Casino Anti Money Laundering and Compliance
Quote: billryanI'm sure criminals love working in an environment where cameras capture their every move.
I’m not sure what they were doing, it’s not even my story.
But I think you underestimate the stupidity of low level drug dealers and thieves. The number of people attempting to launder money in casinos, successful or not, is more than zero.
The entire point of cleaning the money is to BE IDENTIFIED.
Why are you arguing anyone playing to clean their money has to be worried about identification?
What would be the point of passing money through a slot machine to clean it and then NOT have it attributed to you?
The only aspect that is questionable is will there be a demand to know where the original cash to gamble with came from.
Again, in order to make $150,000 in wagers a drug dealer DOESN'T NEED $150,000. If he did that means he lost every penny of every single wager he made.
Ridiculous!
He only need ten grand, maybe twenty if he has a bad day. His winning Jackpots will feed him more cash.
The IRS doesn't even want to know how much was lost during play because that means less taxes for them. They want to claim you won every spin.
But no money launderer is walking in with $150,000 to put in the machine. They just need to walk out with $150,000 in W2G
Quote: gamerfreakI’m not sure what they were doing, it’s not even my story.
But I think you underestimate the stupidity of low level drug dealers and thieves. The number of people attempting to launder money in casinos, successful or not, is more than zero.
Combien is French for, “How much?”
I’ve done the same thing before because a wide variety of perfectly legal transactions led me to having a ridiculous number of twenties. Actually, one of those was a ticket redemption machine in a different casino giving me all twenties.
Anyway, I went to the next casino and…I forget if it was $500 or $1,000…but that’s how much in 100’s they’d let me trade my 20’s for. I then went and checked the vulture machines, which I would load with twenties (up to $100) when there was a play. If I lost on the machine, then I’d use twenties to bring the balance back over $100.
Having checked (and played, when applicable) all of the machines with advantageous situations, I then consolidated all of my tickets on the last machine, cashed out, then took my final ticket to the cage and got paid in mostly hundreds.
But have YOU Mission146, yourself personally sat at a slot machine on a given day, fed into it, say $8000. in cash, hit a jackpot of say $1500., and received it in a check in addition to a W2-G? if not, you just wrote a lot based on no personal experience.
It would seem that most of you are SLOTS players. Fine.
I know that at table games a check is issued against cashed in chips only for a NET win, or return of front money made via check or bank wire. And since I am a credit line player only, the only way I can get a check from table game play is for a net win.
Quote: MDawgYes I accept that a guy who has entered say fifteen grand in cash into a slot machine all day long who suddenly hits a jackpot for a million is going to receive a check and a W2-G.
But have YOU Mission146, yourself personally sat at a slot machine on a given day, fed into it, say $8000. in cash, hit a jackpot of say $1500., and received it in a check in addition to a W2-G? if not, you just wrote a lot based on no personal experience.
It would seem that most of you are SLOTS players. Fine.
I know that at table games a check is issued against cashed in chips only for a NET win, or return of front money made via check or bank wire. And since I am a credit line player only, the only way I can get a check from table game play is for a net win.
I have not, but I have personally witnessed someone who had a losing play on a particular progressive machine receive a W2-G, and a check that he requested, when it finally hit.
It also occurs to me that, being a high-roller who plays mostly in high-limit, being well comped, being able to draw markers and having a host would likely lead to your transactions being scrutinized more closely than many other players.
At table games they track the incoming and outgoing carefully and if the table doesn't verify the exact win, you're not getting a check against it. And that tally is ongoing, so if you show up at the cage at end of trip with a pile of chips you're not getting a check for the entire amount unless the sum total of WINs reported at all sessions is equal to or greater than your chip stack.
Quote: MDawgYes I accept that a guy who has entered say fifteen grand in cash into a slot machine all day long who suddenly hits a jackpot for a million is going to receive a check and a W2-G.
But have YOU Mission146, yourself personally sat at a slot machine on a given day, fed into it, say $8000. in cash, hit a jackpot of say $1500., and received it in a check in addition to a W2-G? if not, you just wrote a lot based on no personal experience.
It would seem that most of you are SLOTS players. Fine.
I know that at table games a check is issued against cashed in chips only for a NET win, or return of front money made via check or bank wire. And since I am a credit line player only, the only way I can get a check from table game play is for a net win.
I can verify as a high limit slot player whenever I win over ten thousand ON A SINGLE SPIN I am asked if I prefer cash or check.
This is irregardless of my rated play (which I always do, remember I am a comps hustler) and irregardless of any actual profit.
For example I have been down nearly $18,000, won $18,000 on a bonus round and been offered a choice of a check even though I was a slight loser overall.
Playing $200 a spin slots, it happens more often than you think
Quote: Mission146Combien is French for, “How much?”
I’ve done the same thing before because a wide variety of perfectly legal transactions led me to having a ridiculous number of twenties. Actually, one of those was a ticket redemption machine in a different casino giving me all twenties.
Anyway, I went to the next casino and…I forget if it was $500 or $1,000…but that’s how much in 100’s they’d let me trade my 20’s for. I then went and checked the vulture machines, which I would load with twenties (up to $100) when there was a play. If I lost on the machine, then I’d use twenties to bring the balance back over $100.
Having checked (and played, when applicable) all of the machines with advantageous situations, I then consolidated all of my tickets on the last machine, cashed out, then took my final ticket to the cage and got paid in mostly hundreds.
To be clear, I wasn’t, “Structuring,” anything. If they had asked me to remove all my cash from my wallet and count it for them, I would have done it—-it was all legally acquired.
I simply wanted more hundreds than they were willing to give me so my wallet wouldn’t be so bulky.
Quote: MDawgAs far as the DarkOz ongoing saga, once the drug dealer is identified such as via W2-G payout, the casino will go back and issue a CTR or SAR for all that incoming cash, or will do it from that point onwards, and then the entire money laundering exercise is shot. I am sure you may understand that.
What incoming cash?
It's outgoing cash!
The drug dealer doesn't have to provide where he got $150,000. Only a small fraction of that.
HE WON THE REST!!
Quote: darkozI can verify as a high limit slot player whenever I win over ten thousand ON A SINGLE SPIN I am asked if I prefer cash or check.
This is irregardless of my rated play (which I always do, remember I am a comps hustler) and irregardless of any actual profit
This is 100% accurate. Thinking that you need to have a net win to be issued a check at slots is absurd.
However, he states that he files tax returns and I assume they go back over the years showing a trail of justifiable assets and income, so those incoming cash reports are no doubt ignored as justifiable.
Not so for the drug dealer who drifts cooly out of nowhere with a huge sack trying to rinse it in a casino.
This is, of course, absent just getting your own front money (submitted via cashier's check or bank wire) back.
Quote: MDawgThere must be a gang of CTRs or maybe even SARs being turned in against DarkOz if in fact he is inputting that much cash (well over 10K per 24 hours) into slot machines under his own name.
However, he states that he files tax returns and I assume they go back over the years showing a trail of justifiable assets and income, so those incoming cash reports are no doubt ignored as justifiable.
Not so for the drug dealer who drifts cooly out of nowhere with a huge sack trying to rinse it in a casino.
I do file my taxes but 100% of my "justifiable income" are comprised of previous gambling wins.
I don't need to clean money since gambling really is my profession but if I was a drug dealer I could have left the same exact trail of years of W2-G forms.
You keep insisting the drug dealer is showing up with a sack of cash. HE DOESN'T! He is trying to walk away with a sack of cash.
Perhaps you don't play slots but if I lose $1500 cash, then win $1500 in a spin, I now have proof I won $1500 income. You can do that multiple times till it adds up to $150,000 and you never walked in with more than $10,000.
But you are walking out with proof you won $150,000 in Jackpots.
And the IRS says you need to supply logs and a whole bunch of other crap to offset your losses. THE IRS DOESN'T WANT YOU TO OFFSET YOUR LOSSES!
And neither would a drug dealer because he is interested in cleaning his money
(I just mean that he would offset some losses, if actually filing taxes in the first place.)
Quote: Mission146I’m sure he wouldn’t want to clean ten grand and pay taxes on $150,000 as a result of doing so.
He isn't cleaning ten grand. He is running ten grand through the slots, accruing a total of $150,000 in Jackpots.
He has effectively cleaned $150,000 because he now has proof be won it!!!
And if his goal is to legitimize his income then, yeah he has to pay taxes on it
There probably would be other factors involved.
For example, the drug dealer actually enjoys gambling and sees the opportunity of cleaning his money at the same time.
If you have to pay someone to clean your money, doing it this way leaves the possibility of actually winning money legit (for example trying to clean$150,000 and winning a million dollars Jackpot. No other method of cleaning money does that)
Quote: darkozHe isn't cleaning ten grand. He is running ten grand through the slots, accruing a total of $150,000 in Jackpots.
He has effectively cleaned $150,000 because he now has proof be won it!!!
And if his goal is to legitimize his income then, yeah he has to pay taxes on it
Oh, I get it. I’m kind of an idiot, sometimes.
Quote: Mission146Oh, I get it. I’m kind of an idiot, sometimes.
That's what the forum is for. Sharing information and making things clear
I've called various Vegas casinos and verified this. The rules for getting checks for table players are different than for slot players.
Mdawg brought up this subject again so he could get another pat on the back for his verified winnings.
As far as laundering money goes... yes you can launder money at casinos by simply putting bills into a slot machine then cashing out tickets. In this case the laundering only shows casino play. Probably not enough to hide cash but I dont think the IRS would even bother to check.
Are you able to turn those tickets into a check without hitting a taxable jackpot? I dont know. I never asked.
I do know that casinos usually dont offer checks for small jackpots. They really dont want to issue checks at all. Checks cost them money both in terms of real costs and they want you to have the cash to keep playing.
Has anyone here REALLY been offered a check for a W2G win of less than $10,000??? I know that I havent.
Quote: AlanMendelsonFirst of all Mdawg wants all of you to know that when he gets checks from casinos from playing table games that the checks represent actual net winnings.
Mdawg brought up this subject again so he could get another pat on the back for his verified winnings.
getting a check and showing it around on gambling forums does not in any way at all prove a person is a long term winner
a player could get a check for $15K on Wednesday and dump $17k on Thursday
it's going to take a lot more than that to prove long term winnings - especially from a player who is obviously trying to make himself famous
fame is a drug that some can't resist - what a person will do to get that drug could be described this way - such a person will do anything - anything and everything
.
Quote: AlanMendelsonFirst of all Mdawg wants all of you to know that when he gets checks from casinos from playing table games that the checks represent actual net winnings.
I've called various Vegas casinos and verified this. The rules for getting checks for table players are different than for slot players.
Mdawg brought up this subject again so he could get another pat on the back for his verified winnings.
As far as laundering money goes... yes you can launder money at casinos by simply putting bills into a slot machine then cashing out tickets. In this case the laundering only shows casino play. Probably not enough to hide cash but I dont think the IRS would even bother to check.
Are you able to turn those tickets into a check without hitting a taxable jackpot? I dont know. I never asked.
I do know that casinos usually dont offer checks for small jackpots. They really dont want to issue checks at all. Checks cost them money both in terms of real costs and they want you to have the cash to keep playing.
Has anyone here REALLY been offered a check for a W2G win of less than $10,000??? I know that I havent.
I agree with all your points but I don't understand how putting money in a slot and cashing out proves you got income.
Anytime I cash out from a redemption I get a receipt but it's anonymous. I could have just as easily found it on the floor. Certainly the IRS doesn't accept those as proof?
And anytime I go to the cashier they just hand me cash and an equivalent anonymous receipt.
To me cashing in an out isn't money laundering. It's just exchanging your money same as when I go to the bank for a roll of quarters.
Quote: billryanI'm sure criminals love working in an environment where cameras capture their every move.
Far more requests/subpoenas come into casinos for tape for other things than laundering then for laundering related, every week, LOL.
Marcus Clark
Real Person; AKA MarcusClark66
Professional Casino Security Expert
Certified Company Firearms Instructor
Certified Gaming Regulations Interpreter for Corporate Applications
Tic-Tac-Toe Expert (Real Competitive Versions) & Mastering Chess
Honorary & Official #1 Fan of the MDawg Adventures Club
Mastering Cracking it. Bit-by-Bit, Piece-by-Piece Crediting Forum Members
Baccarat Winning Session Record: 6 out of 6 & 1 out of 1 Mini Session
Quote: AlanMendelsonFirst of all Mdawg wants all of you to know that when he gets checks from casinos from playing table games that the checks represent actual net winnings.
I've called various Vegas casinos and verified this. The rules for getting checks for table players are different than for slot players.
Mdawg brought up this subject again so he could get another pat on the back for his verified winnings.
As far as laundering money goes... yes you can launder money at casinos by simply putting bills into a slot machine then cashing out tickets. In this case the laundering only shows casino play. Probably not enough to hide cash but I dont think the IRS would even bother to check.
Are you able to turn those tickets into a check without hitting a taxable jackpot? I dont know. I never asked.
I do know that casinos usually dont offer checks for small jackpots. They really dont want to issue checks at all. Checks cost them money both in terms of real costs and they want you to have the cash to keep playing.
Has anyone here REALLY been offered a check for a W2G win of less than $10,000??? I know that I havent.
I have witnessed multiple occasions of a person requesting a check for less than 10k and getting one. I don’t recall a situation of that nature in which the casino was the first to mention a check being issued.
compare these claims to those of the great well known gamblers Tommy Hyland and James Grosjean
there are dozens of people who have played on their teams and been associated with them who can verify their claims
the types of claims being made here are nothing like that - not even remotely in their league
one player is hitting home runs in the MLB All Star Game - the other player is batting 8th and hitting .182 for a Little League team
.
Quote: lilredrooster...................
compare these claims to those of the great well known gamblers Tommy Hyland and James Grosjean
there are dozens of people who have played on their teams and been associated with them who can verify their claims
the types of claims being made here are nothing like that - not even remotely in their league
one player is hitting home runs in the MLB All Star Game - the other player is batting 8th and hitting .182 for a Little League team
.
My place on the roster was justified, darn it! I had a reliable glove and a cannon arm!
Quote: AxelWolfHe was probably up to something else. Other than turning small bills into large ones, there is no good reason to do this.
Not necessarily up to something else, consolidating a bankroll seems like a good enough reason.
It's easier to carry five $1K slot tickets in a wallet, than $5K in cash.
Quote: darkozI agree with all your points but I don't understand how putting money in a slot and cashing out proves you got income.
Agreed. It doesn't prove income. It just gives the "launderer" something to argue with.
I mentioned this before. My father was a mob lawyer and from a relative early age I was exposed to all sorts of tricks. Tricks that ranged from car dealers lending out new cars then reporting them stolen while the cars were chopped for parts... to restaurants that would soil unused table cloths to prove deductions for meals that were never prepared.
Some scams worked and some didnt. But they were all tried.
When I was 12 years old I watched bearer bonds being given to politicians to change zoning laws.
I've seen it all.
Quote: Mission1464. The ticket redemption machines will sometimes tell you to go to the cage if the ticket is a particular amount, or more.
That can happen for any amount if the redemption machine needs a fill.
Quote: coachbellyThat can happen for any amount if the redemption machine needs a fill.
That’s very true. I’m saying that redemption machines can be programmed also to simply always return tickets over a particular amount.
Quote: darkozHe only needs about ten grand probably and will hit his first jackpot. By the end of the day he probably never had more than ten grand in cash at any one time but kept feeding in his wins ALL THE WHILE RACKING UP $150,000 IN W-2G documents
This assumes that a $10K bankroll will generate $150K in W2Gs.
That doesn't seem like a reliable way to launder cash.
Quote: lilredroosterit's going to take a lot more than that to prove long term winnings
What else would be required to prove long term winnings to you?
Quote: Mission146That’s very true. I’m saying that redemption machines can be programmed also to simply always return tickets over a particular amount.
Correct. Many ticket reception machines stop at $1500. like at Suncoat. At Caesars I think its $3000.
Quote: AlanMendelsonAre you able to turn those tickets into a check without hitting a taxable jackpot?
Do you mean requesting a check from a slot attendant at cash out, or redeeming slot tickets at the cage and requesting a check from the cage attendant?
Quote: coachbellyThis assumes that a $10K bankroll will generate $150K in W2Gs.
That doesn't seem like a reliable way to launder cash.
Or nearly 100% reliable, depending on what machines are available and the max bet they will take.
Quote: lilredroosterthere are dozens of people who have played on their teams and been associated with them who can verify their claims.
Are you stating that these people have verified the claims, or just that they can?
What method did, could or would these people use to verify their claims?
Quote: Mission146Or nearly 100% reliable, depending on what machines are available and the max bet they will take.
Under what condition would a $10K bankroll 100% reliably return $150K in W2Gs?
I suspect that machine players routinely lose $10K without generating any W2Gs.
Quote: coachbellyUnder what condition would a $10K bankroll 100% reliably return $150K in W2Gs?
I suspect that machine players routinely lose $10K without generating any W2Gs.
On a $25 VP game, at $125 a spin, how many hands will generate one?
Quote: coachbellyUnder what condition would a $10K bankroll 100% reliably return $150K in W2Gs?
I suspect that machine players routinely lose $10K without generating any W2Gs.
$500 a spin would have a good chance.
At $200 per spin I have generated as much as $50,000 in W2G's
Quote: coachbellyUnder what condition would a $10K bankroll 100% reliably return $150K in W2Gs?
I suspect that machine players routinely lose $10K without generating any W2Gs.
I use qualifiers for a reason, such as, “Nearly.”
E-Craps.
Quote: billryanOn a $25 VP game, at $125 a spin, how many hands will generate one?
If a FH pays 9, then you need something better than a FH to reach 1200.
Quote: billryanOn a $25 VP game, at $125 a spin, how many hands will generate one?
Definitely want a paytable with 10’s, such as certain DW games.
Actually, I think some DB pays have a 10 FH, so that would be an even greater probability of a triggering hand. Over 1% by itself, I believe.
Are you able to turn those tickets into a check without hitting a taxable jackpot?
Quote: coachbellyDo you mean requesting a check from a slot attendant at cash out, or redeeming slot tickets at the cage and requesting a check from the cage attendant?
I answered that question in my post.
Quote: Mission146E-Craps.
Under what conditions playing E-Craps that exist?
What would the betting scenario be to (nearly) guarantee a a W2G with each roll?
Quote: coachbellyUnder what conditions playing E-Craps that exist?
What would the betting scenario be to (nearly) guarantee a a W2G with each roll?
When did I say each roll?
Quote: Mission146When did I say each roll?
You never did. That coach! 😂
Quote: Mission146When did I say each roll?
You didn't...when did I say that you did?
You didn't say much.... I asked a questions (2 questions actually).
Here's another...
What would the betting scenario be to (nearly) guarantee a a W2G?
Quote: coachbellyUnder what conditions playing E-Craps that exist?
What would the betting scenario be to (nearly) guarantee a a W2G with each roll?
Seriously?
$300 on pass, take full odds on point
A Confederate takes $300 on Don't pass full odds same point.
One person puts $10 on the 12.
Point made, total actual expenditure is ten bucks. Side that wins gets W2G.
That is practically AP 101!
EDIT: I'm used to NY and their $600 status. So make it $600 on both sides for majority of Casinos and $20 on the 12 but you get the idea
