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MDawg
MDawg
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July 13th, 2021 at 9:36:08 AM permalink
Converting small bills into larger ones is something, but it's still just cash. It's not like the smaller bills had some sort of inherent stigma attached to them that made them ostensibly different from the larger bills.

I also seem to recall some lines from Scarface:
10% on the first million in denominations of twenty
8% on ten dollar bills
6% on fives

i.e. that when it comes to money laundering, smaller bills are easier to rinse than larger....


In any case, Money laundering is converting cash into some form other than cash i.e. getting it into the bank, and casinos will not payout at table games in checks other than for winnings.

I don't play slots but are people saying that a person may sit there in front of a slot machine sliding in paper money, and then if he wins receive a check for the winnings? That makes sense in that the check is just for the winnings, but it doesn't seem like much in the way of money laundering in that (1) slot machines are losers, (2) the recipient must receive a W-2 G for any significant win and identify himself fully.

Over all, yes, if someone is willing to accept the loss I suppose casinos will convert cash to check IF you win, but still - the check is issued only for the winning portion.
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darkoz
darkoz
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July 13th, 2021 at 9:51:49 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg

Converting small bills into larger ones is something, but it's still just cash. It's not like the smaller bills had some sort of inherent stigma attached to them that made them ostensibly different from the larger bills.

I also seem to recall some lines from Scarface:
10% on the first million in denominations of twenty
8% on ten dollar bills
6% on fives

i.e. that when it comes to money laundering, smaller bills are easier to rinse than larger....


In any case, Money laundering is converting cash into some form other than cash i.e. getting it into the bank, and casinos will not payout at table games in checks other than for winnings.

I don't play slots but are people saying that a person may sit there in front of a slot machine sliding in paper money, and then if he wins receive a check for the winnings? That makes sense in that the check is just for the winnings, but it doesn't seem like much in the way of money laundering in that (1) slot machines are losers, (2) the recipient must receive a W-2 G for any significant win and identify himself fully.

Over all, yes, if someone is willing to accept the loss I suppose casinos will convert cash to check IF you win, but still - the check is issued only for the winning portion.



What is being said about say $500 denom slots is the intent is to play cash in and win Jackpots.

If you wager $5 and win $15 it's no big deal. Same game, same symbols same potential win @ $500 a spin means a $1500 win and a jackpot. Simply because you are playing a high denom.

You would get paid in check or cash, that doesn't matter. What matters is the W2G. And yes, you would have to identify yourself but that's the point!

I have one hundred fifty grand from drug money. I want to buy a car. I go play slots and Walk out after just a day or two with proof I won $120,000 (that's assuming a 20% loss from variance. You could get lucky and actually win money) and now when I plunk down money on that car and the IRS asks where it came from, here you go, my W2-G!

EDIT:. At $500 a spin it takes very little to earn Jackpot s since just winning 2/12 times wager triggers one but you eventually will hit some really big wins. A bonus round for example with free spins could give you tens of thousands.

I have played $200 per spin and won as much as twenty grand on a single bonus round and that wasn't even full symbols on any of my wins.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
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July 13th, 2021 at 10:01:58 AM permalink
You can also play video poker with a 99% return. Getting a pair of Jacks or better is considered a "win" on many games even though it's simply a return of your bet.

Play $100/coin 9/6 Jacks and you can get a casino check without really winning but it still qualifies as a win.

I dont play baccarat but it seems to me that if you also just break even you'd also qualify for a check that says "winnings." Just like in video poker.
MDawg
MDawg
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July 13th, 2021 at 10:02:42 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

I have one hundred fifty grand from drug money. I want to buy a car. I go play slots and Walk out after just a day or two with proof I won $120,000 (that's assuming a 20% loss from variance. You could get lucky and actually win money) and now when I plunk down money on that car and the IRS asks where it came from, here you go, my W2-G!


However, how do you get the $150,000. cash into the casino for play in the first place without being reported with a CTR, which is issued for any deposit or withdrawal of 10000 or more per 24 hours, or a SAR, if you try to structure it into there a little bit at a time? Then if the Treasury Dept. sees that inflow of cash they are going to weigh it against the W2-G for winnings.

When an anonymous or even non-anonymous player tries to stay under the radar, whether at slots or table games, and is careful to keep his cash in/out flows under 10K per 24 hours, is he guilty of structuring?
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MDawg
MDawg
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July 13th, 2021 at 10:05:30 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

I dont play baccarat but it seems to me that if you also just break even you'd also qualify for a check that says "winnings." Just like in video poker.


This comes down to not understanding how things work.

If you arrive at the table with $10,000. cash buy in, and leave with $10,000. in chips you are not getting a check for anything. No win - no check.
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AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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July 13th, 2021 at 10:07:05 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg

Converting small bills into larger ones is something, but it's still just cash. It's not like the smaller bills had some sort of inherent stigma attached to them that made them ostensibly different from the larger bills.

Money laundering is converting cash into some form other than cash i.e. getting it into the bank, and casinos will not payout at table games in checks other than for winnings.

I don't play slots but are people saying that a person may sit there in front of a slot machine sliding in paper money, and then if he wins receive a check for the winnings? That makes sense in that the check is just for the winnings, but it doesn't seem like much in the way of money laundering in that (1) slot machines are losers, (2) the recipient must receive a W-2 G for any significant win and identify himself fully.

Over all, yes, if someone is willing to accept the loss I suppose casinos will convert cash to check IF you win, but still - the check is issued only for the winning portion.


There are numerous ways to get a check from a casino.
I have had at least 100 checks issued to me from casinos, not including jackpot winners.

I had so many checks issued to me at one group of casinos that they finally called me to ask to come in and explain what was up before they would issue me my pending checks. I did explain, they were happy with my explanation and just asked me to limit getting checks to x per month since with was causing extra work for their accounting department. If people are wondering why I was doing that, I'm just going to say that it was nothing nefarious, it was just a +EV situation, and I will leave it at that.

You can get checks issued from casinos without losing or winning a penny.

You can get a check issued in an amount for MORE than you actually won.

FYI, If you are laundering money in a casino, you probably want the W-2 G to identify you.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
darkoz
darkoz
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July 13th, 2021 at 10:09:17 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg

However, how do you get the $150,000. cash into the casino for play in the first place without being reported with a CTR, which is issued for any deposit or withdrawal of 10000 or more, or a SAR, if you try to structure it into there a little bit at a time? Then if the Treasury Dept. sees that inflow of cash they are going to weigh it against the W2-G for winnings.

When an anonymous or even non-anonymous player tries to stay under the radar, whether at slots or table games, and is careful to keep his cash in/out flows under 10K per 24 hours, is he guilty of structuring?



You don't need $150,000 in the slots. You just need $500.

Of course you probably won't win that first spin but if you actually lose $150,000 before your first single w2g I would suggest it's not working.

What actually will most likely happen is you lose a few grand before getting your first jackpot. And then you can just say you took that money and kept playing (which is almost certainly going to be the truth anyway. Most people pump it back.)

You are obviously paying taxes on your W2-G wins so if the IRS wants to now subtract the losses then they are basically screwing themselves aren't they?

And of course, you don't have to start with $500 slots. You can start with $100 slots and work your way up. Any money you are gambling is from previous Jackpots you have won. Highly doubtful the IRS asks where you got a couple hundred bucks
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
MDawg
MDawg
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July 13th, 2021 at 10:11:58 AM permalink
If you inflow over 10K cash over a 24 hour period into the casino it must be reported. Which then begs the question of where the cash came from in the first place. Your example doesn't solve anything, does it?
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AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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Thanks for this post from:
MDawg
July 13th, 2021 at 10:12:39 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg



When an anonymous or even non-anonymous player tries to stay under the radar, whether at slots or table games, and is careful to keep his cash in/out flows under 10K per 24 hours, is he guilty of structuring?

YES.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
MDawg
MDawg
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July 13th, 2021 at 10:15:02 AM permalink
AxelWolf's copy/paste about something that happened years ago is not quite relevant to this topic. Today, there is no way to get a check from a Nevada casino other than for a verified WIN, or for a return of front money made via check or bank wire. Period. Anyone who says otherwise hasn't tried it recently.

And anyone at this forum who plays at a casino TODAY (not years ago) should be able to verify this first hand.
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/

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