Thread Rating:

100xOdds
100xOdds
Joined: Feb 5, 2012
  • Threads: 539
  • Posts: 3233
July 6th, 2021 at 5:59:23 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg


Loss "concessions" - they are the new kid on the block with an attitude so I wasn't able to negotiate as good a deal at RW as I have in place elsewhere. Hasn't been an issue yet anyway as I haven't lost at RW.

why have a rebate on the actual loss?
why not negotiate a rebate on theoretical loss?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
  • Threads: 112
  • Posts: 8086
July 7th, 2021 at 10:42:59 AM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

why have a rebate on the actual loss?
why not negotiate a rebate on theoretical loss?



Thatís a great question. Of course you get Ďregularí comps based on some percentage of theoretical loss, but I find it hard to imagine the casino handing you actual cash after you just won. I could be wrongÖ.
MDawg
MDawg
Joined: Sep 27, 2018
  • Threads: 26
  • Posts: 3091
July 7th, 2021 at 11:02:00 AM permalink
I assumed that 100xOdds was just making a joke.

But come to think of it, there is a way, and I get it sometimes. Promotional chips. I used to get those more rarely but both this trip and the last one, I have been receiving thousands of dollars of these regularly. You get those based on either theo loss or actual loss. Also, some casinos let you order goods online (albeit at inflated prices) based on play, and in those situations you get a lot more "points" "casino dollars" whatever they call them depending on which casino you play at, based on play than loss.

However, no, there is no actual cash rebate concession against theoretical loss, only against actual.

Just for the record, comps against actual loss are in the range of 10-15%, typically 15%, rarely if ever higher than 20%. Comps against theoretical loss are in the range of 25 - 35%, much higher. Which is why a winning player might get more comps than a losing one, depending on the average bet and number of hours played.
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
100xOdds
100xOdds
Joined: Feb 5, 2012
  • Threads: 539
  • Posts: 3233
July 7th, 2021 at 1:35:49 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg

I assumed that 100xOdds was just making a joke.

But come to think of it, there is a way, and I get it sometimes. Promotional chips. I used to get those more rarely but both this trip and the last one, I have been receiving thousands of dollars of these regularly. You get those based on either theo loss or actual loss. Also, some casinos let you order goods online (albeit at inflated prices) based on play, and in those situations you get a lot more "points" "casino dollars" whatever they call them depending on which casino you play at, based on play than loss.

However, no, there is no actual cash rebate concession against theoretical loss, only against actual.

Just for the record, comps against actual loss are in the range of 10-15%, typically 15%, rarely if ever higher than 20%. Comps against theoretical loss are in the range of 25 - 35%, much higher. Which is why a winning player might get more comps than a losing one, depending on the average bet and number of hours played.

A) hm.. so the high roller cant get anything extra on his theo loss?
He gets the same standard theo loss comp formula that everyone else gets?


B) Many years ago, i read a story of a whale that was offered either a 20% rebate on his actual losses or 10% rebate on theo. (i guess on top of the normal theo that everyone else gets.)

he took the 10% theo and made out like a bandit by just playing basic strategy blackjack.

i tried to google that story but stopped at this article by Eliot Jacobson, Ph.D (I think he's a member in this forum?):
https://www.cdcgamingreports.com/commentaries/title-2-the-failure-of-loss-rebate-programs-for-high-rollers/

He talks about a loss rebate on ďnon-negotiableĒ (NN) chips.
- High roller buys in and wagers with NN chips.
- When he wins, he gets paid in regular chips (ie: negotiable chips).
- When he loses, the casino takes the NN chip.
- When he's out of NN chips, the casino rebates him x% of the NN chips he lost, regardless of how much he won.

instead of playing x hrs to before he can get the loss rebate, he has to play through his NN chips.
i think playing through NN chips seem like a better deal for the whale?
Last edited by: 100xOdds on Jul 7, 2021
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
MDawg
MDawg
Joined: Sep 27, 2018
  • Threads: 26
  • Posts: 3091
July 7th, 2021 at 2:52:45 PM permalink
Never heard of a cash rebate against a theoretical loss. It wouldn't even occur to me to ask for that, I assume such a request would be met with stunned silence.

In theory I suppose getting some cash back against theoretical loss versus using them for comps, might work, but you'd have to figure that the actual dollar value of the comps is pretty low for the casino versus cash.

As far as promotional chips the ones I have been getting lately have been "play 'til you lose" ones. All promotional chips are non-negotiable but some are bet once, and some are play 'til you lose.

Anything about which I post I have personal experience. Theory - I'll leave that to others, but, if I hear a theory that makes sense and I could utilize it, why not, but I don't see any current Vegas casino rebating cash against theoretical loss.
Last edited by: MDawg on Jul 7, 2021
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
MDawg
MDawg
Joined: Sep 27, 2018
  • Threads: 26
  • Posts: 3091
July 7th, 2021 at 2:59:30 PM permalink
By the way, the story on these Rolls: turns out they belong to a player. I met the player, heard the story, and confirmed it.

They were all shipped in from out of state. He is not a local.

WHY - and what the player gets out of having his collection displayed at RW, I don't know yet.


I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
  • Threads: 111
  • Posts: 3862
July 7th, 2021 at 8:16:26 PM permalink
I received a reply from the PR department at Resorts World about how RFID chips are used.

If necessary I will forward the email to the Wizard if there's any doubt about its authenticity.

Here's what it said:

Hi Alan,

Per our VP of Casino Operations Rick Hutchins:

We are currently using them for accurate player ratings at the tables as well as verifying in the trays and at cashier during redemptions. We have the ability to track to the player, but have not chosen to use that option at this time.

Public Relations Department
PR@rwlasvegas.com
unJon
unJon
Joined: Jul 1, 2018
  • Threads: 14
  • Posts: 2844
July 7th, 2021 at 8:29:54 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

I received a reply from the PR department at Resorts World about how RFID chips are used.

If necessary I will forward the email to the Wizard if there's any doubt about its authenticity.

Here's what it said:

Hi Alan,

Per our VP of Casino Operations Rick Hutchins:

We are currently using them for accurate player ratings at the tables as well as verifying in the trays and at cashier during redemptions. We have the ability to track to the player, but have not chosen to use that option at this time.

Public Relations Department
PR@rwlasvegas.com



Whatís your conclusion? That the pit bosses didnít understand what part of the RFID tracking the casino has enabled?
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
  • Threads: 111
  • Posts: 3862
July 7th, 2021 at 8:41:12 PM permalink
Quote: unJon

Whatís your conclusion? That the pit bosses didnít understand what part of the RFID tracking the casino has enabled?



I draw no conclusions other than what I originally posted.

If the casino must track each and every RFID chip and assign it to players or the bank after each and every bet it would be a nightmare.

We all have played table games. Imagine the slowdown if chips had to be scanned each and every time they were collected or paid out by the dealers.
coachbelly
coachbelly
Joined: Oct 21, 2013
  • Threads: 1
  • Posts: 1043
July 7th, 2021 at 8:49:27 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Imagine the slowdown if chips had to be scanned each and every time they were collected or paid out by the dealers.



Are you assuming that the chips must be scanned individually?

Could they be automatically scanned as part of a stack,
whether in the dealer's rack or on the player's betting spot?

  • Jump to: