AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
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September 23rd, 2022 at 11:16:00 PM permalink
I know that we've discussed over and over how the IRS wants to see your LOGS of wins and losses when there's an audit for gambling.

But yesterday I saw documents from the IRS that asked for casino win/loss statements and the personal logs would only be accepted if casino documents were not available.

This surprised me.

I think we've all heard that casino WIN/LOSS statements were not considered to be acceptable by the IRS-- but for this audit the IRS is giving preference to the casino's docs over what the player may have.

As some of you know I write blogs for several tax help companies and now I'm going to have to note this.

By the way, the audit notice came out of Vegas and not some area unfamiliar with gaming.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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September 23rd, 2022 at 11:29:51 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

I know that we've discussed over and over how the IRS wants to see your LOGS of wins and losses when there's an audit for gambling.

But yesterday I saw documents from the IRS that asked for casino win/loss statements and the personal logs would only be accepted if casino documents were not available.

This surprised me.

I think we've all heard that casino WIN/LOSS statements were not considered to be acceptable by the IRS-- but for this audit the IRS is giving preference to the casino's docs over what the player may have.

As some of you know I write blogs for several tax help companies and now I'm going to have to note this.

By the way, the audit notice came out of Vegas and not some area unfamiliar with gaming.
link to original post

And of course, if you didn't have logs the casino win/loss statements suddenly wouldn't be acceptable.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
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September 23rd, 2022 at 11:50:15 PM permalink
In this case -- and I saw the audit notice -- they want the casino's WL report.

This really changes things if it is widespread. Anyone claiming to be a professional player would need to present ID to have a casino WL report.

And frankly I often wondered why personal logs could be trusted???
IWannaBeAP
IWannaBeAP
Joined: Aug 22, 2022
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September 24th, 2022 at 12:20:44 AM permalink
That's one more reason for ratholing
IWannaBeAP
IWannaBeAP
Joined: Aug 22, 2022
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September 24th, 2022 at 12:21:55 AM permalink
Rathole 10 black chips per session and tell IRS your table game loss deducts VP wins lol
DRich
DRich
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
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September 24th, 2022 at 4:38:31 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson


But yesterday I saw documents from the IRS that asked for casino win/loss statements and the personal logs would only be accepted if casino documents were not available.

This surprised me.

I think we've all heard that casino WIN/LOSS statements were not considered to be acceptable by the IRS-- but for this audit the IRS is giving preference to the casino's docs over what the player may have.



Like all things in life, it just depends on the person you are dealing with. Everybody has their own opinion on what is best, sometimes that might be outside the official guidelines.
Order from chaos
100xOdds
100xOdds
Joined: Feb 5, 2012
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September 24th, 2022 at 5:04:51 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

I know that we've discussed over and over how the IRS wants to see your LOGS of wins and losses when there's an audit for gambling.

But yesterday I saw documents from the IRS that asked for casino win/loss statements and the personal logs would only be accepted if casino documents were not available.

This surprised me.

I think we've all heard that casino WIN/LOSS statements were not considered to be acceptable by the IRS-- but for this audit the IRS is giving preference to the casino's docs over what the player may have.

As some of you know I write blogs for several tax help companies and now I'm going to have to note this.

By the way, the audit notice came out of Vegas and not some area unfamiliar with gaming.
link to original post

For this audit, what was your total w2-g's?
And which tax year?

(You mentioned over a decade ago you had $1M+ worth of w2-g's, didn't put down a profit from it and didn't get audited)
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
ChumpChange
ChumpChange
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September 24th, 2022 at 5:26:43 AM permalink
It's going to be hard to dispute a $1,000 win from the W/L statement when I never won $1,000. Craps table thinks I won a $1 Fire Bet without giving me a W-2G?
I think I need to see some real W/L statements to see what people would normally complain about them for.
Gandler
Gandler
Joined: Jan 27, 2014
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September 24th, 2022 at 8:25:47 AM permalink
Win/Loss statements are perfect if 100% online gambling (at legit sites).

However, physical casinos they seem unreliable, you really only get tracked if you have a player card and ID and even if they are tracking there is often mistakes (you are at the mercy of the floor/pit paying attention). And if you play slots and don't bother to insert your card (or forget) its totally off.

Personal logs seem the safest way to keep track, if you go to the casino with a set bankroll for the night, you know exactly how much you leave with (and thus wins or losses), but even this is not perfect because if you use your cash for other things through the night it may make it look like your losses are higher than they really are.

I don't think outside of legit (state regulated) online casinos there is a 100% way to know your wins/losses short of sitting at the table with a notepad and logging every bet and the result (which would be frowned upon/prohibited at BJ and would take all of the fun out of it).
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
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September 24th, 2022 at 9:21:54 AM permalink
The question is this...

Does this mark a sea change for what's considered proving wins and losses?

Some casinos are moving to RFID chips which can provide detailed exact reports and negates ratholing.

This is the first time I've ever heard of an actual audit of casino gaming.

DRICH my big audit was about 15 years ago when my partners and I sold our website business. That year I had $2.9-mill in W2Gs and while two auditors spent two days camped at our accountant's office they never even looked at anyone's casino betting.

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