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AxelWolf
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July 14th, 2021 at 9:12:59 AM permalink
Quote: coachbelly

You are incorrect.

If you say so. Willing to put your money where your mouth is?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
billryan
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July 14th, 2021 at 9:47:27 AM permalink
Quote: coachbelly

Not in the case of illicit cash received for illegal activities.

You would want to convert that cash to taxable income.

If you spend the illicit cash, an investigation would show you to be living above your means.



No, you don't. Wouldn't you rather convert it to an after- tax asset than to taxable income? It is the reason God invented shell corporations.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
coachbelly
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July 14th, 2021 at 9:52:56 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

If you say so. Willing to put your money where your mouth is?



As long as I can witness what you claim to be able to do, then yes I am.
darkoz
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July 14th, 2021 at 9:54:09 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

No, you don't. Wouldn't you rather convert it to an after- tax asset than to taxable income? It is the reason God invented shell corporations.



Bill has me on ignore so I will ask the question in general.

While all money laundering is illegal certainly the methods he described are multiple layers of illegality. Insurance fraud, bank fraud, tax fraud all on top of laundering.

It seems compound criminality may clean a higher percentage of money but get you a higher jail sentence as well
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MDawg
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July 14th, 2021 at 10:26:55 AM permalink
It's absurd for anyone to claim that you could go to a table game OR slot machine, deposit cash, not win anything at all or not play at all, and then go get a check for the cash you deposited. Anyone who claims otherwise should be ignored in entirety. That would be straight money laundering conversion of cash to casino check.


Some research that should be done as well, as far as this idea of taking $150K cash to a casino and laundering it via slot play, hoping to win and get W2-Gs, is the threshold minimum dollar amount for which a casino will issue a check? I play table games only, so my winning checks have always been $5K or higher, but will a casino issue a winning check at slots for say, just a few hundred dollars?

What I am getting at is:
Drug Dealer goes to casino with $150K cash.
Plays slots.
Wouldn't he first of all have to play somewhat big just to get enough jackpots to harvest some W2-Gs? And if he is playing that hard, then stands to reason he will end up receiving a CTR or SAR for the cash input. Any CTRs or SARs received will defeat the purpose of the money laundering exercise as there will be a record of cash input.
And if he plays small, and doesn't get any W2-Gs, just smaller win tickets, is the cage even going to issue a check to him for those smaller win payouts? Maybe absent a big (above W2-G threshold) win the casino won't even be able to verify that there was a win, and will not issue a check at all for those slot tickets, which would represent a combination of cash input and winnings. Or, even if they are able to figure out what portion of the slot ticket is cash input and winnings, will they issue such small denomination checks?
Notwithstanding that according to DarkOz he wants REPORTED winnings, so these small win tickets aren't going to help him in that respect.

Again, keep in mind, the cage will never issue a check for anything other than the winning portion. The casino will not lend itself to straight money laundering of the cash deposited absent a win.
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
coachbelly
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July 14th, 2021 at 10:35:14 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg

It's absurd for anyone to claim that you could go to a table game OR slot machine, deposit cash, not win anything at all or not play at all, and then go get a check for the cash you deposited. Anyone who claims otherwise should be ignored in entirety. That would be straight money laundering conversion of cash to casino check.



It seems like AW is ready to bet that he can do it.

I don't believe him either...I agree with your advice.
MDawg
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July 14th, 2021 at 10:36:57 AM permalink
Anyone claiming such a thing is so disconnected with the ways casinos work today, that it would be, if nothing else, evidence of not having obtained a winning check from a casino in YEARS.
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
darkoz
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July 14th, 2021 at 10:44:32 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg

It's absurd for anyone to claim that you could go to a table game OR slot machine, deposit cash, not win anything at all or not play at all, and then go get a check for the cash you deposited. Anyone who claims otherwise should be ignored in entirety. That would be straight money laundering conversion of cash to casino check.


Some research that should be done as well, as far as this idea of taking $150K cash to a casino and laundering it via slot play, hoping to win and get W2-Gs, is the threshold minimum dollar amount for which a casino will issue a check? I play table games only, so my winning checks have always been $5K or higher, but will a casino issue a winning check at slots for say, just a few hundred dollars?

What I am getting at is:
Drug Dealer goes to casino with $150K cash.
Plays slots.
Wouldn't he first of all have to play somewhat big just to get enough jackpots to harvest some W2-Gs? And if he is playing that hard, then stands to reason he will end up receiving a CTR or SAR for the cash input. Any CTRs or SARs received will defeat the purpose of the money laundering exercise as there will be a record of cash input.
And if he plays small, and doesn't get any W2-Gs, just smaller win tickets, is the cage even going to issue a check to him for those smaller win payouts? Maybe absent a big (above W2-G threshold) win the casino won't even be able to verify that there was a win, and will not issue a check at all for those slot tickets, which would represent a combination of cash input and winnings. Or, even if they are able to figure out what portion of the slot ticket is cash input and winnings, will they issue such small denomination checks?
Notwithstanding that according to DarkOz he wants REPORTED winnings, so these small win tickets aren't going to help him in that respect.

Again, keep in mind, the cage will never issue a check for anything other than the winning portion. The casino will not lend itself to straight money laundering of the cash deposited absent a win.



So you think the drug dealer might not be able to prove a measly $10,000 income? And the IRS is going to go after him for $10,000?
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MDawg
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July 14th, 2021 at 11:05:29 AM permalink
How many CTRs or SARs will he receive during this process? Will he be guilty of structuring if he tries to input deliberately under 10K cash per 24 hours? Will he be guilty of structuring if he runs around to different casinos deliberately trying to keep each casino's deposits under 10K per 24 hours?

What do his past tax returns look like? Has he ever even filed?

And we're not talking about 10000 (or more) income, we're talking 10000 or more, cash. honey baby, it's hard to convince a jury you found it in a taxicab.

I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
darkoz
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July 14th, 2021 at 11:11:59 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg

How many CTRs or SARs will he receive during this process? Will he be guilty of structuring for trying to input deliberately under 10K cash per 24 hours? Will he be guilty of structuring if he runs around to different casinos deliberately trying to keep each casino's deposits under 10K per 24 hours?

What do his past tax returns look like? Has he ever even filed?

And we're not talking about 10000 (or more) income, we're talking 10000 or more, cash. honey baby, it's hard to convince a jury you found it in a taxicab.



I suspect a drug dealer is resourceful enough to pay a local business owner to say he made some wages.

Ten grand just isn't that hard to prove.

Most likely the drug dealer will then claim kids on a tax return (he may even legit have kids) and he gets close to ten gees in child care credit. And I am pretty certain the IRS would accept their own refund as a source for his money.

There are just too many simple ways to explain ten grand

And then once winning a few W2G payments it's off to the races
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
unJon
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July 14th, 2021 at 11:19:48 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Quote: MDawg

How many CTRs or SARs will he receive during this process? Will he be guilty of structuring for trying to input deliberately under 10K cash per 24 hours? Will he be guilty of structuring if he runs around to different casinos deliberately trying to keep each casino's deposits under 10K per 24 hours?

What do his past tax returns look like? Has he ever even filed?

And we're not talking about 10000 (or more) income, we're talking 10000 or more, cash. honey baby, it's hard to convince a jury you found it in a taxicab.



I suspect a drug dealer is resourceful enough to pay a local business owner to say he made some wages.

Ten grand just isn't that hard to prove.

Most likely the drug dealer will then claim kids on a tax return (he may even legit have kids) and he gets close to ten gees in child care credit. And I am pretty certain the IRS would accept their own refund as a source for his money.

There are just too many simple ways to explain ten grand

And then once winning a few W2G payments it's off to the races



The IRS may ďbelieveĒ that there are no offsetting losses to the W2Gs but the feds will not. So Iím not sure youíve accomplished one of the main goals of laundering the money.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
vegas
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July 14th, 2021 at 11:30:30 AM permalink
8 years Coach has been here playing these same games yet you guys keep answering these repeated questions. He is trolling you and his game will continue as long as he has people to control.
50-50-90 Rule: Anytime you have a 50-50 chance of getting something right, there is a 90% probability you'll get it wrong
MDawg
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July 14th, 2021 at 11:31:09 AM permalink
Correct UnJon, and in any case it's not 10000 that he has to launder but 150000.

If the drug dealer has all that going for him, some sort of front business or income, he wouldn't need to resort to something as risky as trying to launder 150000 cash in a casino.
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darkoz
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July 14th, 2021 at 11:33:55 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg

Correct UnJon, and in any case it's not 10000 that he has to launder but 150000.

If the drug dealer has all that going for him, some sort of front business or income, he wouldn't need to resort to something as risky as trying to launder 150000 cash in a casino.



It's risky to win Jackpots?
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MDawg
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July 14th, 2021 at 11:35:27 AM permalink
It's not productive to carry this on, if you're not going to accept that simply showing some winnings is insufficient to negate that along the way a record of inputted CASH will also be created.
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
darkoz
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July 14th, 2021 at 11:36:08 AM permalink
Quote: unJon

Quote: darkoz

Quote: MDawg

How many CTRs or SARs will he receive during this process? Will he be guilty of structuring for trying to input deliberately under 10K cash per 24 hours? Will he be guilty of structuring if he runs around to different casinos deliberately trying to keep each casino's deposits under 10K per 24 hours?

What do his past tax returns look like? Has he ever even filed?

And we're not talking about 10000 (or more) income, we're talking 10000 or more, cash. honey baby, it's hard to convince a jury you found it in a taxicab.



I suspect a drug dealer is resourceful enough to pay a local business owner to say he made some wages.

Ten grand just isn't that hard to prove.

Most likely the drug dealer will then claim kids on a tax return (he may even legit have kids) and he gets close to ten gees in child care credit. And I am pretty certain the IRS would accept their own refund as a source for his money.

There are just too many simple ways to explain ten grand

And then once winning a few W2G payments it's off to the races



The IRS may ďbelieveĒ that there are no offsetting losses to the W2Gs but the feds will not. So Iím not sure youíve accomplished one of the main goals of laundering the money.



Absent any direct drug evidence, you are saying the Feds would not accept legitimate W2G income that was taxed by the United States government?

Wouldn't that put the Feds into the position of having to prove beyond a reasonable doubt losses incurred? And how much?
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darkoz
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July 14th, 2021 at 11:42:34 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg

It's not productive to carry this on, if you're not going to accept that simply showing some winnings is insufficient to negate that along the way a record of inputted CASH will also be created.



I accept that.

I don't accept the amount you feel is necessary. Nor that a resourceful drug dealer can't account for it.

You simply don't need $150,000 to put into a slot to clean $150,000.

And as I said and you ignored, just a child care tax credit from the IRS can add up to ten gees.

Of course a rich boy like you wouldn't qualify for a child care credit so would have no idea how easy and smooth it is to account for ten gees
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coachbelly
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July 14th, 2021 at 11:50:23 AM permalink
Quote: vegas

8 years Coach has been here playing these same games yet you guys keep answering these repeated questions. He is trolling you and his game will continue as long as he has people to control.



Don't sweat it, they stop answering when they realize that they are wrong.
billryan
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July 14th, 2021 at 12:02:58 PM permalink
Quote: coachbelly

Don't sweat it, they stop answering when they realize that they are wrong.



Yeah, that's the ticket.!
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
unJon
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July 14th, 2021 at 12:05:42 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Quote: unJon

Quote: darkoz

Quote: MDawg

How many CTRs or SARs will he receive during this process? Will he be guilty of structuring for trying to input deliberately under 10K cash per 24 hours? Will he be guilty of structuring if he runs around to different casinos deliberately trying to keep each casino's deposits under 10K per 24 hours?

What do his past tax returns look like? Has he ever even filed?

And we're not talking about 10000 (or more) income, we're talking 10000 or more, cash. honey baby, it's hard to convince a jury you found it in a taxicab.



I suspect a drug dealer is resourceful enough to pay a local business owner to say he made some wages.

Ten grand just isn't that hard to prove.

Most likely the drug dealer will then claim kids on a tax return (he may even legit have kids) and he gets close to ten gees in child care credit. And I am pretty certain the IRS would accept their own refund as a source for his money.

There are just too many simple ways to explain ten grand

And then once winning a few W2G payments it's off to the races



The IRS may ďbelieveĒ that there are no offsetting losses to the W2Gs but the feds will not. So Iím not sure youíve accomplished one of the main goals of laundering the money.



Absent any direct drug evidence, you are saying the Feds would not accept legitimate W2G income that was taxed by the United States government?

Wouldn't that put the Feds into the position of having to prove beyond a reasonable doubt losses incurred? And how much?



You keep thinking about courts and trials and evidence. Thatís missing the point.

Why does a drug dealer want to launder money?
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
darkoz
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July 14th, 2021 at 12:07:40 PM permalink
Quote: coachbelly

Don't sweat it, they stop answering when they realize that they are wrong.



Lol, that's precisely what you do actually.

For example you never answered the question what a casino is more likely to do when a stranger comes in betting ten grand a hand.

A) surround him with security for being suspect

B) Send a host to greet their new favorite customer.

Of course if you answered that correctly you would be admitting you are wrong so true to form you just ignored it.
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darkoz
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July 14th, 2021 at 12:09:52 PM permalink
Quote: unJon

Quote: darkoz

Quote: unJon

Quote: darkoz

Quote: MDawg

How many CTRs or SARs will he receive during this process? Will he be guilty of structuring for trying to input deliberately under 10K cash per 24 hours? Will he be guilty of structuring if he runs around to different casinos deliberately trying to keep each casino's deposits under 10K per 24 hours?

What do his past tax returns look like? Has he ever even filed?

And we're not talking about 10000 (or more) income, we're talking 10000 or more, cash. honey baby, it's hard to convince a jury you found it in a taxicab.



I suspect a drug dealer is resourceful enough to pay a local business owner to say he made some wages.

Ten grand just isn't that hard to prove.

Most likely the drug dealer will then claim kids on a tax return (he may even legit have kids) and he gets close to ten gees in child care credit. And I am pretty certain the IRS would accept their own refund as a source for his money.

There are just too many simple ways to explain ten grand

And then once winning a few W2G payments it's off to the races



The IRS may ďbelieveĒ that there are no offsetting losses to the W2Gs but the feds will not. So Iím not sure youíve accomplished one of the main goals of laundering the money.



Absent any direct drug evidence, you are saying the Feds would not accept legitimate W2G income that was taxed by the United States government?

Wouldn't that put the Feds into the position of having to prove beyond a reasonable doubt losses incurred? And how much?



You keep thinking about courts and trials and evidence. Thatís missing the point.

Why does a drug dealer want to launder money?



I don't understand.

If the courts, trials and evidence aren't coming into play then what does a drug dealer care?
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
unJon
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July 14th, 2021 at 12:11:15 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Quote: unJon

Quote: darkoz

Quote: unJon

Quote: darkoz

Quote: MDawg

How many CTRs or SARs will he receive during this process? Will he be guilty of structuring for trying to input deliberately under 10K cash per 24 hours? Will he be guilty of structuring if he runs around to different casinos deliberately trying to keep each casino's deposits under 10K per 24 hours?

What do his past tax returns look like? Has he ever even filed?

And we're not talking about 10000 (or more) income, we're talking 10000 or more, cash. honey baby, it's hard to convince a jury you found it in a taxicab.



I suspect a drug dealer is resourceful enough to pay a local business owner to say he made some wages.

Ten grand just isn't that hard to prove.

Most likely the drug dealer will then claim kids on a tax return (he may even legit have kids) and he gets close to ten gees in child care credit. And I am pretty certain the IRS would accept their own refund as a source for his money.

There are just too many simple ways to explain ten grand

And then once winning a few W2G payments it's off to the races



The IRS may ďbelieveĒ that there are no offsetting losses to the W2Gs but the feds will not. So Iím not sure youíve accomplished one of the main goals of laundering the money.



Absent any direct drug evidence, you are saying the Feds would not accept legitimate W2G income that was taxed by the United States government?

Wouldn't that put the Feds into the position of having to prove beyond a reasonable doubt losses incurred? And how much?



You keep thinking about courts and trials and evidence. Thatís missing the point.

Why does a drug dealer want to launder money?



I don't understand.

If the courts, trials and evidence aren't coming into play then what does a drug dealer care?



Well thatís my question to you. Why does a drug dealer want to launder money? Once we know the reasons we can test how successful a stack of W2Gs is in meeting that ďwhyĒ.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
coachbelly
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July 14th, 2021 at 12:17:29 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Lol, that's precisely what you do actually.

For example you never answered the question what a casino is more likely to do when a stranger comes in betting ten grand a hand.

A) surround him with security for being suspect

B) Send a host to greet their new favorite customer.

Of course if you answered that correctly you would be admitting you are wrong so true to form you just ignored it.



Was I required to answer either the A or B answers that you provided?

Besides, you're introducing facts not in evidence...that wasn't the question you asked.

I did answer the question that you asked, which is below....

Quote: darkoz

Here is a question for you Coach and the rest of the people in this discussion

It's a guess the casino reaction question.

A man walks into a casino and inserts $10,000 into an E-Craps or E-roulette game and makes a $10,000 wager.

Does the Casino

A) surround him with security guards and ask what is he doing?

B) send a host to introduce himself to their new favorite high roller?



It's plain to see that you didn't ask "what a casino is more likely to do",
so now go ahead and admit that you are wrong.
darkoz
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July 14th, 2021 at 12:18:37 PM permalink
Quote: unJon

Quote: darkoz

Quote: unJon

Quote: darkoz

Quote: unJon

Quote: darkoz

Quote: MDawg

How many CTRs or SARs will he receive during this process? Will he be guilty of structuring for trying to input deliberately under 10K cash per 24 hours? Will he be guilty of structuring if he runs around to different casinos deliberately trying to keep each casino's deposits under 10K per 24 hours?

What do his past tax returns look like? Has he ever even filed?

And we're not talking about 10000 (or more) income, we're talking 10000 or more, cash. honey baby, it's hard to convince a jury you found it in a taxicab.



I suspect a drug dealer is resourceful enough to pay a local business owner to say he made some wages.

Ten grand just isn't that hard to prove.

Most likely the drug dealer will then claim kids on a tax return (he may even legit have kids) and he gets close to ten gees in child care credit. And I am pretty certain the IRS would accept their own refund as a source for his money.

There are just too many simple ways to explain ten grand

And then once winning a few W2G payments it's off to the races



The IRS may ďbelieveĒ that there are no offsetting losses to the W2Gs but the feds will not. So Iím not sure youíve accomplished one of the main goals of laundering the money.



Absent any direct drug evidence, you are saying the Feds would not accept legitimate W2G income that was taxed by the United States government?

Wouldn't that put the Feds into the position of having to prove beyond a reasonable doubt losses incurred? And how much?



You keep thinking about courts and trials and evidence. Thatís missing the point.

Why does a drug dealer want to launder money?



I don't understand.

If the courts, trials and evidence aren't coming into play then what does a drug dealer care?



Well thatís my question to you. Why does a drug dealer want to launder money? Once we know the reasons we can test how successful a stack of W2Gs is in meeting that ďwhyĒ.



He wants to account for where a certain level of income came from.

Are there other reasons?
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unJon
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July 14th, 2021 at 12:25:51 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Quote: unJon

Quote: darkoz

Quote: unJon

Quote: darkoz

Quote: unJon

Quote: darkoz

Quote: MDawg

How many CTRs or SARs will he receive during this process? Will he be guilty of structuring for trying to input deliberately under 10K cash per 24 hours? Will he be guilty of structuring if he runs around to different casinos deliberately trying to keep each casino's deposits under 10K per 24 hours?

What do his past tax returns look like? Has he ever even filed?

And we're not talking about 10000 (or more) income, we're talking 10000 or more, cash. honey baby, it's hard to convince a jury you found it in a taxicab.



I suspect a drug dealer is resourceful enough to pay a local business owner to say he made some wages.

Ten grand just isn't that hard to prove.

Most likely the drug dealer will then claim kids on a tax return (he may even legit have kids) and he gets close to ten gees in child care credit. And I am pretty certain the IRS would accept their own refund as a source for his money.

There are just too many simple ways to explain ten grand

And then once winning a few W2G payments it's off to the races



The IRS may ďbelieveĒ that there are no offsetting losses to the W2Gs but the feds will not. So Iím not sure youíve accomplished one of the main goals of laundering the money.



Absent any direct drug evidence, you are saying the Feds would not accept legitimate W2G income that was taxed by the United States government?

Wouldn't that put the Feds into the position of having to prove beyond a reasonable doubt losses incurred? And how much?



You keep thinking about courts and trials and evidence. Thatís missing the point.

Why does a drug dealer want to launder money?



I don't understand.

If the courts, trials and evidence aren't coming into play then what does a drug dealer care?



Well thatís my question to you. Why does a drug dealer want to launder money? Once we know the reasons we can test how successful a stack of W2Gs is in meeting that ďwhyĒ.



He wants to account for where a certain level of income came from.

Are there other reasons?



To whom? A jury? A judge? The feds? The IRS?

If the answer is the IRS, then I think a stack of W2Gs works fine. If the answer is the Feds, then I donít think it works so well.
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AxelWolf
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July 14th, 2021 at 12:27:18 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg

It's absurd for anyone to claim that you could go to a table game OR slot machine, deposit cash, not win anything at all or not play at all, and then go get a check for the cash you deposited. Anyone who claims otherwise should be ignored in entirety. That would be straight money laundering conversion of cash to casino check.


Some research that should be done as well, as far as this idea of taking $150K cash to a casino and laundering it via slot play, hoping to win and get W2-Gs, is the threshold minimum dollar amount for which a casino will issue a check? I play table games only, so my winning checks have always been $5K or higher, but will a casino issue a winning check at slots for say, just a few hundred dollars?

What I am getting at is:
Drug Dealer goes to casino with $150K cash.
Plays slots.
Wouldn't he first of all have to play somewhat big just to get enough jackpots to harvest some W2-Gs? And if he is playing that hard, then stands to reason he will end up receiving a CTR or SAR for the cash input. Any CTRs or SARs received will defeat the purpose of the money laundering exercise as there will be a record of cash input.
And if he plays small, and doesn't get any W2-Gs, just smaller win tickets, is the cage even going to issue a check to him for those smaller win payouts? Maybe absent a big (above W2-G threshold) win the casino won't even be able to verify that there was a win, and will not issue a check at all for those slot tickets, which would represent a combination of cash input and winnings. Or, even if they are able to figure out what portion of the slot ticket is cash input and winnings, will they issue such small denomination checks?
Notwithstanding that according to DarkOz he wants REPORTED winnings, so these small win tickets aren't going to help him in that respect.

Again, keep in mind, the cage will never issue a check for anything other than the winning portion. The casino will not lend itself to straight money laundering of the cash deposited absent a win.

No one said this is a good way to launder money or something one should attempt to do or readily available at scores of places. You were using words like, IMPOSSIBLE. And yet, it's not impossible.

Minus asking for a check (and I could have received one had I asked, but there was no reason for me to want one) I have received a W2G's for Handpay Jackpots where I simply inserted money and cashed out. There is at least one occasion where a handful of other Advantage Players were there who witnessed this.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
coachbelly
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July 14th, 2021 at 12:33:13 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

a handful of other Advantage Players were there who witnessed this.



Yeah right.

Quote: AxelWolf

I have had to fight them to not give me a W2G for accumulated credits.



I'm willing to witness it too...so let's go!
100xOdds
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July 14th, 2021 at 12:37:04 PM permalink
Quote: unJon

You keep thinking about courts and trials and evidence. Thatís missing the point.

Why does a drug dealer want to launder money?

arent banks only required to report big cash deposits of $10k+?
Why cant the drug dealer deposit $9900/week into his bank acct?
Last edited by: 100xOdds on Jul 14, 2021
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AxelWolf
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July 14th, 2021 at 12:37:50 PM permalink
Quote: coachbelly

As long as I can witness what you claim to be able to do, then yes I am.

As long as the money is worth my total displeasure of having to meet and deal with you. And I know I'm guaranteed to be paid, then let's do it.

Let me how much are you willing to put up in escrow and we can go from there.


We don't need a bunch of bullshit other than knowing I get paid if I succeed. I say that I can put money into a slot/VP/E-table machine, cash out, get a W2G and then receive a check for that amount.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
AxelWolf
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July 14th, 2021 at 12:38:18 PM permalink
Coach: As long as the money is worth my total displeasure of having to meet and deal with you. And, I know I'm guaranteed to be paid WHEN I succeed, then let's do it.

Let me how much are you willing to put up in escrow and we can go from there.


We don't need a bunch of bullshit other than knowing I get paid if I succeed or you get paid if I fail.

I say that I can put money into a slot/VP/E-table machine, cash out, get a W2G and then receive a check for that amount.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
coachbelly
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July 14th, 2021 at 12:39:47 PM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

Why cant the drug dealer deposit $9900/week into his bank acct?



That's called structuring, the bank would pick up on it and report it.

Google it, there are plenty of news stories about folks caught structuring.
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July 14th, 2021 at 12:45:23 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

I say that I can put money into a slot/VP/E-table machine, cash out, get a W2G and then receive a check for that amount.



I'm not going to give you the opportunity to set something up in advance, which you've explained is how you operate.

If we can pick the casino at random, then you can name the bet.

The displeasure of meeting will be all mine.
AxelWolf
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July 14th, 2021 at 12:49:37 PM permalink
Quote: coachbelly

I'm not going to give you the opportunity to set something up in advance, which you've explained is how you operate.

If we can pick the casino at random, then you can name the bet.

The displeasure will be all mine.

You obviously read my post where I said: No one said this is a good way to launder money or something one should attempt to do or readily available at scores of places.

People looking to do this for whatever reason would obviously target places they know it can be done and not just
go to random places.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
AxelWolf
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July 14th, 2021 at 12:53:27 PM permalink
Quote: coachbelly

I'm not going to give you the opportunity to set something up in advance, which you've explained is how you operate.

Please quote and show where I have explained that's how I operate.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
coachbelly
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July 14th, 2021 at 12:57:07 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

People looking to do this for whatever reason would obviously target places
they know it can be done and not just go to random places.



Then we are left with you spinning a yarn with zero explanation or corroboration.

I don't believe you.

Yesterday you were fighting not to get a W2G, today you have witnesses who saw you get one.

Or do you have witnesses? Who knows?
coachbelly
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July 14th, 2021 at 12:59:25 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Please quote and show where I have explained that's how I operate.



My understanding is that it's not permitted to do that here,
but you've written about confederates front-loading must hit-bys or multipliers
in order to win a bet...haven't you?
darkoz
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July 14th, 2021 at 1:03:51 PM permalink
Quote: unJon

Quote: darkoz

Quote: unJon

Quote: darkoz

Quote: unJon

Quote: darkoz

Quote: unJon

Quote: darkoz

Quote: MDawg

How many CTRs or SARs will he receive during this process? Will he be guilty of structuring for trying to input deliberately under 10K cash per 24 hours? Will he be guilty of structuring if he runs around to different casinos deliberately trying to keep each casino's deposits under 10K per 24 hours?

What do his past tax returns look like? Has he ever even filed?

And we're not talking about 10000 (or more) income, we're talking 10000 or more, cash. honey baby, it's hard to convince a jury you found it in a taxicab.



I suspect a drug dealer is resourceful enough to pay a local business owner to say he made some wages.

Ten grand just isn't that hard to prove.

Most likely the drug dealer will then claim kids on a tax return (he may even legit have kids) and he gets close to ten gees in child care credit. And I am pretty certain the IRS would accept their own refund as a source for his money.

There are just too many simple ways to explain ten grand

And then once winning a few W2G payments it's off to the races



The IRS may ďbelieveĒ that there are no offsetting losses to the W2Gs but the feds will not. So Iím not sure youíve accomplished one of the main goals of laundering the money.



Absent any direct drug evidence, you are saying the Feds would not accept legitimate W2G income that was taxed by the United States government?

Wouldn't that put the Feds into the position of having to prove beyond a reasonable doubt losses incurred? And how much?



You keep thinking about courts and trials and evidence. Thatís missing the point.

Why does a drug dealer want to launder money?



I don't understand.

If the courts, trials and evidence aren't coming into play then what does a drug dealer care?



Well thatís my question to you. Why does a drug dealer want to launder money? Once we know the reasons we can test how successful a stack of W2Gs is in meeting that ďwhyĒ.



He wants to account for where a certain level of income came from.

Are there other reasons?



To whom? A jury? A judge? The feds? The IRS?

If the answer is the IRS, then I think a stack of W2Gs works fine. If the answer is the Feds, then I donít think it works so well.



Definitely the IRS.

Why would Feds get involved unless they already have some suspicion about drug dealing as a source of income?

Assuming the drug dealer had managed to stay under the radar and his only concern was how to account for money as he spends it, then he could gamble, win W2G as proof of income source.

I don't see Feds getting involved as to source credibility just on a whim.

If OTOH they already have some credible proof of dealing drugs as income source then no it wouldn't work.
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AxelWolf
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July 14th, 2021 at 1:07:49 PM permalink
Quote: coachbelly

My understanding is that it's not permitted to do that here,
but you've written about confederates front-loading must hit-bys or multipliers
in order to win a bet...haven't you?

I have? PM me a link and show me where I have said this. I do not believe I have ever frontloaded for... or had anyone frontload for me on a machine. I doubt there is any place where I claimed to have done that.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
coachbelly
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July 14th, 2021 at 1:11:58 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

I have? PM me a link and show me where I have said this. I do not believe I have ever frontloaded for... or had anyone frontload for me on a machine. I doubt there is any place where I claimed to have done that.



It will take some time to find that, you have like 40 thousand posts to review.

Set a deadline, so I don't have to deal with you non-stop bugging me about it.
coachbelly
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July 14th, 2021 at 1:14:30 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Assuming the drug dealer had managed to stay under the radar and his only concern was how to account for money as he spends it, then he could gamble, win W2G as proof of income source.



That seems like uninformed speculation on your part.

Quote: AlanMendelson

In BOTH cases the auditors did not even look at my casino records. When my accountant asked why they were ignored the auditors responded "our position is no one has a profit from casinos."

billryan
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July 14th, 2021 at 1:19:08 PM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

arent banks required to report big cash deposits of $10k+?
Why cant the drug dealer deposit $9900/week into his bank acct?



Making a series of deposits like that would be considered structuring and a computer algorithm is supposed to pick it up. The government can freeze any bank account and you'd be called in for a friendly chat. Structuring will produce a SAR which is much worse than depositing the $10,000 and getting a routine Currency Transaction report. SARs are supposed to be followed up on while the currency reports are filed away, to perhaps be used at a later date. Banks file thousands of CRTs each day. They only are scary to the uninitiated.

Suspicious Activity Reports- bad and to be avoided.
Currency Transaction Reports- routine and may establish a paper trail that usually ends up buried away
Last edited by: billryan on Jul 14, 2021
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July 14th, 2021 at 1:20:49 PM permalink
Quote: coachbelly

It will take some time to find that, you have like 40 thousand posts to review.

Set a deadline, so I don't have to deal with you non-stop bugging me about it.

Look all you want, you won't find it. I'm certain you are confused.

If you are going to make a statement like that you then you should back it up, or apologize for being wrong.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
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July 14th, 2021 at 1:25:12 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Look all you want, you won't find it. I'm certain you are confused.

If you are going to make a statement like that you then you should back it up, or apologize for being wrong.



I'll look, but are you sure that you haven't written about front-loading must hits or multipliers or some other methods of using confederates to set up and win a "prove I can win at the machines" type bet?

I'm not saying that you admitted to doing that, only that you are aware of it and have written about it.
AxelWolf
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July 14th, 2021 at 2:03:44 PM permalink
Quote: coachbelly

I'll look, but are you sure that you haven't written about front-loading must hits or multipliers or some other methods of using confederates to set up and win a "prove I can win at the machines" type bet?

I'm not saying that you admitted to doing that, only that you are aware of it and have written about it.

I'm sure it has been mentioned before in the context of talking about other groups/people/ creators etc as an option that could be used by someone but that's not how you presented it, you presented it as me operating in that manner.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
AlanMendelson
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July 14th, 2021 at 2:09:53 PM permalink
Several years ago I made a whopper of a cash deposit at a Bank of America here in Vegas after a big win. I was asked for certain information for the CTR.

What troubled me is that the bank DID NOT ask where the cash came from. I wanted them to know that it came from CASINO WINNINGS because i knew i had losses to offset this win on my taxes.

The bank didnt want to hear anything about the casino. What they wanted was my BUSINESS INFO. And ONLY my business info was entered on the CTR.

This worried me, because I was afraid that this large cash deposit would raise red flags about my business and I was not going to include this large cash transaction as business income.

For that year I did report a loss on gambling and there were no repercussions. This happened more than five years ago.

So a question: have any of you actually had a CTR filed after depositing a large cash casino win and did your bank ask you about the casino and record the casino as the source of the cash??
Mission146
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July 14th, 2021 at 2:16:09 PM permalink
What is the purpose of this thread, anyway? That's kind of a question for MDawg. Assuming that none of us here are laundering money through a casino or work in a casino position where we might care about such a thing, what benefit does this thread have?

It's mostly just arguing about stupid crap that's not going to apply to any of us, at least, over the last several pages.

As far as the bet with Axelwolf and Coach Belly that will probably never happen, you guys should hammer out the details in a PM and---if you come to some sort of agreement for a bet---both can come back to the thread and each post that you agree to a certain set of terms, which then can be stated, verbatim, in each of your posts.

Here and there, provably wrong statements have been made that have been set straight. One example is the notion that someone with a net loss on slots for the day could not get a check after hitting a W2G, which to his credit, MDawg eventually admitted that he's out of his element on that one. There was also the notion that there wouldn't be a relatively low-risk mechanism by which W2-Gs could be hit and that notion is pretty clearly wrong.

As far as the rest of this goes, I tend to believe that most of the participants in this thread (myself included) might as well be the guys in Office Space looking up money laundering in the dictionary. Like asking, "Would that work?" "Would the IRS not dig a little deeper into that?" How the hell would any of us know!? Even if one of us did know, fair chance it would be from practice, so it's not like he would admit it!
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
darkoz
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July 14th, 2021 at 3:28:55 PM permalink
Obviously the easiest way to launder money is to leave a wad of cash in your pockets when at the laundromat.

Just make certain you use a bottle of Gain. The green box!
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Mission146
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July 14th, 2021 at 7:17:09 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Obviously the easiest way to launder money is to leave a wad of cash in your pockets when at the laundromat.

Just make certain you use a bottle of Gain. The green box!



My allergies make Gain -EV, unless they have a free and clear.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
AxelWolf
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July 14th, 2021 at 9:51:46 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

What is the purpose of this thread, anyway? That's kind of a question for MDawg. Assuming that none of us here are laundering money through a casino or work in a casino position where we might care about such a thing, what benefit does this thread have?

It's mostly just arguing about stupid crap that's not going to apply to any of us, at least, over the last several pages.

As far as the bet with Axelwolf and Coach Belly that will probably never happen, you guys should hammer out the details in a PM and---if you come to some sort of agreement for a bet---both can come back to the thread and each post that you agree to a certain set of terms, which then can be stated, verbatim, in each of your posts.

Here and there, provably wrong statements have been made that have been set straight. One example is the notion that someone with a net loss on slots for the day could not get a check after hitting a W2G, which to his credit, MDawg eventually admitted that he's out of his element on that one. There was also the notion that there wouldn't be a relatively low-risk mechanism by which W2-Gs could be hit and that notion is pretty clearly wrong.

As far as the rest of this goes, I tend to believe that most of the participants in this thread (myself included) might as well be the guys in Office Space looking up money laundering in the dictionary. Like asking, "Would that work?" "Would the IRS not dig a little deeper into that?" How the hell would any of us know!? Even if one of us did know, fair chance it would be from practice, so it's not like he would admit it!

I think someone may have said something about Mdawg possibly laundering money for someone, or something like that. Thus the reason for the thread trying to debunk the possibility.


As far as a bet with coach goes:
As soon as I suggested it was not something readily available he then used that as a way to back out and suggested a random casino.

I think it's obvious to anyone with some casino knowledge that it is not a standard everyday thing, so there would be no bet if it had to be a random casino since it is a rare thing. My original statement was in regards to MD using the word IMPOSSIBLE.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

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