Revel AC

I played the 8 deck game and a lot of their tables for all games were $5-$10. I sat down at $10 a hand lost one double down and one split along with my 8 in a row and that was it for me. Talk about a quickie!

Quote: Woldus

Yes, they were right to not allow the hand to be set properly and play it out (which would've resulted in a push, BTW). But look at the negative spin on everyone opinion at the table. How big a deal would it have been for the floor to see the push and just say - "Sir, we allow one warning for a miss-set" or whatever? Now I think if we go play there and my wife forgets how she splits and tries to pick up the low hand I'm wondering if they'll foul the hand, and on and on and on.... Just bad PR is what I'm saying.

Yeah, I actually agree with you on this one. There are players who do mis-set their hands intentionally, hoping the dealer will not catch it. However, MOST players if they mis-set the hand do it by accident. I have to guess this was the situation. If a new player is given a chance to fix it once, so should ALL players, regardless of skill level. You have the potential for a complaint to the NGC if you don't treat all players fairly.

And from a PR standpoint, it's important that ALL players feel welcome in your casino. Unfortunately, Revel doesn't seem to care as much about gamblers as they do the party crowd. That's all well and good... but let's see how this conversation forms this time next year, after a winter of near empty crowds. My guess is some policies and practices become obsolete.

DJ, look forward to your detailed report. In the meantime I was in AC this past weekend, and stopped by the Revel. So here is my review:

The property in general is very large and impressive. The whole place feels large, airy and quite roomy. Easily the grandest in AC (hold your snickers please)...and should rival the Borgata in the battle for the "pretty people". I was there Saturday night and have never seen so many well dressed people in an AC casino...however they seemed to mostly be checking out the new joint, as opposed to gambling. The hotel is billed as a "resort" with a casino...not a casino with some other ammenities(which would describe every other casino in AC). If this strategy is economically viable long term, or not, remains to be seen...i'd say it's 50/50 at best. The Revel does a pretty good job of achieving this goal. The outdoor spaces are really quite large and friendly, and should be spectacular when fully finished. The facility embraces the ocean instead of ignoring it as most other AC properties do. In addition the "fully non-smoking" rules seem strictly enforced and they seem to be using it as a selling point. They are in the progress of a major beach improvement as well. I spoke to several casino personel who gave conflicting timeframes on when that will be finished... but the overall plan looks quite grand.

Now on to the important part..the casino. Two first impressions. One, the carpet in this casino is not of the usual make my eyes water variety(a welcome change), and two, the lack of smoke is noticable immediately. In a further attempt to embrace the ocean views, the casino is 4-5 stories above the boardwalk level. When coming up from the boardwalk via a very long escalator and through a very grand lobby, the casino seems small at first glance. It's not. I would estimate the gaming floor at roughly the size in sq. footage of the Taj Mahal or the Borgata (the two largest in AC I think). But the layout is in a large oval shape with various, nightclubs, lounges etc. in the middle. This makes the casino seem smaller than it actually is, since you can't see the whole gaming floor from any given area. The overall layout flows smoothly, but there is an unusually large amount of open space in some areas(perhaps not all the tables/machines have been installed yet?) I'm a table game player almost exclusively so I didn't pay much attention to slots, but there seemed a wide variety of type and denomination of machine. There were also some video blackjack machines with live dealers(pretty ones) at very low $5 and $10 limits. Didn't check them out closely but they seemed very popular. I didn't see much video poker but may have just missed it.

The table games were the usual mix of carnival games (3-card, 4-card poker, mississippi stud, let it ride, big-6 wheel, etc.) Roulette was all double zero wheels on the main floor, usually with $10 minimums. I heard there was one single-zero wheel in the high limit area, but didn't go back there, as the high limit area seemed to be in the back of a very loud night club ( I suspect that might get modified). The BJ was pretty standard AC rules as well (no single deck or double deck that I saw, all games paid 3 to 2 on BJ). But there were several interesting quirks I did notice. In pits right next to one another, there were the following: one pit had S17, DAS, 6-Deck at only a $10 minimum, while right next to it was another pit with H17, 8 deck, DAS with a $25 min. Both pits were active Sat night and Sunday during the day. Why the pit with better rules was at a lower limit, I couldn't say. But I was lucky enough to take some of their money :). Overall the dealers and management personel were very friendly and helpful. Getting a players card was simple and easy, and took 3 min. Though nothing was said about how to access your account. Also of note, in an effort to give the place an "open" feel there are no ropes or anything blocking people from walking through the center of a pit. As a result, the floor people I saw spent about 25% of their time asking people not to walk through the center of the pit. I'm sure that might be modified as well.

I didn't stay in the hotel so can't comment on the quality of the rooms or service. The bars and restaurants seemed crowded and well recieved, but very few were open yet. The Revel is in a "soft" opening mode, and quite a bit of the eventual retail, bar, and restaurants space is still under construction. The signage also could use improvement as the place is very large and can be confusing. Full opening is scheduled for Memorial Day weekend. Sorry for the long winded post, hope it was helpful.

Quote:

AC could become a big success if they:

1. Built a real airport enabling international flights to land.
.
.
.
5. Keep security on the boardwalk at night.

There is nothing wrong with the airport. Its capable of handling international flights. The problem with air travel to Atlantic City will not be the airport, it will be the fact that airlines don't find it worth their while to fly there. The airport itself has been upgraded with the goal of attracting international flights, they have the service areas required. The problem is there is little demand for inbound international flights direct to AC. All airlines will find it much more economical to fly to Philly instead. Unless the state of NJ or the casinos in AC subsidize the airport to the point where its profitable for major airlines to fly into Atlantic City, they are never going to get major international traffic. That's not the fault of the airport, its the airlines.

As for security on the boardwalk, that is supposed to be part of the new development plan. Better lighting on the Boardwalk, more police on the Boardwalk. So they are supposedly working on that.

Quote: cpm57

There is nothing wrong with the airport. Its capable of handling international flights.

Yes, it can "handle" international flights. It just can't handle a lot of them.

I present the following evidence. Satellite photos of the airports. You'll note more runways, taxiways and terminals at the other airports than at Atlantic City.

These images are all to the same scale.

Newark:
Admin note: removed image www.djteddybear.com/images/ewr.JPG

Philly:
Admin note: removed image www.djteddybear.com/images/phl.JPG

Las Vegas:
Admin note: removed image www.djteddybear.com/images/las.JPG

Atlantic City:
Admin note: removed image www.djteddybear.com/images/acy.JPG

I'm not sure I'm following. There is no inbound international flight market for Atlantic City. The reason for that is not because the airport can't handle all the carriers that want to land international flights in Atlantic City, its because no carriers want to land international flights directly in Atlantic City.

If ACY builds a new 12 ramp terminal and runway dedidicated just to international flights, it would be empty 99.9% of the time. Until there is real demand (spontanious or fabricated by AC, NJ, and the various players) by carriers to land international flights at ACY then ACY's capabilities right now are more than adequate. Why invest in a market that's just not there at the moment?

All those other airports have demand for international flights, thus they built facilities to meet the demand. How many people in London, or Paris, or Shanghai are clamoring for flights directly to Atlantic City? I suspect all of them are more than satisfied to land in Philly or Newark and take a limo/cab/rental car the rest of the way. And I'm sure the airlines are more than satisified with that arrangement too as its more likely their planes are going to be filled with international travelers flying into major metro airports than they would be if the flight ended in Atlantic City.

Not saying I wouldn't love to have ACY expanded (I live 30 minutes away), but I don't see the market unless its artificially created by having carriers subsidized to encourage direct international travel. ACY is lucky Spirit runs flights in and out as much as they do, otherwise there would be no one except for Gold and other minor transportation companies there. Again its not because the airport can't handle more flights, they have plenty of capacity at the moment. They are begging airlines to add ACY to their routes. Its simply because it makes zero economic sense for the airlines to fly into ACY. The market just is not there. Hopefully that changes as the AC revitilization/development plan is implemented over the next several years.

You're comparing apples to oranges. KACY has two runways. The longer runway is 10,000 feet that can handle pretty much anything including a 747. The smaller 6100' runway can handle 737s, 57s, A319s, 320s... etc.

Buffalo also has 2 runways and handled 5.2 million passengers in 2010. ACY with 1.431 million passengers in 2010 (up from 961k in 2006) could easily quadruple its passenger load. The issue with KACY is that it only has 7 gates which only would allow for about 100 or so commercial flights per day. But even 100 commercial flights to day would be a massive improvement over the 14 or so that they get in the summertime. Buffalo has 30 gates.

Runways isn't the issue. ACY has plenty of capacity to triple its traffic.

You missed my point.

It's not just the international capabilities I'm talking about.

I do not believe it has the capabilities to handle any significant amount of traffic, even if it were all domestic.

There simply isn't enough terminal space, runway capacity or taxiways to handle it all.

I didn't miss your point.

Runways aren't the issue. There are plenty of airports that take in 5 million passengers or more, like Buffalo, on 2 runways, taxiways, etc. The issue with ACY is the gates -- there are only 7 of em. But you could put in a good 100 arrivals and departures a day with only 7 gates. With that in mind, you could easily triple the action at ACY without airport expansion.

Actually, the real problem is that PHL is 1 hour away west, while EWR is 90 minutes north. Both service all of the airlines. Any airline will fly to the hub and then run a 50 seater from the hub to ACY. The flight time from both EWR or PHL would be about 40 minutes (take off, airtime, landing) and would be subject to all of the Air Traffic control crap that everything else in the north east would go through... probably not worth it for an airline to fly there. If you're a high enough roller, well, the casino will send you a limo, and if you're not, then you'll rent a car anywhere and save the cost in airfare.

ACY will never receive an international flight.

Quote: boymimbo

IRunways aren't the issue. There are plenty of airports that take in 5 million passengers or more, like Buffalo, on 2 runways, taxiways, etc.

Toluca handled at one time 4+ million passengers per year on one runway.

Quote:

The issue with ACY is the gates -- there are only 7 of em. But you could put in a good 100 arrivals and departures a day with only 7 gates. With that in mind, you could easily triple the action at ACY without airport expansion.

You could also expand the airport on the cheap. Again, consider Toluca. The "gates" were a small counter and a door to the outisde. Once outside you either walked to the plane and climbed up the stairs (advantage, you could load an A-320 through the front and rear doors), or you took a bus to the plane on the tarmac, and then climbed the stairs. Part of why this worked, though, was that only low cost airlines operated in that airport.

BTW Toluca does handle international flights. Not many, but some. Continental has been operating a daily flight to houston for years, and lately Spirit Airlines and Interjet offer flights to and from Florida, Dallas and San Antonio. All you need is a customs and immigration office, after all.

Gates at ACY would only become an issue if the number of flights significantly increased. I agree with boymimbo, the problem is not the runways or gates or facilities at ACY, the problem is that very few airlines have any interest at all at flying into or out of ACY just because there is no market there and its cheaper for them to simply dump you off at Philly or Newark. Expanding the ACY airport wouldn't change that.

If you are a high enough roller, Borgata will send one of their 2 private jets to come get you, fly you into ACY, limo you to and from the Borgata and fly you back home (per an article in the AC Press late last year).

Pre-Harrahs, Caesars used to fly me into ACY from FRG. I stopped taking those charters when one of them slammed into the ground outside of WilkesBarre.

Quote: s2dbaker

Pre-Harrahs, Caesars used to fly me into ACY from FRG. I stopped taking those charters when one of them slammed into the ground outside of WilkesBarre.

1. Good Call! I'd stop too...
2. How did a flight from Long Island to the Jersey shore end up in PA?

DJTeddyBear
I have seen this happen many times and quite often the casino will reset the hand house way and give the player a break ,and a warning. saying something like we will give you a break this time but next time you will lose the hand if you foul it.
Also to some people $100 is small change,to me this is the type of player they should want,instead they probably have lost his business over one hand.

Quote: rdw4potus

1. Good Call! I'd stop too...
2. How did a flight from Long Island to the Jersey shore end up in PA?

The charter company flew people in from a few different routes surrounding ACY.

Quote: vendman1

DJ, look forward to your detailed report. In the meantime I was in AC this past weekend, and stopped by the Revel. So here is my review:

The property in general is very large and impressive. The whole place feels large, airy and quite roomy. Easily the grandest in AC (hold your snickers please)...and should rival the Borgata in the battle for the "pretty people". I was there Saturday night and have never seen so many well dressed people in an AC casino...however they seemed to mostly be checking out the new joint, as opposed to gambling. The hotel is billed as a "resort" with a casino...not a casino with some other ammenities(which would describe every other casino in AC). If this strategy is economically viable long term, or not, remains to be seen...i'd say it's 50/50 at best. The Revel does a pretty good job of achieving this goal. The outdoor spaces are really quite large and friendly, and should be spectacular when fully finished. The facility embraces the ocean instead of ignoring it as most other AC properties do. In addition the "fully non-smoking" rules seem strictly enforced and they seem to be using it as a selling point. They are in the progress of a major beach improvement as well. I spoke to several casino personel who gave conflicting timeframes on when that will be finished... but the overall plan looks quite grand.

Now on to the important part..the casino. Two first impressions. One, the carpet in this casino is not of the usual make my eyes water variety(a welcome change), and two, the lack of smoke is noticable immediately. In a further attempt to embrace the ocean views, the casino is 4-5 stories above the boardwalk level. When coming up from the boardwalk via a very long escalator and through a very grand lobby, the casino seems small at first glance. It's not. I would estimate the gaming floor at roughly the size in sq. footage of the Taj Mahal or the Borgata (the two largest in AC I think). But the layout is in a large oval shape with various, nightclubs, lounges etc. in the middle. This makes the casino seem smaller than it actually is, since you can't see the whole gaming floor from any given area. The overall layout flows smoothly, but there is an unusually large amount of open space in some areas(perhaps not all the tables/machines have been installed yet?) I'm a table game player almost exclusively so I didn't pay much attention to slots, but there seemed a wide variety of type and denomination of machine. There were also some video blackjack machines with live dealers(pretty ones) at very low $5 and $10 limits. Didn't check them out closely but they seemed very popular. I didn't see much video poker but may have just missed it.

The table games were the usual mix of carnival games (3-card, 4-card poker, mississippi stud, let it ride, big-6 wheel, etc.) Roulette was all double zero wheels on the main floor, usually with $10 minimums. I heard there was one single-zero wheel in the high limit area, but didn't go back there, as the high limit area seemed to be in the back of a very loud night club ( I suspect that might get modified). The BJ was pretty standard AC rules as well (no single deck or double deck that I saw, all games paid 3 to 2 on BJ). But there were several interesting quirks I did notice. In pits right next to one another, there were the following: one pit had S17, DAS, 6-Deck at only a $10 minimum, while right next to it was another pit with H17, 8 deck, DAS with a $25 min. Both pits were active Sat night and Sunday during the day. Why the pit with better rules was at a lower limit, I couldn't say. But I was lucky enough to take some of their money :). Overall the dealers and management personel were very friendly and helpful. Getting a players card was simple and easy, and took 3 min. Though nothing was said about how to access your account. Also of note, in an effort to give the place an "open" feel there are no ropes or anything blocking people from walking through the center of a pit. As a result, the floor people I saw spent about 25% of their time asking people not to walk through the center of the pit. I'm sure that might be modified as well.

I didn't stay in the hotel so can't comment on the quality of the rooms or service. The bars and restaurants seemed crowded and well recieved, but very few were open yet. The Revel is in a "soft" opening mode, and quite a bit of the eventual retail, bar, and restaurants space is still under construction. The signage also could use improvement as the place is very large and can be confusing. Full opening is scheduled for Memorial Day weekend. Sorry for the long winded post, hope it was helpful.

Pretty good review... Thanks for the input

Ok, we finally pried ourselves away from Borgata to spend 4 hours over at Revel for a first look and some gambling. I think some of the prior posts have covered most everything, but here were a few of my first impressions:

THE GOOD:

* It was easy to get from Borgata to Revel, they did a great job with signage.

* The parking garage is huge and well lit. The multiple options for paying (pre pay at a machine going out the door or pay with cash/transfer the regular way) is a nice touch (you can charge your parking at the prepay machine if you blew all your cash LOL!!!)

* The gaming floor itself is substantial..roomy, TONS of slots from the major manufactures and even some from AC Slot. We didn't spend time at tables, but there was almost no one there at 8:30 on Wednesday night, we could have had our run at any table game for $5 minimums. Seemed like there were ample tables. Obviously everything is new and clean for now....

* Everyone was very friendly, the cocktail waitresses especially, but then again, they only had my wife and I to take care of most of the night.

* Certainly the place looks amazing. They spared no expense, its not possible to do it justice in a post. If you are going to AC you need to make a point to go just to see the place at a minimum. I think it would be a great resort to stay at if you have the cash and are going to take the time to enjoy the place. Ample place to gamble, just hang out and relax, walk around, swim, etc.

* If you enjoy bars, this is your place, they have bars EVERYWHERE on the casino level. And I mean EVERYWHERE. I don't drink myself, so that wasn't a plus for me, but if you like to hang out and mingle with a drink in your hand, they have every type of place you could want. And those are all open of course....

Ok, now THE BAD...with the understanding that some of this is likely because they are still in the soft opening period:

* If you are going there in the near future and are thinking you are going to be able to grab some quick service snack that is not Mexican, forget it. It was 8:30PM and all I wanted was some comfort food...burger, fries, pizza, something American maybe? No where to be found. I suspect that will get better once they are fully opened, but be forwarned if you are going there now, hungry, later at night and don't want to sit down at a formal restaurant and don't want real Mexican food.

* 8-5 JoB quarters. If this is an important comparable for you (and it is for me), that's better than some AC casinos, but Borgata has plenty of 9-6. The rest of the video poker is as usual for AC, although if you like niche games like Video Let it Ride or Pick 'em Poker I didn't see those anywhere. If you like the typical GameKing or IGT multihand games and things such as Ultimate X or Spin poker there was plenty of that around.

* I found one of those 1 urinal 1 stall bathrooms. When the place gets packed in the summer, even if they have plenty of other bathrooms that is going to raise some eyebrows.

And THE UGLY:

* While playing video poker, a bunch of younger girls walking through our section started fighting. And I mean seriously going at it, fists flying, down on the ground wresting, kicking, screaming, scratching, etc.... It probably went on for a good minute or 2. So I'm sitting there with my wife trying to figure out what our best move would be, run and get out of there before someone pulls a knife or just stay seated and alert. While all of this is unfolding, I'm waiting to see security sweep in and get a handle on this. Well, security was no where to be found. By the time a single security guy came over there was just a couple of the girls from that group sitting down at empty machines. I have no idea where the rest scattered to.

Now, I know Revel is still just getting opened and probably doesn't have full staff yet. And it was 11PM on a Wednesday night and it was a pretty sparse crowd. But the fact that something like this could take place on the casino floor for 2 minutes without a whole lot of security being alerted shook me and my wife quite a bit. I've seen a few minor incidents at Borgata over the years, and it took no more than 20 seconds for a whole lot of security to show up to there. The one thing I expect when I'm on a casino floor is to feel secure. I can't say I felt secure AT ALL at Revel. Even before that incident occurred, it struck me how sparse their casino staff was. There are sections of the gaming floor where you feel isolated. Once that happened and security wasn't there to break it up, I spent the rest of my gaming time watching every single person around me with suspicion. I generally only smoke when I'm gambling, and it was after this incident that I was cursing out the completely smoke free gaming floor, I sure could have used a smoke at that point.

* Another concern is the fact that this is yet another Boardwalk casino, easily within walking distance of any AC rifraff you might expect to see (and I saw quite a few). Again, this is actually where Borgata has it over on Revel and where I feel much safer at Borgata than Revel. Boardwalk and ocean is a selling point for Revel the resort, Boardwalk and last casino on the Boardwalk in that direction is not a selling point for the casino gaming. In just 4 hours I was reminded why I like not gambling at an AC Boardwalk casino. That's probably a residual of the above situation, but unfortunately for Revel my first impression of safety has been made, whether or not that is their fault or the fault of the idiots who where there when I was.

In the end we had a good time, and I hope the place does fantastic. But as a local to AC who is mostly going to AC to gamble/eat, there was nothing specific there that would draw me away from my regular stomping grounds at Borgata. Revel will be able to draw me to shows for sure, and if I'm there for a show, I'm sure I'll gamble there. I'm going to the Maroon 5 show for example in May. But there was nothing that would specifically make me go there if I'm heading up to AC for a gambling trip. I understand that the casino is 'not the focal point' for Revel and they are selling the resort, beach, experience. That's great, I hope that works for them. For a local looking to play at a casino, Revel would be just another gaming floor with not enough of a selling point to draw me away from my regular place. If they float me a free room I might be enticed to stay for an evening just to have a chance to enjoy the full resort experience. My understanding is getting comp rooms is not going to be easy...we will see how they feel when its October and the summer season is over.

As for how we did, both the wife and I took home money from Revel thanks to some pretty darn good luck playing DDB quarters (4ofK gods were smiling on us last night big time for a 30 minute stretch). We did play some regular slots too. Nothing to write home about, but that is where Revel is going to make their money on the gaming floor. They have a boatload of slots...you jam that place up with a full house on a Saturday in the summer and they are going to be raking in money from the slots.

Quote: boymimbo

Actually, the real problem is that PHL is 1 hour away west, while EWR is 90 minutes north. Both service all of the airlines. Any airline will fly to the hub and then run a 50 seater from the hub to ACY. The flight time from both EWR or PHL would be about 40 minutes (take off, airtime, landing) and would be subject to all of the Air Traffic control crap that everything else in the north east would go through... probably not worth it for an airline to fly there. If you're a high enough roller, well, the casino will send you a limo, and if you're not, then you'll rent a car anywhere and save the cost in airfare.

ACY will never receive an international flight.

The problem is that ACY is very accessible to millions of people, but they are going to spend billions of dollars to upgrade PHL and EWR. It is a shame that the airline industry is so concentrated on hubs, that some flights can't go to small airports like ACY.

International flights need a huge support system to feed them. They would never go to a little airport like ACY. The only possible exception is a small feeder to Toronto. But that would be less concerned with bringing people to Atlantic City, as they would think of Atlantic City as a feeder to them for international flights out of Toronto.

>Built a real airport enabling international flights to land.
I can't see AC as a destination for anyone "international".
>Fire everyone from AC that works there and rehire people people who understand customer service and enjoy working.
You mean create more unemployment locally and expect to do well?
>Keep the place open all night, including restaurants. It's hard to find a place to eat after 10pm.
Its hard to find a sober, well-behaved non-threatening customer after 10pm.
>Ban all forms of hip hop and rap music to keep the ghetto out of the hotels, casinos, and off of the boardwalk
Okay, you go up to some young punk and tell him No Ghetto Allowed. Or post such a sign and see if it stays there..

Quote: FleaStiff

Okay, you go up to some young punk and tell him No Ghetto Allowed. Or post such a sign and see if it stays there..

I can't imagine a girl gang fight like the one described
earlier in the Revel, happening in a midwest casino.
I mean its inconceivable, even in Detroit. But AC is
such a hole, in such a garbage area, I'm surprised it
doesn't happen every day.

deleted

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I do not believe it has the capabilities to handle any significant amount of traffic, even if it were all domestic. There simply isn't enough terminal space, runway capacity or taxiways to handle it all.

ACY is a whole lot more than a couple of runways and gates. It has the facilities and the space to expand if the market ever grows, and it is a significant factor in several government activities:

"What We Do
The FAA William J. Hughes Technical Center (Technical Center) is one of the nation's premier aviation research, development, test and evaluation facilities. Its world-class laboratories and top-notch engineering place the Technical Center at the forefront of the FAA's challenge to modernize the U.S. air transportation system. The Technical Center serves as the FAA national scientific test base for research and development, test and evaluation, and verification and validation in air traffic control, communications, navigation, airports, aircraft safety, and security. The Technical Center is the primary facility supporting the nation's Next Generation Air Transportation System, called NextGen.--http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ato/tc/"

"Transportation Security Laboratory
The Transportation Security Laboratory (TSL) is a Department of Homeland Security Federal Laboratory located at the William J. Hughes Technical Center, Atlantic City International Airport, New Jersey, and is a part of the Science and Technology Directorate of the Department. The core mission is to enhance homeland security by performing research, development and validation of solutions to detect and mitigate the threat of improvised explosive devices.
The TSL also does certification testing for Explosive Detection Systems. TSL has a rich history of successful product development and technology life cycle management. This consists of growing technology from conception to deployment, including applied research, development, prototyping, test and evaluation, certification, systems qualification, and laboratory assessment testing. The TSL is internationally recognized for its role in the development of standards, protocols and test articles necessary for detection technology assessments.
The specially designed facilities at TSL are used to perform research on explosives characteristics and chemistry, suicide detection imaging technology, communications, and human factors performance evaluations. The six specialized lab cells (four blast resistant) are used to evaluate explosives detection equipment, weapons imaging systems, and trace equipment against an extensive library of domestic, foreign, and home made explosive compounds."--http://www.dhs.gov/files/labs/editorial_0903.shtm
Other components include a significant TSA training center and the 177th Fighter Wing, which provides air security for the New York metropolitan region.

And your point? Why should we care about the Transportation Sercurity Laboratory? Why did you cut and paste the above info?

The facts remain. AC needs to fly people in from around the world, but they can't because the airport is outdated and irrelevant.

Quote: cpm57

And THE UGLY:

* While playing video poker, a bunch of younger girls walking through our section started fighting. And I mean seriously going at it, fists flying, down on the ground wresting, kicking, screaming, scratching, etc.... It probably went on for a good minute or 2.

Before it was just a want but now I need to see this place! This sounds like an awesome place! Like O'Shea's but without all the pretentiousness.

Quote: Keyser

Why did you cut and paste the above info? The facts remain. AC needs to fly people in from around the world, but they can't because the airport is outdated and irrelevant.

If you think that a principal center for some of the most advanced technical and security projects in the nation is "outdated" and "irrelevant," you are certainly entitled to that opinion, but don't expect too many others to agree with it.

Not outdated but certainly irrelevant.

How does any of that get people to fly to AC?

Quote: DJTeddyBear

How does any of that get people to fly to AC?

Start with two easy points. What are supposed to be the most modern up-to-date aeronautics and avionics are already in place and, thanks to Washington, will most likely be kept up to speed. PHL and EWR suffer badly by comparison, as they do in the trump card--the worst congestion on earth.

Quote: FleaStiff

I can't see AC as a destination for anyone "international".

Atlantic city International airport is a "User-fee" airport. It does not meet the Customs and Border Protection standards for a port of entry, but international flights are allowed to land if they re-imburse the cost of the landing (often $100 to $300 per landing).

Out of the "small hub" airports in the Eastern Region, eight out of ten have "international" in their name. In order of size they are:

Norfolk International
Richmond International
Greater Rochester International
Albany International
Syracuse Hancock International
Westchester County
Long Island MacArthur
Atlantic City International
Harrisburg International
Newport News/Williamsburg International
Lehigh Valley International

Quote: Keyser

The facts remain. AC needs to fly people in from around the world, but they can't because the airport is outdated and irrelevant.

You seem under some kind of illusion that international passenger flights are easy to get. Even airports with modern facilities are often unable to get an international service. Las Vegas has 6.3% of its passengers International.

A small East coast airport is very lucky if they can get a turboprop to Toronto. If ACY spent $10 million upgrading its facilities, are you under the impression someone will fly there from Europe?

The airport is 57 miles driving (46 miles flying) from Philadelphia International. US Airways has flights to:

Amsterdam,
Aruba,
Barbados,
Bermuda,
Brussels,
Cancún,
Dublin,
Frankfurt,
London-Heathrow,
Madrid,
Manchester (UK),
Montego Bay,
Munich,
Nassau,
Paris-Charles de Gaulle,
Punta Cana,
Rome-Fiumicino,
St. Lucia,
St. Maarten,
St. Thomas,
Santo Domingo-Las Américas,
Tel Aviv-Ben Gurion,
Zürich

Seasonal:
Athens,
Barcelona,
Freeport (Saturday service),
Glasgow-International,
Grand Cayman,
Lisbon,
Providenciales,
San José (Costa Rica),
Venice-Marco Polo

Quote: pacomartin

Las Vegas has 6.3% of its passengers International.

How is that measured? If I fly from NRT to LAX to LAS, am I in the 6.3%? While I don't think that ACY will see an increase in international flights, it does seem like there's a distinction to be made here. LAX, SFO, and PHX all are hubs that are in-path with international flights heading to LAS. The same thing doesn't happen with ACY, where AC itself is the only thing between the airport and the Atlantic.

That said, isn't ACY pretty clearly a dying airport? They're down to one airline, aren't they? And, while dirt cheap, Spirit isn't exactly convenient for most folks.

a conversation about Atlantic City's airport capacity and what it can and can't do is about thirty five years too late, I'm afraid.
the fact of the matter is, AC is going downhill and it isn't likely to come back up.
they had thirty years of monopoly on east coast casino gambling and they did not do anything to capitalize on it and protect the investment.
now NJ has just gone from the number two state in casino revenue to the number three
and i predict this year or next you will see at least one or two casinos sold or closed.

International flights won't come to AC because there's no one to fill them. Most people who fly to the state will fly to a hub city, then on to a destination. LAS gets service mainly from Canada (Air Canada, WestJet, Sunwing), the UK (Virgin Atlantic, British Airways), Mexico (Volaris, Aeromexico), the Phillipines, and Korea. It is not a major hub except for Southwest. Perhaps if Southwest had some international alliances you might see partners flying in there.

With PHL, JFK, LGA, and EWR close by, you've got major hubs for all of the US airlines. They don't send regular service down to AC first off because it's extremely close to all of these centers (<100 miles) and isn't economical to fly anything that short.

And there isn't enough demand to fly from another hub into AC (Chicago, Dulles, Charlotte, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Detroit, Boston) as people who want to gamble would rather fly direct from anywhere in the USA on Southwest to VEGAS rather than connect through a hub to get to AC.

Quote: rdw4potus

How is that measured? If I fly from NRT to LAX to LAS, am I in the 6.3%? While I don't think that ACY will see an increase in international flights, it does seem like there's a distinction to be made here. LAX, SFO, and PHX all are hubs that are in-path with international flights heading to LAS. The same thing doesn't happen with ACY, where AC itself is the only thing between the airport and the Atlantic.

That said, isn't ACY pretty clearly a dying airport? They're down to one airline, aren't they? And, while dirt cheap, Spirit isn't exactly convenient for most folks.

If you fly from NRT to LAX to LAS, you are not in the 6.3%.

ACY has unstable patronage, but that is typical of small hubs. They actually went up by 27.5% from 2009 to 2010.

Quote:

That said, isn't ACY pretty clearly a dying airport? They're down to one airline, aren't they? And, while dirt cheap, Spirit isn't exactly convenient for most folks.

Actually over the past few years ACY has broken their passenger numbers year after year. Last year was yet another record for the airport.

Spirit certainly doesn't make life easy, but with Air Tran bolting (I'm sure Southwest has very little desire to reconsider that decision), they are the last 'major' airline standing. Gold transportation which is a local Jersey company flies jets from AC to other small airports such as Letrobe. Surprising (to me anyway) the couple of times I've been waiting for an outbound flight and have seen people waiting for these Gold planes, they seem pretty crowded.

Spirit is what it is. I pretty much never pay for the fares using accumulated miles to fly. Fortunately for me ACY is 30 minutes away and with miles easily piled up using their credit card, Spirit can get me and my family of 4 to places like Orlando for $260 for all 4 of us round trip including bags. That doesn't help AC of course, but it sure makes my life easier. I do my part as a local to support AC. Having Spirit as the only option into ACY certainly isn't a plus for anyone, but frankly no other airline has any interest. Not because of a lack of effort by the folks running ACY (Air Tran was given substantial incentives to come into the AC market, and they bolted as soon as those subsidies ended). ACY has begged other airlines to add ACY to their routes over the years, but there is no money for those airlines to make flying half full planes to ACY when they can land full planes into Philly.

Quote: boymimbo

International flights won't come to AC because there's no one to fill them.

Exactly.

Vegas is sort fo a sepcial case. For one thing it's not really close to any major cities. For another, it was the lone palce for gambling for many decades. Obviously a big market grew there and, despite the recession, is still going strong.

Consider the airport at Toluca (it's a good example). It still ahs one runway only, and though it got a larger terminal, it diid booming business for a year or two with rudimentary facilities. Why? Because when Interjet and Volaris debuted, they offered killer deals. For some destinations, it was cheaper to fly than to take the bus (that's done with now, but not when the low costs started). It has something to do with the developmetn of the Santa Fe neighborhood in Mexico City, which sits on the highway to Toluca, but that's a secondary consideration.

In any case, the airport there languished for decades, used only for private planes and some courier companies.

So there's the solution: have a very low cost airline set up on AC.

Quote:

Perhaps if Southwest had some international alliances you might see partners flying in there.

For the record, Volaris has an alliance with Southwest. But try to get either of them to schedule a flight with the other! I'm trying to find a reasonable fare for a coworker to Dallas, and Volaris/Southwest have been no help at all.

In any case, Volaris does fly to Vegas, from Mexico City and Guadalajara. They took those routes from Mexicana.

Gallery of Photos from Revel

Quote: cpm57

Spirit certainly doesn't make life easy, but with Air Tran bolting (I'm sure Southwest has very little desire to reconsider that decision), they are the last 'major' airline standing.

Air Tran left Harrisburg, and Lehigh Valley as well. These are the six small hub airports in the Eastern Region, and their flight distance to the nearest major airport. They all boarded less than a million people in CY 2010.

Nationwide the economics of small airports seem to be on the wane. In many ways it is a shame, since communities are spending billions of dollars to upgrade the larger hubs, while there is a lot of unused capacity within an hours drive. In most cases there is a significant population of at least a million people who could drive to the small hub just as easily as the large one.


Miles- Major-Small hub airport
22 LGA Westchester County
37 JFK Long Island MacArthur
46 PHL Atlantic City International
83 PHL Harrisburg International
23 ORF Newport News/Williamsburg International
55 PHL Lehigh Valley International

I have been at the Revel this past week.

I have to say, the restroom situation really is a complete joke. On the main floor, just next to where the exotic dancer and craps pit are located, there is a restroom. It has only ONE urinal in it, and one standard toilet. There is another bathroom, back near the escalators at the end of a very long corridor, with a whopping four toilets. On Sat. night, the situation was so bad inside the restroom next to the craps pit, that several people were crammed into the restroom waiting to use the ONE urinal. One old guy was crying out for someone to please let him go next because he was about to piss his pants. I left to go find the one back buy the escalators, but guess what, another long line. Even on Monday afternoon, there were five guys in the one bathroom, and the bathroom attendant (I'm not joking, he's almost always in there, despite the fact there there's just the one urinal and one toilet) waiting in the bathroom to use the toilet. Why do they have just one bathroom centrally located in the busiest part of the entire casino?

The Revel planned for wild parties with loads of drinking, but evidently they forgot about the fact that all of these beer drinkers will need a place to unload the beer.
The Revel is definitely not some place where you want to go and party, unless you have a very big bladder.

-Keyser

Bathrooms are extremely expensive to build. All the fixtures and plumbing
and permits and expensive experts to install it all. Looks like they were
cutting costs..

The Revel is all about excess. The building and gaming floor is huge. I dont' think they were trying to cut costs. I just think that they had a 12 year old design the floor plan. It's completely absurd. The casino reminds me of the Aria/ City Center, minus the bathrooms.

No modern architect would make such an absurd mistake. The
grocery store I go to has two big men's bathrooms. And its a
grocery store. Any designer knows a business that serves tons
of drinks needs tons of urinals and toilets. It was a cost cutting
measure, nobody in the design business would be that stupid.

It's just further evidence that the Revel expects people to visit other areas of the resort, and consider the casino just an afterthought - both for the designer and visitor.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Yeah, the party pit features DigiDeal BlackJack.

Did you happen to notice if there were any side bets on the game?

Quote: MathExtremist

Did you happen to notice if there were any side bets on the game?

I'm fairly certain there was, but don't remember the name.

I was more shocked that, in a party pit, with dealers that could very easily justify higher limits because of the, ahem, 'view', the minimum was only $5 - and nobody was playing. Of course this was mid-afternoon, but it was also opening day!

Quote: MathExtremist

Did you happen to notice if there were any side bets on the game?

I asked the pit boss and he told me the side bets were High Tie Blackjack and Upcard Luck 21. I've never heard of either and he didn't have any further information. I only remember them because the boss repeated them several times while I took notes with my Resorts pad and pen.

There were no players and only one dealer in the party pit at that time and it was a he not a she.

Quote: Keyser

The Revel planned for wild parties with loads of drinking, but evidently they forgot about the fact that all of these beer drinkers will need a place to unload the beer.
The Revel is definitely not some place where you want to go and party, unless you have a very big bladder.

Dude, you've got the ocean right at your fingertips... what more could you want? The expectation is that all the "Revelers" will express their freedom in the big blue!

And sand is probably a better substitute for toilet paper than many casino TPs...

Quote: Tiltpoul

And sand is probably a better substitute for toilet paper than many casino TPs...

I don't know about that. Foxwoods has excellent TP. For some reason that's the number one thing I remember about the place...

Quote: MathExtremist

Did you happen to notice if there were any side bets on the game?

I played about 20 hands of Revel's digital blackjack and didn't see any side bets.

The digital blackjack is H17, has virtual cards and virtual chips, and recommends how to play each hand. Upon leaving the table I got a ticket that looked the same as a slot machine or video poker ticket. And I believe the dealer had to put her dollar tip into her purse, which she had lifted onto the table after I had gotten up.

Quote: cpm57

Actually over the past few years ACY has broken their passenger numbers year after year. Last year was yet another record for the airport.

Here is the understated entry for Philadelphia on Travel & Leisure's list of 10 worst airports:
No. 3 Philadelphia (PHL)
Philadelphia’s airport is singled out for a lousy design and lack of cleanliness (20th), surly staff (20th), and long check-in and security lines (20th). The only thing worse is waiting for your bags, ranked 21st in efficiency (make that inefficiency). That its location came in at 13th is not much consolation.

and here is the description of delightful EWR:

No. 5 Newark (EWR)
Ah, Newark. It leads the other two New York–area airports, but that’s not saying much. While readers ranked it 11th for location and convenience, its other scores—16th for staff communication and a string of 18th places for design, cleanliness, baggage handling, and miserable check-in and security lines—are near the bottom of the barrel.--Travel& Leisure

What is truly remarkable is the neither listing even mentions the No. 1 bugaboo--delays.

Here is the last pre-Revel report from NJ Division of Gaming Enforcement:
March 2012 Slot machine win fell 2.7 percent, to $191.1 million, while table game win decreased by 10.6 percent, to $75.2 million.
It should be noted that Revel’s results include the limited-hour invitation only test days during March.

Pa Table Game Revenue went to $61.86 million, the first time for PA to crack $60 million. Slot revenue went to $233 million. The Pennsylvania numbers were slightly boosted by new Valley Forge casino (less than $1 million for both). PA Sands casino beat PARX on table games by 10%.

We just got back from a couple days in AC. IMO Revel is stunning. We didn't bother to look at anything but the casino, and it didn't seem like an afterthought at all to us. It is huge, and clean (it's new, after all), and THERE IS NO SMOKE. Say what you will the place was packed and no one was complaining.

Regarding parking: we used valet, so we didn't have to walk around anything. Thanks for the tip.

Bathrooms: again, thanks for the tip. I made note of the large bathrooms to the left of the escalators, and didn't bother looking for any others.

We'd go there again, without question.