Poll

No votes (0%)
2 votes (12.5%)
1 vote (6.25%)
3 votes (18.75%)
No votes (0%)
1 vote (6.25%)
No votes (0%)
3 votes (18.75%)
1 vote (6.25%)
5 votes (31.25%)

16 members have voted

RobSinger
RobSinger
Joined: Oct 6, 2010
  • Threads: 5
  • Posts: 199
March 28th, 2011 at 2:42:44 PM permalink
Quote: timberjim

You seem to have a very negative view of Fox News. It should be very easy for you to document their bias. Remember that no one is denying bias on their commentary shows. Can you please document one news story broadcast that was biased.

As for the "main stream media" being biased, that debate was closed when CBS News and their anchor, Dan Rather, broadcast a negative attack on Bush in 2004 just before the election based on forged documents that their own experts told them were no good before the segment was aired. This was a blatant attempt to influence the upcoming election. The really pitiful thing has been Rather maintaining that his report was factual even after all of his "proof" was shown to be faked.



Liberals go after Fox News when they get frustrated over how they talk the talk then back it up by walking the walk when it comes to being fair & balanced. Almost every day one or more of their journalists and anchors offer proof of their airing both sides of any given story, yet liberals who don't watch it instead revert back to lies from looney-toon outfits like Move-on and others. And from the pasting the left has been having to take since Obama walked as an extremely inexperienced Mesiah, they almost need to do these things to be able to cope.
thecesspit
thecesspit
Joined: Apr 19, 2010
  • Threads: 53
  • Posts: 5936
March 28th, 2011 at 2:47:33 PM permalink
Quote: RobSinger

It must seem so simple to someone on the outside. It's not publicly available information, I don't have the documents, I was informed about it by someone inside, and the machine I tested seem to confirm the information but does not absolutely do so. What has been even more convincing is what I've seen as a player.



Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. It does seem simple : you have never provided results of your tests, your methods used to do those tests, you have not provided documentation, only heresay and anecdoctal evidence. The latter two are no more valid than a claim that Obama was born in Kenya based on heresay and supposition. You have written about it, but as you stated earlier, someone writing about something in a newspaper does not make it so.

For someone who writes about the Undeniable Truth, I don't think you've done much to expose the truth or make it undeniable in this case.

Indeed your choice to do what you like with the information so discovered, but you'll have to excuse the rest of the world for considering it a rather far-out claim.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
weaselman
weaselman
Joined: Jul 11, 2010
  • Threads: 20
  • Posts: 2349
March 28th, 2011 at 2:58:59 PM permalink
Quote: Wavy70


It is amazing that the Birthers know so much about Obama's upbringing but seem clueless to Google. Excellent sleuth work PaulE.



If by "Birthers" you mean myself, I know absolutely nothing about Obama's upbringing ...

I am not clueless about google, but hesitant to use it in casual conversation. When RobSinger mentioned that Obama won't produce his birth certificate, and Wiz confirmed that by saying that he did not think it was necessary, I did not see any reason to not trust any of them in the issue, and double check their facts with google. Like I said, I don't really care if he produced his certificate or not, my position was just that, if he did not, like RobSinger and Wizard were saying, it was arrogant and rude.

Now, don't get me wrong, I still think he is rude and arrogant. And, I still think he could/should have handled the whole birth certificate issue better (perhaps, in a less rude and arrogant manner).
However, I was mistaken in accepting RobSinger's and Wizard's statements to the effect that birth certificate was never provided.
I still don't think that I should verify everything anyone says on google or by some other means, and think that your accusation is unwarranted.
"When two people always agree one of them is unnecessary"
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1423
  • Posts: 24364
March 28th, 2011 at 3:24:03 PM permalink
Quote: timberjim

You seem to have a very negative view of Fox News. It should be very easy for you to document their bias. Remember that no one is denying bias on their commentary shows. Can you please document one news story broadcast that was biased.

As for the "main stream media" being biased, that debate was closed when CBS News and their anchor, Dan Rather, broadcast a negative attack on Bush in 2004 just before the election based on forged documents that their own experts told them were no good before the segment was aired. This was a blatant attempt to influence the upcoming election. The really pitiful thing has been Rather maintaining that his report was factual even after all of his "proof" was shown to be faked.



*sigh* Almost every time I flip past Fox they are in commentary mode. Most of the time it is devoted to attacking Obama. Meanwhile, they turned a blind eye or at most put on velvet gloves when it came to GWB. I don't deny the Dan Rather incident. However, one incident does not make a case for the entire mainstream media being biased.

Quote: AZDuffman

The Constitution says "natural borncitizen." John McCain was born in the then Canal Zone, US Territory but not the USA. A child born to military parents stationed in Germany would be eligible. Lots of Resident Aliens (green gard) have SS numbers and cards, I have hired a few in my time. I forget what it says exactly, but there is a stamp on the SS Card stating this fact or some other disclaimer. Maybe someone can help remind me what it says.



For constitutional purposes, US military bases and embassies are part of the US.

Here is what my SS card says on the back of the paper it was attached to, that most pertains to this discussion:

If you are an alien legally in the U.S. but you do not have permission to work in this country, your Social Security card will be marked "NOT VALID FOR EMPLOYMENT." US immigration officials will be notified if the number is used for unauthorized employment."

Finally, can I put in a plug for a thread I put in the FSZ. Some of you may have missed it because FSZ posts don't get put in the "most recent posts" list. Cell phone etiquette in the UCLA Library.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
  • Threads: 229
  • Posts: 12735
March 28th, 2011 at 3:36:23 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

*sigh* Almost every time I flip past Fox they are in commentary mode. Most of the time it is devoted to attacking Obama. Meanwhile, they turned a blind eye or at most put on velvet gloves when it came to GWB. I don't deny the Dan Rather incident. However, one incident does not make a case for the entire mainstream media being biased.



FNC is in commentary mode all evening, a ratings winner and after all, there is not enough hard news to cover all day every day. Even in commentary mode FNC brings on both sides as guests. During the midterms FNC had their news-side covering it with a breakaway to Hannity and O'rielly for just a few minutes. MSNBC, meanwhile, had Maddow and I think Olberman on the whole time. Yes, I flipped back and forth just to see how MSNBC would cover it.

As to GWB, FNC was the outlet that broke the story of his DUI way back in the 1970s just days before the election. Meanwhile, CBS sat on the Monica Lewinsky story back in 1998 until Matt Drudge found out they had it. Doccumentation of CBS Bias can be found here: http://www.ratherbiased.com.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
timberjim
timberjim
Joined: Dec 5, 2009
  • Threads: 33
  • Posts: 398
March 28th, 2011 at 3:46:31 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

*sigh* Almost every time I flip past Fox they are in commentary mode. Most of the time it is devoted to attacking Obama. Meanwhile, they turned a blind eye or at most put on velvet gloves when it came to GWB. I don't deny the Dan Rather incident. However, one incident does not make a case for the entire mainstream media being biased.

].



I accept the fact Fox News Channel has many Commentary shows. Is there something wrong with people expressing their views? I get the distinct feeling that you feel that anyone that watches Fox News is somehow less intelligent than you *sigh* . If I have misconstrued your sarcasm, I apoligize.

Please document a single story about GWB that they turned a blind eye on. I am just looking for facts to back up the broad sweeping statements you have made. I look forward to the documented examples of these "velvet gloves". I easily documented the bias displayed by the left and will provide more after you have backed up your claims.
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
March 28th, 2011 at 3:56:01 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

For constitutional purposes, US military bases and embassies are part of the US.



Really? I find that suprrising. Embassies are considered sovereign territory of the country they represent. This is so all over the world. But I'm less certain about military bases.

In any case, what makes a "natural born" citizen? In Europe many countries define citizenship by blood-lines. Countries in the Western hemisphere, as far as I know, rely more on geography and parentage.

In Mexico you qualify as natural born if:

1) you are born in any part of Mexico; states, territories and possesions
2) you are born in any kind of sovereign territory of Mexico, including embassies but also Mexican-flagged ships or aircraft
3) either or both of your parents are Mexcian citizens

What are the rules in the US?
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
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March 28th, 2011 at 4:34:17 PM permalink
Quote: timberjim

Please document a single story about GWB that they turned a blind eye on. I am just looking for facts to back up the broad sweeping statements you have made. I look forward to the documented examples of these "velvet gloves". I easily documented the bias displayed by the left and will provide more after you have backed up your claims.



I don't wish to debate what is plainly obvious to me. Go ahead and claim victory if you wish; I don't really care.

Quote: Nareed

Really? I find that suprrising. Embassies are considered sovereign territory of the country they represent. This is so all over the world. But I'm less certain about military bases.

In any case, what makes a "natural born" citizen?



I'm not an expert, but I'm quite sure a child born on a US military base would be immediately considered a US citizen. I think that as long as the US flag was flying over wherever the birth took place would be the applicable test.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
  • Threads: 65
  • Posts: 3412
March 28th, 2011 at 4:52:58 PM permalink
Quote: RobSinger

It must seem so simple to someone on the outside. It's not publicly available information, I don't have the documents, I was informed about it by someone inside, and the machine I tested seems to confirm the information but does not absolutely do so. What has been even more convincing is what I've seen as a player.



This last statement highlights your fundamental misunderstanding of the concept. "What I've seen as a player" would, for any person, even someone who plays 50 hours a week, be a much too small sample size to draw any meaningful conclusion.

Any given player is quite likely to experience results that are far to one side or the other of the bell curve. Those who get crushed on the machines say there's a conspiracy and the machines are nonrandom; those who get lucky say they are geniuses and sell their VP "systems" to the gullible. What's bizarre, in your case, is that you seem to be assuming both roles--someone who says the machines are nonrandom but that you have a magical system for beating said nonrandom machines, AS THOUGH THAT DELIBERATELY PROGRAMMED NONRANDOMNESS WAS CONSTRUCTED TO FAVOR THE PLAYER. That's loonier than any tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorist's ravings.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
teddys
teddys
Joined: Nov 14, 2009
  • Threads: 150
  • Posts: 5514
March 28th, 2011 at 5:08:54 PM permalink
Would be a fine argument, except U.S. bases aren't U.S. territory under the 14th amendment. (They may be territory for other legal purposes, but do not grant citizenship to people born there). The only places that qualify are the 50 states, DC, Puerto Rico, USVI, Guam, and NMI.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4

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