A 2nd NY AP move

This one is dead for about a year now. I was waiting to see if it would restart but nope, not gonna happen.

I made so much money off this move but I won't go into how much. There were operational costs of course. But the dough was rolling in.

The first NY AP move involved E-games specifically Craps. This second move involved slots.

I had three major operations going at three different NY Racinos. All dead now. SMH!

First I will discuss the move itself.

Secondly how it differed for each of the three locations

And finally how they each died (and all in the same year) an ignominious death.

As this is a long post, you can stop at each of the three parts and come back later or just read it all at once. I hope you find it compelling.

Unlike certain other threads which are clear fiction on this forum, this one I attest is a true accounting

PART ONE: THE NY AP MOVE

Because of racinos being controlled by NYS lottery, the Freeplay comes on vouchers printed at kiosks. There is no download of Freeplay into slots.

The expiration dates were for some reason not the same day although it was apparently chosen by the casinos themselves as each of the three operations had different expirations.

These were generous expirations ranging from one week to two months.

The vouchers also had very little oversight into the metadata. I.E. no one was looking to see who's Freeplay was being used on who's card

The move was simply this.

Armed with dozens of "Freeplay Active" cards, voucher pullers would go through and print the vouchers. Depending on expiration dates, they would deliver the weeks/month of vouchers to me just shy of their expiration

The vouchers would be divvied up to equal the coin-in required to generate more offers on new cards

Attack the slots and achieve necessary coin-in using freeplay. Generally the Freeplay might not equal full coin-in but the final coin-in necessary would just be some additional play-through requirements using the very same cash won from the Freeplay.

For example if there was a $12,500 coin-in required for a certain level of offers, my people would play on a card armed with$10,000 in freeplay vouchers culled from a bunch of different players cards.

Walking in with $10,000 freeplay, leaving with $8,000 cash (and another player's card all setup for the cycle to continue)

Welcome my friends to the Freeplay that never ends.

Resorts World casino in Aqueduct, Yonkers Empire casino and Monticello casino were my primary targets which I hit for years.

And then came 2019 followed by 2020. Two tumultuous years. It's a testament to how well I did beforehand that I have kept the sinking ship afloat as one by one each operation came crashing down.

PART TWO: INDIVIDUAL OPERATIONS.

1) RESORTS WORLD

Here the vouchers expired every two weeks but in a mass accumulated fashion which is probably not the best description.

Vouchers printed on the first of the month expired on/about the 15th. Once you knew the set expiration of the vouchers printed on the first you knew they all were going to expire now on the 15th. Vouchers printed on the 3rd, 4th, of the month all the way to the vouchers printed on the 15th would all expire on the 15th.

So between two weeks and same day depending on day printed

We had hook up points on expiration days to exchange vouchers and get the freeplay rolling on new cards.

2) MONTICELLO CASINO

All vouchers expired at end of the week on a Sunday. The Freeplay wasn't as generous and the expiration was shorter so we had many more cards for this operation such that the coin-in requirements could be met from each weeks total freeplay.

However, there were other aspects that made MONTICELLO so lucrative.

1) Unlike Resorts World, they never recognized the necessity of linking the kiosks to the ADT. I didn't need a large number of new people but could keep the same cards recycled.

2) There was only one bank of kiosks to print vouchers right at the main entrance where security had a booth. We printed out thousands of vouchers over the years from dozens of cards without a peep from surveillance or security. I mean if you wanted to measure the "heat" in Monticello I would rate it somewhere near the North Pole.

3) YONKERS EMPIRE CASINO

This baby was my pride and joy.

Early on they shut down operations by making people have to show ID to get freeplay vouchers when they realized multi-carding was going on.

This was too unwieldy. Players were spending two hours in line for $10 freeplay. They finally made it thus.

$100+ Freeplay required ID. Amounts lower could be printed at kiosks.

The Freeplay here expired in the most generous expiration of the last day of the successive month.

Ex. All vouchers printed in September would expire on October 31st.

Man, I can't even explain how lucrative that was. Just try to imagine.

But if you are thinking I made sure to keep vouchers below $100 so I could print at kiosks, you would be wrong. I wanted the gusto!

I went for the highest vouchers I could get. $200 freeplay which required ID. I had locals whose job was to go, show their ID, collect their Freeplay and hand it to me at the end of the month.

My expenses were higher as I had to pay people to do their own individual pickups but I made up for it in volume. I had about two dozen workers at the height of the operation.

Oh and before I forget, Empire Casino also failed to link the kiosks to ADT. So it was the same two dozen people going year round to collect their offers.

If you don't fully understand the high I got off this operation, let me be clear. Everyone was using their own player's card to pickup their own offers. No one was violating any rules of handing their cards to someone else for their offers. And they were showing ID to do it. All official within the casino printed rules

And I only had to show up a few times to maintain cards offers since everyone else was picking up their own vouchers.

I hoped Yonkers, of all the places would last forever but alas, along came 2019. Not a good year!

PART THREE - OPERATIONS END!

1) MONTICELLO CASINO

2019 started off with a big robbery of my apartment. I wrote about it in my AP NIGHTMARE thread.

If that was like striking an iceberg, there was no way my Titanic operation was going to sink from the robbery alone.

But then just like one by one, the tanks blew on the Titanic, I watched as my operations sunk under the ocean.

January 2019 - my AP NIGHTMARE!

February 2019. Just one month after the robbery, the owners of the Monticello Casino announced they were closing to help drive business to their nearby Catskills resort.

This was in clear violation of their contract with the Monticello racetrack owners and horse operation but they apparently felt emboldened enough not to care. What was the state going to do about it anyway?

They gave two months notice to customers but one week notice that all future freeplay offers would now be honored at the Catskills location (where my NY AP move didn't work as offers needed to be downloaded).

Nothing to be done about it. Crash and burn!

2) YONKERS EMPIRE CASINO

Honestly I saw this one coming so my losses were a bit mitigated. All my pickup people collecting their own vouchers were warned in advance to expect a retaliation and funny not one believed me. After all they were all showing their own ID to pickup what was sent to them in the mail under their own names. Why would a casino renege on promises. Oh, how innocent they were.

2018 came the announcement that Empire Casino was being purchased by MGM. My heart sank! Still you hope for the best.

The purchase went through in February of 2019 (while MONTICELLO was closing it's doors upstate). It only took one month for the MGM executives to recognize what was happening (I truly wish I could have witnessed their horrified faces when they examined the data. My imagination will have to suffice)

March 23rd, 2019, all my people, one by one showed up and were told their offers were cancelled and they were under investigation for fraud!

(The irony of accusing players who used their own cards of fraud, lol. Now it's fraud to use your own player's card to pickup offers? Casino Management told my people the police had been called in. Of course no charges were ever filed because no fraud was committed.)

Another crash and burn! Three months in 2019 and I had suffered three consecutive financial blows.

But Resorts World was still going strong.

3) RESORTS WORLD

The only thorn in my side at Resorts World was a damn employee stealing my Freeplay. Periodically, a few pins would suddenly not work.

I would have to send down my people to fix the pin and always that days offers would be gone!

I knew from past experience what that meant. A rogue employee was changing the pins so he could access my Freeplay. Once the pin was fixed he was effectively stopped but if he had already grabbed that days offers I was out of luck.

My people couldn't complain because security would monitor the card and surveillance would see my people picking up offers as well. Essentially, I would wind up flagging my own people if we complained about any missing offers.

Then in April a strange thing happened. Three of my cards were flagged. I know because Resorts World code for a surveillance flag is right on the card when you insert into the slot. (They don't tell you the meaning of the code but I hit them so many years I just know).

"Out of Bounds" in case you are wondering btw. If you insert a Player card into a slot at Resorts World and get the message "Out of Bounds" your card has been flagged.

The flag becomes active once the player approaches the customer service desk to complain. I knew that too so my voucher pullers were safe from surveillance as the surveillance hadn't started upon inserting the card into the slot machine.

I sent in the three players to question what was going on. I knew I would be unable to ever use their cards again (they would activate the surveillance flag when they approached customer service) but I needed answers to what was happening. They were each notified of "an internal incident" that involved their cards on a specific date I knew none of my people were even in the Casino. Security wanted to verify their identities and addresses.

And I knew from that what had happened. This damned rogue employee had been caught printing out my stolen offers. Seeing them so high, Casino security assumed the accounts were fake and the Freeplay was some type of insider upload.

Once they verified these were real players, they naturally wanted to know how the offers were obtained. Too much coincidence they all had similar play-through.

Well, it only took a month more for them to figure it out. They made it impossible to earn offers from freeplay and even made it incredibly difficult to get offers any other way (at least not in an advantageous way).

Just another crash and burn!

Within five months, four major financial blows. Tank after tank blown and the ship was sinking.

AFTERMATH

Those operations are dead.

Monticello is closed.

Resorts World don't you dare use freeplay for offers. You won't even get a calendar in the mail.

Empire, they linked the kiosks and put other safety protocols in place making it a negative expectation to hunt for comps

And me? I spent much of the remainder of 2019 setting up operations in other locales, moving around my people as needed. I obviously can't talk about those here.

Everything was ready to go full steam in March of 2020.

I joked about saving the Titanic to my people. And then Covid hit and all my operations shut down..

It felt like saving the Titanic from the Iceberg only to be struck amidships by the Lusitania.

Anyway it's worked out in the long run.

But the NY AP move that did me so well is history!

I am shocked that any casinos count free play as coin in towards offers. They clearly know it is freeplay as the machine accounts for it seperately in the meters.

Quote: darkoz

This damned rogue employee had been caught printing out my stolen offers.

Wait a minute.

You mean to tell me...

that the money we're robbing

is being robbed?


Huh?

Quote: DRich

I am shocked that any casinos count free play as coin in towards offers. They clearly know it is freeplay as the machine accounts for it seperately in the meters.

There are a few casinos I know of where Free Play earns points, but there wouldn't be any way to attribute the free play coin-in from several different cards to be considered free play for just one card because you load the offers directly to the machine. It sounds like the vouchers are what made that possible...free play was just counted as coin-in and the machine had no way of knowing exactly what the source of the free play was.

Quote: Mission146

There are a few casinos I know of where Free Play earns points, but there wouldn't be any way to attribute the free play coin-in from several different cards to be considered free play for just one card because you load the offers directly to the machine. It sounds like the vouchers are what made that possible...free play was just counted as coin-in and the machine had no way of knowing exactly what the source of the free play was.

If the vouchers are cashable without playing I would agree it would earn points. Most systems will not let you cash out those vouchers until they are played through once, hence the games knows it is free play.

Quote: DRich

If the vouchers are cashable without playing I would agree it would earn points. Most systems will not let you cash out those vouchers until they are played through once, hence the games knows it is free play.

This was indeed a unique situation specific to NY.

The Freeplay was never generated by the casinos in question. All offers were (and still are) generated by NYS lottery.

For example let's say you had a $200 voucher that malfunctioned. When you took it to customer service they would replace it with twenty $10 vouchers because those were discretionary freeplay amounts they were allowed to hand out

They would apologize and actually explain they have no access to generation of offers which all come from the state.

You most definitely earned points as well as coin-in on the freeplay in NY (although again, they now have means to avoid the play). And yes, the Freeplay was not cashable without playthrough

Clearly they were able to see the difference between freeplay and cash as it eventually led to the Resorts World shutdown but with the weird multi-location setup for monitoring offers, it apparently flew under the radar.

Quote: DRich

If the vouchers are cashable without playing I would agree it would earn points. Most systems will not let you cash out those vouchers until they are played through once, hence the games knows it is free play.

I think it knows that it is Free Play, but it doesn't know where the Free Play itself came from. Essentially, I think Darkoz is saying that you could use the free play (which earns points) from several vouchers belonging to several players and make it look like coin-in/points attributable to only one player.

Quote: Mission146

I think it knows that it is Free Play, but it doesn't know where the Free Play itself came from. Essentially, I think Darkoz is saying that you could use the free play (which earns points) from several vouchers belonging to several players and make it look like coin-in/points attributable to only one player.

Yes, to be clear here is an example.

Betsy, John, Derrick, Maisy, and Albert all get $200 freeplay 3 times a week for the month.

Collect all those and you have $1000 per day/ $3000 per week, $12,000 per month in freeplay.

Vouchers expire at end of following month so save them all up and walk in to play Them ($12,000) same day.

Use a new player's card (Donald) to earn points and offers for two months later using the $12,000 freeplay from Betsy, John, Derrick, Maisy and Albert.

Donald's offers when they kick in didn't cost you anything because they came from the other five players offers.

There was significantly enough freeplay that the offers generated more equivalent offers in this manner.

It was unique to NY most definitely

In summary, was the AP move counting free play as coin in? And using it for a new player? So to generate free play for the existing players you would still need to play negative EV games, but for a new player, you would not need to use any new money?

Quote: SOOPOO

In summary, was the AP move counting free play as coin in? And using it for a new player? So to generate free play for the existing players you would still need to play negative EV games, but for a new player, you would not need to use any new money?

Correct

The initial investment was out of pocket years ago.

The Freeplay from the existing players financed the future offers from new players.

The current offers didn't last forever at Resorts World. Only two months. But when those offers ended the new cards kicked in and those new cards had freeplay that would be collected and used to generate offers on yet a third batch of cards

The process went for a number of years ad infinitum.

At Yonkers and Monticello the freeplay could be kept going all year on the same cards since printing of vouchers had no ADT penalties.

In that case I had a set staggered schedule of when to play such that the Freeplay from each month added up to enough to finance the continuation of offers for the next group.

If you choose to answer.... how many people work ‘for’ you as opposed to work ‘with’ you?

Once you identify such an opportunity it would seem that you would want as many of both as possible!

If during the running through of free play a taxable event occurred, how do you handle it?

I guess somebody wasn't getting enough attention. (-;

Quote: SOOPOO

If you choose to answer.... how many people work ‘for’ you as opposed to work ‘with’ you?

Once you identify such an opportunity it would seem that you would want as many of both as possible!

If during the running through of free play a taxable event occurred, how do you handle it?

Over the years the numbers have varied and people have been given different ranks. Not easily answered.

As for taxable events during the Freeplay in NYS, all jackpot vouchers come on a "Limited Voucher" good for one year.

So if someone won a Jackpot for $1500 they would just put the "Limited Voucher" in their pocket and hand it to me later. I would cash it out myself.

The Jackpot doesn't require an attendant unless over $2000. Even then, no ID is asked and no verification of players cards is even done. They just key the machine and hand you your jackpot voucher

I suppose one will ask if my people ever pocketed a Jackpot and didn't tell me. I can't say it didn't happen but to get to the level of gambling for me I trust you implicitly. Until proven otherwise I make no assumptions.

Over time an expected general return becomes obvious. Any person serially stealing would become suspicious to me from the lower than average returns

Quote: AxelWolf

I guess somebody wasn't getting enough attention. (-;

I got tired of forty-five pages of wager baiting between you and MDawg

Quote: darkoz

Correct
At Yonkers and Monticello the freeplay could be kept going all year on the same cards since printing of vouchers had no ADT penalties.
group.

I immediately thought of the casinos twenty years ago that used average trip theo (ATT) instead of ADT. You could keep a trip going for six days and collect free play each day. Your ATT was the same as another player who played a single day with the same theo that you generated over six days. Locals would show up, collect their free play, and play 20 hands of video poker and walk out. Apparently, you needed to earn a small amount of theo per day to prevent trip breaking. The trip automatically broke after a certain number of days. Quite the gravy train for locals, but I lived far away from any casino at the time.

Quote: Mental

I immediately thought of the casinos twenty years ago that used average trip theo (ATT) instead of ADT. You could keep a trip going for six days and collect free play each day. Your ATT was the same as another player who played a single day with the same theo that you generated over six days. Locals would show up, collect their free play, and play 20 hands of video poker and walk out. Apparently, you needed to earn a small amount of theo per day to prevent trip breaking. The trip automatically broke after a certain number of days. Quite the gravy train for locals, but I lived far away from any casino at the time.

The systems I worked on generally required two consecutive days without play to end a trip.

Quote: darkoz

I got tired of forty-five pages of wager baiting between you and MDawg

Ahh yes, I hear you much prefer other types of baiting between a couple of guys. (-:

Quote: AxelWolf

Ahh yes, I hear you much prefer other types of baiting between a couple of guys. (-:

Was that really necessary?

Quote: darkoz

Was that really necessary?

Oh, come on! I was just messing with you. I just couldn't resist. You walked right into that one.

Quote: AxelWolf

Ahh yes, I hear you much prefer other types of baiting between a couple of guys. (-:

I did not know that.

Quote: MDawg

I did not know that.

Technically neither did I.

.......................

how about this AP move for cover purposes -
hyper-realistic masks

The original NY AP move wasn’t a New York play at all and I would argue hardly even an AP move. Your entire trick show is based on getting homeless people to sign up for players cards, get the pin, run a play, and collect the freeplay with no intention of giving the casino any additional play. Might be an AP move but I’d give more respect to an 8 deck card counter any day.

These team plays are ruining it for people like me who play only on their own cards. Even worse, these people that you partner with most likely innocently sign up for cards and then their accounts are ruined for any future play that they may want to do. I highly doubt you could make $100k a year playing on your own card.

Quote: Sandybestdog

The original NY AP move wasn’t a New York play at all and I would argue hardly even an AP move. Your entire trick show is based on getting homeless people to sign up for players cards, get the pin, run a play, and collect the freeplay with no intention of giving the casino any additional play. Might be an AP move but I’d give more respect to an 8 deck card counter any day.

These team plays are ruining it for people like me who play only on their own cards. Even worse, these people that you partner with most likely innocently sign up for cards and then their accounts are ruined for any future play that they may want to do. I highly doubt you could make $100k a year playing on your own card.

Sandy,

In my experience the casinos won't shut off cards with sufficient play. And they won't cut offers because of my actions as they still need to get customers in the door. Usually they take actions that a straight up player like yourself would not notice.

As for the homeless idea. You are not the first poster to say I sign up homeless people. I don't know where this came from except the erroneous concept that regular people won't sign up for a players card and hand it over so you assume these are both homeless and innocent patrons

Nothing could be further from the truth!!!

Number one, the plays require coin-in as you noted so I am risking my own cash. Any person I use needs to be available if a card is lost (stolen and yep it did happen in January of 2019) or just plain malfunctioned.

Homeless people by the way very often have no ID or expired ID. Remember I was homeless myself for a number of years and am familiar with that community and their setbacks so signing up significant amounts of homeless people isn't even a possibility!

As for innocent, come on! I prefer to use the same people over and over. They get sent to multiple Casinos across five states including airfare if necessary. And they use their real addresses and hand me their mail when they get the offers. Many times they are excited about using the hotels and free buffet.

Gimme a break. But most importantly, understand correctly what it is I actually do!

This is about adding an extra bit to a play that would have worked with or without that bonus. You only save the vig on the normal freeplay play through. In the process of doing the play, you make things significantly more complicated and more likely to be discovered. I would give a big thumbs down strategically to this method.

Quote: randomperson

This is about adding an extra bit to a play that would have worked with or without that bonus. You only save the vig on the normal freeplay play through. In the process of doing the play, you make things significantly more complicated and more likely to be discovered. I would give a big thumbs down strategically to this method.

When it's $10,000 in freeplay that's a lot of vig saved.

Aside from putting freeplay in the machines instead of cash it wasn't all that different. Certainly not more complicated!

Quote: Sandybestdog

The original NY AP move wasn’t a New York play at all and I would argue hardly even an AP move. Your entire trick show is based on getting homeless people to sign up for players cards, get the pin, run a play, and collect the freeplay with no intention of giving the casino any additional play. Might be an AP move but I’d give more respect to an 8 deck card counter any day.

These team plays are ruining it for people like me who play only on their own cards. Even worse, these people that you partner with most likely innocently sign up for cards and then their accounts are ruined for any future play that they may want to do. I highly doubt you could make $100k a year playing on your own card.

I think he posted at some point that his droves of team players come from his significant other's side of the family. That he's never mentioned that they come from his side of the family, indicates perhaps that the compensation he offers is insufficient to coax a certain group of people - whether socioeconomically different, or more gainfully employed with less time on their hands - to work for him.

You are probably right that whatever he is doing is basic. I've called it "low level" in the past. Another intrinsic proof that each individual player on his team isn't generating all that much, is that anyone with any sense who was raking in big money wouldn't turn it all over to the boss - he'd just start doing it for himself. But, at the end of the day - so what? if it's basic or low level. If what he's doing is making money and he's able to convince people to do it for him, more power to him.

I do believe based on the legal and casino security difficulties he has described that there was a time when he or his crew was using player cards or cashing out slips that did not belong to them. Perhaps now that has changed.

At the moment I can't see his posts so if he has a response he may direct it to you Sandybestdog.

Quote: MDawg

I think he posted at some point that his droves of team players come from his significant other's side of the family. That he's never mentioned that they come from his side of the family, indicates perhaps that the compensation he offers is insufficient to coax a certain group of people - whether socioeconomically different, or more gainfully employed with less time on their hands - to work for him.

You are probably right that whatever he is doing is basic. I've called it "low level" in the past. Another intrinsic proof that each individual player on his team isn't generating all that much, is that anyone with any sense who was raking in big money wouldn't turn it all over to the boss - he'd just start doing it for himself. But, at the end of the day - so what? if it's basic or low level. If what he's doing is making money and he's able to convince people to do it for him, more power to him.

I do believe based on the legal and casino security difficulties he has described that there was a time when he or his crew was using player cards or cashing out slips that did not belong to them. Perhaps now that has changed.

At the moment I can't see his posts so if he has a response he may direct it to you Sandybestdog.

I never realized how 100% wrong about facts someone could be until reading the above post, lol!

Quote: darkoz

When it's $10,000 in freeplay that's a lot of vig saved.

Aside from putting freeplay in the machines instead of cash it wasn't all that different. Certainly not more complicated!

In order to know it works, you have to try it before not knowing whether it works, with the downside being the potential premature termination of the play.

Quote: MDawg

I've called it "low level" in the past.

If his stuff is "low level", that must make your stuff "no level".

Quote: randomperson

In order to know it works, you have to try it before not knowing whether it works, with the downside being the potential premature termination of the play.

Yes, this is probably true of most things in life.

I have spent anywhere from three months to two years doing pre-evaluations of my AP moves.

When I go whole hog with an operation it's because I already know it works.

Sometimes a sudden change can cause an operation to go south. But that is true of most high level AP

Quote: darkoz

Yes, this is probably true of most things in life.

I have spent anywhere from three months to two years doing pre-evaluations of my AP moves.

When I go whole hog with an operation it's because I already know it works.

Sometimes a sudden change can cause an operation to go south. But that is true of most high level AP

It’s true of many money making things.... I bought Cinemark stock last February..... It was poised to skyrocket... How did that work out for me?

I am always fascinated when I find out one of these AP moves. Keep on posting them!

Quote: SOOPOO

It’s true of many money making things.... I bought Cinemark stock last February..... It was poised to skyrocket... How did that work out for me?

I am always fascinated when I find out one of these AP moves. Keep on posting them!

im just waiting for the book so he can take my money - and im seriously not joking - which i already think its a joke on here but i would absolutely throw money at this book even if its a jumbled mess of stories written in 5 year old crayon in a binder that had coffee dropped on most of the pages.

Quote: heatmap

im just waiting for the book so he can take my money - and im seriously not joking - which i already think its a joke on here but i would absolutely throw money at this book even if its a jumbled mess of stories written in 5 year old crayon in a binder that had coffee dropped on most of the pages.

Wow

A heartfelt thank you. Makes my posting feel worth it.

Thanks again

Quote: lilredrooster

.......................

how about this AP move for cover purposes -
hyper-realistic masks

I could be wrong, but I doubt that they would pass a forehead temperature checkpoint.....

Quote: Gandler

Quote: lilredrooster

.......................

how about this AP move for cover purposes -
hyper-realistic masks

I could be wrong, but I doubt that they would pass a forehead temperature checkpoint.....

Hmmm, that's an interesting thought.

They probably would come in colder, though. Certainly not warmer.

They don't change body temperature so I'm inclined to think it won't make a difference

Quote: darkoz

Wow

A heartfelt thank you. Makes my posting feel worth it.

Thanks again

so eta on your book?

Quote: 100xOdds

so eta on your book?

The book has been finished for awhile.

I just never started to shop it around.

I would not call it abandoned but in hibernation.

Perhaps these posts will get me back on track

Quote: darkoz

The book has been finished for awhile.

I just never started to shop it around.

I would not call it abandoned but in hibernation.

Perhaps these posts will get me back on track

my girlfriend is a psycho when it comes to grammar. need proof reading lol? come to think of it she hates my infatuation with gambling she would never read it. dangit i almost got a preview there in my imagination.

Quote: lilredrooster

.......................

how about this AP move for cover purposes -
hyper-realistic masks

Is that Christopher Mitchell on the right?

Quote: heatmap

my girlfriend is a psycho when it comes to grammar. need proof reading lol? come to think of it she hates my infatuation with gambling she would never read it. dangit i almost got a preview there in my imagination.

My mother was a proofreader for a publishing company and sadly my grammar is still terrible.

Quote: DRich

My mother was a proofreader for a publishing company and sadly my grammar is still terrible.

Maybe your grandma would have been better if your mother didn't waste all that time reading.

Quote: billryan

Maybe your grandma would have been better if your mother didn't waste all that time reading.

I can’t tell if that was intentional.

Quote: DRich

My mother was a proofreader for a publishing company and sadly my grammar is still terrible.

i have a feeling that your grammar on average - is alot better than mine - who takes his main grammar from a cartoon show

i shit you not i have an odd need to speak exactly like this in real life and my girlfriend hates it

Quote: darkoz

This one is dead for about a year now. I was waiting to see if it would restart but nope, not gonna happen.

I made so much money off this move but I won't go into how much. There were operational costs of course. But the dough was rolling in.

The first NY AP move involved E-games specifically Craps. This second move involved slots.

I had three major operations going at three different NY Racinos. All dead now. SMH!

First I will discuss the move itself.

Secondly how it differed for each of the three locations

And finally how they each died (and all in the same year) an ignominious death.

As this is a long post, you can stop at each of the three parts and come back later or just read it all at once. I hope you find it compelling.

Unlike certain other threads which are clear fiction on this forum, this one I attest is a true accounting

PART ONE: THE NY AP MOVE

Because of racinos being controlled by NYS lottery, the Freeplay comes on vouchers printed at kiosks. There is no download of Freeplay into slots.

The expiration dates were for some reason not the same day although it was apparently chosen by the casinos themselves as each of the three operations had different expirations.

These were generous expirations ranging from one week to two months.

The vouchers also had very little oversight into the metadata. I.E. no one was looking to see who's Freeplay was being used on who's card

The move was simply this.

Armed with dozens of "Freeplay Active" cards, voucher pullers would go through and print the vouchers. Depending on expiration dates, they would deliver the weeks/month of vouchers to me just shy of their expiration

The vouchers would be divvied up to equal the coin-in required to generate more offers on new cards

Attack the slots and achieve necessary coin-in using freeplay. Generally the Freeplay might not equal full coin-in but the final coin-in necessary would just be some additional play-through requirements using the very same cash won from the Freeplay.

For example if there was a $12,500 coin-in required for a certain level of offers, my people would play on a card armed with$10,000 in freeplay vouchers culled from a bunch of different players cards.

Walking in with $10,000 freeplay, leaving with $8,000 cash (and another player's card all setup for the cycle to continue)

Welcome my friends to the Freeplay that never ends.

Resorts World casino in Aqueduct, Yonkers Empire casino and Monticello casino were my primary targets which I hit for years.

And then came 2019 followed by 2020. Two tumultuous years. It's a testament to how well I did beforehand that I have kept the sinking ship afloat as one by one each operation came crashing down.

PART TWO: INDIVIDUAL OPERATIONS.

1) RESORTS WORLD

Here the vouchers expired every two weeks but in a mass accumulated fashion which is probably not the best description.

Vouchers printed on the first of the month expired on/about the 15th. Once you knew the set expiration of the vouchers printed on the first you knew they all were going to expire now on the 15th. Vouchers printed on the 3rd, 4th, of the month all the way to the vouchers printed on the 15th would all expire on the 15th.

So between two weeks and same day depending on day printed

We had hook up points on expiration days to exchange vouchers and get the freeplay rolling on new cards.

2) MONTICELLO CASINO

All vouchers expired at end of the week on a Sunday. The Freeplay wasn't as generous and the expiration was shorter so we had many more cards for this operation such that the coin-in requirements could be met from each weeks total freeplay.

However, there were other aspects that made MONTICELLO so lucrative.

1) Unlike Resorts World, they never recognized the necessity of linking the kiosks to the ADT. I didn't need a large number of new people but could keep the same cards recycled.

2) There was only one bank of kiosks to print vouchers right at the main entrance where security had a booth. We printed out thousands of vouchers over the years from dozens of cards without a peep from surveillance or security. I mean if you wanted to measure the "heat" in Monticello I would rate it somewhere near the North Pole.

3) YONKERS EMPIRE CASINO

This baby was my pride and joy.

Early on they shut down operations by making people have to show ID to get freeplay vouchers when they realized multi-carding was going on.

This was too unwieldy. Players were spending two hours in line for $10 freeplay. They finally made it thus.

$100+ Freeplay required ID. Amounts lower could be printed at kiosks.

The Freeplay here expired in the most generous expiration of the last day of the successive month.

Ex. All vouchers printed in September would expire on October 31st.

Man, I can't even explain how lucrative that was. Just try to imagine.

But if you are thinking I made sure to keep vouchers below $100 so I could print at kiosks, you would be wrong. I wanted the gusto!

I went for the highest vouchers I could get. $200 freeplay which required ID. I had locals whose job was to go, show their ID, collect their Freeplay and hand it to me at the end of the month.

My expenses were higher as I had to pay people to do their own individual pickups but I made up for it in volume. I had about two dozen workers at the height of the operation.

Oh and before I forget, Empire Casino also failed to link the kiosks to ADT. So it was the same two dozen people going year round to collect their offers.

If you don't fully understand the high I got off this operation, let me be clear. Everyone was using their own player's card to pickup their own offers. No one was violating any rules of handing their cards to someone else for their offers. And they were showing ID to do it. All official within the casino printed rules

And I only had to show up a few times to maintain cards offers since everyone else was picking up their own vouchers.

I hoped Yonkers, of all the places would last forever but alas, along came 2019. Not a good year!

PART THREE - OPERATIONS END!

1) MONTICELLO CASINO

2019 started off with a big robbery of my apartment. I wrote about it in my AP NIGHTMARE thread.

If that was like striking an iceberg, there was no way my Titanic operation was going to sink from the robbery alone.

But then just like one by one, the tanks blew on the Titanic, I watched as my operations sunk under the ocean.

January 2019 - my AP NIGHTMARE!

February 2019. Just one month after the robbery, the owners of the Monticello Casino announced they were closing to help drive business to their nearby Catskills resort.

This was in clear violation of their contract with the Monticello racetrack owners and horse operation but they apparently felt emboldened enough not to care. What was the state going to do about it anyway?

They gave two months notice to customers but one week notice that all future freeplay offers would now be honored at the Catskills location (where my NY AP move didn't work as offers needed to be downloaded).

Nothing to be done about it. Crash and burn!

2) YONKERS EMPIRE CASINO

Honestly I saw this one coming so my losses were a bit mitigated. All my pickup people collecting their own vouchers were warned in advance to expect a retaliation and funny not one believed me. After all they were all showing their own ID to pickup what was sent to them in the mail under their own names. Why would a casino renege on promises. Oh, how innocent they were.

2018 came the announcement that Empire Casino was being purchased by MGM. My heart sank! Still you hope for the best.

The purchase went through in February of 2019 (while MONTICELLO was closing it's doors upstate). It only took one month for the MGM executives to recognize what was happening (I truly wish I could have witnessed their horrified faces when they examined the data. My imagination will have to suffice)

March 23rd, 2019, all my people, one by one showed up and were told their offers were cancelled and they were under investigation for fraud!

(The irony of accusing players who used their own cards of fraud, lol. Now it's fraud to use your own player's card to pickup offers? Casino Management told my people the police had been called in. Of course no charges were ever filed because no fraud was committed.)

Another crash and burn! Three months in 2019 and I had suffered three consecutive financial blows.

But Resorts World was still going strong.

3) RESORTS WORLD

The only thorn in my side at Resorts World was a damn employee stealing my Freeplay. Periodically, a few pins would suddenly not work.

I would have to send down my people to fix the pin and always that days offers would be gone!

I knew from past experience what that meant. A rogue employee was changing the pins so he could access my Freeplay. Once the pin was fixed he was effectively stopped but if he had already grabbed that days offers I was out of luck.

My people couldn't complain because security would monitor the card and surveillance would see my people picking up offers as well. Essentially, I would wind up flagging my own people if we complained about any missing offers.

Then in April a strange thing happened. Three of my cards were flagged. I know because Resorts World code for a surveillance flag is right on the card when you insert into the slot. (They don't tell you the meaning of the code but I hit them so many years I just know).

"Out of Bounds" in case you are wondering btw. If you insert a Player card into a slot at Resorts World and get the message "Out of Bounds" your card has been flagged.

The flag becomes active once the player approaches the customer service desk to complain. I knew that too so my voucher pullers were safe from surveillance as the surveillance hadn't started upon inserting the card into the slot machine.

I sent in the three players to question what was going on. I knew I would be unable to ever use their cards again (they would activate the surveillance flag when they approached customer service) but I needed answers to what was happening. They were each notified of "an internal incident" that involved their cards on a specific date I knew none of my people were even in the Casino. Security wanted to verify their identities and addresses.

And I knew from that what had happened. This damned rogue employee had been caught printing out my stolen offers. Seeing them so high, Casino security assumed the accounts were fake and the Freeplay was some type of insider upload.

Once they verified these were real players, they naturally wanted to know how the offers were obtained. Too much coincidence they all had similar play-through.

Well, it only took a month more for them to figure it out. They made it impossible to earn offers from freeplay and even made it incredibly difficult to get offers any other way (at least not in an advantageous way).

Just another crash and burn!

Within five months, four major financial blows. Tank after tank blown and the ship was sinking.

AFTERMATH

Those operations are dead.

Monticello is closed.

Resorts World don't you dare use freeplay for offers. You won't even get a calendar in the mail.

Empire, they linked the kiosks and put other safety protocols in place making it a negative expectation to hunt for comps

And me? I spent much of the remainder of 2019 setting up operations in other locales, moving around my people as needed. I obviously can't talk about those here.

Everything was ready to go full steam in March of 2020.

I joked about saving the Titanic to my people. And then Covid hit and all my operations shut down..

It felt like saving the Titanic from the Iceberg only to be struck amidships by the Lusitania.

Anyway it's worked out in the long run.

But the NY AP move that did me so well is history!
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Appears to me and in my opinion only and I stress in my opinion only, I am translating everything that you wrote to extreme frustration and possibly hatred of casinos.

I tried to learn from your thread but I don’t see much there that I can personally learn from. On the other hand I might be stupid and put into the imbecile class. So be it.

I like to go into the casino, hit them for a few few hands, smack them a little bit, make money and leave.

Personally I don’t see much of a value in a $7.99 blanket or a pair of pots and pans that you can pick up at the dollar store for less than $10.00.

I also.dont see any value in $7.99 blankets or pots and pans.

Since I didn't mention those in my post about Freeplay I have to assume your entire response is based on your not reading the original post and trying to be insulting instead.

Quote: darkoz

I also.dont see any value in $7.99 blankets or pots and pans.

Since I didn't mention those in my post about Freeplay I have to assume your entire response is based on your not reading the original post and trying to be insulting instead.
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MC only exposes himselelf to people in the know.

Anyone in the know reading his supposed job title can say, "I don't believe you". with great confidence.