirage once, and I had a bunch of people asking me how to play the game.
Quote: vendman1The casino is really shoehorned in the available space (basically the back parking lot of Arundel Mills Mall)
Maryland Live! Casino has more slot machines than the MGM Grand and Bellagio combined and a location adjacent to one of the East Coast's largest shopping malls. And, despite obstacles placed in front of the casino by the state, Cordish Company Chairman David Cordish believes his company's $500 million development will prevail financially.
A 67 percent tax on gaming revenues, the highest in the nation? No problem.
A competing casino roughly 12 miles north, near Baltimore's Inner Harbor? Not a concern.
Maryland Live!, with 4,750 slot machines and electronic table games and five restaurants tucked into a 330,000-square-foot facility, opens Wednesday in the Anne Arundel County town of Hanover, next to the 200-store Arundel Mills retail, dining and entertainment complex. . . .
What angers Cordish, however, is a push by neighboring Prince George's County to have its own casino. The region is expected to provide Maryland Live! with a large number of customers. Potential competition - not anticipated when Maryland Live! was being conceived - is what Cordish had in mind when he told the East Coast Gaming Conference in May that casino proliferation was getting out of hand.
Residents of Prince George's County voted against Maryland's statewide referendum that set the stage for casino expansion. Now, with Maryland Live! opening, county leaders want to be dealt into the game. To Cordish, that's changing the rules in the middle of the action. . . .
Cordish supports the casino in Baltimore, even though it could lure away customers. The property is expected to be awarded to Caesars Entertainment Corp. in partnership with Detroit-based Rock Gaming. . . .
Analysts said gaming in the region, which includes Delaware, West Virginia, Pennsylvania and Atlantic City is getting close to saturation with Maryland now in the mix. Within a 30-mile radius from Anne Arundel, there will almost 14,000 slot machines. A proposed casino in Prince George's County would kick the figure up to almost 19,000 games. . . .
Cordish also wants to build an entertainment complex in downtown Las Vegas that would include a sports arena to house an NBA or NHL franchise.--cc times
As to the saturation of gambling in the Mid-Atlantic region I think we are already there (proposed PG county and Downtown Balt casinos aside). I know AC is way down, as has been discussed on this board repeatedly, and I would imagine having MD open will negatively impact DE, WV and PA. But we will see.
Interesting...while National Harbor is a nice development and I'm sure having a casino there would be successful.(right on the border of DC/MD/VA, with a nice view of the Potomac for those who don't know) Where are all these gambling dollars coming from? I just wonder at some point how much the market can bear. It was only as far back as 2008 when only NJ had "real" casinos in the Mid-Atlantic. Since then Deleware, West VA, Pennsylvania (bigtime), and now MD have added casinos. There is only so much disposible income to go around. All this in a down economy. Frankly that's part of the reason politicians in these states are so eager to expand gambling, to get there greedy fingers on the taxes, when other revenues are declining. But there has to be diminishing returns at some point....doesn't there? I guess the big question is ...are we there yet?
Quote: hook3670Has anybody been to Maryland Live since it opened? What is your opinion?
100xodds had a report for us in this other thread
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/craps/10101-e-craps-at-new-maryland-live-casino/
