Casino Anti Money Laundering and Compliance
Quote: coachbellyfrequently...sometimes...never...who can keep up?
Yeah, why can’t everything in life be an absolute, right? It would make things much easier.
Quote: Mission146Bet Red, bet all the black numbers for the same amount total.
I'm not keeping up...is what you wrote above the same as what you wrote below?
Quote: Mission146You’d have to go $150 on all Even Money bets
Quote: coachbellyI'm not keeping up...is what you wrote above the same as what you wrote below?
No, you introduced a way that what I wrote would not work, so I offered an alternative way to do it.
Quote: Mission146There was no dispute
OK then...so much for guarantees...
Quote: coachbellyOK then...so much for guarantees...
Yeah, that’s why I disagreed with his post, if that was unclear.
Quote: Mission146I was using a personal experience to disagree that what Darkoz implied is 100% the case. There was no dispute. There was a dispute with that lady AFTER that plan failed. LOL
It's possible you were already ID'd due to your being 86'd.
But Casinos are inconsistent, we can agree. And nothing in this world is ever 100%.
I know some Casinos are automatically alerted when a jackpot is won and some aren't. It's possible this may affect being able to switch seats
Quote: coachbellyAnd haven't you attracted unwanted attention to yourself in the casinos, with whatever antics you use to run in circles?
Not for switching seats at a jackpot and not for betting red/black at Roulette. Never!
Using other people players cards is only thing to attract attention
Caught twice in nine years. I feel I have done pretty well all things considered.
EDIT: Well three times but I don't count the third time. It was unusual circumstances
Quote: Mission146No, you introduced a way that what I wrote would not work, so I offered an alternative way to do it.
Do you mean that your initial explanation...which you insisted was asked and answered...that at player could bet both black and red on the same spin...was incorrect?
I'm trying to keep up, but I think I'm getting the run-around, and then being blamed for something.
Not that it matters, because this is a stupid and pointless conversation.
Perhaps one day I will figure out what the hell is wrong with me that I would waste the better part of an evening participating in such a line of conversation, but probably not.
In any event, while this has been a lamentable waste of time that I will never get back, I do politely bid you good night.
Quote: darkozIt's possible you were already ID'd due to your being 86'd.
But Casinos are inconsistent, we can agree. And nothing in this world is ever 100%.
I know some Casinos are automatically alerted when a jackpot is won and some aren't. It's possible this may affect being able to switch seats
Possible, but doubtful. I vultured there with impunity with some frequency. I think your last paragraph is the most likely theory.
They paid, in any case, and then I had to leave.
Quote: darkozNot for switching seats at a jackpot and not for betting red/black at Roulette. Never!
Not as far as you know.
Is that a guarantee?
Quote: coachbellyDo you mean that your initial explanation...which you insisted was asked and answered...that at player could bet both black and red on the same spin...was incorrect?
I'm trying to keep up, but I think I'm getting the run-around, and then being blamed for something.
As I understood the original question, I was answering how it could be done to the best of my knowledge and on games that I have seen.
If there was once an ability to make offsetting even money bets that is no longer the case, then I will admit to not being aware of that. You’ll forgive me if I never have a reason to make offsetting even money bets on electronic roulette to be able to know from personal experience.
Anyway, I am now aware of your standard of proof and will address your posts accordingly, or if I suddenly decide to behave intelligently, not address your posts at all. In any event, assuming I remember to do so, I will report on the game, casino, date, time and bets required to satisfy the demands of the original question.
Quote: darkozHe isn't cleaning ten grand. He is running ten grand through the slots, accruing a total of $150,000 in Jackpots.
He has effectively cleaned $150,000 because he now has proof be won it!!!
And if his goal is to legitimize his income then, yeah he has to pay taxes on it
I won it! isn't enough to rinse dirty money if the source of the money used with which to gamble is itself unverified, unverifiable or in question. In the old days, maybe, but nowadays no casino is going to allow anyone to rinse tons of cash through it without throwing up red flags as to its source, including via CTRs and SARs. And if the drug dealer from your example is being careful to rinse just under 10K per 24 hours, he may get a SAR, and as well be guilty of structuring.
I think DarkOz tends to put blinders on with some of his arguments and doesn't look at the clearer, bigger picture - which, in this case, is simply that the source of the cash is going to be questioned at some point.
Quote: MDawgI won it! isn't enough to rinse dirty money if the source of the money used with which to gamble is itself unverified, unverifiable or in question. In the old days, maybe, but nowadays no casino is going to allow anyone to rinse tons of cash through it without throwing up red flags as to its source, including via CTRs and SARs.
Except for that time a casino let markers get paid off with checks drawn on a charity account.
And likely some non-zero number of instances we don’t know about.
Operator Of Venetian Resort In Las Vegas Agrees To Return Over $47 Million After Receiving Money Under Suspicious Circumstances
The Las Vegas Sands Corp., which operates the Venetian-Palazzo hotel complex in Las Vegas, has agreed to return $47,400,300 to conclude an investigation into the casino’s failure to alert authorities that a high-stakes gambler, who was later linked to international drug trafficking, made numerous large and suspicious deposits with the casino.
Las Vegas Sands agrees to $2 million fine from Nevada gaming regulators
Las Vegas Sands Corp. has agreed to pay a $2 million state fine due to previous federal-level allegations of accounting violations in China and anti-money-laundering failures in Las Vegas.
Quote: MDawgThat won't happen these days. As noted in my original post, Nevada casinos these days will not allow incoming payments, or front money other than from the player itself or from an entity verified as being owned solely by the player. Venetian was tagged for that offense a couple of times that I know of.
Operator Of Venetian Resort In Las Vegas Agrees To Return Over $47 Million After Receiving Money Under Suspicious Circumstances
Las Vegas Sands agrees to $2 million fine from Nevada gaming regulators
This was, like, four years ago! Maybe five.
Quote: unJonWhy would a money launderer hide his identity from the casino? He or she needs to get W2Gs in his or her name?
Why does he need W2Gs? That's where this whole nonsense goes off the track.
Quote: billryanWhy does he need W2Gs? That's where this whole nonsense goes off the track.
This conversation was on a track once? Can you buy a train ticket to Hell? Is it Amtrak?
A federal lawsuit, filed by the CIBC in 1982, contended that Caesars officials induced Molony to gamble even though they knew—or should have known—that the money could not possibly have been his. CIBC's counsel initially stated that he hoped to recover some $4,732,000 that Molony lost at Caesars from February 7, 1981 to April 23, 1982; the terms of the settlement are private. As part of an agreement between the casino and the state Division of Gaming Enforcement, Caesars was forced to close for a day on November 30, the Saturday after Thanksgiving, as a disciplinary measure. The New Jersey Casino Control Commission also levied $36,500 in fines against six Caesars employees. Industry analysts estimated that the casino stood to lose between $700,000 and $800,000 because of the shutdown.
Quote: MDawgNo one wants to be shut down for another Malony Day.
See, your assumption is that nobody wants to commit such acts again. My assumption is those inclined want to do a better job of not getting caught.
Is someone still trying to say that it would be "easy" to money launder $150K in cash through a casino? without being flagged or reported to authorities such as the Dept. of Treasury?
I need to take a second break now - gym.
Quote: MDawgSummarize for me please what was going on in this thread while I was at the tables winning twenty plus large.
Is someone still trying to say that it would be "easy" to money launder $150K in cash through a casino? without being flagged or reported to authorities such as the Dept. of Treasury?
I need to take a second break now - gym.
I have questioned my existence more than once and my continued sobriety at least a dozen times.
If using cash you also aren't stuffing 10k into a machine at once. It's typically done a thousand or so at a time over the course of several hours while you curse variance and ponder whether you could have made better life choices.
Quote: MDawgSummarize for me please what was going on in this thread while I was at the tables winning twenty plus large.
Is there any purpose to this statement other than bragging?
Excuse me while I go start my 7th session of the day of hot sex with my ex-model wife.
Quote: MDawgNo one wants to be shut down for another Molony Day.
A federal lawsuit, filed by the CIBC in 1982, contended that Caesars officials induced Molony to gamble even though they knew—or should have known—that the money could not possibly have been his. CIBC's counsel initially stated that he hoped to recover some $4,732,000 that Molony lost at Caesars from February 7, 1981 to April 23, 1982; the terms of the settlement are private..
It's funny but this conversation brought to mind a different Molony.
In 1993, a bunch of my neighborhood wannabes lucked into the score of a lifetime. An insider with IRA ties helped them to rob an armored car with what was supposed to a $600,000 payroll. Instead, it contained as much as seven million dollars. What do you do with seven million dollars in twenties?
These guys kept $50,000 each and gave the rest to a rogue Catholic priest named Father George Molony who kept a series of safe houses for illegal immigrants and IRA members on the lamb. An FBI informer got into one of the safehouse and photographed a refrigerator stuffed with 20s. Arrests started, and a bunch of neighborhood mooks met untimely ends. It turned out one of the local barflies was an escaped IRA assassin who was one of the original blanketmen. He turned States Evidence and did a few years in prison before being deported back to Northern Island.
At his arraignment, Father Molony bragged that his supporters would raise whatever his bail was. The Judge set it at a million dollars cash and Father M walked out on bail that afternoon. He got four years in prison and is a neighborhood legend. Both the FBI and his fellow defendants agree he lied thru his teeth at trial. His brother John was arrested in a sting involving importing automatic rifles and stinger missiles . I wonder if they are related to Brian.?
When I moved from Queens in 2016, there was still about three million dollars never recovered.
Quote: coachbellyNot as far as you know.
Is that a guarantee?
Yes, it's a guarantee.
You forget or intentionally ignore that I have been privvy to dozens of internal documents from Casinos surveillance about me through litigation discovery.
I know every reason they felt I was suspicious and half of them weren't even correct.
That would only be the case for someome who doesn't know what they are doing, I have a feeling they both know how to force jackpots for whatever amount they wish for very little cost 0-10% and with absolutely no variance. In some circumstances, one could actually force jackpots AND have an advantage on top of it.Quote: MDawg
But have YOU Mission146, yourself personally sat at a slot machine on a given day, fed into it, say $8000. in cash, hit a jackpot of say $1500., and received it in a check in addition to a W2-G? if not, you just wrote a lot based on no personal experience.
.
It would be an easy task to guarantee 7 - 10 times your starting bankroll in taxables and the appearance of winnings and still remain well under any loss reporting triggers.
FYI, not all casinos want to issue you checks for average taxable jackpot amounts.
I think I saw that movie. The only thing I disagreed with was casting Al Roker as Father Maloney. But, you know, whatever. Meg Ryan was delightful as the love interest. And don't get me started on Jason Stratham.Quote: billryan
It's funny but this conversation brought to mind a different Molony. In 1993, a bunch of my neighborhood wannabes lucked into the score of a lifetime.
most of the time they are classified as slots.Quote: coachbellyThe entire discussion to this point has been about a player playing slot machines.
Now you are talking about confederates playing an E-Craps.
I don't believe that this is the scenario you were referring in your earlier posts....was it?
Anyway...do those betting conditions exist for E-Craps? Isn't there a betting limit?
Quote: JohnnyQI think I saw that movie. The only thing I disagreed with was casting Al Roker as Father Maloney. But, you know, whatever. Meg Ryan was delightful as the love interest. And don't get me started on Jason Stratham.
It was called "Owning Maloney"?
You can buy slot tickets at some casinos(I'm sure they track that).Quote: billryanHas anyone stuffed $10,000 into a machine? Is there a way to do it without putting 100 $100 ills into it one at a time?
I don't know if I have added 10K + into a machine at one time or not, I haven't made a point to notice, but I have put about 5k in played and then and added another 5k soon after.
yes.Quote: MDawgSummarize for me please what was going on in this thread while I was at the tables winning twenty plus large.
Is someone still trying to say that it would be "easy" to money launder $150K in cash through a casino? without being flagged or reported to authorities such as the Dept. of Treasury?
I need to take a second break now - gym.
It helps show proof how and why you now have x amount of money.Quote: billryanWhy does he need W2Gs? That's where this whole nonsense goes off the track.
I have no clue how well it would work, but I suspect someone could launder money via the casinos without ever having stepped foot in a casino. I dont know why someone couldn't just file as a professional gambler, keep a fake legitimate-looking logbook with daily larger wins than losses while claiming a yearly income, and pay taxes.
I have to guess there is lots of money laundering and transferring going on via offshore online poker rooms. Now you even have a computer record with proof of "winning" along with bank/check or crypto transfers of your "winnings"
It being easy is subjective and I'm without a time frame, but I think it would be easy to launder 150k through a casino without raising suspicion, especially if you were given 3 weeks.Quote: JohnnyQyes ?
edit to add: are people forgetting there are places like vegas that have hundreds of places to gamble?
Quote: billryanAren't they talking about playing 10,000 a spin?
LMAO
Bill has me blocked so now he only understands half the conversation.
Classic!
Quote: AxelWolfIt helps show proof how and why you now have x amount of money.
I have no clue how well it would work, but I suspect someone could launder money via the casinos without ever having stepped foot in a casino. I dont know why someone couldn't just file as a professional gambler, keep a fake legitimate-looking logbook with daily larger wins than losses while claiming a yearly income, and pay taxes.
I have to guess there is lots of money laundering and transferring going on via offshore online poker rooms. Now you even have a computer record with proof of "winning" along with bank/check or crypto transfers of your "winnings"
Except for the simple fact, there are thousands of easier ways to accomplish it, it seems like a brilliant idea.
Why this obsession with "winning?
John opens a business, selling item A for $100 each wholesale. Bob buys 1,000 of them and commits to 1,0000 a month for 18 months.
Pedro loves the product and signs a contract with Bob to buy all he can supply at $120 each. Harry wants some for his stores but the wholesaler(Bob) has committed all his supplies to Pedro, so Harry has to deal with Pedro and agrees to buy 1,000 a month for $1.50.
John goes to the bank and shows his contract with Bob and his accounts receivable of $1,000,000 a month and is granted a line of credit. Bob explains to his bankers that he'd like to retire and sell the business to his son. The Bank sees future contracts worth a million and a half a month and happily advances a month or twos worth of income to help the transition go smoothly. Harry is stuck. He has committed to buying a million and a half dollars worth of inventory that no one wants. In dire straits, he goes bankrupt.
Suddenly, Bobs' son lost his biggest and only customer and needs to file for bankruptcy. John calls his bank and apologetically explains he just lost his biggest customer and is going to have to shut down.
John walks away with whatever he tapped into his line of credit for, Bob walks away with the advance he got on the sale to his son,
Harry, hopelessly in debt declares bankruptcy.
Only John, Bob, Bobs Son and Harry were all registered corporations and in fact all belonged to the same shell company. They generated millions in invoices and account receivables, laundering millions and walking away with millions of the banks money to boot.
Just for giggles, the real owners send someone to Harry's bankruptcy auction where he buys Harrys' stock for pennies on the dollar, they register four new corporations and the next cycle begins.
Quote: JohnnyQI think I saw that movie. The only thing I disagreed with was casting Al Roker as Father Maloney. But, you know, whatever. Meg Ryan was delightful as the love interest. And don't get me started on Jason Stratham.
A reporter from the Times wrote a book about the robbery, and it generated some interest as a movie but I believe it is in developmental hell. The IRA guy who was deported wrote his supposed biography but most consider it a work of fiction. There are still several million dollars unaccounted for. Most likely sitting in a safety deposit box only its deceased owner knows about.
Sean Penn would be the perfect Father Molony.
Quote: billryanExcept for the simple fact, there are thousands of easier ways to accomplish it, it seems like a brilliant idea.
Why this obsession with "winning?
John opens a business, selling item A for $100 each wholesale. Bob buys 1,000 of them and commits to 1,0000 a month for 18 months.
Pedro loves the product and signs a contract with Bob to buy all he can supply at $120 each. Harry wants some for his stores but the wholesaler(Bob) has committed all his supplies to Pedro, so Harry has to deal with Pedro and agrees to buy 1,000 a month for $1.50.
John goes to the bank and shows his contract with Bob and his accounts receivable of $1,000,000 a month and is granted a line of credit. Bob explains to his bankers that he'd like to retire and sell the business to his son. The Bank sees future contracts worth a million and a half a month and happily advances a month or twos worth of income to help the transition go smoothly. Harry is stuck. He has committed to buying a million and a half dollars worth of inventory that no one wants. In dire straits, he goes bankrupt.
Suddenly, Bobs' son lost his biggest and only customer and needs to file for bankruptcy. John calls his bank and apologetically explains he just lost his biggest customer and is going to have to shut down.
John walks away with whatever he tapped into his line of credit for, Bob walks away with the advance he got on the sale to his son,
Harry, hopelessly in debt declares bankruptcy.
Only John, Bob, Bobs Son and Harry were all registered corporations and in fact all belonged to the same shell company. They generated millions in invoices and account receivables, laundering millions and walking away with millions of the banks money to boot.
Just for giggles, the real owners send someone to Harry's bankruptcy auction where he buys Harrys' stock for pennies on the dollar, they register four new corporations and the next cycle begins.
That's the "easy" way?
As far as I can remember, I have only been in one +EV situation where I found machines that allowed you to bet 10k per spin and it was advantageous to do so. Others on the crew would go first and by the time my wife and I were ready to get down, they shut the machines down.Quote: billryanAren't they talking about playing 10,000 a spin?
Within the last few years or so I have seen those types of where you can bet as much as 30k, I don't remember exactly how much, but it was a staggering amount.
Quote: AxelWolfThere are machines where you can simply put in bills and then cash out and then get a hand pay.
You can put bills into the machine, hit the cash out button without playing, and receive a handpay in the form of a check, and a W2G if you want one?
To be fair this is a casino and gambling forum, so it would make sense that's what we are talking about. let's see what the title is. Well, that makes perfect sense: CASINO ANTI MONEY LAUNDERING AND COMPLIANCEQuote: billryanExcept for the simple fact, there are thousands of easier ways to accomplish it, it seems like a brilliant idea.
Why this obsession with "winning?
John opens a business, selling item A for $100 each wholesale. Bob buys 1,000 of them and commits to 1,0000 a month for 18 months.
Pedro loves the product and signs a contract with Bob to buy all he can supply at $120 each. Harry wants some for his stores but the wholesaler(Bob) has committed all his supplies to Pedro, so Harry has to deal with Pedro and agrees to buy 1,000 a month for $1.50.
John goes to the bank and shows his contract with Bob and his accounts receivable of $1,000,000 a month and is granted a line of credit. Bob explains to his bankers that he'd like to retire and sell the business to his son. The Bank sees future contracts worth a million and a half a month and happily advances a month or twos worth of income to help the transition go smoothly. Harry is stuck. He has committed to buying a million and a half dollars worth of inventory that no one wants. In dire straits, he goes bankrupt.
Suddenly, Bobs' son lost his biggest and only customer and needs to file for bankruptcy. John calls his bank and apologetically explains he just lost his biggest customer and is going to have to shut down.
John walks away with whatever he tapped into his line of credit for, Bob walks away with the advance he got on the sale to his son,
Harry, hopelessly in debt declares bankruptcy.
Only John, Bob, Bobs Son and Harry were all registered corporations and in fact all belonged to the same shell company. They generated millions in invoices and account receivables, laundering millions and walking away with millions of the banks money to boot.
Just for giggles, the real owners send someone to Harry's bankruptcy auction where he buys Harrys' stock for pennies on the dollar, they register four new corporations and the next cycle begins.
Anyways, I dont know, I'm not a money-laundering expert and have no reason to launder money.
I would think the most important thing, aside from not getting caught while coming out with clean money would be to pay the least amount of taxes and vig on the money you want to launder.
What you described sounds a bit convoluted and it's hard to say what an investigation would uncover or how suspicious it might look. Perhaps it's easier for people to understand how and why money laundering works when it comes to gambling and casinos and the fact that there are different options available and you can do it solo without having to set up anything.
Let's not forget there are casinos across the world all with different kinds of regulations, some much laxer.
I'm sure there's are much easier/better ways to launder money than anyone here knows(I'm even thinking crypto), but this is a gambling and casino forum and that's what we are talking about.
p.s. They should have saved themselves all those steps because John and Bob are just going to lose all their laundered money on Bob's super-duper roulette betting system... AT THE CASINO.
Quote: sabreThinking that you need to have a net win to be issued a check at slots is absurd.
Does the amount of the check need to match the amount of the jackpot won for which a handpay is required?
For example, if you hit a $2K jackpot, and still have $2K in credits on the machine, will they issue a check for $4K and zero out your credits, if you request a check for that?
The simple answer is... YES, it can be done. And no, I'm not going to lay it out for you and add details. You don't deserve to know.Quote: coachbellyYou can put bills into the machine, hit the cash out button without playing, and receive a handpay in the form of a check, and a W2G if you want one?
Quote: billryanWhy would anyone want a W2-G? The idea of money laundering isn't to convert it to money you owe taxes on. It's to convert it to after-tax money without actually paying taxes on it.
Not in the case of illicit cash received for illegal activities.
You would want to convert that cash to taxable income.
If you spend the illicit cash, an investigation would show you to be living above your means.
Quote: AxelWolfThe simple answer is... YES, it can be done.
You are incorrect.
