Gun Promoters No Place to Hide Now

Quote: Zcore13

So why don't we? They kill more people than guns. Why not start with the #1 killer??

ZCore13

Quote: boymimbo

We do start with the number 1 killer. And the NTSB, governments, and everyone else attempts to reduce the number of deaths caused by cars via regulations and standards.

- Mandatory Licensing
- Registration
- Mandatory insurance
- Speed Limits
- Traffic Controls and Road Designs
- Penalties for minor infractions that make it much more expensive to drive
- Truck driver limitations and logs
- Higher licensing required for more responsibility
- Texting / Drinking / High and driving mega-penalties.
Then, there's the car itself:
- Breathalyzers for convicted drunk drivers
- Seat Belts
- Air Bags
- Crumple Zones
- Collision avoidance technology
- ABS

All of the above to combat death and injury.

Where is the similar gun regulations and safety systems?

Quote: Zcore13

-Automatic firearms are prohibited.
- The manufacturing/sale guns with less than 3.7 oz of metal content is prohibited.
-Knowingly bringing a firearm into a school zone is prohibited.
-Concicted felons are prohibited from purchasing firearms.
-Background check are required for every commercial sale of a firearm.
-Illigal immigrants are prohibited from possessing a firearm.
Firearms that launch explosives are prohibited.


ZCore13

Quote: RS

...Just wait till he wants to use the word “who” again. Inevitably he’ll forget if he should use “who” or “whom”, then he’ll use “whom” because he thinks it sounds fancy, but it will be wrong, I’ll correct him, and he’ll still think he’s right.

Quote: RS

...Just wait till he wants to use the word “who” again. Inevitably he’ll forget if he should use “who” or “whom”, then he’ll use “whom” because he thinks it sounds fancy, but it will be wrong, I’ll correct him, and he’ll still think he’s right.

Quote: RS

Just wait till he wants to use the word "who" again. Inevitably he'll forget if he should use "who" or "whom", then he'll use "whom" because he thinks it sounds fancy, but it will be wrong, I'll correct him, and he'll still think he's right

Quote: Romes

So I've started seeing it a 'little' bit more (but mostly from the right complaining about 'it')... where the hell is this "Repeal the 2nd amendment" coming from? I haven't heard a thing about anyone seriously trying to get that to happen. Everyone I know is in agreement with some form of reform, but not repealing the 2nd amendment.

10-1 odds this was started by the NRA to scare it's members in to going "Y'ALL AIN'T GUNNA TAKE MAH GUNS!!!!!!"

Quote: TigerWu

Laura "Heil Hitler" Ingraham claims Parkland survivor was "whining" about being rejected by four colleges.

Not only was he not whining, he was accepted into three others.

Stay classy, Laura... keep telling lies and attacking children. One of her advertisers has already dropped her.

Quote: Paradigm

And I am still waiting for the FIU Bridge collapse survivors to be interviewed by CNN/MSNBC so we can get their insight into new bridge construction regulations.

Quote: ThatDonGuy

Normally, I might agree with that, but you forget that Bernie Sanders pretty much says everything young voters want to hear - "Free college tuition! (Never mind that you still have to pay for room and board, and books...) Free healthcare for all! Tax the rich, and pretty much every 401(k) in the country - er, uh 'speculators'!" Add, "Stricter gun laws - going to school should not be Russian roulette!," and now you have a reason for a lot of these kids who probably would have stayed home on election day to show up - and if enough of them vote for Bernie-plan supporters in 2018, he has a foot in the door in 2020 to get his ideas passed into law.


Tell us something that wasn't obvious long before this march. To be fair, you now have to consider the Senate in play as well.

Quote: wellwellwell

The Democrats are gonna be in the desert for a long time. Watch.

Quote: wellwellwell

Quote: ThatDonGuy

Normally, I might agree with that, but you forget that Bernie Sanders pretty much says everything young voters want to hear - "Free college tuition! (Never mind that you still have to pay for room and board, and books...) Free healthcare for all! Tax the rich, and pretty much every 401(k) in the country - er, uh 'speculators'!" Add, "Stricter gun laws - going to school should not be Russian roulette!," and now you have a reason for a lot of these kids who probably would have stayed home on election day to show up - and if enough of them vote for Bernie-plan supporters in 2018, he has a foot in the door in 2020 to get his ideas passed into law.


Tell us something that wasn't obvious long before this march. To be fair, you now have to consider the Senate in play as well.

Sure terapined.
Sure ThatDontGuy.

Just like Hillary was gonna run away with the 2016 election.

Sorry, but all those people that said no to liberalism/socialism/communism and elected Trump are still out there and will keep voting.
The Democrats are gonna be in the desert for a long time. Watch.

Quote: beachbumbabs

60s - some seatbelts available mostly front seat
70s - all new cars require seatbelts

Quote: terapined

Quote: wellwellwell

Quote: ThatDonGuy

Normally, I might agree with that, but you forget that Bernie Sanders pretty much says everything young voters want to hear - "Free college tuition! (Never mind that you still have to pay for room and board, and books...) Free healthcare for all! Tax the rich, and pretty much every 401(k) in the country - er, uh 'speculators'!" Add, "Stricter gun laws - going to school should not be Russian roulette!," and now you have a reason for a lot of these kids who probably would have stayed home on election day to show up - and if enough of them vote for Bernie-plan supporters in 2018, he has a foot in the door in 2020 to get his ideas passed into law.


Tell us something that wasn't obvious long before this march. To be fair, you now have to consider the Senate in play as well.

Sure terapined.
Sure ThatDontGuy.

Just like Hillary was gonna run away with the 2016 election.

Sorry, but all those people that said no to liberalism/socialism/communism and elected Trump are still out there and will keep voting.
The Democrats are gonna be in the desert for a long time. Watch.

I'm looking to watch you lose money
I am willing to bet that the Dems take the House
Bet?
By the way if we do bet, need a long time member to vouch for you

Quote: wellwellwell

Quote: terapined

Quote: wellwellwell

Quote: ThatDonGuy

Normally, I might agree with that, but you forget that Bernie Sanders pretty much says everything young voters want to hear - "Free college tuition! (Never mind that you still have to pay for room and board, and books...) Free healthcare for all! Tax the rich, and pretty much every 401(k) in the country - er, uh 'speculators'!" Add, "Stricter gun laws - going to school should not be Russian roulette!," and now you have a reason for a lot of these kids who probably would have stayed home on election day to show up - and if enough of them vote for Bernie-plan supporters in 2018, he has a foot in the door in 2020 to get his ideas passed into law.


Tell us something that wasn't obvious long before this march. To be fair, you now have to consider the Senate in play as well.

Sure terapined.
Sure ThatDontGuy.

Just like Hillary was gonna run away with the 2016 election.

Sorry, but all those people that said no to liberalism/socialism/communism and elected Trump are still out there and will keep voting.
The Democrats are gonna be in the desert for a long time. Watch.

I'm looking to watch you lose money
I am willing to bet that the Dems take the House
Bet?
By the way if we do bet, need a long time member to vouch for you

I know no one here. I'm willing to put up $100 in cash by mail today if you will do the same with someone here that we both agree upon and they are willing to hold the cash and distribute to the winner. The bet between WellWellWell and terapined is whether the Democrats take control of the US House in the November 2018 elections. I say no. You say yes.

Quote: terapined

Quote: wellwellwell

Quote: terapined

Quote: wellwellwell

Quote: ThatDonGuy

Normally, I might agree with that, but you forget that Bernie Sanders pretty much says everything young voters want to hear - "Free college tuition! (Never mind that you still have to pay for room and board, and books...) Free healthcare for all! Tax the rich, and pretty much every 401(k) in the country - er, uh 'speculators'!" Add, "Stricter gun laws - going to school should not be Russian roulette!," and now you have a reason for a lot of these kids who probably would have stayed home on election day to show up - and if enough of them vote for Bernie-plan supporters in 2018, he has a foot in the door in 2020 to get his ideas passed into law.


Tell us something that wasn't obvious long before this march. To be fair, you now have to consider the Senate in play as well.

Sure terapined.
Sure ThatDontGuy.

Just like Hillary was gonna run away with the 2016 election.

Sorry, but all those people that said no to liberalism/socialism/communism and elected Trump are still out there and will keep voting.
The Democrats are gonna be in the desert for a long time. Watch.

I'm looking to watch you lose money
I am willing to bet that the Dems take the House
Bet?
By the way if we do bet, need a long time member to vouch for you

I know no one here. I'm willing to put up $100 in cash by mail today if you will do the same with someone here that we both agree upon and they are willing to hold the cash and distribute to the winner. The bet between WellWellWell and terapined is whether the Democrats take control of the US House in the November 2018 elections. I say no. You say yes.

I agree to the bet
Anybody want to hold the money?
Wiz? Mission? Axel? Soopoo? Face? BBB?

Quote: terapined

Bet?

Quote: petroglyph

If you are still offering on the yes/no wager, on the meet up between Trump and Kim, I will wager twenty dollars $ on the yes.

Quote: beachbumbabs

That's a start. Recent events prove it's not enough. Even if it's just perception, you're losing that war.

Car regulations and prohibitions evolved over decades. Problems identified, solutions crafted, if they addressed the problem, left alone, if not, amended/strengthened/added to until they did.

For example:
Until the 60s - few if any seatbelts.
60s - some seatbelts available mostly front seat
70s - all new cars require seatbelts
Late 70s - seat belt use 2nd offense (not stoppable itself, but could be cited)
80s - shoulder harness required install
Mid-90s - seat belt primary (stoppable) offense
90s - kid seats required
00s - kids younger than 12 sit in back seat
00s - seat.belts start to be installed.in school buses.
mid 00s - rear-facing child seats became predominant.

Now, hardly anyone I know (with one notable exception ) will sit in a moving car without buckling up. But when I was a.kid, we bounced around in the back of dad's station wagon without a second thought. Other things happening concurrently, like air bag development, affected some rules, but it evolved as patterns came to light and specific issues were identified.

Gun regulation should have evolved in a similar fashion. Instead that evolution stopped in the 90s due to lobbying and political pressure. So, like a dam holding back water, the pressure behind the dam has been building for a couple decades. When the dam bursts, instead of just tracking the previous banks, it overwhelms everything in its path.

Quote: TigerWu

My theory is that Trump will gun for a meeting with Kim towards the end of October, so he and the Republicans can use that "victory" to pump up their constituents for the November elections. If it doesn't happen then, it will happen late in his campaign for 2020 for the same reasons.

Quote: petroglyph

If you are still offering on the yes/no wager, on the meet up between Trump and Kim, I will wager twenty dollars $ on the yes.

I believe the end date was 12/31/18 @ midnight? Correct me if I'm wrong on the end date. Settlement as soon as possible after that date or soon after they meet up and discuss hair styles. : ) Or other things.

Quote: wellwellwell

Quote: terapined

Quote: wellwellwell

Quote: terapined

Quote: wellwellwell

Quote: ThatDonGuy

Normally, I might agree with that, but you forget that Bernie Sanders pretty much says everything young voters want to hear - "Free college tuition! (Never mind that you still have to pay for room and board, and books...) Free healthcare for all! Tax the rich, and pretty much every 401(k) in the country - er, uh 'speculators'!" Add, "Stricter gun laws - going to school should not be Russian roulette!," and now you have a reason for a lot of these kids who probably would have stayed home on election day to show up - and if enough of them vote for Bernie-plan supporters in 2018, he has a foot in the door in 2020 to get his ideas passed into law.


Tell us something that wasn't obvious long before this march. To be fair, you now have to consider the Senate in play as well.

Sure terapined.
Sure ThatDontGuy.

Just like Hillary was gonna run away with the 2016 election.

Sorry, but all those people that said no to liberalism/socialism/communism and elected Trump are still out there and will keep voting.
The Democrats are gonna be in the desert for a long time. Watch.

I'm looking to watch you lose money
I am willing to bet that the Dems take the House
Bet?
By the way if we do bet, need a long time member to vouch for you

I know no one here. I'm willing to put up $100 in cash by mail today if you will do the same with someone here that we both agree upon and they are willing to hold the cash and distribute to the winner. The bet between WellWellWell and terapined is whether the Democrats take control of the US House in the November 2018 elections. I say no. You say yes.

I agree to the bet
Anybody want to hold the money?
Wiz? Mission? Axel? Soopoo? Face? BBB?

Great.
I have Nancy Pelosi and Maxine Waters on my side.
How can I lose?

Quote: MaxPen

I read babble like this and wonder what part of "shall not be infringed" is so hard to understand.

Quote: MaxPen

I read babble like this and wonder what part of "shall not be infringed" is so hard to understand. Silly people Silly Rules. You really think you can deny people the right to self preservation? Sure, give them a ticket for some silly seat belt rule. Call it "Law" if you want. Get in the way of someone's right to preserve themselves. Well now you might have a problem people with your thought processes cannot seem to comprehend.

Quote: Paradigm

Nope, its coming from the Left...here is the chronology in this thread:
1) ZCore said there was "No Chance that all guns are banned"...you know, a rational perspective that there isn't a chance that 2A gets repealed.
2) DarkOz followed with "if there is no chance then why are you upset"...I believe Dark is on the Left here.
3) Steve followed with "There is always a chance that 2A will be repealed" (see here is where the repeal agenda starts, pretty sure Steve isn't an NRA Member)
4) ZCore responds with "Nope. No Chance"
5) Next BBB goes off the rails with "No Chance is wishful thinking" and "....likely the overreaction will include a 2nd repeal" then proceeds to say she wasn't advocating for the repeal of 2A and adds some KKK/Nazi deflection nonsense. But not to worry, we are all still waiting for her list of 38 states.

So no, it wasn't the NRA that came up with quotes like the "Second Amendment itself will become vulnerable"...you'll need to look for BBB, Steve, DarkOz posts to find the "sharps" with that perspective.

And I am still waiting for the FIU Bridge collapse survivors to be interviewed by CNN/MSNBC so we can get their insight into new bridge construction regulations. Nothing yet, but I am hopeful. I have learned so much from "those kids", Emma and Hogg at the big march over the weekend (well more from Hogg, Emma kinda wasted her opportunity and didn't say a lot). Why is the insight gained by the FIU survivors on bridge construction being ignored? They were there when it happened which means they are now bridge construction experts...or so the logic goes.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Getting tired of you mischaracterizing what I'm saying.

Tired also of the patronizing and insulting of those kids, but I guess that indicates they're being effective, with all the lies and doctored photos getting circulated.

It would be to the NRAs benefit to claim the 2A is threatened over this. They will raise membership and sell more guns. They've pushed that button repeatedly with false or exaggerated claims many times, and it works for them. So I'm MUCH less sure than you are that they're not the ones who started this.

Not to mention both.SCOTUS justices (one wrote the op-ed,.and quoted the other) who started the most recent conversation were appointed by Republican Presidents and are/were Republicans themselves.

The bridge thing is simply a deflection from THIS conversation. But it's another good example of evolution of safety culture, the type of evolution that was stunted by politics and money in the case of guns.

They were trying a new design that short-cut some things that historically worked for that type of bridge. Seems likely the finding will be that something about the design or its execution will lead to a CHANGE in how we do or do not build bridges. And future bridges will or will not have that same flaw, assuming they can identify the real problem.

My whole.ATC career was subsumed in safety culture. It's a great way to improve. But it requires a hard and unflinching examination of everything to be effective.

The whole 2A approach avoids the reality of what guns are, what they're designed to do, who should own them. It masks the reality of how destructive this path we're on is, by manipulating the people who like and use guns through fear and equating guns with patriotism. Don't any of you ever go, "wtf" when you get yet another scary and overblown attack ad on your social feed?

Quote: MaxPen

I read babble like this and wonder what part of "shall not be infringed" is so hard to understand.

Quote:

Silly people Silly Rules. You really think you can deny people the right to self preservation? Sure, give them a ticket for some silly seat belt rule. Call it "Law" if you want. Get in the way of someone's right to preserve themselves. Well now you might have a problem that people with your thought processes cannot seem to comprehend.

Quote: TigerWu

Laura "Heil Hitler" Ingraham claims Parkland survivor was "whining" about being rejected by four colleges.

Not only was he not whining, he was accepted into three others.

Stay classy, Laura... keep telling lies and attacking children. One of her advertisers has already dropped her.

Quote: Steverinos

Yeah, and I read babble like this and wonder what part of "a well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state" is so hard to understand. The idea of a militia is one of the 18th century.

I find it interesting that in the NRA headquarters, this part of the 2A USED to be on the wall. Not anymore. Maybe because for 100 some odd years the NRA was NEVER about gun right preservation. It was about the promotion of training and marksmanship. In fact, the NRA worked WITH the federal government to LIMIT gun ownership on several occasions, most notably the National Firearms Act of 1934 and the Gun Control Act of 1938. They also worked with Congress to extend restrictions after the assainations of Kennedy and MLK.

But in the end, the big money pours in when people are scared about not being able to cling to their arsenals. And it should piss us all off that we live in a country where the majority of us want something, gun control, and it does not get done, while the minority of us want something, tax reform, and it's passed into law.

'Merica.

Quote: MaxPen

The militia is necessary to the security of a free state. People and state are 2 different entities. It really is pretty simple to understand.

Quote: Steverinos

Is bullying a new phenomenon? And what about mental health? Are people crazier today than they were in the 50s?

What IS a new phenomenon is easy access to weapons and instruments designed for mass killing.

Quote: Steverinos

So you have a better understanding of it than John Paul Stevens and Warren Burger?

Quote: terapined

Still looking for help on my bet with Wellwellwell
100.00
I have the Dems taking the House this fall, Wellwellwell has the republicans
Wellwellwell is somewhat of a new member
Would like some help with somebody holding the money
Can anybody help?

Quote: MaxPen

Yes and Penn & Teller are on my side

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=%23&ved=0ahUKEwjaoYjfnpLaAhVHwWMKHR92CMwQ8TUIJjAA&usg=AOvVaw0VTJzWxrN8ZFOD4xbU2nov

Quote: beachbumbabs

The whole 2A approach avoids the reality of what guns are, what they're designed to do, who should own them. It masks the reality of how destructive this path we're on is, by manipulating the people who like and use guns through fear and equating guns with patriotism. Don't any of you ever go, "wtf" when you get yet another scary and overblown attack ad on your social feed?

Quote: Zcore13

Yes, both are new. A lot of the bullying is done online through social media and via phone. A lot of the mental health issues are treated with psychotropic medicines and medicines that have serious side effects. Both are new since the 50's.


ZCore13

Quote: Boz

As a law abiding America citizen with a clean record and background I walked into a sporting goods store today and walked out in less than 30 minutes with a Colt AR-15 with some added features along with additional magazines and ammo. The dealer followed all laws and called in the background before selling me the gun as required by law. I also had to fill out a questionnaire that would make me eligible to be charged if I lied on it once I signed it. Questions about drug use and other background items. On the marijuana question it states use is still illegal under law, which is the Federal stance. I love being able to exercise my rights under the 2nd Amendment and a reward for being a law abiding citizen.

And just adding the dealer says he can’t keep them in stock.

So my question is who has a problem with this and why? I still believe most who say they don’t want to take away access to guns want Exactly that.

Quote: billryan

Stating you believe most people who don't agree with you are liars is certainly a good way to begin a constructive dialogue.

Quote: AcesAndEights

I would be happy to play escrow in this case if I am well known enough. I have settled bets with the Wiz, miplet, some members who have left including one guy who's name I can't recall.

Paypal or send me a check, I'll hold the funds until November and then disburse.

Quote: billryan

duplicate post

Quote: Steverinos

Will you at least concede that easy access to weapons of mass killing is a rather new phenomenon? Has an 18 year old with a history of problems always been able to walk in to a store and buy an AR-15, a weapon SPECIFICALLY designed for military use?

Rhetorical of course.

Quote: Face

You need to learn what an AR-15 is and is not. You're literally on the computer right now. Why such resistance?

The AR-15 that was SPECIFICALLY designed for military use in the 50's by Armalite (which was bought out by Colt and redubbed the M16) is NOT the Colt AR-15 that Boz just went and bought, no more than a Hummer H1 is identical to the HMMWV. Until you understand that, or work toward understanding that, your desires remain based on fiction and will be rightfully ignored, as they have been lo these many years through all manner of tragedy.

You can't fix a problem you don't understand.