is it possible to rig the shuffling machines in blackjack?
'strictly not allowed, not even the bosses'. Never heard of such a thing. I'm used to seeing the cards spread for everyone's inspection when a table opens. If anyone else from an insider perspective could shed some light on practices even vaguely similar to that described above, I would love to hear about it. Thx.Quote: Rel8te<snip>
With that being said, I used to work as a dealer for an Indian casino where when we opened and closed the table, the QUANTITY of the cards was checked, but not the actual cards. Could the casino get away with swapping an ace for a five? Probably, yes, because we were strictly not allowed (including the pit boss and floor supervisors) to check the cards themselves to determine if the deck was composed fairly.
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Quote: TwoFeathersATL'strictly not allowed, not even the bosses'. Never heard of such a thing. I'm used to seeing the cards spread for everyone's inspection when a table opens. If anyone else from an insider perspective could shed some light on practices even vaguely similar to that described above, I would love to hear about it. Thx.
I've been doing this for over a decade and never seen what Rel8te is talking about. I cannot imagine any legitimate/regulated casino would refuse to allow a Pit Boss to verify game integrity in any jurisdiction.
He did say "An Indian casino", which in some eyes automatically falls into a grey undefined area. But still?Quote: KingoftheEyeI've been doing this for over a decade and never seen what Rel8te is talking about. I cannot imagine any legitimate/regulated casino would refuse to allow a Pit Boss to verify game integrity in any jurisdiction.
Is that why I lost all that money ;-?
And yes it is strictly against their protocols to open a table and to spread the cards face-up. I had people explaining to me how this is very sketchy and I've heard stories where even high-rollers who asked to verify the legitimacy of the game were refused to see the cards in their entirety face-up.
Quote: Rel8teYes, it is an Indian casino regulated by... guess who? Themselves.
And yes it is strictly against their protocols to open a table and to spread the cards face-up. I had people explaining to me how this is very sketchy and I've heard stories where even high-rollers who asked to verify the legitimacy of the game were refused to see the cards in their entirety face-up.
Can't imagine putting serious cash on a table like that.
Is there a reason not to mention the name of the casino?Quote: Rel8teYes, it is an Indian casino regulated by... guess who? Themselves.
And yes it is strictly against their protocols to open a table and to spread the cards face-up. I had people explaining to me how this is very sketchy and I've heard stories where even high-rollers who asked to verify the legitimacy of the game were refused to see the cards in their entirety face-up.
Quote: AxelWolfIs there a reason not to mention the name of the casino?
Confidentiality agreement with the casino.
Quote: Rel8teConfidentiality agreement with the casino.
are you serious?
if what you said is real, then you have a moral obligation to let other people know what this place is. If they are not loyal to their customer, why should you be loyal to them?
I'm Skeptical anyways it was obvious we wouldn't get a name.Quote: andysifare you serious?
if what you said is real, then you have a moral obligation to let other people know what this place is. If they are not loyal to their customer, why should you be loyal to them?
Patent US6299167 Playing card shuffling machine Google Patents
"Another problem area suffered by both manual and automated shuffling techniques is associated with having concentrated sequences of cards. These concentrations or “slugs” most often occur with respect to cards having a value of 10, such as in playing blackjack. A skilled card counting gambler can take advantage of such card slugs to turn the odds against the casino and in favor of the card counter. Such slugs also indicate the failure of prior art shufflers to in fact effectively rearrange the order of cards in a deck or decks being shuffled. Thus there remains a strong need for improved shuffling machines which can effectively reorder a deck or series of decks."
The upshot of this is that it is now possible to "arrange" a shoe of cards in non-random order. My guess is that the shoe is arranged in an order that reduces variability.
If this is true, you should see very few winning runs by players and many bust hands of 12 - 16.
Cutting doesn't make any difference because cutting doesn't change the card sequence in any significant way. Number of players doesn't matter either.
It seems to me that this year there has been much less variability in blackjack and (in my case; an unusual number of losing sessions)
Full reference: Search Google patents US6299167
Patent US6299167 Playing card shuffling machine Google Patents
"Another problem area suffered by both manual and automated shuffling techniques is associated with having concentrated sequences of cards. These concentrations or “slugs” most often occur with respect to cards having a value of 10, such as in playing blackjack. A skilled card counting gambler can take advantage of such card slugs to turn the odds against the casino and in favor of the card counter. Such slugs also indicate the failure of prior art shufflers to in fact effectively rearrange the order of cards in a deck or decks being shuffled. Thus there remains a strong need for improved shuffling machines which can effectively reorder a deck or series of decks."
The upshot of this is that it is now possible to "arrange" a shoe of cards in non-random order. My guess is that the shoe is arranged in an order that reduces variability.
If this is true, you should see very few winning runs by players and many bust hands of 12 - 16.
Cutting doesn't make any difference because cutting doesn't change the card sequence in any significant way. Number of players doesn't matter either.
It seems to me that this year there has been much less variability in blackjack and (in my case; an unusual number of losing sessions)
Full reference: Search Google patents US6299167
Quote: Diogenes"Another problem area suffered by both manual and automated shuffling techniques is associated with having concentrated sequences of cards. These concentrations or “slugs” most often occur with respect to cards having a value of 10, such as in playing blackjack. A skilled card counting gambler can take advantage of such card slugs to turn the odds against the casino and in favor of the card counter. Such slugs also indicate the failure of prior art shufflers to in fact effectively rearrange the order of cards in a deck or decks being shuffled. Thus there remains a strong need for improved shuffling machines which can effectively reorder a deck or series of decks."
The upshot of this is that it is now possible to "arrange" a shoe of cards in non-random order. My guess is that the shoe is arranged in an order that reduces variability.
I think you're misreading the spec. Due to the way blackjack is dealt and played, a randomly shuffled deck tends to be picked up and discarded in a manner that leads to slugs of high value cards rather than an equal distribution. The problem they're identifying is that the poor shuffling machines in the prior art don't fix that, and the patent is directed toward a device that does. Here's claim 1:
That claim, and other sections of the specification, specifically talk about ejecting a card "to provide a randomly distributed array of shuffled cards." That's the reason this type of device is called a random-ejection shuffler. Here's Fig 5 from the patent -- reference numerals 102 are the ejectors that push cards from the unshuffled deck (on the right) onto the shuffled pile (on the left).Quote: Claim 1, US 6,299,1671. A method for automating shuffling of playing cards, comprising the steps of:
a) forming an unshuffled stack of playing cards which are to be shuffled, said playing cards being in stacked array formation with contact between adjacent cards of the unshuffled array;
b) holding the unshuffled stack in an unshuffled stack holder on a floor having a fixed height; and
d) using an ejector mounted on an ejector carriage which is movable relative to a frame to eject at least one playing card at an incremental position of the unshuffled stack directly to a shuffled card receiver to provide a randomly distributed array of shuffled cards.
By the way, where's step c in claim 1?
Quote: DiogenesRecently (this year) results have caused me to rethink my "Casinos can't be cheating." attitude and I invite readers of this thread to consider the following:
Patent US6299167 Playing card shuffling machine Google Patents
"Another problem area suffered by both manual and automated shuffling techniques is associated with having concentrated sequences of cards. These concentrations or “slugs” most often occur with respect to cards having a value of 10, such as in playing blackjack. A skilled card counting gambler can take advantage of such card slugs to turn the odds against the casino and in favor of the card counter. Such slugs also indicate the failure of prior art shufflers to in fact effectively rearrange the order of cards in a deck or decks being shuffled. Thus there remains a strong need for improved shuffling machines which can effectively reorder a deck or series of decks."
The upshot of this is that it is now possible to "arrange" a shoe of cards in non-random order. My guess is that the shoe is arranged in an order that reduces variability.
If this is true, you should see very few winning runs by players and many bust hands of 12 - 16.
Cutting doesn't make any difference because cutting doesn't change the card sequence in any significant way. Number of players doesn't matter either.
It seems to me that this year there has been much less variability in blackjack and (in my case; an unusual number of losing sessions)
Full reference: Search Google patents US6299167
Perhaps one can invent a machine or process to arrange the cards to eliminate cluster ONLY in the 10 valued cards, but such card distribution would no longer considered truly random, and the integrity of such process would then be questioned.
Cluster of cards exist, whether the shuffling process is manual or automated. Cluster is part of the random nature in shuffling and is unavoidable. The probability of having set of four-10 cards (10,J,K,Q) cluster together is the same of the probability having any given set four non-10 cards cluster together.
That's true, assuming a fair shuffle, but that's not the issue. The issue is that after a shoe of blackjack is played, the discards in the discard rack are not equally distributed due to the way players hit and stand and due to the way the dealer picks up the cards to discard them. In other words, the probability of having a set of four-10 cards is not the same as having any given set of four non-10 cards in the discard rack, even if it was true for the freshly-shuffled shoe. That's what the patented shuffler is trying to fix.Quote: 777Cluster of cards exist, whether the shuffling process is manual or automated. Cluster is part of the random nature in shuffling and is unavoidable. The probability of having set of four-10 cards (10,J,K,Q) cluster together is the same of the probability having any given set four non-10 cards cluster together.
Quote: MathExtremistThat's true, assuming a fair shuffle, but that's not the issue. The issue is that after a shoe of blackjack is played, the discards in the discard rack are not equally distributed due to the way players hit and stand and due to the way the dealer picks up the cards to discard them. In other words, the probability of having a set of four-10 cards is not the same as having any given set of four non-10 cards in the discard rack, even if it was true for the freshly-shuffled shoe. That's what the patented shuffler is trying to fix.
The players and the houses can get unlucky/unlucky or live & die due the random occurrence in clustering of cards.
I’m not sure I understand the significant of unequal distribution of the dealt cards in the discard rack. After all, I consider the way the players hit & stand and the way dealer picks up the dealt cards as part of the random process, and IMO, it is not necessary to artificially/mechanically alter the naturally occurring random process created by the dealer and the players. Why does this naturally occurring process have to be altered?
I’ve seen dealer at various casinos manually performed “light” or quick "shuffle" before putting the cards into a shuffle machine. Would this additional “light” card rearrangement step solve the issue of unequal distributed dealt cards in the discard rack?
And yet not a one of them ever has time to actually record their hands.
I mean if you are not keeping count, how will you know if you lost 31 hands in a row ?
Quote: SAMIAMI still can not figure out how the shufflers know how many people are playing, if the idiot at 3rd base will or will not take the dealers break card. And yet posters here somehow believe the dealers benefits ? Worse yet, seems the posters have time to recount how they were cheaters, how often they and the whole table lost, chances of getting a two card twenty are dismal, etc.
And yet not a one of them ever has time to actually record their hands.
I mean if you are not keeping count, how will you know if you lost 31 hands in a row ?
Even though it was not my fault I often felt bad whenever I took a card for whatever reason (for example taking a hit on 12 vs. dealer 2 up card) that unfortunately resulted in a negative outcome to everyone at the table or to certain players. And on subsequent play, if the everyone won or a player had blackjack, I often reminded the player(s) that my action earlier that resulted in negative outcome was the reason for the positive outcome in the current hand ...
Separate a deck of cards into high, low and neutral. Then begin to rearrange the deck in the sequence high, low, neutral, high, low,... . As the cards are dealt the count will be 1, -1, 0, 1, -1, 0, ... . And that will be true regardless of cut or player skill.
(a paragraph from "lacasinoman" page 8 of this thread describes one result of being able to generate a high proportion of stiff hands)
"Now secondly, what most people never seem to add into the mix is that the dealer always goes last, thus giving the edge to the house. Even if the dealer busts, as long as the player busted also, the dealer wins. So the fact is, the dealer is the only player on the table that can bust and still win because he immediately took all the players money that busted before him. So to create a shoe where everyone will likely get stiff hands including the dealer is a huge plus for the house. So the fact is, the cards don't have to be stacked in the dealers favor for the shoe to be bad for the players. The house doesn't care how many times a dealer gets a bad hand, as long as the players get them also. You will never know that hole card until all players have made thier play, and if you busted, it doesn't matter if the dealer busted, you still lose. "
Of course my example is the extreme case of reducing count variability and would be too obvious in practice but if you have a machine with the ability to reorder cards in the shuffler it will not be difficult to obtain a set of different sequences of cards that will increase the house edge by holding the count nearer to zero than a random shuffle would.
My point is that there exist patents for shuffle machines with the ability to reorder the cards to a pre-selected order and that such an order is non-random because the random "slugs" of high and low value cards are eliminated and that such a machine increases the house edge.
Consider a random distribution of the first twenty natural numbers. If I were to notice that some of the even numbers were clustered (which they would be) and I rearranged them to reduce slugs of even numbers; would you still consider it a random distribution? I think not because each number no longer has the equal probability of being in each position.
The shuffle machine should shuffle the discards to some state of randomness. It shouldn't rearrange the cards.
What do you think?
Quote: SAMIAMI still can not figure out how the shufflers know how many people are playing, if the idiot at 3rd base will or will not take the dealers break card. And yet posters here somehow believe the dealers benefits ? Worse yet, seems the posters have time to recount how they were cheaters, how often they and the whole table lost, chances of getting a two card twenty are dismal, etc.
And yet not a one of them ever has time to actually record their hands.
I mean if you are not keeping count, how will you know if you lost 31 hands in a row ?
You'd be very surprised what they know. They know how many people are there and how much each person has bet just by you putting your chip in the betting circle on the table. There are sensors that not only know what positions have a player, but also how much they bet. They track your action as you play. They know exactly how much you have lost and won simply by you putting your chips in that circle.
I haven't figured out how yet, but there is a casino here in my town that I'm darn near 100% positive is cheating, somehow. There have been some very head scratching things happen while I've played BJ there that the odds of it happening are astronomical that I can't ignore. I'm ok with losing as I figure I'm going to pay to have a good time playing some cards. I've played Reno, Tahoe, Vegas, Atlantic City, and Indian Casinos all over the country. But this place is ludicrous and something is wrong. My next step is to just go and watch some of the tables and see if I can figure it out. I'm not putting anymore money on their tables though.
Quote: DiogenesSeparate a deck of cards into high, low and neutral. Then begin to rearrange the deck in the sequence high, low, neutral, high, low,... . As the cards are dealt the count will be 1, -1, 0, 1, -1, 0, ... . And that will be true regardless of cut or player skill.
I'd kill for a game that presented cards in such a uniform way. My winnings would more than cover the fees of my defence lawyer.
Especially to ward off unwanted , advantaged or lucky players with high winnings or long streaks-
Unbealivabley done and flawlessley.
I´m sorry to break the is question is on so many forums and no one dares sy the truth.. or it is censured.. I built 3 casinos and have worked tightly with owners.. the mentioned it but after being an aadvantaged olayer at cmpeteing casinos of those i built.. well I must let you all know the truth, the cards can be put at random shuffle or in ORDER shuffle. In Order Shuffle cards can be read. And in my case being an advantaged player as well ,I am not welcomed at most casinos, at those casinos especially those run By Cirsa - Codere they will Order the cards as soon as I hit their tables.The dealers know me and or pit bosses do and will delay the game a bit then the action begins giving dealer constant 20 and 21 and blackjack or extended 2,3,6,7,3,3 amazing but true I just laugh and smile and give their cameras and dealers a thubs up and pla Baccarat or Poker. The know I know what hey do and acceot it and so do I I don't play the house on those games, I can only do it at casinos where I am not known. I somethimes outrack them playing 2 or three hands and back to one hand but they will win, the stacking is made so perfectly and at the end that it wil beat all the changes made or siorientations I have tried. Confromted one day I told them I knew and the said .. ¨so if you know just dont play us in Blackjack or the house stick to holdem Poker nad do not challenge us..¨they told me. All CSM can do it but the One to Sx is the best at it.
Quote: JESUS1YES!, Totally Possible and it is done often!
Especially to ward off unwanted , advantaged or lucky players with high winnings or long streaks-
Unbealivabley done and flawlessley.
I´m sorry to break the is question is on so many forums and no one dares sy the truth.. or it is censured.. I built 3 casinos and have worked tightly with owners.. the mentioned it but after being an aadvantaged olayer at cmpeteing casinos of those i built.. well I must let you all know the truth, the cards can be put at random shuffle or in ORDER shuffle. In Order Shuffle cards can be read. And in my case being an advantaged player as well ,I am not welcomed at most casinos, at those casinos especially those run By Cirsa - Codere they will Order the cards as soon as I hit their tables.The dealers know me and or pit bosses do and will delay the game a bit then the action begins giving dealer constant 20 and 21 and blackjack or extended 2,3,6,7,3,3 amazing but true I just laugh and smile and give their cameras and dealers a thubs up and pla Baccarat or Poker. The know I know what hey do and acceot it and so do I I don't play the house on those games, I can only do it at casinos where I am not known. I somethimes outrack them playing 2 or three hands and back to one hand but they will win, the stacking is made so perfectly and at the end that it wil beat all the changes made or siorientations I have tried. Confromted one day I told them I knew and the said .. ¨so if you know just dont play us in Blackjack or the house stick to holdem Poker nad do not challenge us..¨they told me. All CSM can do it but the One to Sx is the best at it.
Any other made up stories you care to share with the forum?
Quote: hitme21I've been playing BJ for over 30 years, all over the world. I've played every BJ Table game imaginable. I can tell you with 100% certainty that the ASM Machine Shuffle games dealt out of a shoe, are much worse than the Hand Shuffle games dealt out of a shoe. Same with double deck. The assumption is that you play basic strategy. I have observed over many years, the countless number of mind boggling losing streaks on machine shuffle games, whereas hand shuffle will have bad losing streaks, but also are balanced by good winning streaks. I don't know how the machine shuffler "clump" the cards, but I can tell you from OBSERVATION and with 100% certainty that the Machine Shuffle BJ will clump the cards to the house's favor. This is a fact. You will push alot on good pat hands. You will bust alot more. The dealer will make their hand (not bust) alot more often on a Machine Shuffle machine. No it's not paranoia, but rather a scientific observation over many many years of playing the game. I base my belief simply on 30+ years of playing BJ. I stress that nobody needs to be able to explain HOW it's done. Knowing it happens thru observation alone, and on a consistent basis, is proof enough for me. If anyone wants to challenge me, they simply don't know any better or work in the industry, and don't want people to know that the Machine Shuffle BJ clumps the cards in the house favor. It's true that a ASM Machine Shuffle game will allow the Casino to deal more hands per hour, but that's a moot point. Finally I will say this... If you want "proof" of How it's done, well I don't need any proof on "how" it's done. I just have to be confident that the Machine shuffle will in fact clump the cards. Again this is thru many years of observation. Think of it this way.... If you move to Las Vegas Nevada, you will notice simply from observation that it is hotter than hell in the Summer year after year. The reality is that you don't need to be a meteorologist with a burden of proof on "how" or "why" it's hotter than hell every Summer. Simply thru many years of living there, and by observation will convince anyone that Las Vegas is, and will in all probability continue to be hotter than hell in all the Summers in the future. I am not interested in debating my point with anyone, because to me, it would be like someone trying to convince me that Las Vegas is cold in the Summer. It's a waste of my time. I know what I know based on 30+ years of playing BJ all over the globe on ASM machine shuffle and Hand Shuffle games. I or anyone who understands this fact, is not paranoid. There is no reason for me to be biased toward one or the other. Stay clear of machine shuffle machines if you play basic strategy. Sure you may find a good machine shuffle game on rare occasions, but over the long haul, you will find that they are full of horrible losing streaks. You will (over the long haul) lose more hands on a Machine Shuffle machine. Period. You can take my advice, or find out the hard way on your own. Anyone who disagrees with me is wrong. Forgive me if someone believes that sounds arrogant, but I am 100% certain that i am right about this fact. I'd like to save players alot of heartache. If you disagree, and insist on playing machine shuffle games, then don't come crying to me the day you finally figure it out on your own dime. If the Casinos are reading this post, then implement Hand Shuffle BJ. You'll see my bright shining face again. Thank you. Have a nice day everyone, and all the best.
You are wrong, but have a good day anyway.
ZCore13
Quote: hitme21I've been playing BJ for over 30 years, all over the world. I've played every BJ Table game imaginable. I can tell you with 100% certainty that the ASM Machine Shuffle games dealt out of a shoe, are much worse than the Hand Shuffle games dealt out of a shoe. . .
Quote:I have observed over many years . . .
Quote:I can tell you from OBSERVATION and with 100% certainty . . .
Quote:This is a fact. . .
Quote:No it's not paranoia, but rather a scientific observation . . .
Quote:If anyone wants to challenge me, they simply don't know any better or work in the industry. . .
Well, there we have it. Incontrovertible, definitive proof. Shall I close the thread now ? :o)
Oh.... and welcome to the forum HitMe21.
P.S. luv ur sarcasm. oh.. and please don't hurt yourself on the tables trying to prove me wrong. Consider my post to be "Tough Love". I won't debate the subject tho, because I know that I am 100% definitively correct. But maybe other people will like to debate amongst themselves?.... and share their BJ war stories. In the mean time you can find me on a Hand Shuffle BJ game. - Cheers!
Quote: hitme21There you go ... ZCore13 is an Employee of a Casino. Oh I am so right ZCore13.... and you know it. And that's why you replied. Defend all you want, but the jig is up my friend. The word is out. No soup for you anymore.
Lol. Funny. And trust me... I gets lots of soup. :)
ZCore13
Quote: hitme21I'd leave it open as a warning to not play Machine Shuffle games. Boycott all Machine Shuffle BlackJack games. Play Hand Shuffle or nothing at all.
P.S. luv ur sarcasm. oh.. and please don't hurt yourself on the tables trying to prove me wrong. Consider my post to be "Tough Love". I won't debate the subject tho, because I know that I am 100% definitively correct. But maybe other people will like to debate amongst themselves?.... and share their BJ war stories. In the mean time you can find me on a Hand Shuffle BJ game. - Cheers!
So you are saying ALL casinos that you a shuffle machine are cheating, not just a rare one? You don't think that it is just the house edge that has beaten you over your 30 years of BJ agony?
That's a Seinfeld reference.Quote: Zcore13Lol. Funny. And trust me... I gets lots of soup. :)
ZCore13
Quote: onenickelmiracleThat's a Seinfeld reference.
And a damn good one.
claims, none, So I am unable to agree with you If you ever come across
any facts & evidence please let me know.
I wish I had a bean counter recording every basic strategy hand that I played throughout my life, and I guarantee you that my FACT would jump out at anyone who read the chart. I wish you would believe me, because then we can all boycott these silly machines, so BJ would be what it used to be.... a much more pure game without any automation. If you play long enough, and as much as I have, you will figure it out on your own though. I belong to a group of long time BJ players, and none of us would even consider playing any Machine Shuffle BJ game anymore. We all had our own individual epiphanies.. Did you ever notice that sometimes the only way to get a hand shuffle is in the high limit room? Finally, let me leave you with a thought. If you are familiar with the Vegas BJ scene, have you ever noticed that most of the locals casinos predominantly have Hand Shuffle BJ? Mostly .. not all.. but the majority are hand shuffle. Again these are locals casinos where the locals play daily. Experienced Locals (for the most part) won't play machine shuffle BJ. I know cuz I am one of many. Isn't it cool how hand shuffle games get a different shuffler every hour or so, with different physical hands on their body? Doesn't it suck how machine shuffle BJ has the same dealer (machine), shuffling the cards 24x7 ? I think so. So if you want to believe I am of the opinion that machine shuffle games clump the cards, then I must tell you that I am also of the opinion that the weather is hot in Vegas, the majority of the time. Sorry not evidence other than my experience, and I don't even understand weather science. I also am of the opinion that my round tires, roll better than square tires. I am not even an auto mechanic either. lol. ... but I can tell you with 100% certainty that I am right, based on many years of observation (not bad luck or superstition). I really don't want to see any customer have decreased odds against the casino. Try this … Go to Vegas for one month, and play consistently 3 - 4 days per week, only 6 deck hand shuffle. Then go to Phoenix Arizona for one month, and play only 6 deck machine shuffle. In conclusion, I just want to recap the main point. Assuming you are playing basic strategy, you will as a FACT lose more hands over time by playing a machine shuffle game (not continuous), than you will a Hand Shuffle game dealt out of a shoe. The same applies to Double Deck. Play Hand shuffle. Don't be shy about table jumping either.... but that's yet another topic. --Too soon we get old, and too late we get smart - - Learning is a change of Behavior based on experience.
Quote: SYBS4S1EThey are completely rigged and can be remotely programmed. This was info I received personally from a current employee from Bally
Funny you mention Bally's because that's one of the places I cant win at. Like I have said all along, the center of the strip with the big boys like Caesars Palace, Ballys, Planet Hollywood, Bellagio, it's ALL rigged. Every single one of those places I'm a huge loser at and it's not a coincidence they all use ASM's for the shoe games I play there.
The fact that I still can't be beat in this city overall says a lot LOL. Nice try china town.
Quote: ZenKinGFunny you mention Bally's because that's one of the places I cant win at. Like I have said all along, the center of the strip with the big boys like Caesars Palace, Ballys, Planet Hollywood, Bellagio, it's ALL rigged. Every single one of those places I'm a huge loser at and it's not a coincidence they all use ASM's for the shoe games I play there.
The fact that I still can't be beat in this city overall says a lot LOL. Nice try china town.
Dont ever give up on thinking they can rig these machines ZenKinG, as i play on them all the time at sands bethlehem and know exactly what you have seen. its as if every move was planned and they pull 21 when you play basic strategy,but its as if you shouldnt have most of the time.
Quote: hitme21I wish I had a bean counter recording every basic strategy hand that I played throughout my life, and I guarantee you that my FACT would jump out at anyone who read the chart.
Google "Selective Memory"
Quote: heatmapDont ever give up on thinking they can rig these machines ZenKinG, as i play on them all the time at sands bethlehem and know exactly what you have seen. its as if every move was planned and they pull 21 when you play basic strategy,but its as if you shouldnt have most of the time.
Occasionally doubling down on twenty will confuse the program. Convince your fellow players and it lets you do it less often.
Once every two or three shuffles is sufficient.
Quote: heatmapDont ever give up on thinking they can rig these machines ZenKinG, as i play on them all the time at sands bethlehem and know exactly what you have seen. its as if every move was planned and they pull 21 when you play basic strategy,but its as if you shouldnt have most of the time.
Funny how you also mention sands bethlehem, that was also a place I struggled at back home and were all ASMs.
Quote: ZenKinGFunny how you also mention sands bethlehem, that was also a place I struggled at back home and were all ASMs.
ive been reading your posts and its very very suspicious to me that you say PA is the only state that you cant beat. i agree it cant be beat, but you can try to find the periods of time where they let you win
Quote: heatmapive been reading your posts and its very very suspicious to me that you say PA is the only state that you cant beat. i agree it cant be beat, but you can try to find the periods of time where they let you win
I never said PA couldnt be beat. Theres only 2 casinos in PA that beat me and that was Harrahs and Sands. Mohegan small loss there as well, but ill leave them out because of a small sample size there.
With that being said I was almost at breakeven at Sands before I moved out to Vegas. Harrahs on the other hand absolutely crushed me ever since they changed out their 8 deck games and went to 6 deck games.
Harrahs in Chester is the place that needs to be investigated. It was all too coincidental for me to start losing as soon as they went to 6 decks. We all know Harrahs is known as the Evil Empire and is the one that started destroying the blackjack games, so why would they make the game more beneficial to the player by going from 8 decks to 6 decks with those kinds of rules that PA offers. Suspicious to say the least.
