Should employers be able to check credit history?
Quote: TomGBut why do you have a problem hiring someone like myself who uses a debit card, rents, and pays for a car in full? Why possible job skills could I be lacking based on those life choices? Last time I checked the credit agency wouldn't give me a score because I had never never used credit. (I have since been pre-approved for a VA loan so that may have changed; but I include my military service on my resume, so why should that be what matters?)
Idk about others, but I’m talking in general. Yeah, there are exceptions. Someone might have great credit and make poor choices and someone else (like you) may have poor or no credit even though they have their head screwed on right.
Just like how, in general, someone who grows up in the hood is going to be less likely to become the CEO of a Fortune 500 company, while someone who grows up in Manhattan and born into the top 0.1% isn’t going to become a street-level drug dealer. That isn’t to say it’s ALWAYS the case....but in general....
Quote: RigondeauxSome people like licking government boots or corporate boots, but not the other kind.
With the latter, at least I have a choice which boots I wanna lick.
Quote: TomGBut why do you have a problem hiring someone like myself who uses a debit card, rents, and pays for a car in full? Why possible job skills could I be lacking based on those life choices? Last time I checked the credit agency wouldn't give me a score because I had never never used credit. (I have since been pre-approved for a VA loan so that may have changed; but I include my military service on my resume, so why should that be what matters?)
Because I think you have poor decision making skills. You can apply for credit and get good credit scores without it costing you anything. Knowing that good credit can help you in many situations, I think by not getting any you are making a poor decision.
Quote: RogerKintWith the latter, at least I have a choice which boots I wanna lick.
Not always. Did you have a choice when Exprian collected your SSN and credit data, and then proceed to expose that data to hackers?
How many choices in ISP’s do you have?
Big Government and Big Corporate are both dangerous. They are even worse when they work in tandem.
People in hock are less likely to run off looking for another job, and are more pliable.
I've noticed that the working conditions were better for me if they needed me, more than if I needed them.
When I die I hope the bank gets stiffed right along with me.Quote: DRichBecause I think you have poor decision making skills. You can apply for credit and get good credit scores without it costing you anything. Knowing that good credit can help you in many situations, I think by not getting any you are making a poor decision.
Quote: DRichBecause I think you have poor decision making skills. You can apply for credit and get good credit scores without it costing you anything. Knowing that good credit can help you in many situations, I think by not getting any you are making a poor decision.
There has never been a single example of a situation where having a good credit score would have made me better off. I highly doubt you could provide an example of a situation that could probably happen in the future where I would be better off by having a high credit score. You also seem unable to show how these decisions about borrowing money could have an effect or even a correlation to any possible job skills.
Quote: gamerfreakNot always. Did you have a choice when Exprian collected your SSN and credit data, and then proceed to expose that data to hackers?
How many choices in ISP’s do you have?
Big Government and Big Corporate are both dangerous. They are even worse when they work in tandem.
Completely agree!
Quote: RSIdk about others, but I’m talking in general. Yeah, there are exceptions. Someone might have great credit and make poor choices and someone else (like you) may have poor or no credit even though they have their head screwed on right.
Just like how, in general, someone who grows up in the hood is going to be less likely to become the CEO of a Fortune 500 company, while someone who grows up in Manhattan and born into the top 0.1% isn’t going to become a street-level drug dealer. That isn’t to say it’s ALWAYS the case....but in general....
But how much does credit score actually correlate with anything that could be related to job performance? Based on the way it is calculated, probably very little. As I said before, someone who borrows more than they can afford doesn't always get hit with a bad score because lenders love people who do that and only pay the minimum. While there a lot of people who never buy more than they can afford and always pay their debts on time and in full maintain lower scores, because they never consider ever taking a high line of credit.
This is absolutely nothing like a 5'7 player making it in the NBA while a 7'2 player can't. It's more like trying to decide how much money someone has based on how much they lost at the casino last weekend.
Quote: TomGThere has never been a single example of a situation where having a good credit score would have made me better off.
Obviously you don't understand the benefit of borrowing money at 0% interest.
I am guessing that you have never bought an airline ticket either.
Quote: DRichBecause I think you have poor decision making skills. You can apply for credit and get good credit scores without it costing you anything. Knowing that good credit can help you in many situations, I think by not getting any you are making a poor decision.
Quote: DRichObviously you don't understand the benefit of borrowing money at 0% interest.
I am guessing that you have never bought an airline ticket either.
Are you a paid troll from Big Bank? How is churning credit cards relevant to any kind of job?
Quote: DRichObviously you don't understand the benefit of borrowing money at 0% interest.
I am guessing that you have never bought an airline ticket either.
Obviously you are completely clueless about what you’re talking about as you are wrong on both counts
Credit reports clarify things. If one applicant went bankrupt because of medical bills and the other because they bought $8,000 custom rims, and lost their job and apartment when the car got repossessed, I know which one I am inclined to favor.
The guy with cool rims, obviously.Quote: billryanSome of us are talking credit reports, others are talking credit scores. Many things can affect a credit score, some pretty benign.
Credit reports clarify things. If one applicant went bankrupt because of medical bills and the other because they bought $8,000 custom rims, and lost their job and apartment when the car got repossessed, I know which one I am inclined to favor.
Quote: AxelWolfThe guy with cool rims, obviously.
Is this something to do with your Miata?
You must have me confused with one of the fabulous rainbow racers on the forum.Quote: rxwineIs this something to do with your Miata?
Quote: billryanIf you don't want to work for the man, become the man.
Above is the answer, really. If legal, an employer can ask anything it wants, and can determine to hire you using any legal criteria available. If you as a potential employee don't like it, you have exactly two options. Either do not apply for the job or work to change the law to prevent the employer from getting that information. I've been meeting with my State Senators and Assemblymen for decades. Congressmen on the national level, If I felt that this was an issue I care about I'd get a petition of constituents, and go to him or her and ask for a law to change it. There have been many complaining about the credit check, but NOT ONE offering a solution. I just offered one. It has already been enacted for many things, and I may be wrong on some of them, but I believe you cannot ask about age, sexual orientation, medical issues, and some other what are called "protected classes". FinsRule as an expert in HR can probably cite the list better than I can. I specifically remember that you are not allowed to ask a female applicant about her potential future pregnancies.
Funny coincidence. Just yesterday my ex and I went in to T Mobile to sign up for service, as we still have a family plan that includes our kids from AT & T. (As a 'senior', over 55, I get unlimited everything, including overseas, for just $40 a line including taxes and fees. I'm paying $75 a line that does not include overseas now). Anyway, we need to get two separate accounts as each can include 1 son. They do a credit check, and ex's is approved in a minute or so. The kid looks at his computer screen and asks me if I have a credit problem or 'credit hold'. I tell him no. He says he has to then call for a "manual review", and after 5 or 10 minutes I am approved. I think i have one late payment to a credit card company in 40 years as a blemish. 4 cards that are paid off monthly. No loans since I paid off my mortgage over a decade ago. So I can't even imagine what caused them to double look at me!
Quote: gamerfreak
Big Government and Big Corporate are both dangerous. They are even worse when they work in tandem.
My life is so much better than it would be without BG and BC working together. Do you not agree?
I'm not saying there are not risks, and specific situations that don't work out for the best! But overall, how great is it to live now mostly thanks to "BG and BC"?
Not speaking for TomG, as I know nothing of his situation, but there are people who are bad with credit/credit cards, but good with cash. They will spend way more with credit, but stay within their budget if they have to pay cash.Quote: DRichBecause I think you have poor decision making skills. You can apply for credit and get good credit scores without it costing you anything. Knowing that good credit can help you in many situations, I think by not getting any you are making a poor decision.
If such a person decided that it would be best if he did not have a CC or line of credit, I think he would be exercising good decision-making skills. Isn't it a good decision if an alcoholic chooses not to go into a bar?
You'd be surprised at what having good credit unlocks for you. One example is car insurance. About 90% of insurers use credit score as a factor in determining rates. A higher score will get you better rates.Quote: TomGThere has never been a single example of a situation where having a good credit score would have made me better off. I highly doubt you could provide an example of a situation that could probably happen in the future where I would be better off by having a high credit score.
Quote: TomGObviously you are completely clueless about what you’re talking about as you are wrong on both counts
Once again this just shows your naivete.
You said that having good credit would have never benefited you. According to your statement above you must have bought an airline ticket. With good credit you can get free airline tickets, so it would have saved you money and benefited you.
Just another sign of poor decision making. As an employer, I want people that make the best financial decisions.
Quote: JoemanNot speaking for TomG, as I know nothing of his situation, but there are people who are bad with credit/credit cards, but good with cash. They will spend way more with credit, but stay within their budget if they have to pay cash.
If such a person decided that it would be best if he did not have a CC or line of credit, I think he would be exercising good decision-making skills. Isn't it a good decision if an alcoholic chooses not to go into a bar?
I agree with you that some people can't stay within their budget with credit cards. I tend to look at those people as undisciplined. As an employer I want disciplined employees . Just like your example of an alcoholic. I don't think an alcoholic should avoid bars, they should avoid drinking alcohol.
I may be in the minority, but I do judge people based on their life decisions and I think credit worthiness is a good example. At the same time I think we need to look at the whole picture. Babs gave a scenario that she went through that I understand completely. If an employer is going to use your credit history to judge you, they need to talk to you to understand what the situation was.
Quote: DRich
I may be in the minority, but I do judge people based on their life decisions and I think credit worthiness is a good example. At the same time I think we need to look at the whole picture. Babs gave a scenario that she went through that I understand completely. If an employer is going to use your credit history to judge you, they need to talk to you to understand what the situation was.
Most employers are going to do this. I think the "against" in this group thinks your credit is your FICO score and that is the end of it. Far from it. While FICO can be a go/nogo decision, there is much to a credit picture. If a person is interviewing and has an issue and they come clean upfront, it will probably be far less of an issue.
OTOH, if the person says, "should all be good there!" and it is a mess, there will be a problem.
It will be a problem with say military or dealing in a job involving cash or credit itself. Many of those, especially military, have standards that cannot be waived.
You are sadly in the minority. Today in the USA it is always someone else's fault.
I have no doubt that there is a lot of info about me that an employer would like. And, as we become more info driven, they will like even more. Sometimes they will interpret it correctly. Sometimes not.
My point is: who cares?
This is a conflict of interest between business entities and the general population.
Namely, business entities want as much ostensibly useful information as possible at the expense of our privacy. We (unless we are lickspittles) want our privacy at the cost of business having less info about us.
Why should I side against myself?
Funny thing, politicians and judges and actors have their credit reports personally manicured by the bureaus so they never personally experience any first hand problems how credit reports are inaccurate.Quote: TigerWuMaybe everyone running for public office should have their credit score publicly available....
Quote: billryanSome of us are talking credit reports, others are talking credit scores. Many things can affect a credit score, some pretty benign.
Credit reports clarify things. If one applicant went bankrupt because of medical bills and the other because they bought $8,000 custom rims, and lost their job and apartment when the car got repossessed, I know which one I am inclined to favor.
Credit reports are not that detailed. It doesn't have lost jobs on it. If you bought custom rims and borrowed the money from a bank, or you borrowed money from a bank to pay medical bills, and then defaulted, the credit report reads EXACTLY the same.
Credit reports used by employers are simply a tool to be lazy and judgmental. You can get far more information out of someone with a 5 minute interview than you can reading that person's credit report. But that would require one to actually communicate with another person rather than just read some computer file, which is tough for some people.
Quote: KevinAACredit reports are not that detailed. It doesn't have lost jobs on it. If you bought custom rims and borrowed the money from a bank, or you borrowed money from a bank to pay medical bills, and then defaulted, the credit report reads EXACTLY the same.
Credit reports used by employers are simply a tool to be lazy and judgmental. You can get far more information out of someone with a 5 minute interview than you can reading that person's credit report. But that would require one to actually communicate with another person rather than just read some computer file, which is tough for some people.
Hired a lot of people in your life?
Quote: TomGBut how much does credit score actually correlate with anything that could be related to job performance? Based on the way it is calculated, probably very little. As I said before, someone who borrows more than they can afford doesn't always get hit with a bad score because lenders love people who do that and only pay the minimum. While there a lot of people who never buy more than they can afford and always pay their debts on time and in full maintain lower scores, because they never consider ever taking a high line of credit.
This is absolutely nothing like a 5'7 player making it in the NBA while a 7'2 player can't. It's more like trying to decide how much money someone has based on how much they lost at the casino last weekend.
You're saying you know, exactly, how credit scores are calculated?
I'm not saying it is tied in directly with job performance itself, as if someone with a 700 credit score would be better at programming than someone with a 650 credit score. It's about the type of person the applicant is. There's a reason the application and interview process isn't 100% about the actual job. Most places ask if you have a reliable car, what're you going to say, "OMG THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PROGRAMMING!!!!" ???
Okay, let's think about this logically. There is correlation between the type of person someone is and their credit score. If you disagree with this, then you're saying credit score is random (I don't think you or anyone else think this, at least not yet).
On average or in general, the guy with an excellent credit score is going to have his life together and be reliable. He's the kind of guy that wakes up at 6:30am every day, goes to the gym for an hour before work, walks his dog everyday after work, has a reliable car that isn't 25 years old, he'll be 5-10+ minutes early for any meeting or appointment, and probably reads before going to bed every night.
In general, you're not going to get the flakey guy who needs to borrow $40 or is way behind his payments or about to get evicted from his place.
I feel like I have to keep writing "in general", or else people can't figure out what I'm saying and they'll get caught up on, "But this one guy one time....."
Again, it's not all about job performance. If you're hiring for a position and you get 100 applications, you're going to have a bunch of people that are equal or about equal. As an applicant, you need something more than the others to set you apart. It's not just good enough that you meet the basic requirements of X years experience with Y and Z, since every other applicant will (or should) have the same experience.
Quote: RSHe's the kind of guy that wakes up at 6:30am every day
5:30 when I was in my 20s
Quote:goes to the gym for an hour before work
played tennis for an hour in the morning - Usually went to the gym to run or lift weight 3-4 days a week in afternoon.
Quote:, walks his dog everyday after work
Didn't have a dog.
Quote:, has a reliable car that isn't 25 years old,
had a rust bucket for a year, and new car later on, but never missed work --- missed a date though when the car broke down before I got there.
Quote:he'll be 5-10+ minutes early for any meeting or appointment, and probably reads before going to bed every night.
was always early. On top of that, very few sick days ever.
Although I don't know what my credit report showed, I was always in debt, and had high limits on my credit cards, so I imagine it was not very good.
High limits and multiple cards are good for your credit score. Debt itself is not a negative, but a high debt-to-credit ratio is. So, having several cards and high limits helps to make that ratio a small number.Quote: rxwineAlthough I don't know what my credit report showed, I was always in debt, and had high limits on my credit cards, so I imagine it was not very good.
Did you always pay your bills on time? I bet you had pretty good credit.
Ugh, I wish I could get up at 6:30 and have time for the gym! If I'm still in bed at 6:30, I'm late for work! Years ago, I tried to get up at 5 and go to the gym before work, but I could never make it a habit. These days, I'm lucky if I get there once a month!
Quote: JoemanHigh limits and multiple cards are good for your credit score. Debt itself is not a negative, but a high debt-to-credit ratio is. So, having several cards and high limits helps to make that ratio a small number.
Did you always pay your bills on time? I bet you had pretty good credit.
Ugh, I wish I could get up at 6:30 and have time for the gym! If I'm still in bed at 6:30, I'm late for work! Years ago, I tried to get up at 5 and go to the gym before work, but I could never make it a habit. These days, I'm lucky if I get there once a month!
I said high limits, but should have been high balances.
Don't despair, I am no longer in my 20's either by several decades.
Quote: petroglyphI know that if I'm hiring for the position of computer hacker, I expect the applicant to have a credit score around 850.
That's hysterical.
As in, if you're not a good enough hacker to fix your own credit score, you're not good enough to hire.
I had one of those competency reviews in 2009, as a consultant. I didn't realize until halfway along that's what they were doing. The Chief Engineer invited me to lunch with the work crew, about a dozen people, my first day.
They made all the lunch conversation about the sensors and systems they built and what I thought about them, throwing acronyms and testing regimens around, different people talking about different systems, like conversation at various seminars and gov't lunch meetings.
Turned out it was a testing routine to find out whether I had the first clue about their areas of expertise, because they were the people who built the machines we used, which I didn't really know at first. (I thought they just wrote a shell and packaged installs.)
It had been my area of specialty for several years at that point, so I thought we were having an enthusiast session, and I really got down in the weeds on a bunch of questions they had. Turned out they were playing dumb, knew everything they were asking me about, and just wanted to know if I was worth their very high pay.
Maybe that happens to people a lot these days? It was very different from any other job interview I'd ever had. Really very fun; they set me up to shine, but I suppose only if I had the chops to have the conversation in the first place.
Turned out that was how they hired anybody. I saw them do it to several programmers they were hiring, just put them in front of a whiteboard and said, show me the code to do this. And that. And the other. Little word problems. Boy, they made some guys sweat.
Quote: petroglyphI know that if I'm hiring for the position of computer hacker, I expect the applicant to have a credit score around 850.
A programmer friend of mine had a credit score of 840.
He bought an expensive car, and was freaking out because it went down to 810.
Quote: RS...
Again, it's not all about job performance. If you're hiring for a position and you get 100 applications, you're going to have a bunch of people that are equal or about equal. As an applicant, you need something more than the others to set you apart. It's not just good enough that you meet the basic requirements of X years experience with Y and Z, since every other applicant will (or should) have the same experience.
As long as I get points for being white, fine then.
Quote: KevinAAAs long as I get points for being white, fine then.
+1
Quote: beachbumbabs
Turned out that was how they hired anybody. I saw them do it to several programmers they were hiring, just put them in front of a whiteboard and said, show me the code to do this. And that. And the other. Little word problems. Boy, they made some guys sweat.
I have been asked if I knew what Tenants by the Enitrety, a Pugh Clause, and what "minerals" means in a legal sense. Also what rights a widow has to real property, along with other things. Some you had better know, some the answer is "I have to check as it can vary by the year it happened," and some if they start to explain your reaction will tell your qualifications.
Of course, the best policy in corporate America is to always be learning but to be able to not look stupid. Idea being that by the time they know you don't know something you do know it.
Quote: FinsRuleI have a Masters in HR and have been in the field for almost 20 years.
Even though we don't agree on this issue, I appreciate your input.
Maybe you can lend me your expertise on another question.
I did several interviews last week, and got a job offer for one. I haven't heard back from the others yet. The offer I got was my 3rd choice of companies. They want an answer in 72 hours.
What if I don't hear back from my first and second choice by then? Do I ask for an extension?
I would wait the full time they allowed.
But once I accept an offer, I honor my commitments. It does depend on the industry though.
Quote: FinsRuleThey can have you sign whatever you want, but if they run the check before they make an offer, they're opening themselves up to unnecessary liability. It also doesn't make sense to run these checks before they make an offer because they cost money.
So it turns out this was not the case at all. The Company’s policy is that they don’t present an offer letter until the candidate passes a background check.
I called them and said I had other pending offers and needed an answer. They said I got the job, but they didn’t want to put it in writing until the background check came back, which wouldn’t be for another 2 weeks.
I told them that wasn’t going to work, and that I needed a written offer now or I would accept another offer. They called me back 10 minutes later and said they would make an exception as they really wanted to hire me, and sent me an offer letter shortly after.
@Gamefreak — hope you got the job you were wanting. I don’t remember the specifics now, but did you end up having a background check done on you or did you refuse?
I always assumed he was a Miami Dolphins fan.Quote: RSOn topic question: Is your username in reference to Finnish people? Or what’s it mean?
@Gamefreak — hope you got the job you were wanting. I don’t remember the specifics now, but did you end up having a background check done on you or did you refuse?
Quote: unJonI always assumed he was a Miami Dolphins fan.
That was my assumption also.
Quote: RS@Gamefreak — hope you got the job you were wanting. I don’t remember the specifics now, but did you end up having a background check done on you or did you refuse?
I got the job I wanted, but at the expense of a background/credit check and drug test.
I went to 4 interviews and got 4 offers, all of which required both. So I didn’t have much of a choice in the matter.
Quote: gamerfreakI got the job I wanted, but at the expense of a background/credit check and drug test.
I went to 4 interviews and got 4 offers, all of which required both. So I didn’t have much of a choice in the matter.
Dolphins fan. At the time. If I knew I was sticking around here for 9 years, I would have picked something better.
Did you have to pay for your own background check and drug test???
Quote: FinsRuleDid you have to pay for your own background check and drug test???
Of course not
Quote: FinsRuleDolphins fan. At the time. If I knew I was sticking around here for 9 years, I would have picked something better.
Did you have to pay for your own background check and drug test???
Yeah. I wondered, too, the way he phrased that part. I also wonder how many companies are getting away with requiring one or both at candidate expense these days. Like people looking for work can afford the up-front expense. But a (garbage) case can be made for either.
Mortgage companies routinely require $300-500 up front for credit checks and appraisals. So do many rentAL agents (charge you some or all of credit check) while considering your application. Lot of jobs require the applicant to pay for the pre-employment physical, which seems to usually include a routine drug screen via urine sample. Any after hiring are at company cost, but that first one might be on you.
Lots of jobs require a college education of x level, trade school certifications, or other pre-requisites only obtained at your own expense.
So this seems a natural progression. Though onerous and unfair: they're the ones setting the requirement and threshold, so they should pay to verify you exceed their minimum standard. IMO, anyway.
With the job market so tight, if that WAS where the trend was leading, perhaps it will swing back to company pay, or relaxing requirements like that. Be interested to see how much of that is market-driven vs. Big Brother perceiving a need to dictate or control your private life.
