Hoover Dam Suicide

A woman just jumped off the Hoover Dam bypass bridge.

Might this bridge become a magnet for suicidal-depressives, much like the Golden Gate ?

Quote: MrV

A woman just jumped off the Hoover Dam bypass bridge.

Might this bridge become a magnet for suicidal-depressives, much like the Golden Gate ?

Wonder if this was the first?

If you want to both be sure you go and do it in a spectacular fashion it is one of the best places west of the Mississippi.

Quote: AZDuffman

Wonder if this was the first?

It is reported as being the first.

It's a long way down. I took these pictures about a year apart. You can see how much improvement there is in the water level:



And a year or so later:

From pages 12, 13, and 14 from the Mike O'Callaghan-Pat Tillman Memorial Bridge thread on 11/5/2010:

Quote: Wizard

I didn't want to write this in the article, but think if you're going to commit suicide by jumping, this bridge would be a very convenient choice.

Quote: JerryLogan

That comment's just absolutely BEGGING for an essay from mkl! When I saw your pictures I sent a comment to my wife because we're going over it tomorrow and again Sunday. What I said was "no jumpers yet, but there WILL be". What's the line on that one?

Quote: Wizard

I'll bet on almost anything, but that is too morbid to wager one. However, just for the sake of argument, I set the line at the first jump as before/after 1/1/11.

Guess we should have bet the after.

Quote: Doc

Guess we should have bet the after.

In retrospect it was not a very good line, as it look 15 months past that date. This is in terrible taste, but it would ironic if someone left as a note a losing ticket to a "bridge jumper" bet, like the no safety in the Super Bowl.

At Pimlico racetrack in the late 50's or early sixties, when taxes had to be filed on March 15, a bettor at the track lost on a horse named Tax Refund and blew his brains out at the finish line.

On a happier note a horse name Last day won on the last day of Racing at Bowie, Pimlico, and Laurel racetracks all in one year.
And paid boxcar figures each time.

Quote: MrV

A woman just jumped off the Hoover Dam bypass bridge.

Might this bridge become a magnet for suicidal-depressives, much like the Golden Gate ?

Probably not. Most of the primary suicide bridges in the USA are near populated areas, and it is possible to go out for a walk and cross the bridge. The argument for suicide prevention barriers is that some people do it without any planning.



Since the Nevada bridge mostly involves driving or taking a bus, it falls under the category of planned suicides. Planned suicides can be done by a variety of means.

Suicide kills more people than murders and wars combined.

Quote: pacomartin

Suicide kills more people than murders and wars combined.

The actor George Sanders committed suicide when
he was 65 by swallowing 5 bottles of sleeping pills.
His suicide note read:

"Dear World, I am leaving because I am bored. I feel
I have lived long enough. I am leaving you with your
worries in this sweet cesspool. Good luck."

He had told David Niven when he was 37 that he was
going to kill himself when he was 65. Gotta love a man
with a plan.

In 2010 more members of the US military committed suicide than were killed in action . SAD

Quote: buzzpaff

In 2010 more members of the US military committed suicide than were killed in action . SAD

Most suicide victims have major problems long
before they do the act. Some think about it for
decades. Often the military is the last resort
and when that doesn't work, they give up.

Hemingway thought about suicide since the 30's,
when his father did it. Hemingway's brother and
sister and grand daughter killed themselves.
Thats five members of the same family. It does
run in families sometimes.

Quote: EvenBob

Hemingway's brother and
sister and grand daughter killed themselves.
Thats five members of the same family. It does
run in families sometimes.

I knew a guy whose dad killed himself when the boy was young.

Growing up, people often teased the boy, and said he'd kill himself too when he got older, just like his dad.

He told me "You just wait, you'll see, I'll fool them all."

But then he blew his brains out in his mid-20's.

Like father, like son.

Antother time, I hitched down the Oregeon and California coast, and a guy I'd met let me share xmas dinner with him and his family in Santa Cruz.

His dad looked and acted ... damaged.

Come to find out he tried to blow his brains out, and botched the job.

Talk about awkward ...

I'm so glad there's a thread about suicide as it has a special place for me. It's takes a particularly strong person to carry through with it rather than just talk about it for the sake of gaining sympathy. Las Vegas is the Suicide Capitol of America by the way.

And since we're talking about it, let me reference some live footage of R. Budd Dwyer's famous offing, who was involved in a scandal and saw no other way out. Scroll down to the quicktime movie. There was also a newscaster named Christine Chubbuck who shot herself live on the air in July, 1974 but that was before VCRs and there's not any footage that I could find. Almost seems the Hollywood movie Network might've been based on that.

Here's a list of top 10 famous public suicides.

Quote: MrV

Like father, like son.

Very very common in men. If your father kills
himself, there is a good chance you will to. It
works on you, your father did it, so its ok for
you. Depression also runs in families, thats a
big part of it.

I have mixed feelings about the subject. Certainly I have contempt for the wrist slashers who immediately call 911 and have the paramedics dramatically save them. I also get angry with the men who kill their wives simultaneously along with themselves when there is no evidence that the spouse was on board with it. I'll never forget watching a program about a guy who botched it, he panicked when he shot his wife and she starting flopping around like a fish. He called 911 and failed to shoot himself in his distress, simply not familiar with violent death. On TV and movies they just slump over or fall down like they fainted, you know. He reached Hell without dying like his spouse, they showed him, he was crazy as a loon and clearly tormented.

For those who really carry through, it depends. If, say, someone being tortured by some regime was able to escape his tormentors this way, I might even admire them. Most other situations, I just go with "I understand", but this is something less than full approval.

Quote: Wizard

In retrospect it was not a very good line, as it look 15 months past that date. This is in terrible taste, but it would ironic if someone left as a note a losing ticket to a "bridge jumper" bet, like the no safety in the Super Bowl.

Here's your chance for a second shot. Give us a line on the balconies of The Cosmopolitan.

Quote: Wizard

In retrospect it was not a very good line, as it look 15 months past that date. This is in terrible taste, but it would ironic if someone left as a note a losing ticket to a "bridge jumper" bet, like the no safety in the Super Bowl.

Should we be worried???

My position is on the matter is that we should stop the act and offer professional suicide assistance.

Have a service available, but not advertised, at certain hospitals. You check in, there is a mandatory 1-day wait to make sure you're serious, they check your body for transplant usability, you work out the trade-in value, the legal matters are verified and settled. Then you leave in your preferred manner, morphine, diamorphine, medulla severing, captive bolt, or something else, the transplantable components are salvaged, the remainder retained for other purposes or disposed in a culturally established manner.

Certainly it won't work for everyone, but we'll able to extract some residual value from planned suicides, as well as avoid both material and emotional cleanup costs from certain self-termination methods.

Quote: buzzpaff

In 2010 more members of the US military committed suicide than were killed in action . SAD

I think year in and year out the military loses 1-2 a day that way. Some doubtless hoped to go in action and when they found out that would not happen took matters into their own hands. Others probably entered depressed. Many people join to get away from their life. Bad famiy, smal town, gang member, whatever. When their problems are not "solved" they do it.

Quote: zippyboy

I'm so glad there's a thread about suicide as it has a special place for me. It's takes a particularly strong person to carry through with it rather than just talk about it for the sake of gaining sympathy. Las Vegas is the Suicide Capitol of America by the way.

I read that article, and it had the usual abuse of statistics that really annoys me. For example, it stated "From 1991 to 2002, 4,994 people killed themselves in Nevada." That is fine, but how does that compare to the size of the population, and how does that compare with the other 49 states? To answer that question I came across this article: Suicide vs. Homicide by State, per 100,000. You can eyeball the chart and it looks like Nevada is 5th. States with more suicides per capita are Alaska, Montana, New Mexico, and Wyoming. Alaska, by the way, is number 1. If you're going to say that Las Vegas has more than any other major city -- prove it.

On an aside, I wonder how they are going to count the recent Hoover Dam Bridge suicide. Will it go by where she jumped from, where the body landed, or where the body was found? What if they only know #3? For the benefit of others who may not understand why it matters, the bridge is right on the Nevada- Arizona border.

Trivia time: The theme music to M*A*S*H has both a title and lyrics. What was the title of it? As always, no searching. For the benefit of others, if you know, black out your answer or send it to me by PM.

S****** is *******s
Brings on many changes!
Fast edit, didn't read your last line, sorry

Trivia answer: Only the movie M*A*S*H had lyrics to the theme, not the TV series. I don't even know that the TV series claimed the same title as the tune/song had in the film. In the film, the title was Suicide is Painless.

I have a humor (?) article on this topic entitled "Suicide, Accident, or Homicide?" that supposedly came from the Journal of the American Academy of Forensic Scientists. I don't know whether that is a true source. I have had it stored on my computer at least since 1995. I would be willing to share this for everyone's entertainment, but as a Word document it runs a full page of 12 pt type. I don't know that it is appropriate for me to make such a post here, even though I think most folks would find the writeup both interesting and amusing. Any suggestions on how/whether I should make this available?

Quote: Doc

Trivia answer: Only the movie M*A*S*H had lyrics to the theme, not the TV series. I don't even know that the TV series claimed the same title as the tune/song had in the film. In the film, the title was Suicide is Painless.

I have a humor (?) article on this topic entitled "Suicide, Accident, or Homicide?" that supposedly came from the Journal of the American Academy of Forensic Scientists. I don't know whether that is a true source. I have had it stored on my computer at least since 1995. I would be willing to share this for everyone's entertainment, but as a Word document it runs a full page of 12 pt type. I don't know that it is appropriate for me to make such a post here, even though I think most folks would find the writeup both interesting and amusing. Any suggestions on how/whether I should make this available?

Blog

Quote: AZDuffman

I think year in and year out the military loses 1-2 a day that way. Some doubtless hoped to go in action and when they found out that would not happen took matters into their own hands. Others probably entered depressed. Many people join to get away from their life. Bad famiy, smal town, gang member, whatever. When their problems are not "solved" they do it.

Consider this ... the government ENCOURAGES soldiers to kill themselves.

U.S. servicemembers are given the choice to enroll in SGLI, which is inexpensive term life insurance: starts at $7.50 / month for $50,000 death benefit, and goes up to $27 / month for $400,000 death benefit.

OK, here's the kicker: unlike civilian insurance policies, there is NO SUICIDE CLAUSE: the policy pays out in full in the event of a suicide.

I know of a case where a young man, newly married with a young child, killed himself after enlisting because, according to his widow, he felt it was such a f*&k up that suicide was the only way his wife and kid would ever get ahead.

Very odd public policy to reward the beneficiaries of SGLI-insured soldiers who suicide.

I think there was some controversy if suicides of Vietnam veterans, directly attributable to the war, were to be included on the monument in DC. Does anyone know how that resolved?

Quote: FinsRule

Blog

Turns out that it wasn't so long an article as I remembered, so I'll post it here. Skip if you don't want to read it.


Suicide, Accident, or Homicide?

For those of you who were unable to attend the Awards Dinner during the Annual Meeting in San Diego, you missed a tall tale on complex forensics presented by AAFS President Don Harper Mills in his opening remarks. The following is a recount of Dr. Mills story...

On March 23 the medical examiner viewed the body of Ronald Opus and concluded that he died from a gunshot wound of the head caused by a shotgun. Investigation to that point had revealed that the victim had jumped from the top of a ten story building with the intent to commit suicide (he left a note indicating his despondency). As he passed the 9th floor on the way down, his life was interrupted by a shotgun blast through a window, killing him instantly. Neither the shooter nor the victim was aware that a safety net had been erected at the 8th floor to protect some window washers and that the victim would not have been able to complete his intent to commit suicide because of this.

Ordinarily, a person who starts into motion the events with a suicide intent, ultimately commits suicide even though the mechanism might not be what he intended. That he was shot on the way to certain death nine stories below probably would not change his mode of death from suicide to homicide. But the circumstances caused the medical examiner to feel that he had homicide on his hands.

Further investigation led to the discovery that the room on the 9th floor from whence the shotgun blast emanated was occupied by an elderly man and his wife. He was threatening her with the shotgun because of an inter-spousal spat and became so upset he could not hold the shotgun straight. Therefore when he pulled the trigger, he completely missed his wife and the pellets went through the window striking the victim.

When one intends to kill subject A, but kills subject B in the attempt, one is guilty of murder of subject B. The old man was confronted with this conclusion, but both he and his wife were adamant in stating that neither knew that the shotgun was loaded. It was a longtime habit of the old man to threaten his wife with an unloaded shotgun. He had no intent to murder her, therefore the killing of the victim appeared to be an accident. That is, the gun had been accidentally loaded.

But further investigation turned up a witness that their son was seen loading the shotgun approximately six weeks prior to the fatal accident. That investigation showed that the mother (the old lady) had cut off her son's financial support and her son, knowing the propensity of his father to use the shotgun threateningly, loaded the gun with the expectation that the father would shoot his mother. The case now becomes one of murder on the part of the son for the death of Ronald Opus.

Further investigation revealed that the son became increasingly despondent over the failure of his attempt to get his mother murdered. This led him to jump off a ten-story building on March 23, only to be killed by a shotgun blast through a 9th story window.

The medical examiner closed the case as a suicide.

Quote: Doc

Suicide, Accident, or Homicide?

In the episode of Homicide, in which I played an extra, this story was told at a meeting of medical examiner's in Baltimore.

As I said, my computer Word file with that story has an creation date of March 1995. I don't know where I copied it from back then, and I have no idea whether the cited source is reliable.

So when were you acting?

Quote: Doc

So when were you acting?

I had a non-speaking role as a pathologist in the medical examiner's lab. Although I spent all day on the set you only can see me walking around in the background. I should put it on YouTube sometime. This would have been around 1997.

Being a Vietnam Era vet myself, I remember all the hell Vietnam veterans raised when the winning design for the Memorial was released to the public. OMG, we are getting screwed again. Now it is the most visited attraction in Washington, DC

But at the time, vietnam vets were blamed for everything imagined. Evesr mass murderer, serial killer, or scumbag politician claimed to be a Vietnam Vet.

As for suicides, I was listening to a radio talk show last night. The guest was talking about all the anti-Phycotic drugs being issued to the military. And when sent into another country, they go in with 180 day supplies of meds.

How is that for a formula for disaster for these kids ? I have to admit that on Sunday morning news shows or any show, where they roll the names and pix of those brave young men who died. I turn the tv off. What a shame !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote: Doc

Trivia answer: Only the movie M*A*S*H had lyrics to the theme, not the TV series. I don't even know that the TV series claimed the same title as the tune/song had in the film. In the film, the title was Suicide is Painless.

The writer of the lyrics made more money than the director of M*A*S*H. The lyrics writer was Robert Altman's 14-year old son, Mike Altman.

Quote: EvenBob

Very very common in men. If your father kills
himself, there is a good chance you will to.

In the same vein, if your father never had sex, you likely won't either :)

Quote: thecesspit

The writer of the lyrics made more money than the director of M*A*S*H. The lyrics writer was Robert Altman's 14-year old son, Mike Altman.

I can't remember details, but it seems to me that there was some question about that. Something like he might have been given credit for something he never did. Do you recall?

Mike got the royalties for writing the lyrics, and the song managed to go global (number 1 in the UK, covered many times). Robert Altman was very keen to do MASH so he directed the film for $70,000.

I've heard some people say a 14 year old couldn't have written the lyrics, but I've never seen any real proof of that.

Quote: Wizard

I think there was some controversy if suicides of Vietnam veterans, directly attributable to the war, were to be included on the monument in DC. Does anyone know how that resolved?

I know they have added names at least once. The first list omitted some deaths near-but-not-quite-in the defined theater. IIRC Ford Motor Company paid to have it done.