Here We Go Again: Unshuffled Baccarat at Golden Nugget AC...
September 5th, 2012 at 9:23:59 AM
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He's just joshing you. Nothing like a heart attack to remind you to keep the weight off and stay away from red meats.
September 5th, 2012 at 9:24:31 AM
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Yup.
Broccoli and jello, and some pasta.
Broccoli and jello, and some pasta.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
September 5th, 2012 at 9:34:02 AM
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I am sure your wife wants you to stick around for a few more years. I never have claimed to understand women. LOL
September 5th, 2012 at 8:29:25 PM
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Quote: PaigowdanWell, I'm not 300 lbs. I'm 5'11" and 190.
Bob's just taking his typical shots at people, because he's that kind of guy.
take a look of my facebook pictures.
I only looked at the front page one, that's about what I would have guessed, except I wouldn't have pegged you for someone with a moustache...
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
September 5th, 2012 at 8:31:30 PM
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Quote: Mission146I only looked at the front page one, that's about what I would have guessed, except I wouldn't have pegged you for someone with a moustache...
Or a soccer player.
Each of us is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.
Preparing for a fight about your bad decision is not as smart as making a good decision.
September 5th, 2012 at 9:08:24 PM
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Quote: FarFromVegasOr a soccer player.
This isn't me.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
September 5th, 2012 at 9:13:03 PM
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Quote: PaigowdanQuote: FarFromVegasOr a soccer player.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 5th, 2012 at 9:15:27 PM
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Quote: PaigowdanQuote: FarFromVegasOr a soccer player.
This isn't me.
I know. I've seen your interview with the Wizard. I also knew you weren't 300 lbs, either.
Each of us is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.
Preparing for a fight about your bad decision is not as smart as making a good decision.
September 5th, 2012 at 9:19:49 PM
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Quote: FarFromVegasOr a soccer player.
[image]Quote: Paigowdan
This isn't me.
I know. I've seen your interview with the Wizard. I also knew you weren't 300 lbs, either.
Then why post wrong pictures of people?
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
September 5th, 2012 at 9:26:22 PM
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Quote: PaigowdanQuote: FarFromVegasOr a soccer player.
[image]
I know. I've seen your interview with the Wizard. I also knew you weren't 300 lbs, either.
Then why post wrong pictures of people?
I was being silly. I was wondering what EvenBob meant about the 300 lbs, so I looked up "Dan Lubin" to see if there were another of the same name, like a big football player. I did find a "futbol" player who was obviously not you, but because someone else mentioned a moustache, I posted that to show that there is at least one other Dan Lubin with a moustache.
Each of us is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.
Preparing for a fight about your bad decision is not as smart as making a good decision.
September 5th, 2012 at 9:30:52 PM
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Quote: FarFromVegas
I was being silly. I was wondering what EvenBob meant about the 300 lbs, .
I said that quite awhile ago because everybody knows
what Dan looks like, his pic has been here and he's in
Mike's video's.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 6th, 2012 at 12:52:09 PM
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September 6, 2012 11:20 AM PrintText
Moderator's Note: Due to the Wizard's copyright rules, the remainder of this post has been deleted.
The entire CBS News article can be found here:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505245_162-57507444/deal-collapses-in-unshuffled-cards-case-in-ac/
Quote: CBS NewsDeal collapses in unshuffled cards case in AC
ATLANTIC CITY, N.J. — A deal to pay gamblers who won more than $1.5 million while playing with unshuffled cards in Atlantic City has collapsed.
Moderator's Note: Due to the Wizard's copyright rules, the remainder of this post has been deleted.
The entire CBS News article can be found here:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505245_162-57507444/deal-collapses-in-unshuffled-cards-case-in-ac/
September 6th, 2012 at 5:08:02 PM
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As I have said before, the players are seeking 3x damage award. GN won't get off by just allowing the players to be able to keep the cash they cashed in and allowing them to cash the remaining chips.
How much do you think the bad press, legal fee etc... is going to cost them in the end.
GN, you screwed up! The players did not cheat. You did not do your duty and stop the game when they won 15 hands, or 20 hands in a row. When the whole table was betting max and winning, GN should have stopped the game. Don't blame the players for your incompentence any more than players should blame the casino for serving alcholol and getting them drunk. Players are not forced to drink so take responsibility for your own action. Enough said.!
How much do you think the bad press, legal fee etc... is going to cost them in the end.
GN, you screwed up! The players did not cheat. You did not do your duty and stop the game when they won 15 hands, or 20 hands in a row. When the whole table was betting max and winning, GN should have stopped the game. Don't blame the players for your incompentence any more than players should blame the casino for serving alcholol and getting them drunk. Players are not forced to drink so take responsibility for your own action. Enough said.!
Edward Snowden is not the criminal, the government is for violating the constitution!
September 6th, 2012 at 6:50:35 PM
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Good on the players for keeping their lawsuits. This isn't the wild west and people have basic rights that the casino violated.
I don't want to play at a casino and have to wonder if their incompetence means any wins might be followed by my room being invaded and multiple hour detainment.
I don't want to play at a casino and have to wonder if their incompetence means any wins might be followed by my room being invaded and multiple hour detainment.
September 6th, 2012 at 7:05:11 PM
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Treble damages are 3 times the amount of damages. Attorney fees may be hard to get as there was not a contract.
The Billionaire owner might settle as he should be smart enough.
You might get one pissed off jury and the players win, or the players might lose.
Going to trial is a gamble.
The way to figure the price on this case is: chance of winning X how much money. I.E. 4.5 million times 80% equals 3.6 million. Numbers might be different.
You have to deduct attorney fees, unless awarded, and the stress of 3 years in Court.
Go Players!!!!!
P.S. Someone on this thread is in touch with a player at that table. If the Casino does not pay the chips as ordered by a Judge, can the players file a complaint with the Gaming Commission???
The Billionaire owner might settle as he should be smart enough.
You might get one pissed off jury and the players win, or the players might lose.
Going to trial is a gamble.
The way to figure the price on this case is: chance of winning X how much money. I.E. 4.5 million times 80% equals 3.6 million. Numbers might be different.
You have to deduct attorney fees, unless awarded, and the stress of 3 years in Court.
Go Players!!!!!
P.S. Someone on this thread is in touch with a player at that table. If the Casino does not pay the chips as ordered by a Judge, can the players file a complaint with the Gaming Commission???
September 6th, 2012 at 10:24:02 PM
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Quote: 98Clubs1000 Pardons if already known, but our local paper just ran the court decision on the OP, and the GN has to release the mega money owed to the Customers. Lawyers kicking and screaming foul, but the GN management just wants to get past this as far as the Customers are concerned.. But Gemaco is a different story, and the lawyer army will go after them for the unshuffled cards.
I think the probability is in favor that the players were in on the scam. I also think it is useless to prosecute them. Gemaco made an error somehow that they have already had to admit. Pursuing the players is bad for business, and Gemaco also has insurance. A reasonable settlement will no doubt be reached. If the investigation uncovers someone at Gemaco who initiated the scam, and he know enough detail, they will still be able to go after the players for criminal charges.
I think it is also reasonable that casino lawyers will advise the casinos to set up their own pre shuffling room. As the article I linked to earlier said, the money is saved in pre shuffling rather than doing it on the floor. It doesn't matter a lot if you do it in house, or if you pay the manufacturer to do it.
September 7th, 2012 at 2:17:41 AM
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What sort of a conspiracy can produce the desired product, track its shipment, track its being received, track its actual placement onto the casino floor on that particular day and at that particular table .... and then guarantee that casino personnel will all stand idly by twirling their thumbs counter-clockwise as the players are permitted to win hand after hand and none of those casino employees stops the game. Man, that is one massive end-to-end conspiracy with control of several different casino departments.
How Automated is the Gemaco process? An in-house card shuffing department might be more vulnerable, not less?
How Automated is the Gemaco process? An in-house card shuffing department might be more vulnerable, not less?
September 7th, 2012 at 7:13:14 AM
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Quote: FleaStiffWhat sort of a conspiracy can produce the desired product, track its shipment, track its being received, track its actual placement onto the casino floor on that particular day and at that particular table .... and then guarantee that casino personnel will all stand idly by twirling their thumbs counter-clockwise as the players are permitted to win hand after hand and none of those casino employees stops the game. Man, that is one massive end-to-end conspiracy with control of several different casino departments.
How Automated is the Gemaco process? An in-house card shuffing department might be more vulnerable, not less?
Have to agree there... just waaaaayyyy too far over the top. Nope, just ain't gonna happen unless Paco thinks it was a GN scam from day 1, even then, there would be a communication trail.
Tangental, but a-pro-po...
Consider upon reception and initialization at the Gaming Table each deck;
1.) Shuffle twice
2.) Break-down as Bottom Top Middle thirds being Left to Right
3.) Stacking as B/T/M
4.) Shuffle once
5. ) Cut
/Tangent
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
September 14th, 2012 at 7:51:06 PM
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A "thought" just came to me...so I'll share it..
Maybe the players keep their "cards" or whatever you call those things they write down the results. Then by chance compared them as they searched for patterns and low and behold, the other guys card from another table was the same! So, that said, they put a group together and went looking for the same pattern they had in a live game and like magic, found it and began raking in the chips. It sounds easy enough to me. It seems impossible they tracked the shipment from printing to the table. Thank you.
Maybe the players keep their "cards" or whatever you call those things they write down the results. Then by chance compared them as they searched for patterns and low and behold, the other guys card from another table was the same! So, that said, they put a group together and went looking for the same pattern they had in a live game and like magic, found it and began raking in the chips. It sounds easy enough to me. It seems impossible they tracked the shipment from printing to the table. Thank you.
September 18th, 2012 at 8:38:45 AM
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Player gave their chips to their lawyer. It will be used as evidence. If the player try to cash the chip, they must sign a waver. CCC will not assist in cashing the chips.
Cards did not come out in a sequence, but rather a pattern, 11 bank wins followed by 11 player win followed by 11 bank win.
Cards did not come out in a sequence, but rather a pattern, 11 bank wins followed by 11 player win followed by 11 bank win.
Edward Snowden is not the criminal, the government is for violating the constitution!
September 18th, 2012 at 9:21:05 AM
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Fascinating.
This could ALL be very well on the shuffling company with no collusion whatsoever. Bad on GN to not re-shuffle a shoe that is killing them, but maybe they were just betting trends. You'd lose a bet here and there, but if they were all just betting previous winner...that's common in Baccarat, is it not?
This could ALL be very well on the shuffling company with no collusion whatsoever. Bad on GN to not re-shuffle a shoe that is killing them, but maybe they were just betting trends. You'd lose a bet here and there, but if they were all just betting previous winner...that's common in Baccarat, is it not?
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
September 18th, 2012 at 3:11:42 PM
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Quote: AceCrAAckersCCC will not assist in cashing the chips.
Is there a source for that assertion?
September 24th, 2012 at 10:50:56 PM
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Latest developments...
The Golden Nugget has been engaging in 'subterfuge' according to the attorneys of the players in the case.
Contacting them directly instead of through their attorneys, trying to get them to sign settlement agreements.
the nugget also filed a request for the judge in the case to reconsider his ruling ,
Which buys them two months of time before they have to decide on wether to appeal.
Source: AC Press 9/21/12
I wonder how much bad publicity will effect their already tanking bottom line.
They f**ked up and should just pay up and be glad it was only 1.5 million.
The matter of the civll suits is seemingly an unavoidable additional expense
they have incurred by illegally detaining and abusing their own customers.
A player from Macau that I have talked to told me that
nobody there can believe that the casino would risk pissing off their Asian clientele,
Asian players in general, (and gamblers everywhere for that matter)
for such a piddling amount of money.
It is not unusual for a single hand of baccarat to have >$1M riding on it...
The Golden Nugget has been engaging in 'subterfuge' according to the attorneys of the players in the case.
Contacting them directly instead of through their attorneys, trying to get them to sign settlement agreements.
the nugget also filed a request for the judge in the case to reconsider his ruling ,
Which buys them two months of time before they have to decide on wether to appeal.
Source: AC Press 9/21/12
I wonder how much bad publicity will effect their already tanking bottom line.
They f**ked up and should just pay up and be glad it was only 1.5 million.
The matter of the civll suits is seemingly an unavoidable additional expense
they have incurred by illegally detaining and abusing their own customers.
A player from Macau that I have talked to told me that
nobody there can believe that the casino would risk pissing off their Asian clientele,
Asian players in general, (and gamblers everywhere for that matter)
for such a piddling amount of money.
It is not unusual for a single hand of baccarat to have >$1M riding on it...
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
September 24th, 2012 at 11:08:01 PM
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Quote: WongBo
A player from Macau that I have talked to told me that
nobody there can believe that the casino would risk pissing off their Asian clientele,
Yet when I tell you the Asian clientele at 4 Winds
was pissed and they boycotted the casino, you made
cracks like 'you think all Asians know each other?'
Yup, I do. In places like Chicago's Chinatown, enough
of them know each other to pass the word about a
boycott.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 24th, 2012 at 11:11:05 PM
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Well Bob, I know I have been tough on you
and no I do not think you are a race hater,
even though you might not be the most politically correct.
I am trying to lighten up a little. I do enjoy most of your posts (non political)
I am not really getting into the race issue which the players in the case are claiming,
I just think no matter who was involved, the casino should pay up,
Plus damages for the shakedown they attempted.
It remains to be seen what effect this has on their ability to draw players.
and no I do not think you are a race hater,
even though you might not be the most politically correct.
I am trying to lighten up a little. I do enjoy most of your posts (non political)
I am not really getting into the race issue which the players in the case are claiming,
I just think no matter who was involved, the casino should pay up,
Plus damages for the shakedown they attempted.
It remains to be seen what effect this has on their ability to draw players.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
September 24th, 2012 at 11:31:40 PM
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Quote: WongBo
even though you might not be the most politically correct.
.
Is that some kind of unwritten law now, you
have to be PC? Political correctness is pure
horse crap, its worse than the moral codes
people adhered to in Victorian times. You can
state something that everybody knows is correct,
but you're not supposed to say it because its
not PC.
Do you realize how nuts that is?
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 24th, 2012 at 11:43:51 PM
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That's when it is taken to the extreme.
I think avoiding making sweeping generalizations based on race and ethnicity
Is a preferable way to conduct oneself here, or in the real world.
I think avoiding making sweeping generalizations based on race and ethnicity
Is a preferable way to conduct oneself here, or in the real world.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
November 25th, 2012 at 8:12:26 AM
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Any updates on this case?
November 25th, 2012 at 9:13:50 AM
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Quote: bigpete88Any updates on this case?
Well, those players' lawyers were clearly overoptimistic about the two-month time period. But in the meantime, Fertitta/Landry has joined Revel on a lot of crap lists in Atlantic City:
"Contractors Claim $12 million Owed by Golden Nugget Atlantic City
By Casino Connection Staff Fri, Nov 02, 2012
The Golden Nugget in Atlantic City has now become the second casino in New Jersey with outstanding bills to local contractors.
During the past two months, at least 15 contractors have filed construction liens claiming that Golden Nugget owes them more than $12 million for work on the property. The case is similar to that of Revel casino, the new $2.4 billion mega-resort, which was hit with $27 million in outstanding liens and lawsuits brought by contractors and construction firms who were not paid for their work. Revel has said they are conducting final audits and intends to pay all outstanding bills. Golden Nugget has made similar claims, conducting a thorough review of contracts and services before settling their accounts.
“We are currently working with our team of contractors to resolve these issues and come to a final agreement on contract totals,” said Jeff Cantwell, senior vice president of development for Golden Nugget’s parent corporation, Landry’s Inc. “We continue to make payments in accordance with the approved changes and retainages due.”
The money comes from a $150 million renovation project personally financed by Landry’s Inc. owner Tilman Fertitta. The Texas billionaire, who owns two Golden Nugget properties in Nevada as well as several restaurant chains, bought the failing Trump Marina casino last year for $38 million. His re-branding effort—for which Fertitta contributed much of the design—employed national, regional and local contractors to transform not only the casino floor, hotel rooms and other interior spaces, but to convert the property’s façade as well." --casino connection
January 26th, 2013 at 7:14:57 PM
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Quote: bigpete88Any updates on this case?
"Almost $1 million worth of gambling chips are in legal limbo after a court ruling Friday in a high-stakes fight over unshuffled cards at the Golden Nugget Atlantic City. A state Superior Court judge ruled that Golden Nugget does not have to immediately pay gamblers their winnings from a disputed mini-baccarat game last year. Instead, the case will continue to be litigated.
At the same time, Judge James Isman refused to dismiss consumer-fraud claims filed by the gamblers against the casino. The gamblers contend that Golden Nugget tricked or defrauded them by refusing to pay up." acpress
June 15th, 2014 at 2:11:17 PM
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June 15th, 2014 at 2:21:20 PM
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Quote: sddude24here's another update
http://lasvegassun.com/news/2014/jun/13/nj-judge-rules-casino-not-liable-unshuffled-cards-/?_ga=1.71280213.454044415.1401241927
I wonder if this ruling will have any bearing in the Phil Ivey case.
Casinos are not your friends, they want your money. But so does Disneyland.
And there is no chance in hell that you will go to Disneyland and come back with more money than you went with.
- AxelWolf and Mickeycrimm
June 15th, 2014 at 6:13:23 PM
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What would have happened if they didn't realize it and lost $1.5million…could they then sue to be reimbursed as the game was technically "illegal"?
June 15th, 2014 at 6:44:43 PM
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Quote: aceofspadesWhat would have happened if they didn't realize it and lost $1.5million…could they then sue to be reimbursed as the game was technically "illegal"?
we have been talking about this in the AC thread.
My question actually is; the judge ruled that the game was illegal so that entitles the casino to keep the money. I am wondering if the players can now make another suit against the casino that they were provided an illegal game so the casino should be on the hook for that. There should be compensation of some sort to the players and the casino should be fined a huge sum of money by the gaming board.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed.
I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
June 15th, 2014 at 8:18:41 PM
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Pre-determined pattern you mean like in order for all 4 suits?
If so how would you bet during the first 52 cards?
If so how would you bet during the first 52 cards?
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
June 15th, 2014 at 9:01:30 PM
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The correct pattern starting with the second game (if I have mapped it out correctly) is:
B, B, P, B, P,
repeat
B, B, P, B, P,
repeat
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
February 13th, 2015 at 5:21:52 AM
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Just saw this story on Yahoo Finance. Apparently the casino wins again. Though I'm sure appeals are forthcoming.
The most interesting part of the article I saw was where the casino apparently offered to let them keep the winnings in return for dropping their suit against the casino. I think I would have taken that deal. The courts always seem to side with the casino. The laws are all written for them by their lawyer(s)/lobbyist/politicians...who are often the same people.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/judge-unshuffled-cards-void-game-012809841.html
The most interesting part of the article I saw was where the casino apparently offered to let them keep the winnings in return for dropping their suit against the casino. I think I would have taken that deal. The courts always seem to side with the casino. The laws are all written for them by their lawyer(s)/lobbyist/politicians...who are often the same people.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/judge-unshuffled-cards-void-game-012809841.html
February 13th, 2015 at 6:38:10 AM
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It's possible the cards WERE shuffled, but end up in the same order as they were before they were shuffled.
Damn near-impossible, but it IS possible, right?
Damn near-impossible, but it IS possible, right?
February 13th, 2015 at 8:06:44 AM
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The court found that the Golden Nugget was running an illegal game against state law and involving more than $1 million in civilians' money and the Golden Nugget is "pleased" with the ruling. No wonder. No penalty against the dopes was even mentioned in the news article. You really have to hand it to a system that not only condones clearly illegal actions, but then lets the perpetrators off the hook with nary a slap on the wrist.
February 13th, 2015 at 8:17:53 AM
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Quote: SanchoPanzaThe court found that the Golden Nugget was running an illegal game against state law and involving more than $1 million in civilians' money and the Golden Nugget is "pleased" with the ruling. No wonder. No penalty against the dopes was even mentioned in the news article. You really have to hand it to a system that not only condones clearly illegal actions, but then lets the perpetrators off the hook with nary a slap on the wrist.
Agreed... makes you think the system can be bought. (INSERT SARCASM DETECTOR HERE) In NJ nahhhh impossible.
February 13th, 2015 at 8:48:21 AM
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Quote: HowManyIt's possible the cards WERE shuffled, but end up in the same order as they were before they were shuffled.
Damn near-impossible, but it IS possible, right?
True. It's also possible I'll live in the White House some day.
February 13th, 2015 at 9:52:13 AM
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posted in similar thread (by me)
" litigation between the manufacturer and the casino was resolved, but a confidentiality agreement prevents details from being revealed" from the article linked in "cards NOT shuffled" thread.
Does anybody have a good guess what this would net the GN?
Seems to me the suit would involve maybe even more than $1.5M unless limited liability comes in. Hard to believe it could be limited to replacement of faulty merchandise.
If GN was found not at fault for losses (unlikely) by failing to notice the un-shuffled cards could casino be trying for a win-win here?
Trying to get the full amount back from the players under the guise of "bad form" could net them a profit. Or at least pay the lawyers...
Don't really know. Any ideas?
" litigation between the manufacturer and the casino was resolved, but a confidentiality agreement prevents details from being revealed" from the article linked in "cards NOT shuffled" thread.
Does anybody have a good guess what this would net the GN?
Seems to me the suit would involve maybe even more than $1.5M unless limited liability comes in. Hard to believe it could be limited to replacement of faulty merchandise.
If GN was found not at fault for losses (unlikely) by failing to notice the un-shuffled cards could casino be trying for a win-win here?
Trying to get the full amount back from the players under the guise of "bad form" could net them a profit. Or at least pay the lawyers...
Don't really know. Any ideas?
February 13th, 2015 at 12:20:35 PM
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Quote: HowManyIt's possible the cards WERE shuffled, but end up in the same order as they were before they were shuffled.
Damn near-impossible, but it IS possible, right?
If the cards were only riffled then after a certain amount of riffles (not that many if I remember correctly, I think around 9 or so depending on the placement of the top and bottom cards) the deck does return to its original order. Not saying that was the case here but just an interesting observation of the riffle shuffle. The math people here could probably explain why this occurs much better than I.
February 13th, 2015 at 8:26:22 PM
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Just awful
February 14th, 2015 at 1:48:53 PM
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All of the people in this thread arguing that the casino should "just pay for their mistake" are either completely ignorant of how gaming regulations work, or are just flat out intellectually dishonest. According to New Jersey state regulations, the cards must be shuffled prior to play or it is an invalid and illegal game. Any winnings that the casino received must be returned to the players, and any winnings that the players received must be returned to the casino. Since the failure was on the part of the casino, they should receive an appropriate fine. This is the law. There's no other argument to be made.
If if it was discovered that an 8 deck blackjack brick was erroneously stacked with "small cards" favoring the house, NONE of you would be arguing that all wins/losses on said game would be null and void. It's the same situation here. Try and come to terms with that reality.
If if it was discovered that an 8 deck blackjack brick was erroneously stacked with "small cards" favoring the house, NONE of you would be arguing that all wins/losses on said game would be null and void. It's the same situation here. Try and come to terms with that reality.
February 14th, 2015 at 1:56:47 PM
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Unless you want to maintain that it is perfectly all right to operate illegal games in the State of New Jersey.Quote: chrisjs87According to New Jersey state regulations, the cards must be shuffled prior to play or it is an invalid and illegal game. Any winnings that the casino received must be returned to the players, and any winnings that the players received must be returned to the casino. Since the failure was on the part of the casino, they should receive an appropriate fine. This is the law. There's no other argument to be made.
February 14th, 2015 at 4:13:43 PM
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Quote: waasnodayIf the cards were only riffled then after a certain amount of riffles (not that many if I remember correctly, I think around 9 or so depending on the placement of the top and bottom cards) the deck does return to its original order. Not saying that was the case here but just an interesting observation of the riffle shuffle. The math people here could probably explain why this occurs much better than I.
52 cards takes 8 perfect riffles to return the cards to their original order
104 cards takes 51 perfect riffles
156 cards takes 20
208 cards takes 66
260 cards takes 36
312 cards takes 155
364 cards takes 110
416 cards takes 164
February 14th, 2015 at 4:13:55 PM
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Quote: SanchoPanzaUnless you want to maintain that it is perfectly all right to operate illegal games in the State of New Jersey.
So when does GN get punished for offering illegal games?
February 14th, 2015 at 4:31:37 PM
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Quote: chrisjs87All of the people in this thread arguing that the casino should "just pay for their mistake" are either completely ignorant of how gaming regulations work, or are just flat out intellectually dishonest. According to New Jersey state regulations, the cards must be shuffled prior to play or it is an invalid and illegal game. Any winnings that the casino received must be returned to the players, and any winnings that the players received must be returned to the casino. Since the failure was on the part of the casino, they should receive an appropriate fine. This is the law. There's no other argument to be made.
If if it was discovered that an 8 deck blackjack brick was erroneously stacked with "small cards" favoring the house, NONE of you would be arguing that all wins/losses on said game would be null and void. It's the same situation here. Try and come to terms with that reality.
If they get their $$$ back for this incident where they didn't shuffle prior to play, they should also return all losses to all players in previous days where there was an illegal non-shuffle.
