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Mission146
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August 4th, 2019 at 1:58:02 PM permalink
Quote: Gandler

That is how I am which is why I either call myself a NeoCon or an extreme moderate (both generally out of jest).

But, I support personal rights as far as social activities. I think drugs should be legal, I support all adult consensual sex.

I still do not fully understand the differences in libertarianism. I understand one is more of a communal group of people caring for each other without a government (but wouldn't that essentially become a government?.....) And, the more mainstream one is simply less government, the most extreme being anarchists (anarcho-capitalists to be specific as opposed to anarcho-communists which though strange to me I assume that is closer to the communal group you were describing, which still makes no sense to me, its just a government under a different name with no property rights.....) . All libertarian groups I was formerly active in were Ron Paul type libertarian (as little government as possible, no taxes, no regulations, etc....)



Much like humanity, the Government, and individual Governments, are an evolving thing. I am also quite sure that most of us here understand how the notion of countries and of Governments came into being in the first place, and it all starts with a set of rules. The only question is what should those rules be and how should those rules be enforced? As far as military is concerned, then it becomes a question of how do we protect our own nation and way of life? Should we do more than merely be ready to defend ourselves vis-a-vis acting militaristically in other countries? Expansion. Imperialism v. Isolationism, or something in between.

As far as communes go, I would agree with you that the majority of them would have rules (spoken or unspoken) and would become a de facto Government unto themselves. Eventually, especially as it got bigger, the need for something more formalized would certainly arise. Social contracts work until they don't.

Also, to clarify, I'm not for the abolishment of property rights in any way whatsoever.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
bobbartop
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August 4th, 2019 at 2:07:13 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

More likely, it's because I look at things on an issue-by-issue basis rather than parroting everything that the party under which I'm registered tells me to parrot.




What's your view on parrots?
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
bobbartop
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August 4th, 2019 at 2:11:36 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146


Also, to clarify, I'm not for the abolishment of property rights in any way whatsoever.




Very open-minded of you.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
Fleaswatter
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August 4th, 2019 at 3:58:37 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs



Today is the 216th day of 2019. Dayton was the 250th MASS shooting this year. Not to mention domestic and gang shootings.


Really??? 250 MASS shootings this year?? Is this number for the entire planet? If you are saying for the US, please provide some evidence to support your number.

From msn.com:

Recent mass shootings in the U.S.: A timeline

From msn's article there were 4 in 2019, 5 in 2018, 4 in 2017, 2 in 2016 and 2 in 2015 for a total of 17 mass shootings for the years 2015 through 2019.

Quote:

The "50 deaths per year from mass shootings" Stat quoted above is misleading because it's over 10 years. EACH of the last 3 years, including the current one, has seen an escalation in shootings and deaths from the previous year. .



Also from the MSN article, here is the number of deaths:
2019 46
2018 55
2017 94 (58 of which were from the shooting in Las Vegas)
2016 54 (49 of which were from the Pulse nightclub shooting)
new motto for the left: “I don't know if I received bad information, but I think I suspected there was more than there actually was,” (John Brennan Mar 25, 2019)
beachbumbabs
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August 4th, 2019 at 5:52:59 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Sounds like when your party tells people the same about Trump, the GOP, and "white privilege."

I'm not saying, I'm just saying.



You and your incel Tom Leykis stuff along with other comments along those lines as above are among the perpetrators of these distortions. So it's not at all surprising you have no response - you can't even see the resentment and hate embedded in the things you post.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
beachbumbabs
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August 4th, 2019 at 6:03:46 PM permalink
Quote: Fleaswatter

Really??? 250 MASS shootings this year?? Is this number for the entire planet? If you are saying for the US, please provide some evidence to support your number.

From msn.com:

Recent mass shootings in the U.S.: A timeline

From msn's article there were 4 in 2019, 5 in 2018, 4 in 2017, 2 in 2016 and 2 in 2015 for a total of 17 mass shootings for the years 2015 through 2019.



Also from the MSN article, here is the number of deaths:
2019 46
2018 55
2017 94 (58 of which were from the shooting in Las Vegas)
2016 54 (49 of which were from the Pulse nightclub shooting)



Yes, 250 MASS shootings. You're conflating mass shootings with mass murderer. The former has a generally agreed-upon definition of 4 or more persons killed OR injured by gunfire. Some sources include the shooter in that; others don't.

Mass MURDERER was defined by the FBI in the 80s to include all deaths of 4 or more victims by a particular perpetrator(s), whether by gunfire or other means. For example, the 9/11 hijackers were all mass murderers, even though not a single shot was fired.

Mass shootings have risen year-over-year, and the subset that are hate-inspired are also rising.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Fleaswatter
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August 4th, 2019 at 7:36:31 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs



Yes, 250 MASS shootings. You're conflating mass shootings with mass murderer.


I am not conflating anything. I just provided a MSN.com link which provided a timeline about recent "Mass Shootings".

Since you do not seem to agree with my MSN.com source, are you implying that MSN.com is incorrect and "fake news" ???

Please feel free to provide your evidence of 250 mass shootings.

Quote:

The former has a generally agreed-upon definition of 4 or more persons killed OR injured by gunfire. Some sources include the shooter in that; others don't.

Mass MURDERER was defined by the FBI in the 80s to include all deaths of 4 or more victims by a particular perpetrator(s), whether by gunfire or other means. For example, the 9/11 hijackers were all mass murderers, even though not a single shot was fired.

Mass shootings have risen year-over-year, and the subset that are hate-inspired are also rising.

new motto for the left: “I don't know if I received bad information, but I think I suspected there was more than there actually was,” (John Brennan Mar 25, 2019)
Boz
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August 4th, 2019 at 7:37:42 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

You and your incel Tom Leykis stuff along with other comments along those lines as above are among the perpetrators of these distortions. So it's not at all surprising you have no response - you can't even see the resentment and hate embedded in the things you post.



Your angry towards AZ is unbecoming of someone of your stature. Just my semi biased opinion.

Hate is a horrible word, and I never observed anything close to hate from AZ.

Maybe look at some with your political views if you really want to see “hate”.
Fleaswatter
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August 4th, 2019 at 7:54:07 PM permalink
Quote: ams288

I read the shooter’s manifesto.

Typical far-right anti-immigrant nonsense. Honestly, it seems like it could have been written by Tucker Carlson. That’s how normalized the hatred on the right has become.



It was very convenient of you to pick and choose which part of the manifesto you chose to reference in order to support your views.

I guess you did not read the parts about the killers support of some of the most openly socialist policies in American political discourse today, including a basic universal income, socialized medicine and a belief in global warming. You also did not mention his disdain for both major parties or his disdain of big corporations.

You also left out that he said that his ideology has not changed for several years, and that his opinions on automation, immigration, and the rest predate Trump and his campaign for president.
new motto for the left: “I don't know if I received bad information, but I think I suspected there was more than there actually was,” (John Brennan Mar 25, 2019)
Boz
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August 4th, 2019 at 7:56:29 PM permalink
Quote: Fleaswatter

It was very convenient of you to pick and choose which part of the manifesto you chose to reference in order to support your views.

I guess you did not read the parts about the killers support of some of the most openly socialist policies in American political discourse today, including a basic universal income, socialized medicine and a belief in global warming. You also did not mention his disdain for both major parties or his disdain of big corporations.

You also left out that he said that his ideology has not changed for several years, and that his opinions on automation, immigration, and the rest predate Trump and his campaign for president.



Of course he did. He only takes the tip of anything he reads, then decides if the entire thing is worthy of him digesting it.
rxwine
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August 4th, 2019 at 7:58:21 PM permalink
Quote: Boz

Hate is a horrible word, and I never observed anything close to hate



Hey, the cold indifference of an executioner shooting prisoners in a ditch is just as bad as screaming rage. Possibly worse.

But I'm just describing a different kind of hate.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
Boz
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August 4th, 2019 at 8:04:50 PM permalink
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mexico-considering-litigation-over-shooting-of-mexicans-in-el-paso_n_5d477906e4b0aca3411fb164

GO for it Mexico. Sue the United States. No chance you have the balls for it.

Why not declare war on us, with all your criminals here taking up arms against us. We may suffer some casualties and lose many swimming contests in rivers, but trust us, America will win. Hell, we may have to go back to building our own cars and making our own Hershey bars, but we will win. And we will have to live without shi&$*g on vacation from your parasite infested water, but we will survive.

Go for it Mexico, go for it. The thought of you suing us has almost every Democratic candidate scared. Except Msyor Pete and Kamala, they are too busy waiting for some dude to finish before they can speak about it.
Boz
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August 4th, 2019 at 8:07:27 PM permalink
Quote: rxwine

Hey, the cold indifference of an executioner shooting prisoners in a ditch is just as bad as screaming rage. Possibly worse.

But I'm just describing a different kind of hate.



Say what? Now you are comparing a member here to Nazi’s killing Jews?

Of course you did.

Keep walking that line, keep walking that line.

What a tangled web the Wizard has weaved.
beachbumbabs
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August 4th, 2019 at 10:40:27 PM permalink
Quote: Boz

Your angry towards AZ is unbecoming of someone of your stature. Just my semi biased opinion.

Hate is a horrible word, and I never observed anything close to hate from AZ.

Maybe look at some with your political views if you really want to see “hate”.



Perhaps you should read his prolific rants on DT to get a better picture of his rage. He tends not to post as angrily here.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
AZDuffman
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August 5th, 2019 at 2:37:02 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Perhaps you should read his prolific rants on DT to get a better picture of his rage. He tends not to post as angrily here.



I think you need to see your own rants. And you need to look at the people and party you support if you want to see "hate." Your side loves to try to destroy people who will not follow their beliefs. They ran off the head of Mozilla because he did not support gay marriage. They tried and keep trying to destroy Chick-Fil-A because they do not love being gay, They did not like a SCOUTS nominee so they brought forward a woman with a crazy, unverifiable story of some high school party and added a few who outright lied about "rape parties." They demand TV shows get canceled when a lead actor says something they do not like.

Meanwhile, they run to the defense of people who make up crimes and waste the time of police detectives. They defend groups who start riots because they did not like the peaceful protest happening. They attack people minding their own business because they wear a MAGA hat.

This is the party and side you willingly joined because you what, thought Trump talked mean about protecting the border?

I think you need to look at your own little anti-Trump rants. I had to outright ask if calling Kamala "brown" is fine as you love calling Trump "orange." Along with a ton of other names. You do realize when you come out against all his policies as harsh as you do it means you are against protecting the border, against enforcing immigration laws, against better trade deals, against putting the USA first.

What do you call "hate" from my posts? Well, one where I dared tell a true story about minorities that tried to game a lawsuit on more than one occasion. You did not try to dispute it, just said "it's hurtful." You cannot engage on facts, so you call things hate. Meanwhile, I had to ask another moderator about one of your posts (about Nathan) being direct attacks that would get another member suspended. IMHO, it would have gotten a regular member 3 days in the cooler.

Before you want to talk about my rage, I would suggest looking at your own posts. Before you want to complain about the "hate" of the Trump side, look at the hate and rage on the Democrat side, the side you bragged about joining.
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kubikulann
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August 5th, 2019 at 3:21:42 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

I think <rant... rant... rant...>

Frightening.
(Note: it could be a fanatic from the other side. Same reaction.)

This kind of people are the cause of my not believing in universal suffrage anymore.
You don’t ask a prerational child (g) his advice. You tell it to be quiet while the educated grownups decide.

Otherwise you get Donald the clown and BloJo. And Bolsonaro. And Abe. And Macron. And Berlusconi. And.......
Reperiet qui quaesiverit
AZDuffman
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August 5th, 2019 at 3:29:47 AM permalink
Quote: kubikulann

Frightening.
(Note: it could be a fanatic from the other side. Same reaction.)

This kind of people are the cause of my not believing in universal suffrage anymore.
You don’t ask a prerational child (g) his advice. You tell it to be quiet while the educated grownups decide.

Otherwise you get Donald the clown and BloJo. And Bolsonaro. And Abe. And Macron. And Berlusconi. And.......



In other words, you only associate with people who agree with you and the rest should be sent to re-education camps to get our minds right?

FWIW you seem to prefer to be a ward of the state and let the state run everything, so why do you even want to vote?
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kubikulann
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August 5th, 2019 at 3:40:14 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

In other words, you only associate with people who agree with you and the rest should be sent to re-education camps to get our minds right?

FWIW you seem to prefer to be a ward of the state and let the state run everything, so why do you even want to vote?

No. Nobody agrees with me on everything.
I want to reserve decisions (either by vote or other method) to people who, even if they don’t agree, are not fanatics. Who can listen to the other and find compromises. Who are not saying « We are righteous and you are hateful, although we have the same behavior. » Left AND right.

Your reaction shows that you can’t imagine that people may be other than fanatics.
Who said « camps » apart from you? Schools are a good tool for education. Some people never grow up, it would be useless to try to (re)educate them. Just let them live, but prevent them from having a say in serious matters.

I certainly don’t want the state to run things if the state is run by buffoons elected by fanatics.
Reperiet qui quaesiverit
AZDuffman
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August 5th, 2019 at 3:51:10 AM permalink
Quote: kubikulann

No. Nobody agrees with me on everything.
I want to reserve decisions (either by vote or other method) to people who, even if they don’t agree, are not fanatics. Who can listen to the other and find compromises. Who are not saying « We are righteous and you are hateful, although we have the same behavior. » Left AND right.

Your reaction shows that you can’t imagine that people may be other than fanatics.
Who said « camps » apart from you? Schools are a good tool for education. Some people never grow up, it would be useless to try to (re)educate them.

I certainly don’t want the state to run things if the state is elected by fanatics.



So you are saying the Trump haters should not vote because they are fanatics? Even I am not saying that!
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kubikulann
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August 5th, 2019 at 3:57:25 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

So you are saying the Trump haters should not vote because they are fanatics? Even I am not saying that!

Yes I do. Many liberals are as blindsighted and/or retarded as you Magans are.
Let’s corral them all in a fight arena, and let the serious people advance together.
Reperiet qui quaesiverit
AZDuffman
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August 5th, 2019 at 4:13:23 AM permalink
Quote: kubikulann

Yes I do. Many liberals are as blindsighted and/or retarded as you Magans are.
Let’s corral them all in a fight arena, and let the serious people advance together.



Then you are saying there should be a "test" before people are allowed to vote at all?

MODS: Is this an insult to forum members? Or are all animals equal but some more equal than others?

All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
SOOPOO
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August 5th, 2019 at 4:42:03 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: kubikulann

Yes I do. Many liberals are as blindsighted and/or retarded as you Magans are.
Let’s corral them all in a fight arena, and let the serious people advance together.



Then you are saying there should be a "test" before people are allowed to vote at all?

MODS: Is this an insult to forum members? Or are all animals equal but some more equal than others?



Of course it is an insult directed directly at you. Not veiled. I can't wait to have my interview with kubi to find out if he finds me worthy enough to vote!
kubikulann
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August 5th, 2019 at 5:37:08 AM permalink
Sorry. Is the right word ‘arrierated’?
‘Retard’ in French means ‘lateness’, ‘delay’, ‘staying behind’.
I don’t mean « mental handicap », I mean « obsolete thinking ».

But then everything seems to be an insult to you.
Ironically, the intended insult is ‘Magan’.
Reperiet qui quaesiverit
kubikulann
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August 5th, 2019 at 5:49:41 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

I can't wait to have my interview with kubi to find out if he finds me worthy enough to vote!

See how he distorts my words?
Never talked about worthy. Just said fanaticism is killing the essence of voting democracy.

Of course you’re not ‘worthy’ to vote. Neither am I. Voting rights are what it says: rights. It’s just a question of organizing a state, of political choices of institutions. Nothing about individual worth.
A kid or a foreigner not having voting rights does not translate as ‘not being worthy enough to vote’, does it?
No interview, and certainly not by me.
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AZDuffman
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August 5th, 2019 at 5:58:48 AM permalink
Quote: kubikulann


But then everything seems to be an insult to you.
Ironically, the intended insult is ‘Magan’.



I was told my talk is "hate talk" or whatever by a mod here, so from here on in I will point out "hate talk" from the left when I see it.
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AZDuffman
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August 5th, 2019 at 5:59:39 AM permalink
Quote: kubikulann

See how he distorts my words?
Never talked about worthy. Just said fanaticism is killing the essence of voting democracy.



Like all those fanatics that elected Lincoln?
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kubikulann
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August 5th, 2019 at 6:09:11 AM permalink
Are you comparing Trump to Lincoln?

Are you comparing universal suffrage of today to owners suffrage of 1860?
In 1860, redneck fanatics and PC fanatics had no voting rights. You are making my point.


But later some fanatics went to war, then a fanatic shot Lincoln, then fanatic carpetbaggers ensured long term fanaticism in the South.
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Mission146
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August 5th, 2019 at 6:09:21 AM permalink
Yeah, that one always gave us a good laugh in French class back in école!

We can also use it to mean roughly the same thing you do, just not being physically late. It wasn’t always exclusively an insult (that’s actually pretty recent) and was often used in schools to describe students. “His development is retarded.”

A few schools still use the abbreviation, “MR,” to stand for mentally retarded, which just means delayed progress. It became an insult because it was used colloquially to compare someone who was not medically retarded to someone who was, usually amongst children.

It also became part of my regular lexicon, but used mostly to describe ideas or actions rather than people, “That’s retarded,” but I’m working to phase it out of my vocabulary. I’ll rarely say it about someone when I’m really upset, but usually not to them.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
kubikulann
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August 5th, 2019 at 6:15:55 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

. It wasn’t always exclusively an insult (that’s actually pretty recent) and was often used in schools to describe students. “His development is retarded.”

Exactly. I didn’t mean the Magans and liberals are mentally retarded, I meant that their political ideas are underdeveloped.
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AZDuffman
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August 5th, 2019 at 6:25:32 AM permalink
Quote: kubikulann

Are you comparing Trump to Lincoln?



Absolutely! Democrat hatred of both is very similar. Both presided over a period of extreme domestic strife. Lincoln was so hated he was denied ballot access is some states (sound familiar?!) Both had bankruptcies in their past.

Probably many more, but I must get some work done.
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SOOPOO
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August 5th, 2019 at 6:58:50 AM permalink
"Retard" is a pretty common term in medicine..... "This drug will retard the growth of the cancer cells".
AZDuffman
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August 5th, 2019 at 7:05:29 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

"Retard" is a pretty common term in medicine..... "This drug will retard the growth of the cancer cells".



It is context.

"I am going to retard the timing on my Dodge Charger 440 so I can use lower octane gas." OK.

"That MAGA is talking like a retard." NOT OK.

The left made the PC culture, they need to live with it.
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beachbumbabs
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August 5th, 2019 at 7:12:26 AM permalink
"Retard" is also common in music notation. And in setting timing on some engines. And lots of legitimate uses in American conversation.

It's also (origins of it) a French/Italian word for slow, without the pejorative connotation, which is how kubi used it.

However, in the US, it's been a trigger word for 15-20 years now. As Mission said, I've also been forced to drop it from my conversation (ie "That's retarded") by disability activism.

So, kubi, since it's mistaken for a nasty insult here, please avoid using it in these type discussions in the future. Thanks.
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ams288
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August 5th, 2019 at 7:15:23 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

However, in the US, it's been a trigger word for 15-20 years now. As Mission said, I've also been forced to drop it from my conversation (ie "That's retarded") by disability activism.



Apparently we aren’t even supposed to say “handicapped” anymore either. I saw someone get upset over someone saying “handicapped parking spot!”

That’s silly.
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SOOPOO
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August 5th, 2019 at 7:17:37 AM permalink
Quote: ams288

Apparently we aren’t even supposed to say “handicapped” anymore either. I saw someone get upset over someone saying “handicapped parking spot!”

That’s silly.



I think that is the 'legal' term for it here in New York State. Probably a law will change it soon......
AZDuffman
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August 5th, 2019 at 7:26:46 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

I think that is the 'legal' term for it here in New York State. Probably a law will change it soon......



I have noticed it changing to "disabled." I once saw an idea where they would change the "wheelchair" symbol to an open door, nothing came of that one.

Look for an EO at the federal level one day. Obama did one once where he removed "lunatic" from use. No big news on it, I just ran across it checking on something as I deal with old lunacy cases from time to time. "Lunatic" meant many things way back.
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SOOPOO
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August 5th, 2019 at 7:31:25 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

I have noticed it changing to "disabled." I once saw an idea where they would change the "wheelchair" symbol to an open door, nothing came of that one.

Look for an EO at the federal level one day. Obama did one once where he removed "lunatic" from use. No big news on it, I just ran across it checking on something as I deal with old lunacy cases from time to time. "Lunatic" meant many things way back.



You've likely just earned a suspension! "Disabled" no longer PC either! Its "differently abled" now!
Mission146
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August 5th, 2019 at 7:42:32 AM permalink
Quote: ams288

Apparently we aren’t even supposed to say “handicapped” anymore either. I saw someone get upset over someone saying “handicapped parking spot!”

That’s silly.



I’ve been in the habit of directly saying, “Go F*** yourself,” to anyone who says anything about any word used by myself or others being, “Triggering,” in person.

The lesson being that they’ll eventually learn to prefer my use of words like, “Handicapped,” rather than being told to f*** themselves. One day I’m likely just to stop caring about the jail time and just (hand) chop their nasal bone into two parts for them. Bunch of pansies. I’ll then say, “I’m sorry, your use of trigger must have triggered that response.”
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Mission146
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August 5th, 2019 at 7:44:31 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

You've likely just earned a suspension! "Disabled" no longer PC either! Its "differently abled" now!



They can call it, “Perfectly abled,” if they want to, but words still aren’t going to suddenly cause quadriplegics to be able to walk.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
AZDuffman
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August 5th, 2019 at 8:26:29 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

They can call it, “Perfectly abled,” if they want to, but words still aren’t going to suddenly cause quadriplegics to be able to walk.



It all falls under "it takes all kinds." I remember one phone call asking if "we hired disabled people." That is always a red flag, and worse as we were not hiring at all at the time. I had to be extra careful with an answer as most of our jobs could not be done by someone wheelchair bound.

I mention office work, if it was available, which it was not. Woman goes off on me that "we can do all kinds of things!" Yadda Yadda Yadda. I try to politely explain that the jobs we had required regular standing and reaching. Tried to explain that there was no reasonable change we could make (there was none.) I forget how I got her off the phone but she was the kind who would you would never hire.

Others are like, "yeah, I got a disability. This is what I can do."
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
Mission146
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August 5th, 2019 at 8:46:52 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

It all falls under "it takes all kinds." I remember one phone call asking if "we hired disabled people." That is always a red flag, and worse as we were not hiring at all at the time. I had to be extra careful with an answer as most of our jobs could not be done by someone wheelchair bound.



“Anyone is free to apply for any position they like, some of our positions may require the ability to lift more than forty pounds unassisted.”

Quote:

I mention office work, if it was available, which it was not. Woman goes off on me that "we can do all kinds of things!" Yadda Yadda Yadda. I try to politely explain that the jobs we had required regular standing and reaching. Tried to explain that there was no reasonable change we could make (there was none.) I forget how I got her off the phone but she was the kind who would you would never hire.

Others are like, "yeah, I got a disability. This is what I can do."



“Anyone is free to apply for any position they like, some of our positions may require the ability to lift more than forty pounds unassisted.”

Just keep repeating that sentence until the response is a click or a, “Thank you, have a good day.” At that point, hang up or wish them a good day and then hang up. Don’t get caught in a trap, just keep repeating that sentence until they’re done.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
AZDuffman
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August 5th, 2019 at 9:10:17 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

“Anyone is free to apply for any position they like, some of our positions may require the ability to lift more than forty pounds unassisted.”



“Anyone is free to apply for any position they like, some of our positions may require the ability to lift more than forty pounds unassisted.”

Just keep repeating that sentence until the response is a click or a, “Thank you, have a good day.” At that point, hang up or wish them a good day and then hang up. Don’t get caught in a trap, just keep repeating that sentence until they’re done.



Even that backfires. My dad told me the story he heard of a woman got a job rebuilding diesel engines. Got the head bolts off and asked or said, "which of you guys is going to help me lift this off?" Standard was you had to lift it off yourself. Guy next to her told her that and said, "You want me to lift them? $5 per head per lift." $5 then was $15-20 now. I don't know how it turned out, but I told the story at work once and a girl on the team said the guy "should have helped her." sheeese.

And we did not have such good descriptions. Family owned place. Boy was that an experience.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
Mission146
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August 5th, 2019 at 9:19:55 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Even that backfires. My dad told me the story he heard of a woman got a job rebuilding diesel engines. Got the head bolts off and asked or said, "which of you guys is going to help me lift this off?" Standard was you had to lift it off yourself. Guy next to her told her that and said, "You want me to lift them? $5 per head per lift." $5 then was $15-20 now. I don't know how it turned out, but I told the story at work once and a girl on the team said the guy "should have helped her." sheeese.

And we did not have such good descriptions. Family owned place. Boy was that an experience.



I don’t know anything about that. If she said she could handle lifting over forty pounds without assistance, then you’d legally be covered, as I understand it. I don’t know what point is being made here.

Also, I was talking in the specific context of a telephone job inquiry, particularly in a state with one-party consent to calls being recorded. Just repeat that sentence I typed in the previous post over and over again. Do not offer specifics, do not answer any questions directly, just keep repeating that. Even wishing the person a good day if they do you is entirely optional.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
AZDuffman
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August 5th, 2019 at 9:28:06 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

I don’t know anything about that. If she said she could handle lifting over forty pounds without assistance, then you’d legally be covered, as I understand it. I don’t know what point is being made here.

Also, I was talking in the specific context of a telephone job inquiry, particularly in a state with one-party consent to calls being recorded. Just repeat that sentence I typed in the previous post over and over again. Do not offer specifics, do not answer any questions directly, just keep repeating that. Even wishing the person a good day if they do you is entirely optional.



Point being made is people can say one thing, another happens, and you get stuck with them.

I am out of HR for life so no matter.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
AxelWolf
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August 5th, 2019 at 9:40:43 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

but I’m working to phase it out of my vocabulary.

Now that's retarded.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
AxelWolf
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August 5th, 2019 at 9:54:01 AM permalink
Quote: kubikulann

Sorry. Is the right word ‘arrierated’?
‘Retard’ in French means ‘lateness’, ‘delay’, ‘staying behind’.
I don’t mean « mental handicap », I mean « obsolete thinking ».

But then everything seems to be an insult to you.
Ironically, the intended insult is ‘Magan’.

Wonderful. Now tell me you didn't know exactly what it meant to most others here. Not that I care either way. I just can't imagine a smart guy like you didn't know exactly what that meant. We all know exactly what you were getting at.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
terapined
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August 5th, 2019 at 9:56:19 AM permalink
Quote: Boz


Hate is a horrible word, and I never observed anything close to hate from AZ.


I have and its pretty obvious
He went into a Muslim bookstore once simply to harass the owners
That's hate
Face
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August 5th, 2019 at 11:38:41 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz


Sounds like you got the perfect place for obtaining illegal firearms.

Knock you over the head and a whole cache of guns is for the taking.

Or maybe just wait till you go on vacation



Are we cool enough that we can acknowledge the irony and have a good laugh? =)

It's a bit hard to explain without a couple pages, and I doubt anyone cares enough to warrant that. Perhaps my reply to Mission will shed enough light, but safe to say in the event of a robbery of my home, the most dangerous thing that will be loosed on the public will be my 5rd .38, followed by my 10rd .22lr. Pump action shotguns, bolt action rifles, and lever action cowboy guns aren't generally on y'alls radar (yet =p) and that's all you'll find here.

Quote: Mission146

Face,

Let's just agree that all things between the two of us are, "No offense taken," then it won't need to be repeated! I always enjoy talking to you as you're one person who is willing to get into specifics. It seems like most posts are just trolling (not in a way that necessarily violates forum rules) where one side just makes blanket statements about the other. Kind of like I do when it comes to Religion, but at least I admit it.



Acknowledged and reciprocated. But forgive me if I continue to preface; it's as much for the lurkers as it is the target. It's hard to convey tone via text, and I wanted to ensure an actual debate instead of, you know, the usual.

Quote: Mission

Just that eventually there would be fewer such weapons. Initially, and you're going to hate this, after a period of time for people to willingly relinquish any such weapons, there would have to be searches of residences and storage units belonging to those suspected of illegally possessing such weapons to uncover them. Of course, someone simply making the accusation would be sufficient enough to execute a search warrant, so in short, known owners of such weapons would mostly be reported. Within a certain period of time, I don't think they should face any sort of charges, just that they must relinquish the weapons.



I can understand WHAT you typed, I just can't understand WHY you would hold that position. You must be able to see that (despite your dislike) such inspections would be massive violations of the 4th (massive not only in degree of breach, but in numbers of those so violated) and, without some sort of federal mandate, likely violations of the 10th.

But even so, and to address darkoz's post as well, we don't all keep our eggs in one basket. Maybe my guy in Wyoming does, but he's a lot less hunted than we here in the People's Republic. When I began this post I was going to tell you that not all my guns are in my home with me, and in the time it's taken to type I've thought of 4 different dwellings that hold one or more of my firearms. Further, whether you would call it a "militia" or not, there are networks of like minded folks grouped up around the country. I know some of my people's guns are with these other people who I do not know, and I know some of my guns that are not in my possession could also wind up being transferred by someone not me to people who I do not know. I don't mean to imply I'm on some kind of Sons of Anarchy tip, because I'm no gun runner. But,... man, there is just no possibility, no matter what mechanism that you could use from full authoritarianism police state to torture, that could ever get all my guns.

I don't mean to sound so Edge Lord, honestly. But my Podunk, homebody ass even has a guy in the DHS that will help me get my guns from NY to PA, onto a plane, and into a free state should s#$% ever get that grimy. And I don't mean the Escobar way. I mean with LEO escort. I... I just don't know lol. Hopefully at least it sheds some light as to why my most used response is "WTF?!" and why I can't wrap my head around your positions.

Quote: Mission

That's fine, and those disseminating any such can enjoy their time in federal prison, if caught. I'm also aware that child pornography is illegal, even on the internet, but still exists. Get caught with it or disseminating it and a person is going bye-bye for a very long time.

I'd say make it a life sentence without possibility of parole, that should be an effective deterrent.



Mission, it already IS. Why do you think I get so bent out of shape about this? The laws of NYS say they can come for me and take me, kidnap me, enslave me, take me away from my family and my child, throw me in a cage, and work me for the rest of my adult life for nothing more than exercising my XXX-given right to defense of self! Any one of you could murder me with naught but a phone call, today, in August of 2019. I'm under no delusion the seriousness of what's going on..

An aside, but I have been steadfast in what I like in a weapon, and it's 100% in the arena of cowboy wheel guns and iron sighted long guns. Old tech. The ONLY reason I even glanced at let alone acquired that 800rd p/min, pistol gripped, braked, 30rd, laser sighted monstrosity of an abortion was to give Cuomo a .223cal middle finger. It's also the only reason Pops got his .308, and the only reason the Sheriff I assist wanted same. I suppose an anecdote is not enough to prove, but it's information.

Quote: Mission

Even if so, I think there's a non insubstantial percentage of the population who abides the law simply because they abide the law, whether or not they agree with it. That would take any such weapons away from that segment immediately.



Agree with this. But the above shows others will increase. Not for nothin', but the NRA WISHES they could affect sales as much as Obama did. You're likely unaware not being in the scene, but weapons and ammo sold out nationwide all because of murmurs of bans, even though O turned out to be one of the more gun friendly regimes in awhile, and much more so than Trump.

In many ways, your religious mind needs be engaged. That's in many ways what you're up against, only this one is factually intact and founded in reality =)
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MaxPen
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August 5th, 2019 at 12:27:08 PM permalink
Quote: kubikulann

Yes I do. Many liberals are as blindsighted and/or retarded as you Magans are.
Let’s corral them all in a fight arena, and let the serious people advance together.


Quote: kubikulann

Sorry. Is the right word ‘arrierated’?
‘Retard’ in French means ‘lateness’, ‘delay’, ‘staying behind’.
I don’t mean « mental handicap », I mean « obsolete thinking ».

But then everything seems to be an insult to you.
Ironically, the intended insult is ‘Magan’.



In Magan speak kubikulann means retarded pretentious prick.


That is a slow conspicuous finger bleed in case anyone is wondering what I meant. Don't go jumping to conclusions. I am open to translating anything to Magan at no charge.
Last edited by: MaxPen on Aug 5, 2019
Mission146
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August 5th, 2019 at 12:53:12 PM permalink
Quote: Face


Acknowledged and reciprocated. But forgive me if I continue to preface; it's as much for the lurkers as it is the target. It's hard to convey tone via text, and I wanted to ensure an actual debate instead of, you know, the usual.



It's all good!

Quote:

I can understand WHAT you typed, I just can't understand WHY you would hold that position. You must be able to see that (despite your dislike) such inspections would be massive violations of the 4th (massive not only in degree of breach, but in numbers of those so violated) and, without some sort of federal mandate, likely violations of the 10th.



I know the countries with more restrictive firearm laws have many fewer firearm related deaths per 100,000 residents than we do. It's not even close. I really don't need to know much else for me to decide it's worth trying.

The Fourth Amendment sucks. More than that, if a person is willing to sign an affirmation that you are in possession of illegal weapons, then that's probable cause for a search warrant. The Tenth Amendment is fine, just pass a Federal mandate.

Quote:

But even so, and to address darkoz's post as well, we don't all keep our eggs in one basket. Maybe my guy in Wyoming does, but he's a lot less hunted than we here in the People's Republic. When I began this post I was going to tell you that not all my guns are in my home with me, and in the time it's taken to type I've thought of 4 different dwellings that hold one or more of my firearms. Further, whether you would call it a "militia" or not, there are networks of like minded folks grouped up around the country. I know some of my people's guns are with these other people who I do not know, and I know some of my guns that are not in my possession could also wind up being transferred by someone not me to people who I do not know. I don't mean to imply I'm on some kind of Sons of Anarchy tip, because I'm no gun runner. But,... man, there is just no possibility, no matter what mechanism that you could use from full authoritarianism police state to torture, that could ever get all my guns.



All of that may be the case with respect to the different dwellings, but that's going to fall upon the people who those dwellings belong to, if found, because the weapons would be in their possession. Again, there would be a period (if I wrote the law) during which you could voluntarily relinquish the weapons and perhaps even be compensated for them.

As far as the militias go, law enforcement, National Guard and other branches of the armed services, if necessary, will kill all of them. After they have killed all of them, then the bulk of the illegal weapons will be seized and at that point deaths by way of gun violence will begin to plummet. You're really making a great case for outlawing firearms completely, but I'm not there yet.

Whoever is in possession of the weapon will be accountable criminally for that weapon not being surrendered, it doesn't matter that it's yours.

Quote:

I don't mean to sound so Edge Lord, honestly. But my Podunk, homebody ass even has a guy in the DHS that will help me get my guns from NY to PA, onto a plane, and into a free state should s#$% ever get that grimy. And I don't mean the Escobar way. I mean with LEO escort. I... I just don't know lol. Hopefully at least it sheds some light as to why my most used response is "WTF?!" and why I can't wrap my head around your positions.



Under the law I have in mind, since he is a Government official, he would be put to death for treason if caught.

Quote:

Mission, it already IS. Why do you think I get so bent out of shape about this? The laws of NYS say they can come for me and take me, kidnap me, enslave me, take me away from my family and my child, throw me in a cage, and work me for the rest of my adult life for nothing more than exercising my XXX-given right to defense of self! Any one of you could murder me with naught but a phone call, today, in August of 2019. I'm under no delusion the seriousness of what's going on..



If the opportunity to own, manufacture and possess the firearms is greater to you than the potential penalties combined with the probability of actually being caught, then that's your decision.

I reiterate that all of these things are completely unfair to you, but from what I can tell, you're really more of an unintended consequence than anyone the law is actually concerned about. Probably most people are an unintended consequence.

Quote:

An aside, but I have been steadfast in what I like in a weapon, and it's 100% in the arena of cowboy wheel guns and iron sighted long guns. Old tech. The ONLY reason I even glanced at let alone acquired that 800rd p/min, pistol gripped, braked, 30rd, laser sighted monstrosity of an abortion was to give Cuomo a .223cal middle finger. It's also the only reason Pops got his .308, and the only reason the Sheriff I assist wanted same. I suppose an anecdote is not enough to prove, but it's information.



You wanted the weapons because you were told that you can't have them? Do you also have a room packed with crystal meth, heroin, LSD, cocaine, illegally obtained prescription pills and morphine just because the law says you can't possess those?

(Crystal meth and LSD are two different things, right? The only illegal drugs I've ever used are marijuana and cocaine.)

Quote:

Agree with this. But the above shows others will increase. Not for nothin', but the NRA WISHES they could affect sales as much as Obama did. You're likely unaware not being in the scene, but weapons and ammo sold out nationwide all because of murmurs of bans, even though O turned out to be one of the more gun friendly regimes in awhile, and much more so than Trump.

In many ways, your religious mind needs be engaged. That's in many ways what you're up against, only this one is factually intact and founded in reality =)



I heard about that, well, they bought it while it was still legal, so that's clearly fine.

Aside from that, I just know what the numbers say.
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