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TomG
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August 4th, 2019 at 4:52:26 AM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

Who's condoning slavery? Me? Perhaps you misread.

Someone brought up reparations. My point still stands, and it's a good one. They got their "reparations" already. They're living in the United States, the best country in the world, instead of the African Continent, where all 52 countries are sh*tholes, not just the single country I mentioned. By the way, Rhodesia was once one of the best places to live in Africa. I don't know where you come up with "West Africa had a better record". You're guessing. And you're guessing wrong.



Your point is completely wrong. If the American slave trade never existed, the Americans who descended from those slaves would not be living in Africa.
bobbartop
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August 4th, 2019 at 4:53:11 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

I understood you perfectly. I think most men of good will did, as well.




Of course you did, Bill. I never doubted you. It was the other guy who seemed to miss something.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
kubikulann
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August 4th, 2019 at 4:56:08 AM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

My statement still stands, and it's a simple statement. Modern Day Black Americans are lucky there was slavery, or they would not have had the opportunity to be born in the United States. At no point did I condone slavery. Wtf is wrong with you people? Who condones slavery? Nobody, that's who. gtfo

What you raise is a paradox: an evil can produce a later good. That is not specific to slavery, by the way.

Of course it is not condoning the evil.

But it does not bring much insight to the argument, alas.

Consider the example of the ancient Greek intellectuals who chose deliberately to enter into slave state in Rome, and have a decent life, rather than remain in desolate Greece. An evil for a good.
Well, this just reveals the real problem: that Rome plundered Greece and left no better choice.
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bobbartop
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August 4th, 2019 at 4:56:25 AM permalink
Quote: TomG

Your point is completely wrong. If the American slave trade never existed, the Americans who descended from those slaves would not be living in Africa.



Well then where would they be living? Mars? Don't talk to me.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
TomG
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August 4th, 2019 at 5:01:40 AM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

Well then where would they be living? Mars? Don't talk to me.



I'm so lucky that there are several people here who tell me what to do. Almost as lucky as people who's families were slaves.

If your parents never met, where would you be living? In the mind of the guy who wrote Sling Blade?
bobbartop
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August 4th, 2019 at 5:02:49 AM permalink
Quote: kubikulann

Do you think owning guns would make them better? It would only create civil war. (Or rather, uncivil)

Why do you overlook the finest examples of happy, rich, peaceful free countries? Europe! Canada!
Less crimes, less deads, less prisoners than in the US.
No guns = more freedom to enjoy your political liberties.




Another point missed. And it seemed so simple to me at first, I guess I just have trouble expressing myself. Let me try again. If they take away OUR guns, it will not take long to turn our country into another "prison camp" like China. I brought up the people in Hong Kong, who if you watch the news are going BALLISTIC right now because they're about to lose their freedom.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
kubikulann
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August 4th, 2019 at 5:07:41 AM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

Of course you did, Bill. I never doubted you. It was the other guy who seemed to miss something.

I understand clearly that you did not condone or condemn anything. Your remark was about simple observed facts, and these facts are undenied.

What I raised was that one cannot be content with facts without interrogating the causes and the morals.
In essence, rather than saying « these are lucky », you could have said « those are unlucky » equivalently.

But telling my slave: « Look, I destroyed your country, so you are de facto better here in chains » is true to fact but still a damned lie.
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bobbartop
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August 4th, 2019 at 5:08:21 AM permalink
Quote: TomG

In the mind of the guy who wrote Sling Blade?




Was I supposed to know what this means? I ain't looking it up. I lost interest.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
darkoz
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August 4th, 2019 at 5:10:16 AM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

Maybe. Maybe not. Why are millions of Africans trying to get to Europe?



Why are millions of Americans trying to get to Barbados
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
AZDuffman
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August 4th, 2019 at 5:11:04 AM permalink
Quote: rxwine

Why do you think reparations is racist? Reparations can be paid to anyone who has suffered wrong or are you making the claim no one was ever wronged in the American slave trade?

The only possible wrong is misidentifying people on either side of the issue. If a family inherited anything from grandparents that was stolen, like land or property, it's not yours to keep even if you didn't steal it yourself.



Fine. Round up all living former slaves in the USA and we can talk. Otherwise it is stealing money from every citizen to give to others based on skin color, which is racist.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
kubikulann
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August 4th, 2019 at 5:13:17 AM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

Don't talk to me.

I’m not.
I’m using you as an example to make my point clear to the wise readers I’m talking to indirectly.
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billryan
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August 4th, 2019 at 5:14:00 AM permalink
It takes a very special person to take a thread about what appears to be yet another " nationalist" killing almost two dozen Americans and try to defend Rhodesia, a country founded on the belief Whites are superior to other races.
It's easy to be prosperous when 98% of the population are virtually enslaved.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
bobbartop
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August 4th, 2019 at 5:14:37 AM permalink
Quote: kubikulann

I understand clearly that you did not condone or condemn anything.



Not you. Tanko seemed to miss what I meant. Maybe he didn't. Never mind.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
darkoz
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August 4th, 2019 at 5:14:49 AM permalink
Jews are so lucky 6 million died in the Holocaust. Would be no state of Israel today.

Christians are so lucky Christ died on the cross and they were fed to the lions for a century. Their religion wouldn't even exist today.

We should celebrate these things
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
AZDuffman
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August 4th, 2019 at 5:15:03 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Not free. Access to it, paying what others here do. I don't support it either, but at least be accurate about what you're protesting.



*sigh* Lets explain it in terms your party always uses. They are giving a "dog whistle" when they say "access" they really mean "free." Same dog whistle when they say anything about "reform" what the ultimate goal is for them is socialized medicine.
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darkoz
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August 4th, 2019 at 5:17:41 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

*sigh* Lets explain it in terms your party always uses. They are giving a "dog whistle" when they say "access" they really mean "free." Same dog whistle when they say anything about "reform" what the ultimate goal is for them is socialized medicine.



You never took anything for free in your life AZ?

Not one new membership at a casino that you didnt earn?

Not one free donut at the local shop?

Nothing... ever!
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
bobbartop
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August 4th, 2019 at 5:18:46 AM permalink
Quote: kubikulann

I’m not.



I wasn't talking to you. lol sheesh Try following along with your index finger. I know that always helps me.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
kubikulann
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August 4th, 2019 at 5:21:38 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

*sigh* Lets explain it in terms your party always uses. They are giving a "dog whistle" when they say "access" they really mean "free." Same dog whistle when they say anything about "reform" what the ultimate goal is for them is socialized medicine.

But AZDuffman, this is making any discussion a joke!

Someone could then say, When AZ says ‘’no reparations’’ he really means ‘’I don’t like n***s’’. How can you respond to such absurdities,
Reperiet qui quaesiverit
bobbartop
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August 4th, 2019 at 5:22:25 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

It takes a very special person to take a thread about what appears to be yet another " nationalist" killing almost two dozen Americans and try to defend Rhodesia, a country founded on the belief Whites are superior to other races.




Thanks, Bill. And I feel special.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
AZDuffman
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August 4th, 2019 at 5:23:48 AM permalink
Quote: kubikulann



Hence, it is not the American State that owes reparations. It is the American rich who must distribute their wealth.



And there we have it, you are just upset someone has more than you so somehow it must be made even.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
kubikulann
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August 4th, 2019 at 5:24:11 AM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

I wasn't talking to you. lol sheesh Try following along with your index finger. I know that always helps me.

You told me: « you’re a commie. Goodbye. » I know you are totally unaware of what communism is apart from a derogatory term for everything you don’t like. But goodbye is as good as don’t talk to me.
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billryan
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August 4th, 2019 at 5:24:18 AM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

Thanks, Bill. And I feel special.



Superior too, no doubt.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
AZDuffman
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August 4th, 2019 at 5:27:08 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

You never took anything for free in your life AZ?

Not one new membership at a casino that you didnt earn?

Not one free donut at the local shop?

Nothing... ever!



Not a valid example. The casino freely offers a membership to get me to play. The donut shop offers one donut to get me to buy more. They each do this on their own.

Reparations for slavery is money taken from some a the point of a gun to give to others based on skin color for something that happened decades before even the oldest involved was born.

But if you like reparations, you are free to sign the deed to your home if you own or the title to your car if you do not lease over to a random Black person. Are you willing to do that? Or do you support it by a special tax on "the rich?"
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kubikulann
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August 4th, 2019 at 5:27:28 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

And there we have it, you are just upset someone has more than you so somehow it must be made even.

😂😂
I am technically , if not among the rich, at least among the favored by birthd because of colonialism. So I am upset because someone has LESS than me.
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Tanko
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August 4th, 2019 at 5:28:41 AM permalink
Quote: kubikulann

No need to. Because in Europe, we have it; we don’t need to wait for promises.



GDP growth 1.1% and slowing. Troubled banks. Customers withdrawing $1 billion each day from Deutsch Bank. Central Bank printing money to purchase equities and prop up corporations.

The only promise I see is economic chaos.
kubikulann
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August 4th, 2019 at 5:30:42 AM permalink
Quote: Tanko

GDP growth 1.1% and slowing. Troubled banks. Customers withdrawing $1 billion each day from Deutsch Bank. Central Bank printing money to purchase equities and prop up corporations.

The only promise I see is economic chaos.

Hell!!?
And all that because of medical care for all?

You are one hell of an economist!
Ever applied for counselor to Trumpty Dumpty?
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bobbartop
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August 4th, 2019 at 5:31:22 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Jews are so lucky 6 million died in the Holocaust. Would be no state of Israel today.

Christians are so lucky Christ died on the cross and they were fed to the lions for a century. Their religion wouldn't even exist today.

We should celebrate these things




Maybe we should give reparations. You've been up gambling too long, Dark, have some coffee, shake the cobwebs out, get back to me when you're coherent again.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
Tanko
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August 4th, 2019 at 5:33:36 AM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was talking to a commie. Goodbye.


"It is the American rich who must distribute their wealth."


Sounds more like a democrat.
bobbartop
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August 4th, 2019 at 5:34:47 AM permalink
Quote: kubikulann

You told me: « you’re a commie. Goodbye. » I know you are totally unaware of what communism is apart from a derogatory term for everything you don’t like. But goodbye is as good as don’t talk to me.




Sorry. I thought you were done. Forgive me. Please continue.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
AZDuffman
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August 4th, 2019 at 5:35:18 AM permalink
Quote: kubikulann

😂😂
I am technically , if not among the rich, at least among the favored by birthd because of colonialism. So I am upset because someone has LESS than me.




Dunno what your wealth level. Your statements indicate either someone of lower wealth or high wealth inherited from ancestors. People who built their own wealth tend to hate socialism and redistribution.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
bobbartop
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August 4th, 2019 at 5:41:02 AM permalink
Quote: kubikulann

Hell!!?
And all that because of medical care for all?

You are one hell of an economist!
Ever applied for counselor to Trumpty Dumpty?




You're not even an American. Shouldn't one at least be an American before calling him 'Trumpty Dumpty'? Just common etiquette. I'm just sayin.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
kubikulann
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August 4th, 2019 at 5:41:30 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

. People who built their own wealth tend to hate socialism and redistribution.

We agree on that.

People who inherited their wealth even more.

The former have greed in their character, that’s why they built wealth. The only way to build wealth is by paying your providers, your employees less than they give, and charging your customers more than they get. Economics 101.

The latter are taught greed from the infancy.
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Boz
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August 4th, 2019 at 5:44:20 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Not free. Access to it, paying what others here do. I don't support it either, but at least be accurate about what you're protesting.



https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/10/politics/california-undocumented-immigrants-health-care/index.html

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/california-to-offer-free-health-care-to-illegal-immigrants/vp-AAE8tDy

MSN says free, CNN says subsidized after a certain age. No doubt some illegals are getting FREE Health Care at Taxpayers expense.

Not the point though. You, I and many here are against it. It has ZERO to do with accepting that as a reason for an idiot who should have been shot by police committing a senseless act. And anyone saying otherwise is wrong.
kubikulann
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August 4th, 2019 at 5:44:31 AM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

You're not even an American. Shouldn't one at least be an American before calling him 'Trumpty Dumpty'? Just common etiquette. I'm just sayin.

Hmmm, sure.
I trust you never called names on Putin or Kim. Or Chirac in 2003?

The only reason I didn’t write Trump&Dumber is because I can’t think of anything dumber.
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Boz
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August 4th, 2019 at 5:46:27 AM permalink
I wonder how many liberals are thinking while this was a horrible act and it's sad so many had to die, it was worth it if we get rid of Trump and end up with tougher gun laws?

No different than AMS equating what this idiot wrote to members posting in the Election Forum.
bobbartop
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August 4th, 2019 at 5:47:31 AM permalink
Quote: kubikulann


The latter are taught greed from the infancy.




Well let's hope so.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
Tanko
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August 4th, 2019 at 5:48:41 AM permalink
Quote: kubikulann

And all that because of medical care for all?



Who said that?

Multiple factors contribute to slow economic growth. Mis-management is the key factor.

As far as Trumpenomics, do you want to compare our economy to what we see in Europe?
Boz
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August 4th, 2019 at 5:49:11 AM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

You're not even an American. Shouldn't one at least be an American before calling him 'Trumpty Dumpty'? Just common etiquette. I'm just sayin.



The problem is many foreigners are jealous of the economic success America is having currently.

Any wonder why the rest of the world calls America with their Robo Scam calls?

I doubt anyone with a phone in Nigeria is getting calls from an American Prince offering to share their wealth with them.
AZDuffman
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August 4th, 2019 at 5:49:47 AM permalink
Quote: kubikulann

We agree on that.

People who inherited their wealth even more.



That is what I meant, inherited.

Quote:

The former have greed in their character, that’s why they built wealth. The only way to build wealth is by paying your providers, your employees less than they give, and charging your customers more than they get. Economics 101.

The latter are taught greed from the infancy.



WOW! You are really communist in your statements! No, it is not "greed in their character." It is they had to work to build their wealth. They know what it takes. Those that inherited it think it is easy, that no work is needed, it just happens.

What I find sad, no make that sick, it the tone of your statement. You seem to think that a profit only happens when one person loses. Of course you leverage labor. The laborer is free to work for anyone, but they choose you for whatever reason. The customer can do the service or make the product themselves, but they choose you for whatever reason.

Naturally you charge a fee for your services, after all, we are not communists. Well, I am not.
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kubikulann
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August 4th, 2019 at 5:56:11 AM permalink
Quote: Boz

The problem is many foreigners are jealous of the economic success America is having currently.

Any wonder why the rest of the world calls America with their Robo Scam calls?

I doubt anyone with a phone in Nigeria is getting calls from an American Prince offering to share their wealth with them.

Sooooo ignorant. Everyone in Europe has to suffer those scams as well.

And no one is jealous about a prévisible disaster. Sigh! I suppose your Enlightened Fewer is persuaded all others are jealous of his orange tuff and his chicken-ass-formed mouth...
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bobbartop
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August 4th, 2019 at 6:02:37 AM permalink
Quote: kubikulann

Hmmm, sure.
I trust you never called names on Putin



"Brilliant"? "Machiavellian"? "Murderer"? I call it like it is. But calling Trump "dumpty" just seems a little childish. Perhaps even beneath you. That's ok, I'm not perfect either.

"Chirac"? "2003"? Seriously?
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
kubikulann
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August 4th, 2019 at 6:08:05 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

What I find sad, no make that sick, it the tone of your statement. You seem to think that a profit only happens when one person loses. .

More sad is that you talk economics without a single clue.

FYI, profit is not the same as revenue. Taught in the first year.
Profit is what remains when EVERYONE has been paid the equilibrium price, including boss and shareholders. Profit is what exceeds fair price.
For example, a boss doesn’t work and take responsibilities and effort in such a scale as to justify earning 10,000 times the salary of the employers. That’ stealing in the common pot.

Profit is what the owners extract from all other stakeholders. Profit is mean, dishonest, greedy, evil.


Note: this is not communism. I do not claim the end of free entreprise or private firms. Or equality of revenues. Just some decency.
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bobbartop
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August 4th, 2019 at 6:10:12 AM permalink
Quote: Boz

The problem is many foreigners are jealous of the economic success America is having currently.

Any wonder why the rest of the world calls America with their Robo Scam calls?

I doubt anyone with a phone in Nigeria is getting calls from an American Prince offering to share their wealth with them.




That's funny. lol Maybe I SHOULD start harassing Nigerians with phone calls and emails. Scam the scammers. Skim the Skim.

There used to be a couple websites, I forget their names, where some guy would go along with the Nigerian and just jerk them around until it wasn't fun anymore. It was hilarious.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
Boz
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August 4th, 2019 at 6:12:49 AM permalink
Quote: kubikulann

Sooooo ignorant. Everyone in Europe has to suffer those scams as well.

And no one is jealous about a prévisible disaster. Sigh! I suppose your Enlightened Fewer is persuaded all others are jealous of his orange tuff and his chicken-ass-formed mouth...



The only difference is the calls are coming from inside your own country as you are allowing invaders to destroy you from within. And some of us sadly see it happening to countries Americans died in defending and they don’t even see it.
bobbartop
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August 4th, 2019 at 6:15:57 AM permalink
Quote: kubikulann

More sad is that you talk economics without a single clue.

FYI, profit is not the same as revenue. Taught in the first year.
Profit is what remains when EVERYONE has been paid the equilibrium price, including boss and shareholders. Profit is what exceeds fair price.
For example, a boss doesn’t work and take responsibilities and effort in such a scale as to justify earning 10,000 times the salary of the employers. That’ stealing in the common pot.

Profit is what the owners extract from all other stakeholders. Profit is mean, dishonest, greedy, evil.


Note: this is not communism. I do not claim the end of free entreprise or private firms. Or equality of revenues. Just some decency.



I don't mean to sound offensive, but if you could only see the irony of a guy from France, (I assume France), explaining to AZDuffman what communism is. Please tell me you aren't also a millennial. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
AZDuffman
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August 4th, 2019 at 6:22:41 AM permalink
Quote: kubikulann

More sad is that you talk economics without a single clue.



It is you that does not have a clue on econ. See your statement below.

Quote:

FYI, profit is not the same as revenue. Taught in the first year.
Profit is what remains when EVERYONE has been paid the equilibrium price, including boss and shareholders. Profit is what exceeds fair price.
For example, a boss doesn’t work and take responsibilities and effort in such a scale as to justify earning 10,000 times the salary of the employers. That’ stealing in the common pot.

Profit is what the owners extract from all other stakeholders. Profit is mean, dishonest, greedy, evil.


Note: this is not communism. I do not claim the end of free entreprise or private firms. Or equality of revenues. Just some decency.



Claiming that "profit is evil" is kind of the centerpiece of communism. That you equate the CEO salary with "stealing" is communism. That you say "profit is what exceeds fair price" is communism.

Compare the USA where profit is allowed to the USSR where it was prohibited. Who's people lived better?
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FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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Joined: Oct 19, 2009
August 4th, 2019 at 6:22:49 AM permalink
we have all these posts mentioning France, Germany, the UK, Washigton DC, ...
I wonder if any of that stuff is relevant topeople living in El Paso, Texas.
ams288
ams288
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Joined: Sep 26, 2012
August 4th, 2019 at 6:24:05 AM permalink
Quote: Boz

I wonder how many liberals are thinking while this was a horrible act and it's sad so many had to die, it was worth it if we get rid of Trump and end up with tougher gun laws?



I don’t think anyone is naive enough to think one more mass shooting will change anything in this country.
Ding Dong the Witch is Dead
bobbartop
bobbartop
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Joined: Mar 15, 2016
August 4th, 2019 at 6:37:51 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

we have all these posts mentioning France, Germany, the UK, Washigton DC, ...



Nigeria
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
bobbartop
bobbartop
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Joined: Mar 15, 2016
August 4th, 2019 at 6:39:27 AM permalink
Quote: ams288

I don’t think anyone is naive enough to think one more mass shooting will change anything in this country.




What do you think the magic number might be?
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
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