Last PA casino license granted, how will it work out?
Nemacolin Woodlands has gotten the last remaining PA casino license. This is a "resort" liscense per the article and it will be smaller than most of the other casinos in PA. For now looks to be slots-only with table games to come at a later date. My guess is they open slots-only fairly fast and then hire management to train dealers, something that should take about 6 months.
For th 98% of readers not local, Nemacolin is owned by Joe Hardy, founder of 84 Lumber of nearby Eighty-Four, PA (yes, that is the name of the town!) The Hardy Family is to Fayette County (home of Nemacolin) what the Ewing Family was to fictional Braddock County on the TV show "Dallas." Nemacolin Woodlands is a golf-resort/conference center in the mountains. This will make the resort a sort-of "Hotel-Casino" as unklike Vegas there is business for the resort even without the casino being there first.
It was not my choice since the location is very remote and access is, to be polite, terrible. One 2-lane road up and down some very steep mountains. Very dark at night, middle of nowhere. Several PGA Players skip it on the tour due to access being so difficutlt. There is a private air-strip on the property, nearest real commercial airport is PIT, 2+ hours away.
Anyone else familiar with the area care to add any points?
Frankly, I think that the board was simply to sensitive to complaints that the gaming policy was designed to drain money from working class PA people. No working class people will be anywhere near Nemocolin. The Gettysburg location is simply too sensitive, and the idea of putting another resort on the NJ border is risky. Mount Airy is not making any money, and if NJ puts a casino in the northern part of the state, then all of that money going to the Poconos is going to dry up.
The gamble may pay off. Future helicopters will go over 300 miles per hour, and allow convenient trips to these posh resorts from NYC. They may cater to some high rollers someday.
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The 12th PA casino license was awarded today to Nemacolin Woodlands Resort in a remote area of Western PA about 60 miles from the Meadows racetrack. It has two golf courses, a spa with 100 treatments and a full-service salon, fitness center, tennis courts and six swimming pools. Rooms are between $300 and $800 per night. It's more or less the Pennsylvania equivalent of the Greenbriar.
Falling Rock is a tiny 42 room four suite resort on the grounds which holds a Forbes Five-Star, and AAA Five Diamonds.
Quote: AZDuffman... nearby Eighty-Four, PA (yes, that is the name of the town!) ...
Reminds me of Ninety-Six, SC, sometimes just written "96". How many (real) towns are there with numeric names? And I'm not referring to those who claim, "We're #1" while looking more like #2.
Quote: DocReminds me of Ninety-Six, SC, sometimes just written "96". How many (real) towns are there with numeric names? And I'm not referring to those who claim, "We're #1" while looking more like #2.
Seventy Six, and Eighty Eight Kentucky and Sixes, Oregon,
Intercourse, Pennsylvania (pop. roughly 1,558) is an unincorporated village in Leacock Township, Lancaster County in the U.S. state of Pennsylvania, ten miles east of Lancaster on PA 340. The movie Witness was filmed in Intercourse.
"Another theory concerns two famous roads that crossed here. The Old King's highway from Philadelphia to Pittsburgh (now the Old Philadelphia Pike) ran east and west through the center of the town. The road from Wilmington to Erie intersected in the middle. The joining of these two roads is claimed by some to be the basis for the town 'Cross Keys' or eventually 'Intercourse'. A final idea comes from the use of language during the early days of the Village. The word 'intercourse' was commonly used to describe the 'fellowship' and 'social interaction and support' shared in the community of faith, which was much a part of a rural village like this one."
If you fail to make it to Intercourse, you might end up in Blue Ball 50 miles away.
Quote: DocReminds me of Ninety-Six, SC, sometimes just written "96". How many (real) towns are there with numeric names? And I'm not referring to those who claim, "We're #1" while looking more like #2.
The original gold rush trail to Barkerville has left several communities in British Columbia with names that actual have the numeric digits in their official name. 100 Mile House, 150 Mile House and 70 Mile House. 100 Mile House is the only one that is actually an incorporated village. Some of the other mile houses still exist but don't have a community around them.
First, it will not be in the hotel or main resort but rather a little ways down the road, Maryland direction. This will give it visibility.
Second, Nemacolin has no intention to run it themselves but have already made arrangements to rent the concession, I forget to whom.
Though the concession is rented Nemacolin has marketing plans. Word I got was they *will not* go the AC route and go after bus tours. They plan that table games will be the focus and are going after higher-rollers. No idea how this will affect minimums, etc. At only 600 slots and 50 table games it will be the smallest casino in the area. Maybe someone could put 600 slots/50 tables into prespective by mentioning what Vegas Property comes closest?
Quote: AZDuffmanThough the concession is rented Nemacolin has marketing plans. Word I got was they *will not* go the AC route and go after bus tours. They plan that table games will be the focus and are going after higher-rollers. No idea how this will affect minimums, etc. At only 600 slots and 50 table games it will be the smallest casino in the area. Maybe someone could put 600 slots/50 tables into prespective by mentioning what Vegas Property comes closest?
Buses wouldn't do them any good, they are too far from population center, and Pittsburgh has the downtown casinos and the racetrack casino at The Meadows.
Wynn Encore has 95 tables and 780 slots. Casino Royale has 544 slots.
Possibly a better analogy would be Montbleau resort in south Lake Tahoe with 626 slots and 30 games + poker tables.
Montbleau's competition is:
Harvey's (& Harrah's) resort with 1648 slots, 134 table games, and 46 poker tables.
Lakeside Inn 339 slots, 12 games & poker tables
Horizon Casino 200 slots, no tables.
The four Lake Tahoe resorts make $210 million in slot revenue (2751 machines), and $57.3 million in table games and poker (not counting race & sports). Total is 168 games & 22 poker tables.
But for western PA, table games monthly average $2.4m for Meadows racetrack (60 miles away) and slots are $22m per month. Obviously no one will travel an extra 60 miles for slots, but possibly a few people will come that far for tables if it's a nicer venue.
Quote: pacomartin
But for western PA, table games monthly average $2.4m for Meadows racetrack (60 miles away) and slots are $22m per month. Obviously no one will travel an extra 60 miles for slots, but possibly a few people will come that far for tables if it's a nicer venue.
I agree they will not drain much form Rivers/Meadows. But I think there are plenty of folks in Fayette Coiunty and Northwest Maryland who would drop by. It never ceases to amaze me how much we tend to underestimate the population and wealth of such rural areas.
Quote: AZDuffmanI agree they will not drain much form Rivers/Meadows. But I think there are plenty of folks in Fayette Coiunty and Northwest Maryland who would drop by. It never ceases to amaze me how much we tend to underestimate the population and wealth of such rural areas.
Elko County in northeastern Nevada makes $258 million in gaming revenue. They have probably a third of the population of Fayette county in PA, but they draw in tourism from Salt Lake city and Twin Falls Idaho.
Looking at the Atlantic City Revenue more closely, it seems they went from increasing their revenue by $200m a year to losing $300m (slots only) in 2007 when they got competition with the slot clubs attached to the Philadelphia area racetracks. That was before the recession. When the recession hit, the combination of the fiscal situation and the competition meant that they started losing $400m to $600m a year.
Pennsylvania could get slammed if New Jersey changes there mind , and begins building slot clubs in their population centers. The new slot club at in Queen's New York might suck up a huge part of the business.
I think they were smart trying to add a high end resort to the mix. I agree that it was a smarter decision than the Valley Forge, Harrisburg, or a 3rd Poconos location.
Is it possible that the High End Resort was a publicity ploy. Oh, one they hope will be profitable but a publicity ploy nonetheless. Fewer neighborhood groups protest if its gonna be millionaires losing their shirts or if its out in the remote boonies. That way its a fast track to a license and no actual or manufactured opposition groups.Quote: pacomartinI think they were smart trying to add a high end resort to the mix.
Quote: FleaStiffIs it possible that the High End Resort was a publicity ploy. Oh, one they hope will be profitable but a publicity ploy nonetheless. Fewer neighborhood groups protest if its gonna be millionaires losing their shirts or if its out in the remote boonies. That way its a fast track to a license and no actual or manufactured opposition groups.
It is out in the boonies. I don't think there is even a McDonald's within 10 miles or more.
Quote: pacomartinFrankly, I think that the board was simply to sensitive to complaints that the gaming policy was designed to drain money from working class PA people. No working class people will be anywhere near Nemocolin. The Gettysburg location is simply too sensitive, and the idea of putting another resort on the NJ border is risky. Mount Airy is not making any money, and if NJ puts a casino in the northern part of the state, then all of that money going to the Poconos is going to dry up.
Governor Rendell called Leslie Stahl a Simpleton since she questioned the wisdom of states getting so involved in gaming.
The other three choices were:
(1) A resort near the Interstate border with New Jersey. Well, they already have one casino within a 22 miles driving distance of the new proposed resort.
(2) A resort near Valley Forge (has the historical purists freaked out
(3) Harrisburg (state capitol) which is one of the highest crime rate districts in the state, and loaded with poor black people
When Pennsylvania started the racetrack casinos near Philadelphia at the end of 2006, beginning of 2007 the slot revenue in Atlantic City started going down immediately (Jan 2007). There was no loyalty, there is no argument that it's more fun to drive to a city to play slots with dozens of casinos to choose from. All that mattered is there was a choice within a few minutes of driving. January of 2007 was well before the recession. The table games in AC held on for two more years.
It seems to me that PA is just as vulnerable if NJ tries to up their ante, and build casinos in Trenton, Camden, or in Newark (or the Meadowlands).
There is not much that can be done, but if you are able to develop some casinos in a resort like Nemocolin, there will be some protection.
Quote: pacomartin
It seems to me that PA is just as vulnerable if NJ tries to up their ante, and build casinos in Trenton, Camden, or in Newark (or the Meadowlands).
There is not much that can be done, but if you are able to develop some casinos in a resort like Nemocolin, there will be some protection.
Let NJ build, competiton is good for everyone. Here in Western PA the new build will give us five real choices. But in reality few people will drive far. Unless I get a really good reason there is no way I am burning off $20 in gas to go to Wheeling/Nemicolan/Mountaineer. I prefer Rivers except for poker where I prefer Meadows.
But in any case, lets get some sports-books. And VP in smaller establishments, a la the "restricted license" concept in NV.
Man, you really want to turn Las Vegas into one big giant museum where what little tourism there is consists of people who gawk at empty buildings and dried up fountains while they talk about how in olden times people actually traveled to Vegas to gamble instead of to the corner grocery store.Quote: AZDuffmanBut in any case, lets get some sports-books. And VP in smaller establishments, a la the "restricted license" concept in NV.
Every state seems to think that whether gambling is good or bad makes no difference, its that the money is going to another state that is bad.
Quote: FleaStiffMan, you really want to turn Las Vegas into one big giant museum where what little tourism there is consists of people who gawk at empty buildings and dried up fountains while they talk about how in olden times people actually traveled to Vegas to gamble instead of to the corner grocery store.
Every state seems to think that whether gambling is good or bad makes no difference, its that the money is going to another state that is bad.
I think it is more a matter of "money not coming to them" that is bad. Competition improves things for all. I just want to be able to bet sports in my own time zone.
Quote: AZDuffmanI think it is more a matter of "money not coming to them" that is bad. Competition improves things for all. I just want to be able to bet sports in my own time zone.
Fundamentally I agree with you, its just that the "devil in the details" situation is where we seem to differ.
>Competition improves things for all.
You know I really and truly do believe this. Everything from fast food joints selecting locations right next door to each other to just about any field of endeavor, competition is good. You never lose an entire industry if the individual manufacturers are competing.
Its just that if you look at places like the Riviera, the Sahara, ... its plain that the competition is too much for them.
If you look at City Center and Cosmopolitan, its less plain due to all the hoopla and hype. The rooms at the Sahara were ultra clean but often went for one dollar. Yet the Sahara can no longer compete and shutters its hotel on May 15th or so and its casino a bit later. The situation at City Center is filtered, but its probably not all that much better.
Reno does poorly due to California Indian casinos dotting the highways. The "competition" doesn't have to be good, it just has to be close to the highway. The competition seems to lead to nearly empty casinos rather than just narrower margins.
>bet sports in my own time zone.
Well, its always your own time zone if you are at your home computer.
I guess what you are talking about is that you want to physically stroll down to a sports book rather than trek to Las Vegas for a sports book. I see nothing wrong with that.
Quote: FleaStiffMan, you really want to turn Las Vegas into one big giant museum where what little tourism there is consists of people who gawk at empty buildings and dried up fountains while they talk about how in olden times people actually traveled to Vegas to gamble instead of to the corner grocery store.
Every state seems to think that whether gambling is good or bad makes no difference, its that the money is going to another state that is bad.
It is a little disturbing to see that PA built this system with so little regard to opportunities for the little guy, or any competition at all. The casinos except for downtown Philadelphia must be at least 15 miles apart. The slots are much tighter than they are in Las Vegas
PA has been operating for almost 4.5 years now, and slot revenue will likely surpass Atlantic city this year. Atlantic city had 28 years of growth, followed by what looks to be 40% decline in 5 years.
Sooner or later someone will build a casino in Jersey City.
The competition will go up soon in Ohio.
Quote: FleaStiffIts just that if you look at places like the Riviera, the Sahara, ... its plain that the competition is too much for them.
If you look at City Center and Cosmopolitan, its less plain due to all the hoopla and hype. The rooms at the Sahara were ultra clean but often went for one dollar. Yet the Sahara can no longer compete and shutters its hotel on May 15th or so and its casino a bit later. The situation at City Center is filtered, but its probably not all that much better.
Ah, but that is the point. I am sad to see Sahara go, but by the same token does anyone really *like* the quality of the place? Classic look, but also looks like next to zero upkeep since 1970. Maybe something better will move in there. We have talked at legnth as to empty casinos that still do not lower limits or improve games.
Quote: pacomartin
The other three choices were:
(2) A resort near Valley Forge (has the historical purists freaked out
(3) Harrisburg (state capitol) which is one of the highest crime rate districts in the state, and loaded with poor black people
2. I thought the slots at the convention center in King of Prussia also got approved.
3. Isn't there a Hollywood casino ~10 miles from Harrisburg?
Quote: rdw4potus2. I thought the slots at the convention center in King of Prussia also got approved.
3. Isn't there a Hollywood casino ~10 miles from Harrisburg?
Valley Forge Center near King of Prussia was approved several years ago. They have been in litigation with PARX until recently.
Hollywood Penn National , the existing casino is about 23 miles from the proposed location at Harrisburg West Inn and Conference Center.
Of the four new proposals competing for the last casino license, except for Nemocolin, the proposed casino locations were not extraordinarily different than the existing casino locations.
Quote: pacomartinOf the four new proposals competing for the last casino license, except for Nemocolin, the proposed casino locations were not extraordinarily different than the existing casino locations.
I'm pretty sure that we had previous communication regarding the last license; it frankly was pretty much a foregone conclusion that the last license was going to be awarded to Nemacolin Woodlands--none of the others either made much sense or were too politically controversial. The Fernwood application made no sense whatsoever especially in view of the cry and hue over the loss of business at Mount Airy following the opening of Sands-Bethlehem.
In any event, have you been following the goings-on at the Gaming Commission?
1. Speaker of the House McCall resigned his position without much explanation only to later accept a position on the Control Board (with a $40k/year raise)?
2. Much to do about how Mount Airy with controversial owner Louis DeNaples was awarded the license over Pocono Manor?
It seems like this might be the beginning of a true fiasco.
Quote: NiblickI'm pretty sure that we had previous communication regarding the last license; it frankly was pretty much a foregone conclusion that the last license was going to be awarded to Nemacolin Woodlands--none of the others either made much sense or were too politically controversial. The Fernwood application made no sense whatsoever especially in view of the cry and hue over the loss of business at Mount Airy following the opening of Sands-Bethlehem.
In any event, have you been following the goings-on at the Gaming Commission?
1. Speaker of the House McCall resigned his position without much explanation only to later accept a position on the Control Board (with a $40k/year raise)?
2. Much to do about how Mount Airy with controversial owner Louis DeNaples was awarded the license over Pocono Manor?
It seems like this might be the beginning of a true fiasco.
For those of you not up to speed in Pennsylvania. The six licenses to the existing racetracks to make them racinos was pretty much a no brainer deal.
PA has built four stand alone casinos in addition to the racinos. One was Sands in Bethlehem PA, one was in downtown Pittsburgh, one in downtown Philadelphia (Sugar House), and one in the Poconos awarded to Mount Airy resort instead of another resort named Pocono Manor.
While the racinos basically went off without a hitch, everyone of the stand alone casinos has had serious problems with financing, neighborhood protests, and in the case of the Poconos, with mob connections.
My take on the situation with Mount Airy is a little cynical. The casino isn't producing much slot revenue. It's running 12 month high was for slots peaked at $186 million a few years ago, and is now down around $144 million. The slot revenue is where the state makes the lions share of it's profits with 55% tax rate. The table games are only taxed at 16% to be reduced to 14%. PA is looking at it's shittiest casino and they want to give the license to someone else.
The resort is 18 miles from New Jersey. The state wants to move the casino to Pocono Manor, or to have it sold to Ceasars, MGM Resorts, Penn National, or Foxwoods. They think it is capable of making a lot more money.
The license was awarded five years ago. Why complain about procedures now, if you don't want to take the license away?
Unless GoogleMaps made an error, that's 2 miles from Mt. Airy.Quote: pacomartinThe state wants to move the casino to Pocono Manor....
And it's about a 40 mile drive to Sands, or 38 miles to Mohegan Sun. The next closest casino would be Parx in Philly, about a 115 mile drive. Actually, I think there is a Racino in New York that is closer.
Google map of PA Casinos
with all of the new casinos popping up all over the place, the best in show will prevail. companies that cater to what people want and are not whores like the ones that are/were in ac, will do fine. emphasis on entertainment and restaurants and sexy woman. that will keep the casinos packed. obviously they have to run operations lean and make sure the dealers and pit bosses arent stealing like they did at the Taj. Oh yea, they learned from their boss, Donald. all good!
Quote: DJTeddyBearUnless GoogleMaps made an error, that's 2 miles from Mt. Airy. And it's about a 40 mile drive to Sands, or 38 miles to Mohegan Sun.
Yes, ' rel='nofollow' target='_blank'>http://www.poconomanor.com/pages/maps.htm] The Inn at Pocono Manor and Mount Airy Casino are literally right across the street from one anotherfrom one another. The competition between the two resorts for the casino license was fierce. When Inn at Pocono Manor lost, they sued, and the State Supreme court upheld the ruling in July 2007 only 90 days before Mount Airy opened their casino.
A third Pocono resort, named Fernwood Hotel applied for the last remaining mini-casino license (500 slot machines and up to 50 tables) which is in the same county as the other two.
They are all after the customer that lives in the region near where DJTeddyBear lives, in northern NJ.
But the main point is that Mount Airy has the lowest numbers in the state. Now with a ruling that the license was given to a mob-connected businessman without proper vetting, these other resorts can sue to have the casino moved. I suspect that Louis DeNaples will sell the resort to someone with another PA license before they move the casino. Possibilities include Foxwoods (who never built their casino in downtown Philadelphia), Penn National, Ceasars Corporation (who has the license in Chester PA).
An article about the mob in Northeastern PA is available in Wikipedia. The historic meeting of over 100 mobsters in 1957 was the basis for the mob meeting in the fantastic movie, Analyze This.
Quote: WatchMeWinit still cracks me up... it was bad and illegal before, but now that the states need money, they legalize it everywhere and it is not bad anymore?
See also: marijuana. And there was a reason the 21st Amendment was ratified in 1933.
If our society dictates what is right or wrong.. but then revoke those rules based upon monetary needs. How do we know what will get us to heaven?
Quote: WatchMeWinIf our society dictates what is right or wrong.. but then revoke those rules based upon monetary needs. How do we know what will get us to heaven?
What is your point? Was the US government wrong on the 18th amendment or the 21st amendment? Standards of public morality are always changing.
Quote: WatchMeWin7out... exactly my point. Hypocrits they are.
If our society dictates what is right or wrong.. but then revoke those rules based upon monetary needs. How do we know what will get us to heaven?
Separation of church and state means your looking in the wrong place if your looking toward Washington for spiritual guidance.
Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner.Quote: pacomartinStandards of public morality are always changing.
I have been to Hollywood 3 or 4 times, and it is okay. Still paying for the beer, and the craps rules are still marginal, but overall it was okay. I don't have any qualms about going back, even though I have yet to win a session there.
Mohegan Sun in Pocono Downs I have been to once and I liked it. More upscale and definitely seemed to try and bring more glitz. Beer was free if you were betting $25 or more. They had a number of upscale restaurants to choose from. I will certainly be stopping there on my trips back through PA each year.
When I was winning on the craps tables I could have played in a dump and probably would not have cared one bit. However, since I was running bad in '10, I had to look at the value of the total experience, and I found losing money in a sweat joint to be very unrewarding.
Quote: RaleighCrapsDoubt I will ever go back, especially since I can drive 30 miles and go to Mohegan Sun in Pocono Downs.
I think that statement says it all. On average most people are driving less than 100 miles to get to these casinos, so if you are willing to pass one by and drive an extra 30 miles, that is meaningful.
Louis has put the Mt Airy casino in the name of his family since the pressure has gotten pretty severe, but I think they will force him to sell the property, or take the casino away, and put it another resort in the county.
Quote: pacomartinLouis has put the Mt Airy casino in the name of his family since the pressure has gotten pretty severe, but I think they will force him to sell the property, or take the casino away, and put it another resort in the county.
Concurrent with the rumblings surrounding Mount Airy and its license we have the ongoing corruption investigations in NEPA. The most recent episodes have something like 30 people in a local county courthouse going to jail (with judges, etc.), public officials going to jail, a state senator being indicted, another state senator apparently soon be to indicted, county commissioners awaiting trials/sentencing--and in the middle of all of this, rightly or wrongly, invariably appears the name DeNaples...or in the alternative, his bank, First National Community Bank.
And we may very well be at the beginning stages...
It is truly amazing that while most of the talk centers around Mount Airy, somehow Mohegan Sun--Pocono Downs (located about 1-2 miles away from the epicenter of this corruption thing, Pittston) has managed to steer clear of all of this.
Funny thing...the next good word I hear about Mount Airy will be the first; has anybody heard anything said positive about the place?
I can remember one thing that impressed me. And I mentioned this in the review I posted here last year.Quote: Niblick. . . has anybody heard anything said positive about the place?
When I signed up for a player's card, they scanned the bar code on the back of my driver's license and got all my data that way. And that was several years ago, shortly after they first opened. I've never seen another casino do that.
It ain't much, but it IS one positive thing about the place...
(For the record, I've only been there twice. The second time was shortly after table games opened.)
Quote: teddysInteresting stuff about the N.E. Pa. Mafia, paco. By the way, we used to drive throught Apalachin every year when we would vacation in the Catskills. My dad would always mention the Apalachin meeting.
Apalachin is actually about 5 miles north of the northern border of NE Pennsylvania. Over 100 mafia bosses attended the meeting.
The LIFE story was (9 Dec 1957 BIG SHOTS OF CRIME APALACHIN NY)
Louis DeNaples would have been fairly young during the meeting. He has turned over ownership of the casino to his daughter to try and protect the asset.
Billy Crystal as "The Doctor" in Analyze This.
Quote: DJTeddyBearIt ain't much, but it IS one positive thing about the place...
Come to think of it, I seem to recall something nice being said about a $7.77 Thursday buffett...
Funny thing is that I live about 30 minutes away and the place isn't even on my radar--and I don't know why.
My ex-wife is from Lackawanna County adjacent to Monroe County where Mt. Airy casino. Her family was involved in trucking. If you ever know someone who is the victim of these mobs you don't want to help finance them. If you are from New Jersey to the east of I287 (where most people in NJ live), then it is the same driving distance to Bethlehem Sands as it is to Mt. Airy. Personally, I think you are better off with helping the bottom line of the mega corporation than the mafia.
In general, however, the greed level of corporations and even government can be higher than the mob ever was.
Mount Airy 11 poker tables, 61 gaming tables
Mohegan Sun 18 poker tables, 66 gaming tables
Sands Bethlehem 23 poker tables, 77 gaming tables
PARX 47 poker tables, 104 gaming tables, 11 electronic
"At the blackjack tables, Pennsylvania lures gamblers with sweeter odds than Atlantic City casinos
By MARK GRUETZE For The Press | Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 8:15 pm
Pennsylvania’s casino blackjack rules, which are slightly more player-friendly than New Jersey’s, should remain unchanged, the commonwealth’s Gaming Control Board is recommending.
Table game rules for Pennsylvania must be reviewed because they were made effective for only two years when the state rushed to get the games started last year.
Before Pennsylvania launched table games in July 2010, the Gaming Control Board established rules for all its casinos. Among them are rules that all player blackjacks — an ace and 10-value card on the first two cards — be paid at 3-to-2, or $15 for each $10 bet. Another is that the dealer stands on a soft 17, or ace-six.
New Jersey casinos are allowed to offer single-deck games in which blackjacks pay 6-to-5, or $12 for each $10 bet, and the dealer hits on a soft 17. But 6-to-5 single-deck blackjack games, popular when first introduced seven years ago, are now rare in Atlantic City and most casinos are paying 3-to-2, just as in Pennsylvania. Several casinos have rules where the dealer hits a soft 17, especially on the lower-limit tables.
Pennsylvania rules also include allowing players to double their bets on any two cards, doubling after splitting pairs and “late surrender,” in which a bettor may give up half a bet after the cards are dealt instead of playing the hand. In New Jersey, regulations allow players to double down and double on split pairs; casinos also have the discretion of offering patrons a surrender option; however, Atlantic City casinos rarely offer the late surrender.
The website WizardOfOdds.com states that Pennsylvania’s current rules combine to reduce the house edge to about 0.33 percent for players adhering to basic strategy, which is a mathematically proven playing system. A 0.33 percent edge means a player will lose, on average, 33 cents on an initial $10 bet. That’s less than the house edge in most Las Vegas and Atlantic City games. The house edge using traditional Atlantic City blackjack rules is 0.4 percent for six-deck games and 0.43 percent for eight-deck games for players using a perfect basic strategy.
Michael Shackleford, a former Social Security Administration actuary who operates the Wizard of Odds site, said allowing 6-to-5 payouts would increase the house edge to almost 1.4 percentage points, or almost four times the current level."--Atlantic City Press
PHILADELPHIA (AP) — Pennsylvania's casinos recorded their first annual decline in gross revenue from slot machines during the fiscal year that just ended, the latest sign the state's casino business is leveling off after six years of growth.
The state's 11 casinos generated $2.43 billion in gross slots revenue during the fiscal year that came to a close Sunday, down nearly 2 percent from the $2.48 billion generated the year before, according to Pennsylvania Gaming Control Board figures released this week. The annual slots decline marked the first such decrease since the state's first casino opened in November 2006. . . . Last year, nine of the 10 casinos open for all of both fiscal years reported slots declines as growth slowed. Sands Casino Resort Bethlehem was the only one to post a yearly gain, with gross slots revenue up 1.7 percent to $290.9 million from the year before. Valley Forge Casino Resort outside Philadelphia reported $55.9 million in gross slots revenue over the past year, up from $11.8 million the year before, but it opened in March 2012, so figures for the previous fiscal year were only for three months.
Presque Isle Downs and Casino in Erie reported the biggest annual slots decline, down 16 percent to $138.5 million. That casino has been experiencing significant declines since a new casino opened across the state line in Cleveland in May 2012. . . . Mohegan Sun at Pocono Downs in northeastern Pennsylvania was down about 6 percent, followed by Harrah's Casino Resort Philadelphia, which was down a little more than 5 percent.
Tax revenue from slot machines during the last fiscal year was $1.3 billion, down nearly 3 percent from the year before. The state taxes slot machines at a rate of about 55 percent. bloomberg business week
Quote: SanchoPanzaThe bloom is coming off, and rather quickly at that:
PHILADELPHIA (AP) — Pennsylvania's casinos recorded their first annual decline in gross revenue from slot machines during the fiscal year that just ended, the latest sign the state's casino business is leveling off after six years of growth.
The state's 11 casinos generated $2.43 billion in gross slots revenue during the fiscal year that came to a close Sunday, down nearly 2 percent from the $2.48 billion generated the year before, according to Pennsylvania Gaming Control Board figures released this week. The annual slots decline marked the first such decrease since the state's first casino opened in November 2006. . . . Last year, nine of the 10 casinos open for all of both fiscal years reported slots declines as growth slowed. Sands Casino Resort Bethlehem was the only one to post a yearly gain, with gross slots revenue up 1.7 percent to $290.9 million from the year before. Valley Forge Casino Resort outside Philadelphia reported $55.9 million in gross slots revenue over the past year, up from $11.8 million the year before, but it opened in March 2012, so figures for the previous fiscal year were only for three months.
Not sure that I would call a 2% decline "rather quickly" or even a big deal. There was bound to be some leveling off as having a casino nearby became "normal" and OH got their own casinos.
Now the interesting phase comes in, do PA Casinos build a more complete experience or do they go the way of AC?
