TomG
TomG
Joined: Sep 26, 2010
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Thanks for this post from:
mcallister3200
May 8th, 2019 at 11:52:26 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg

the cost of driving a car, any car, is over fifty cents a mile when all is factored in,



The government says it is a little over 50-cents per mile. Couldn't someone could simply drive the speed limit with a smaller hybrid and take better care of it that most people and pay less than that? That's what I'm doing and I'm under 10-cents per mile in gas and maintenance. Insurance and depreciation is even less than that.

One way driving for Uber could make sense is if you use those miles driving around for other things. Anywhere a passenger takes me in the city, I'm going to be near a casino I can into and look around for additional ways to make money. Over 90% of the people from the airport are heading north, so if someone is near the airport everyday and heading north from there, they can earn an extra $20 - $50 or so per day without too much extra work by picking some people up. Overall right now I don't think driving for Uber is a great deal for most people. But some are figuring out ways to make it worthwhile. And those ways are probably going to keep growing. Amazon is moving into having people use their personal vehicles pick up packages at a warehouse and deliver to an address. Stacking that with Uber/Lyft would seem to be a good way to make money driving around.

I think a strike would be great. Based on the nature of the service, there is a good chance the outcome would be decided entirely by market forces. Wouldn't that be awesome
michael99000
michael99000
Joined: Jul 10, 2010
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IndyJeffrey
May 8th, 2019 at 12:15:51 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg

The whole premise of driving an Uber is a losing proposition.

As I posted elsewhere: you need to have an inaccurate mind in order to think that Uber is a money maker: the cost of driving a car, any car, is over fifty cents a mile when all is factored in, the type of people who think driving an Uber is a good deal are the ones who think that gasoline is the only expense to be calculated in per mile cost of driving. When you drive an Uber all you're doing at best is taking out the depreciating value of your car in Uber payments. Factor in gas insurance maintenance wear and tear and depreciation and some cars cost over a dollar a mile to drive, with the average being fifty cents per mile.

You figure the Uber driver has to drive to wherever you are to pick you up, and then if it's a long haul, go back towards where he started...he doesn't even get paid for those pick up and return miles. Even at fifty cents a mile which a lot of the cars these Uber drivers drive cost more than that per mile to drive, I don't see how they're making anything.



My brother in law drives for both Uber and Lyft.

In 2018, after taxes , gas, and car maintenance costs , he cleared around $36,000. He has another non driving related job also.

For that year, his car depreciated in value by about $4500

Can you explain to me how he “lost money” driving for Uber during that 12 months?
Keeneone
Keeneone
Joined: Aug 16, 2014
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Thanks for this post from:
MDawg
May 8th, 2019 at 12:21:14 PM permalink
Quote: michael99000

My brother in law drives for both Uber and Lyft.

In 2018, after taxes , gas, and car maintenance costs , he cleared around $36,000. He has another non driving related job also.

For that year, his car depreciated in value by about $4500

Can you explain to me how he “lost money” driving for Uber during that 12 months?


If available, approximately how many miles did he put on the vehicle for the year?
----------

Big gas price swing in the last 6 months according to Gas Buddy:
https://www.gasbuddy.com/Charts
I guess driving in winter months (in good weather states?) could be more profitable...
michael99000
michael99000
Joined: Jul 10, 2010
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May 8th, 2019 at 12:24:09 PM permalink
Quote: Keeneone

If available, approximately how many miles did he put on the vehicle for the year?
----------

Big gas price swing in the last 6 months according to Gas Buddy:
https://www.gasbuddy.com/Charts
I guess driving in winter months (in good weather states?) could be more profitable...



I’m not sure, I’ll find out.

I do know that once he passed a certain number of lifetime rides given (maybe 2000), he qualified for discounts on gas and car repairs.
mcallister3200
mcallister3200
Joined: Dec 29, 2013
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May 8th, 2019 at 12:29:18 PM permalink
Quote: Romes

Unless you work for uber or drive for them, I don't think any of us have really relevant opinions. If the work is tougher than it looks and they're getting paid .1% of ubers income, then yeah, they should have higher wages for making the parent company billions



What income though? Uber has claimed losses of 2.1 and 1.8 billion the last two years, not sure how but the drivers aren’t making the parent company billions in anything but gross income, and there’s no net income for the company now. I’m not sure how you have over 50 billion in annual expenses when your product is an app, but that’s what they’re reporting. Some drivers hand out cards and undercut the company soliciting rides as a side hustle outside the app, If they think they’re getting screwed finding an entrepreneurial spirit like a couple things TomG mentioned or a better job makes more sense than begging for scraps.
TomG
TomG
Joined: Sep 26, 2010
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May 8th, 2019 at 12:48:59 PM permalink
Quote: mcallister3200

What income though?



They have revenue of over $11 billion and IPO estimates give a valuation of around $80 to $100 billion. The people taking in those billions are either wasting that money and about to screw over a bunch more investors, or they've been reinvesting the money into the company, making the company they own worth an awful lot. (I wouldn't be surprised if it's a little of both). Amazon went over a decade losing money. Which helped their owner become one of the richest people in the world.

Quote: mcallister3200

I’m not sure how you have over 50 billion in annual expenses when your product is an app, but that’s what they’re reporting.



That includes payments given to their drivers. Pretty easy for expenses to get extremely high (I'm seeing $15 billion) when anyone with a cell phone can get on their payroll.

Quote: mcallister3200

Some drivers hand out cards and undercut the company soliciting rides as a side hustle outside the app,



That's awesome. I'm sure Uber doesn't hates, but so long as it is just a card that says 'driver' with their name and number on it, it's about the same as a handshake and saying "hi I'm tomg." I would tape it to some candy or a bottle of kool-aid.
AcesAndEights
AcesAndEights
Joined: Jan 5, 2012
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May 8th, 2019 at 12:52:07 PM permalink
Quote: mcallister3200

What income though? Uber has claimed losses of 2.1 and 1.8 billion the last two years, not sure how but the drivers aren’t making the parent company billions in anything but gross income, and there’s no net income for the company now. I’m not sure how you have over 50 billion in annual expenses when your product is an app, but that’s what they’re reporting. Some drivers hand out cards and undercut the company soliciting rides as a side hustle outside the app, If they think they’re getting screwed finding an entrepreneurial spirit like a couple things TomG mentioned or a better job makes more sense than begging for scraps.


Uber is really impressively good at lighting money on fire. That's why the driver strikes and complaints really make me uneasy about Uber's future business prospects.

Sure Amazon lost money for a lot of years, but as they were losing money they were building warehouses and learning about ecommerce and logistics and fulfillment, all things that become cheaper as you scale up (economies of scale). The opportunities for economies of scale in Uber's realm seem much more limited. If a ride loses them a few bucks today, it doesn't matter if they have 2 rides tomorrow...they still lose X.

So if the drivers aren't being fairly compensated (a big if, I'm not saying this is true), raising their wages just makes it worse for Uber. I don't know how much they advertise. I know they pay a lot of really smart software folks a ton of money.

Anyway, I wouldn't touch the stock with 10 foot pole. But I don't pick stocks anyway.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
Mission146
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
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May 8th, 2019 at 1:23:38 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

NY State spends close to $20,000 a year on so called education per student. Most kids go to school for 12 years so that's $240,00 per.
Parents probably spend a grand or two a year so by the time a kid turns 18, society has well over a quarter million dollars invested in them.
The system sucks and is broken. Start there.



I don’t know that I like the premise of reducing socio-economic mobility to zero as a place to start. Even in overall societal terms, I’m not sure providing basic education only to those who can afford it is going to result in the best and brightest having a chance to benefit society on the whole.

Besides, does anyone really look at the money that they pay into the tax system and compare it to the benefits to them of what Government provides? Most people can drive virtually anywhere in the country, but for most people, the money that they’ve paid into the tax system allocated only to roads would get them what, a few miles of drivable road to a few limited destinations?

The notion that parents only spend a grand or two by the time the kid is 18 is laughable. Spend over $500 just on school lunch, per kid, per year. School supplies, there goes a couple hundred per kid. Kid wants to do band? Have to buy or rent an instrument, there’s a grand.

Besides that, who knows whether or not that quarter of a million dollar figure is based on a model of maximum efficiency? I definitely believe there are potential money saving areas in the school system, but I don’t think it means you trim the actual educational component down to nothing or privatize everything,
Vultures can't be choosers.
lilredrooster
lilredrooster
Joined: May 8, 2015
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May 8th, 2019 at 1:34:09 PM permalink
how much you make as a Uber drive is more than a little dependent upon your skill

it may seem like there is not much skill involved but that is false - the GPS is not going to do everything for you

if you're driving in a very heavy traffic area such as L.A. or NYC some drivers are going to know how to get around quickly and efficiently and some aren't going to have much of a clue

some are going to be lazy and some aren't

there's going to be lots of tricks to the trade

I have no doubt that there is a huge disparity in the dollars per hour available earned by different drivers
it's not the size of the dog in the fight that matters........................it's the size of the fight in the dog
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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May 8th, 2019 at 2:03:56 PM permalink
Quote: TomG

The government says it is a little over 50-cents per mile. Couldn't someone could simply drive the speed limit with a smaller hybrid and take better care of it that most people and pay less than that? That's what I'm doing and I'm under 10-cents per mile in gas and maintenance. Insurance and depreciation is even less than that.

One way driving for Uber could make sense is if you use those miles driving around for other things. Anywhere a passenger takes me in the city, I'm going to be near a casino I can into and look around for additional ways to make money. Over 90% of the people from the airport are heading north, so if someone is near the airport everyday and heading north from there, they can earn an extra $20 - $50 or so per day without too much extra work by picking some people up. Overall right now I don't think driving for Uber is a great deal for most people. But some are figuring out ways to make it worthwhile. And those ways are probably going to keep growing. Amazon is moving into having people use their personal vehicles pick up packages at a warehouse and deliver to an address. Stacking that with Uber/Lyft would seem to be a good way to make money driving around.

I think a strike would be great. Based on the nature of the service, there is a good chance the outcome would be decided entirely by market forces. Wouldn't that be awesome



UBER and the rest seem to have two keys to them.

One is if you need a set amount of money short term. Maybe you are short for rent. Maybe you owe your shylock $100 in vig in two days. Anything. The wear and tear are there, but they are so short-term that it is meaningless.

Other is when you are going somewhere anyways. If you work in a downtown and live near the airport you can probably make a few rides a week.

All this money being lost means it will all implode sooner or later.
Tolerance is the virtue of believing in nothing

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