Gun Promoters No Place to Hide Now

Quote: Face

You need to learn what an AR-15 is and is not. You're literally on the computer right now. Why such resistance?

The AR-15 that was SPECIFICALLY designed for military use in the 50's by Armalite (which was bought out by Colt and redubbed the M16) is NOT the Colt AR-15 that Boz just went and bought, no more than a Hummer H1 is identical to the HMMWV. Until you understand that, or work toward understanding that, your desires remain based on fiction and will be rightfully ignored, as they have been lo these many years through all manner of tragedy.

You can't fix a problem you don't understand.

I'm going to go ahead and trust the opinion of engineers on the ground floor of its original design. Bottom line is this weapon's original intent was not for civilian hands.

https://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2017/11/why-the-ar-15-was-never-meant-to-be-in-civilians-hands/545438/

Quote: Steverinos

I'm going to go ahead and trust the opinion of engineers on the ground floor of its original design and intent.

Are you? Or just the opinion of one engineer?

Keep reading.

So wait...

Are you disagreeing that this weapon's original intent was strictly for military use?

I can responsibly own a thermonuclear warhead. I would keep it in a big safety deposit box in the bank and I would never use it to blow up a city.

Does this mean I should be able to buy a thermonuclear warhead if I'm one of the responsible good guys?

Why or why not?

Quote: AcesAndEights

This website is good IMO, for explaining what a lot of people don't understand about "assault weapons":

http://www.assaultweapon.info/

I'm starting to think it's a horse and water problem, 8's (and good to see you back). This stuff is easily found and easily reviewed and easily verified or debunked. But no matter the ease and simplicity, something something weapon of war.

I'm done for a bit. Stever, we gotta talk fishing one of these days...

First off, thanks, Petro!

As to me owning a gun.

I bought an S&W Model 689 revolver in 1990 at a gun show in Portland, OR. It had a 4 in. barrel, stainless steel finish, presentation grips, and recessed sights.

I sold it in 2010 to a local flea market vendor because I was working in Hawaii, didn't want it left in my house for the renters to find, and my mom refused to have it in her house. I wish I still had it.

It was perfectly balanced in my hand, and accurate, though it shot slightly low and to the left. I was able to compensate enough for that, that I could put 6 in the 10-ring from 30 ft.

I used to shoot it several times a year using (cheap) 158g .38 rounds, but kept it loaded with .357 copper-jacketed hollow-point bullets. If I'm going to point a gun at someone, I'm going to shoot it, and if I'm going to shoot it, I'm not going to just wound someone.

However, except for one odd night in 2003 or so, when a stack of glass in boxes crashed downstairs for no known reason, I've never pulled it for protection, so thank God. (Called the police, told them I thought there was a prowler and I had a gun, stayed on the phone until they had patroled and given me an all-clear to put the gun away.)

Haven't replaced it. Will probably at some point, when I'm done caretaking/staying with mom.

So, no, I don't have one atm. But the spirit of the question was about my attitude, not whether I physically have one now, so settle.your bets however you like; I don't have a problem with being a gun owner.

I was married to a gun guy and Vietnam vet for 10 years. He collects, and I bought him a couple of his finest pieces.

Grew up in a hunting family. Shot rifles and shotguns at clay pigeons. Was trained in gun safety by the NRA, before they went greedy and stupid.

All FWIW.

Quote: Steverinos

So wait...

Are you disagreeing that this weapon's original intent was strictly for military use?

OK, since you asked before I stated I was done...

I claim no such thing. If you read what I posted the last time you asked, I gave you an entire rundown, including the fact that Every Single Round in Every Single Firearm is designed to do the absolute maximum amount of damage possible given its properties. From a .17HMR all the way up to the .577 T-rex, each is designed to KILL as absolutely quickly, efficiently, and decidedly as possible. Without question. And I say again, that is the point.

The circa 1959 Armalite AR-15 was designed for military use, yes. Colt bought it, re-branded it the M16, and being the same gun, it is designed for military use, yes. The Colt AR-15, which is based on but not identical to the Armalite AR-15 OR the M16, is NOT designed for military use, but it does share just about every single bit of performance, engineering, structure, and power as the military ones, it just doesn't have select fire.

Quote: Face

OK, since you asked before I stated I was done...

I claim no such thing. If you read what I posted the last time you asked, I gave you an entire rundown, including the fact that Every Single Round in Every Single Firearm is designed to do the absolute maximum amount of damage possible given its properties. From a .17HMR all the way up to the .577 T-rex, each is designed to KILL as absolutely quickly, efficiently, and decidedly as possible. Without question. And I say again, that is the point.

The circa 1959 Armalite AR-15 was designed for military use, yes. Colt bought it, re-branded it the M16, and being the same gun, it is designed for military use, yes. The Colt AR-15, which is based on but not identical to the Armalite AR-15 OR the M16, is NOT designed for military use, but it does share just about every single bit of performance, engineering, structure, and power as the military ones, it just doesn't have select fire.

I know when i purchase a Hamburger it is a burger without any ham

And when i purchase buffalo wings it is not the wings from a buffalo

But are we supposed to believe that when we purchase assault weapons there is not going to be any assault?

Quote: darkoz

I know when i purchase a Hamburger it is a burger without any ham

And when i purchase buffalo wings it is not the wings from a buffalo

But are we supposed to believe that when we purchase assault weapons there is not going to be any assault?

Yes. My assault rifle has never assaulted anyone.


ZCore13

Quote: Zcore13

Yes. My assault rifle has never assaulted anyone.


ZCore13

What a waste! Kinda like exercise equipment that has never been used for exercise

You should have saved your money for something useful

Quote: darkoz

What a waste! Kinda like exercise equipment that has never been used for exercise

You should have saved your money for something useful

I know. Kind of a waste. I did buy an exercise bike though and you should see that thing burn its own calories each night. I bet I would lose weight if I used it.


ZCore13

Quote: terapined

Quote: wellwellwell

Quote: terapined

Quote: wellwellwell

Quote: terapined

Quote: wellwellwell

Quote: ThatDonGuy

Normally, I might agree with that, but you forget that Bernie Sanders pretty much says everything young voters want to hear - "Free college tuition! (Never mind that you still have to pay for room and board, and books...) Free healthcare for all! Tax the rich, and pretty much every 401(k) in the country - er, uh 'speculators'!" Add, "Stricter gun laws - going to school should not be Russian roulette!," and now you have a reason for a lot of these kids who probably would have stayed home on election day to show up - and if enough of them vote for Bernie-plan supporters in 2018, he has a foot in the door in 2020 to get his ideas passed into law.


Tell us something that wasn't obvious long before this march. To be fair, you now have to consider the Senate in play as well.

Sure terapined.
Sure ThatDontGuy.

Just like Hillary was gonna run away with the 2016 election.

Sorry, but all those people that said no to liberalism/socialism/communism and elected Trump are still out there and will keep voting.
The Democrats are gonna be in the desert for a long time. Watch.

I'm looking to watch you lose money
I am willing to bet that the Dems take the House
Bet?
By the way if we do bet, need a long time member to vouch for you

I know no one here. I'm willing to put up $100 in cash by mail today if you will do the same with someone here that we both agree upon and they are willing to hold the cash and distribute to the winner. The bet between WellWellWell and terapined is whether the Democrats take control of the US House in the November 2018 elections. I say no. You say yes.

I agree to the bet
Anybody want to hold the money?
Wiz? Mission? Axel? Soopoo? Face? BBB?

Great.
I have Nancy Pelosi and Maxine Waters on my side.
How can I lose?

Want to add more to the bet?
I believe Nancy and Maxine will win their seats
Are you willing to take the no?

Still looking for somebody to hold the money on the House bet between wellwellwell and terapined
There are lots of members on this site I trust including many conservatives

Quote: wellwellwell

terapined,

Of course those two will win their seats.

My point was those two will be great campaign fodder for the Republicans to attack their liberal opponents in the election.

Hmm
Didn't Trump go hard after Pelosi and Maxine at a recent rally in PA due to a special election for a house seat in Trump country he won by 20 points
That campaign fodder was so underwhelming, a Dem won
How do you explain that?
ROTFL
A trusted member (AcesAndEights) has contacted you regarding holding our bets
You talk the talk
Lets see if you will walk the walk.

Quote: Zcore13

I know. Kind of a waste. I did buy an exercise bike though and you should see that thing burn its own calories each night. I bet I would lose weight if I used it.


ZCore13

There we go

Sense of humor :)

Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

Quote: RS

Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

Isn't that a charles Bronson quote

Death Wish I

And II

And III

And IV

And V

Quote: darkoz

Isn't that a charles Bronson quote

Death Wish I

And II

And III

And IV

And V

I always attributed it to Christian Slater in True Romance.

Quote: beachbumbabs

First off, thanks, Petro!

Just the facts mam.

Quote:

I bought an S&W Model 689 revolver in 1990 at a gun show in Portland, OR.

Dang girl, we were there at the same time. I worked on the original Light Rail project downtown. Left the PNW July 90, couldn't do the traffic.

If you were scoping out those magnificent hairy beasts working on the Bart system, coulda been me.

Quote: Steverinos

I always attributed it to Christian Slater in True Romance.

Oh damn you're right

I stand corrected

Christian slater quote

True Romance I

And II

And III

And IV

And V

Quote: beachbumbabs

Getting tired of you mischaracterizing what I'm saying

Which part?

Quote: beachbumbabs

My whole.ATC career was subsumed in safety culture. It's a great way to improve. But it requires a hard and unflinching examination of everything to be effective.

Actually I am done here, my energy (like Face) is waning. One last question: While "subsumed" in safety culture in ATC, how many commercial airline PASSENGER survivors did you interview to best understand how to make future ATC safety regulations better? That is the same number of MSD High School students you should be paying attention to when discussing the need for future gun regulation.

Quote: darkoz

But are we supposed to believe that when we purchase assault weapons there is not going to be any assault?

I'm a pedant. "Any" assault? I'd argue there's hardly a single thing in which you could be so definitive, and certainly not in such a multi-layered issue such as this. So no, you're not reasonably supposed to believe there will not be "any".

However, the number of people killed by rifles per year, and I am talking ALL rifles not limited to black plastic rifles, account for hundreds of deaths per year. And those indeed are low hundreds. 4XX here, 2xx there, year by year. I will fully admit, or inform if you did not know, that semi auto's are the most popular type of rifle, so in no way do the "military grade" types account for a small portion of this number. But dude... there are 5,000,000 "assault rifles" owned by the public. I am bad at math, so bad I cannot figure out simple percentages learned in 8th grade, but even I can realize that the percentage accounting for "assault rifles that have actually assaulted" starts with a 0.00. We are quite literally talking thousandths of a percent of something.

I will further admit, or inform if you did not know, that there is a large chunk of gun violence stats called "weapon unknown", where police were not able to determine, or failed to note, what weapon was used. This chunk is not insignificant, it numbers in the many thousands, less than but closer to ten thousand. If you use the same ratios of known handgun vs shotgun vs rifle violence, this would add several hundred rifles to the mix. It would put the actual number of rifle violence right around 1,000 p/year, if memory serves. So, given the best case, most honest, fact based and report verified interpretation, using the entirety of rifles as opposed to guessing what percent is "assault", you have 0.02% actually committing assault.

I know what you believe. Please, and I say this with all sincerity, help me understand WHY you believe it. Even birth control can't boast this success rate. How does the AR-15 hold such a GD grip on your sensibilities?

Quote: Face

I'm a pedant. "Any" assault? I'd argue there's hardly a single thing in which you could be so definitive, and certainly not in such a multi-layered issue such as this. So no, you're not reasonably supposed to believe there will not be "any".

However, the number of people killed by rifles per year, and I am talking ALL rifles not limited to black plastic rifles, account for hundreds of deaths per year. And those indeed are low hundreds. 4XX here, 2xx there, year by year. I will fully admit, or inform if you did not know, that semi auto's are the most popular type of rifle, so in no way do the "military grade" types account for a small portion of this number. But dude... there are 5,000,000 "assault rifles" owned by the public. I am bad at math, so bad I cannot figure out simple percentages learned in 8th grade, but even I can realize that the percentage accounting for "assault rifles that have actually assaulted" starts with a 0.00. We are quite literally talking thousandths of a percent of something.

I will further admit, or inform if you did not know, that there is a large chunk of gun violence stats called "weapon unknown", where police where not able to determine, or failed to note, what weapon was used. This chunk is not insignificant, it numbers in the many thousands, less than but closer to ten thousand. If you use the same ratios of known handgun vs shotgun vs rifle violence, this would add several hundred rifles to the mix. It would put the actual number of rifle violence right around 1,000 p/year, if memory serves. So, given the best case, most honest, fact based and report verified interpretation, using the entirety of rifles as opposed to guessing what percent is "assault", you have 0.02% actually committing assault.

I know what you believe. Please, and I say this with all sincerity, help me understand WHY you believe it. Even birth control can't boast this success rate. How does the AR-15 hold such a GD grip on your sensibilities?

Because every few weeks there is another gun mass shooting. I dont care if its ar-15 or not

Because of stories like this:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/02/what-i-saw-treating-the-victims-from-parkland-should-change-the-debate-on-guns/553937/

The only real use for this weapon is mass killing of human beings. It was never meant to be in the hands of civilians. And I disagree heavily that the 2A guarantees that it does.

We aren't getting anywhere though and it doesn't look like we will. So whateva...

Trying to figure out if it is unfair to laugh at this Hogg “kid” for having problems getting into college because he is young and that’s not fair. Or should we listen to him because he is wise beyond his years?

Quote: terapined

Quote: terapined

Quote: wellwellwell

Quote: terapined

Quote: wellwellwell

Quote: terapined

Quote: wellwellwell

Quote: ThatDonGuy

Normally, I might agree with that, but you forget that Bernie Sanders pretty much says everything young voters want to hear - "Free college tuition! (Never mind that you still have to pay for room and board, and books...) Free healthcare for all! Tax the rich, and pretty much every 401(k) in the country - er, uh 'speculators'!" Add, "Stricter gun laws - going to school should not be Russian roulette!," and now you have a reason for a lot of these kids who probably would have stayed home on election day to show up - and if enough of them vote for Bernie-plan supporters in 2018, he has a foot in the door in 2020 to get his ideas passed into law.


Tell us something that wasn't obvious long before this march. To be fair, you now have to consider the Senate in play as well.

Sure terapined.
Sure ThatDontGuy.

Just like Hillary was gonna run away with the 2016 election.

Sorry, but all those people that said no to liberalism/socialism/communism and elected Trump are still out there and will keep voting.
The Democrats are gonna be in the desert for a long time. Watch.

I'm looking to watch you lose money
I am willing to bet that the Dems take the House
Bet?
By the way if we do bet, need a long time member to vouch for you

I know no one here. I'm willing to put up $100 in cash by mail today if you will do the same with someone here that we both agree upon and they are willing to hold the cash and distribute to the winner. The bet between WellWellWell and terapined is whether the Democrats take control of the US House in the November 2018 elections. I say no. You say yes.

I agree to the bet
Anybody want to hold the money?
Wiz? Mission? Axel? Soopoo? Face? BBB?

Great.
I have Nancy Pelosi and Maxine Waters on my side.
How can I lose?

Want to add more to the bet?
I believe Nancy and Maxine will win their seats
Are you willing to take the no?

Still looking for somebody to hold the money on the House bet between wellwellwell and terapined
There are lots of members on this site I trust including many conservatives

Hmm
Didn't Trump go hard after Pelosi and Maxine at a recent rally in PA due to a special election for a house seat in Trump country he won by 20 points
That campaign fodder was so underwhelming, a Dem won
How do you explain that?
ROTFL
A trusted member (AcesAndEights) has contacted you regarding holding our bets
You talk the talk
Lets see if you will walk the walk.

Oh you mean the special election where the seat goes away after this session and the incumbent has to run in another district?
I vote every election. I probably wouldn't have wasted the time to vote in that one. It was meaningless. Wait until it's for all the marbles and Trump fires up the "basket of deplorables" again.

I emailed AcesAndEights several hours ago. My PayPal account is now set up and ready to make the transfer.

Quote: Boz

Trying to figure out if it is unfair to laugh at this Hogg “kid” for having problems getting into college because he is young and that’s not fair. Or should we listen to him because he is wise beyond his years?

I think it's a mistake to write off the kids today. They've demonstrated they have the ability to organize and demonstrate. We can safely hold them responsible for moving the needle, even just a little bit, in this debate.

I understand you believe they have zero credibility. But what about this guy? Does he? Have some credibility? In the era of Trump, I doubt it, huh?

Quote: Steverinos

We aren't getting anywhere though and it doesn't look like we will. So whateva...

Indeed. Seems y'all are too entrenched in the emotional aspect to see the logic, and I lack the compassion to be moved to action. Perhaps someday we'll find each other. Until then, guess I'll play with gamerfreak for a bit now, since I missed his post yesterday...

Quote: gamerfreak

That said, I think it would behoove 2A advocates to make some small compromises. I think if nothing at all is done, we would then risk much more extreme measures eventually being put into place. A large amount of voters aren’t going to be happy with nothing at all being done.

What gun control measures, if any, would you be ok with?

What about any of these?

- Bumpstock Ban
- Raise minimum buying age to 21
- Mandatory NFA transfers for all firearms
- Buyback program for all magazines > 12 rounds

I’m not steadfast on any of that, just thinking out loud. Except for maybe the magazine buyback, all of those seem like fairly benign in terms of how much you are limiting constitutional rights.

This is the thing, though,... I keep seeing the charge that "we must oblige" or, as you and Babs put it, "it's in our best interest". I WANT to agree, but as I wrote but then deleted without posting,... I've been getting my dick kicked in for years; your request is akin to asking me to lend a leg of support to those wearing the boots. I pay extra for my gunner stuff to support bullet fingerprinting, a multi million dollar program that has resulted in absolutely nothing. It has no use. Yet I still pay for it. My weapons have been declared "illegal" because they contain cosmetic aspects that ignorant folks have labeled as "deadly or dangerous", where there is not one single fact anywhere to be found to support this claim. Pistol grips, flash suppressors, collapsible stocks. Go look these up yourself and find me a reliable report (aka none of the MSM, think more .gov/fbi) that even supports the idea that these do anything. You won't find it, yet I face serious risk all because someone had to do something and "it was in my best interest".

Why are the anti's not clamoring for actual solutions? Why are you not decrying these non-actions as much as your brother who's being persecuted under falsehood? We want a fix, too! We are not your enemy!

But directly to your point...

Bump stock ban is pointless. Just Google "bump firing". It's an action that requires not one single tool, modification, or accessory. Pull any semi - pistol, rifle, or shotgun - off a Walmart shelf and I'll bump fire it with my bare hands instantly. Ban it if you want, I do not care, do not like them, do not think it "infringes", do not think it "restricts", do not think it helps. I do know that'll be just one more felony I have to contend with; I guess add it to the list.

Age to 21? Unless we need to kill some brown folk on the other side of the world, right? ;) I dunno. I'm almost 40 now, hard to put myself there. I guess all I have to say is I see little difference between the maturity of 18 vs 21. And you're younger than me. How many of your friends can afford to blow $700 - $1,800 on anything? I'm indifferent to the age thing. Just don't see where it's gonna have an effect.

NFA specifically? Surely, you must be joking. I'm not very familiar with this part of gunnery, as it deals with Class III stuff which is about 300 leagues out of my price bracket. NICS and such, sure. Make sure I'm not on the list, absolutely. Want to know everything about all I have? GFY. To .gov, of course. Not telling you to GFY =p

Buyback? I can't imagine ever being against one, just realize what you need to do to make it effective. I personally have been on a financial crusade, so I haven't touched my stock capacity 30rounders in years. Put a retail price on them and I might be financially encouraged to part with them, as they only serve as a monument to civil discourse and I do not covet modern arms.

But, man... it's like I said. Call off the dogs. With what's happened in NY, I'd love nothing better than to acquire an MG-42 and mount it in the bed of my truck. As a middle finger, of course; I'm not implying I'm gonna start mowing down pols in Albany. I like to think I'm a reasonable dude and all, and what's got everyone's ire isn't even what I'm into (I like WWII bolt action rifles and big ol cowboy revolvers). Just stop poking me. We gunners could, and I argue should, be your allies in this. But they're not attacking the problem, they're attacking us. And in 20yrs of hockey, I've never once been able to supply an assist while defending my own zone.

Quote: Face

someone had to do something

Good acronym, SHT-DO's

Or reverse it.

Quote: wellwellwell

Quote: terapined

Quote: terapined

Quote: wellwellwell

Quote: terapined

Quote: wellwellwell

Quote: terapined

Quote: wellwellwell

Quote: ThatDonGuy

Normally, I might agree with that, but you forget that Bernie Sanders pretty much says everything young voters want to hear - "Free college tuition! (Never mind that you still have to pay for room and board, and books...) Free healthcare for all! Tax the rich, and pretty much every 401(k) in the country - er, uh 'speculators'!" Add, "Stricter gun laws - going to school should not be Russian roulette!," and now you have a reason for a lot of these kids who probably would have stayed home on election day to show up - and if enough of them vote for Bernie-plan supporters in 2018, he has a foot in the door in 2020 to get his ideas passed into law.


Tell us something that wasn't obvious long before this march. To be fair, you now have to consider the Senate in play as well.

Sure terapined.
Sure ThatDontGuy.

Just like Hillary was gonna run away with the 2016 election.

Sorry, but all those people that said no to liberalism/socialism/communism and elected Trump are still out there and will keep voting.
The Democrats are gonna be in the desert for a long time. Watch.

I'm looking to watch you lose money
I am willing to bet that the Dems take the House
Bet?
By the way if we do bet, need a long time member to vouch for you

I know no one here. I'm willing to put up $100 in cash by mail today if you will do the same with someone here that we both agree upon and they are willing to hold the cash and distribute to the winner. The bet between WellWellWell and terapined is whether the Democrats take control of the US House in the November 2018 elections. I say no. You say yes.

I agree to the bet
Anybody want to hold the money?
Wiz? Mission? Axel? Soopoo? Face? BBB?

Great.
I have Nancy Pelosi and Maxine Waters on my side.
How can I lose?

Want to add more to the bet?
I believe Nancy and Maxine will win their seats
Are you willing to take the no?

Still looking for somebody to hold the money on the House bet between wellwellwell and terapined
There are lots of members on this site I trust including many conservatives

Hmm
Didn't Trump go hard after Pelosi and Maxine at a recent rally in PA due to a special election for a house seat in Trump country he won by 20 points
That campaign fodder was so underwhelming, a Dem won
How do you explain that?
ROTFL
A trusted member (AcesAndEights) has contacted you regarding holding our bets
You talk the talk
Lets see if you will walk the walk.

Oh you mean the special election where the seat goes away after this session and the incumbent has to run in another district?
I vote every election. I probably wouldn't have wasted the time to vote in that one. It was meaningless. Wait until it's for all the marbles and Trump fires up the "basket of deplorables" again.

I emailed AcesAndEights several hours ago. My PayPal account is now set up and ready to make the transfer.

I see you kept your end of the deal
Wellwellwell is walking the walk. Count me impressed.
Just sent my 100.00
May the best party win
terapined and Wellwellwell have a bet
The USA House of Representatives this fall.
Every seat up for grabs.
My 100 says the Dems take back the House
Wellwellwell's 100 says the Republicans keep their majority
May the best party win
Shout out to AcesAndEights for holding the bet. Appreciate it

Quote: Boz

Trying to figure out if it is unfair to laugh at this Hogg “kid” for having problems getting into college because he is young and that’s not fair. Or should we listen to him because he is wise beyond his years?

I wouldn't exactly say he had "problems" getting into college. He was already accepted by some pretty decent schools and he has a 4.2 GPA. Probably smarter than I was at that age, and he'll probably end up much more successful.

Quote: lilredrooster

the kids are with all of us who want serious gun control measures

the kids are powerful.

the NRA is about to get its ass kicked

dumb ass bumper sticker slogans aren't going to cut it for them anymore

Florida just passed some new gun control measures. It wasn't much but it was something. Other states will follow.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/24/us/politics/students-lead-huge-rallies-for-gun-control-across-the-us.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=a-lede-package-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

"the kids are with all of us..."
Yes, young high school kids who are probably not registered to vote are not going to change anything.....

Raising the age to buy rifles to 21 will change nothing.....
Background checks will accomplish nothing......

Maybe these kids should have been marching against Obama giving "assault weapons" to Mexian Drug Lords.......



"An 11-year-old girl from Virginia, Naomi Wadler, captivated her audience as she declared “Never again!” on behalf of black women and girls who have been the victims of gun violence. " How many black teens are killed by AR-15s? Almost none, handguns obtained on the black market. Trust gang members do not go into a mom and pop shop and buy a weapon and do the paperwork, and get a permit to carry from the courthouse....

Quote: Steverinos

Because of stories like this:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/02/what-i-saw-treating-the-victims-from-parkland-should-change-the-debate-on-guns/553937/

The only real use for this weapon is mass killing of human beings. It was never meant to be in the hands of civilians. And I disagree heavily that the 2A guarantees that it does.

We aren't getting anywhere though and it doesn't look like we will. So whateva...

Not mass killings. But, yes killings. Rifles are better at precision. A machine guns is only useful for mass fire.
We have the right to have weapons because of the possibility of oppressive regimes or invasion. Guns are also used to stop killings.

Quote: Steverinos

I think it's a mistake to write off the kids today. They've demonstrated they have the ability to organize and demonstrate. We can safely hold them responsible for moving the needle, even just a little bit, in this debate.

I understand you believe they have zero credibility. But what about this guy? Does he? Have some credibility? In the era of Trump, I doubt it, huh?

It appears more each day Camera Hogg is a darling of the left. Media Matters had jumped in on his boycott and Laura made the fatal mistake of apologizing. She is learning quickly how vicious parts of the left are today. There is no compromise if you are on what they consider the wrong side of an issue.

Meanwhile the combination of people like you and Hogg are fueling record gun sales and donations to the NRA, even bypassing the greatest Gun Salesman of all time, Obama.

Keep coming for them, you are only putting more out there.

some posters are claiming the kids don't have any real power

right wing superstar Laura Ingraham publicly attacked one of the kids for having his college applications rejected and 630,000 kids responded urging her corporate sponsors to boycott her and Ingraham apologized. Several companies pulled their ads from her show.

Ingraham doesn't apologize very often. I've never heard of her doing it before.

the kids have power

don't kid yourself

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/03/29/laura-ingraham-savaged-for-taunting-parkland-activist-over-college-rejections/?utm_term=.0be7b9ab7b86


several posters are saying: the libs do this; the libs do that; the libs are always doing this, etc.


it's not going to fly dudes

you have to argue each issue on its merit. your blanket condemnation of the other side won't work anymore. people see through it.

Quote: lilredrooster

some posters are claiming the kids don't have any real power

right wing superstar Laura Ingraham publicly attacked one of the kids for having his college applications rejected and 630,000 kids responded urging her corporate sponsors to boycott her and Ingraham apologized. Several companies pulled their ads from her show.

Ingraham doesn't apologize very often. I've never heard of her doing it before.

the kids have power

don't kid yourself

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/03/29/laura-ingraham-savaged-for-taunting-parkland-activist-over-college-rejections/?utm_term=.0be7b9ab7b86


several posters are saying: the libs do this; the libs do that; the libs are always doing this, etc.


it's not going to fly dudes

you have to argue each issue on its merit. your blanket condemnation of the other side won't work anymore. people see through it.

And yet all these kids are using the lefts playbook line by line, yea they figured that out all on their own. But you are right, if they stick with it they will have voting power, no doubt. It’s a changing country, the participation trophy era is upon us.

Quote: Boz

And yet all these kids are using the lefts playbook line by line, yea they figured that out all on their own. But you are right, if they stick with it they will have voting power, no doubt. It’s a changing country, the participation trophy era is upon us.

I dont know if these kids are being helped to organize these rallies. Probably they are

But if you think anyone has the power to tell kids what to blindly do or think then you know nothing about children

Most likely these kids wanted to take a stand

What do kids do when they want something and are not sure how to go about it?

Come on you know the answer

They ASK! They ASK OLDER people for aid in how to achieve their goals

Now imagine this

Asking republicans for help in gun control adults answer:
"Why do that. I love my AR-15. Guns dont kill people kill. You are just a bunch of stupid kids what do you know no way you can organize something "

Asking democrats for help in gun control adults answer:
"Worthy cause. Of course we will help organize for you. Your message needs to be heard. Like gay marriage change is possible if your voice is heard. Lets get started and heres how"

Now which side do you think these kids finally got help from and why???

Quote: darkoz

I dont know if these kids are being helped to organize these rallies. Probably they are

But if you think anyone has the power to tell kids what to blindly do or think then you know nothing about children

Most likely these kids wanted to take a stand

What do kids do when they want something and are not sure how to go about it?

Come on you know the answer

They ASK! They ASK OLDER people for aid in how to achieve their goals

Now imagine this

Asking republicans for help in gun control adults answer:
"Why do that. I love my AR-15. Guns dont kill people kill. You are just a bunch of stupid kids what do you know no way you can organize something "

Asking democrats for help in gun control adults answer:
"Worthy cause. Of course we will help organize for you. Your message needs to be heard. Like gay marriage change is possible if your voice is heard. Lets get started and heres how"

Now which side do you think these kids finally got help from and why???

Wait, are you serious?

That’s......that’s not how any of this works. Lololol

Quote: Boz

And yet all these kids are using the lefts playbook line by line

you and others keep saying that

what in the world are you talking about?

the kids haven't said ONE THING about any issue other than gun control

the kids are not liberals. they ended up on the liberal side of this issue by circumstance.

their average age is about 16. most of them don't even know what the traditional liberal and traditional conservative points of view are re various other issues

Florida is a red state. It went for Trump in the popular vote.

It's a sure thing that the parents of a lot of these kids are not liberals.



just wait until 1 million plus kids start attacking the political hacks who oppose additional gun control measures

it's going to be a great show

I already bought my popcorn and I'm ordering a new LazyBoy recliner

Unfortunately youngsters tend to be liberal. When I was a kid, I didn’t realize things cost money. Hey there’s a house and no one’s living in it and over there is a homeless guy why can’t he move in? Oh this other guy is hungry and can’t buy food why don’t we just give him money so he can buy stuff? Why does it cost money to fix the roads, just get the material because surely it exists, do whatever you gotta do to fix the road, and there you go! Easy and it’s free, you don’t need money to do that. Then figured out you gotta pay people to fix stuff and money doesn’t just grow on trees and stuff costs $$$. I was like 5.

That’s how younger people think. It’s always been that way. They see something and think you just give it out for free and everything’s good because why should things cost money when the government can just give us free health care, free school & college, free food & money, free housing? This kind of thinking is literally retarded. They think it’s “progressive” and “helpful” yet it’s anything but that.

Quote: RS

. They see something and think you just give it out for free and everything’s good because why should things cost money when the government can just give us free health care, free school & college, free food & money, free housing? but that.

conservatives want free stuff too when it comes to themselves and their families. they don't turn it down.

they only don't want it for others who may be more needy than them.

do you think older conservatives who are drawing S.S. are going to demand cuts in S.S.?

do you think older conservatives are going to demand that the cost of Medicare for the individual goes up?

Dream on jumping jack flash.




and please don't anybody try to say that they paid for this stuff with their payroll deductions

what the average person gets out of it is much more than what they put it.

I don't blame them. that's just reality.

Oh how I was wish America was a dictatorship for 2 years with me as President. I would fix this hell hole. I would probably be shot to death like Kennedy was, but I think I will have done enough before the bankers got me and put this country on its path forward.

Simply put, you don't deserve a voice if you can't recite every single amendment in the Bill of Rights as well as having read and fully understanding each of the Articles written in the Constitution. If you don't have knowledge of the foundation that this country was founded upon and the history of it as well, you don't deserve a voice as well as any rights that our founding fathers died to protect and to give to each one of us. America was the first country ever to be truly 'free' and it's being taken away from us as each year goes by due to the mass uneducated public not being able to enforce their rights and keep the government in check. The only thing these kids know, is who Kim Kardashian, Kanye West, and Kylie Jenner etc are doing on the daily and being droned out of their minds by looking at their phone all day at pointless gossip.

These kids are allowed to have a voice when I bet 99% of them can't recite more than 3 of the amendments in the bill of rights or any 3 amendments out of the 27. Actually I'm willing to bet 99% of everyone under the age of 35 can't recite 3 of the 27 amendments currently ratified. The only amendment that these people know is the old cliched 'freedom of speech'. I have FREEDOM OF SPEECH! They also don't even realize the 1st amendment is more than just freedom of speech and i bet they can't even name the other freedoms in that amendment such as freedom of the press, religion, the right to assemble, the right to petition the gov't, etc. They don't realize the ability to petition the government for a redress of grievances is much more important than the so called freedom of speech and i bet none of them even knew about that, let alone what it even means. They also don't realize the most important amendment is the 5th amendment and the due process clause contained within, and without it, the 1st amendment is MEANINGLESS. If you're not guaranteed due process by the gov't, you would have no FREEDOMS.

Also let me be clear, I'm not trying to bash these kids. When I was their age, I was completely oblivious as well and hopefully they then learn as they grow up, but my point is these kids should not deserve to have a voice since they're simply so uneducated about this country. You can't just start raising your voice trying to get rid of the 2nd amendment just because of some reported mass shooting. That just screams agenda and probably bought out by agenda based politicians. They did whatever they could to get these kids recognition and TV time. I'm completely sickened.

Quote: lilredrooster

conservatives want free stuff too when it comes to themselves and their families. they don't turn it down.

they only don't want it for others who may be more needy than them.

do you think older conservatives who are drawing S.S. are going to demand cuts in S.S.?

do you think older conservatives are going to demand that the cost of Medicare for the individual goes up?

Dream on jumping jack flash.

I disagree with social security since it is essentially a ponzi scheme. It’s a tough cookie to crack because it just doesn’t make sense to keep it running, but it really needs to be removed. Granted, people have already paid into it and it’s unfair for them to get screwed on it. It’s just a lose-lose situation. And AFAIK, social security isn’t free since people have paid into it. I don’t care if you’re the most conservative red neck or the most liberal “free spirit thinker”, if you paid into it you’re entitled to it. And it’s not free. Correct me if I’m wrong anywhere in there.

IMO if you want “social security” you should invest/save a % if your income while you’re working so you can have a nice retirement nest egg.....and keep the government out of it. Why the hell is the government involved in this? That just doesn’t make sense. But whatever.

Quote: Boz

It appears more each day Camera Hogg is a darling of the left. Media Matters had jumped in on his boycott and Laura made the fatal mistake of apologizing. She is learning quickly how vicious parts of the left are today. There is no compromise if you are on what they consider the wrong side of an issue.

Its the right that has been vicious
Bottom line, in this country we are allowed to criticize politicians and current issues
Laura Ingraham has a real problem with that freedom
She practices that freedom every night.
I applaud her for that.
If you have a platform and lots of listeners, use that platform
This is America
Laura's problem, she cant deal with the other side having the same rights and using their platform
She actually hates basketball players like Labron, and Wade for speaking up
She criticizes basketball for doing exactly what she does, using a platform and letting your followers know your political views.

Quote: lilredrooster

conservatives want free stuff too when it comes to themselves and their families. they don't turn it down.

they only don't want it for others who may be more needy than them.

do you think older conservatives who are drawing S.S. are going to demand cuts in S.S.?

do you think older conservatives are going to demand that the cost of Medicare for the individual goes up?

Dream on jumping jack flash.




and please don't anybody try to say that they paid for this stuff with their payroll deductions

what the average person gets out of it is much more than what they put it.

I don't blame them. that's just reality.

You do realize there's no actual SS fund right? The gov't can end SS tomorrow. and they wouldn't owe you a dime. You also do realize all this wealth re-distribution is unconstitutional on its face such as Welfare right? You simply can't take from one and give it to another. Oh, my, where did everyone go wrong. The funny thing is, no one bats an eye because they're all drugged up on medication, drunk on the weekends, and droned out by their nightly TV news after a grueling 9-5 office job only to get home and pass out on their couch getting fed bullshit the rest of the night.

Quote: RS

if you paid into it you’re entitled to it. And it’s not free. Correct me if I’m wrong anywhere in there.

yeah, you're wrong

the average person gets way more out of S.S. and Medicare then what they put it

I haven't taken my S.S. yet but I know that IN THE FIRST YEAR ALONE I will get back almost as much as I put in

do you think conservatives are going to turn down help from the government when their house is damaged due to a hurricane and they don't have flood insurance?

do you think conservatives are going to advise their kids to turn down a reduced cost and higher risk student loan for their kids that is reduced cost and higher risk because it is guaranteed by the U.S. government?

do you think conservatives are going to turn down a real estate deduction on their taxes - which is free money for homeowners?

because owning a home is so critical to the American way of life? give me a break

Quote: ZenKinG

Oh how I was wish America was a dictatorship for 2 years with me as President. I would fix this hell hole. I would probably be shot to death like Kennedy was, but I think I will have done enough before the bankers got me and put this country on its path forward.

Simply put, you don't deserve a voice if you can't recite every single amendment in the Bill of Rights as well as having read and fully understanding each of the Articles written in the Constitution. If you don't have knowledge of the foundation that this country was founded upon and the history of it as well, you don't deserve a voice as well as any rights that our founding fathers died to protect and to give to each one of us. America was the first country ever to be truly 'free' and it's being taken away from us as each year goes by due to the mass uneducated public not being able to enforce their rights and keep the government in check. The only thing these kids know, is who Kim Kardashian, Kanye West, and Kylie Jenner etc are doing on the daily and being droned out of their minds by looking at their phone all day at pointless gossip.

These kids are allowed to have a voice when I bet 99% of them can't recite more than 3 of the amendments in the bill of rights or any 3 amendments out of the 27. Actually I'm willing to bet 99% of everyone under the age of 35 can't recite 3 of the 27 amendments currently ratified. The only amendment that these people know is the old cliched 'freedom of speech'. I have FREEDOM OF SPEECH! They also don't even realize the 1st amendment is more than just freedom of speech and i bet they can't even name the other freedoms in that amendment such as freedom of the press, religion, the right to assemble, the right to petition the gov't, etc. They don't realize the ability to petition the government for a redress of grievances is much more important than the so called freedom of speech and i bet none of them even knew about that, let alone what it even means. They also don't realize the most important amendment is the 5th amendment and the due process clause contained within, and without it, the 1st amendment is MEANINGLESS. If you're not guaranteed due process by the gov't, you would have no FREEDOMS.

Also let me be clear, I'm not trying to bash these kids. When I was their age, I was completely oblivious as well and hopefully they then learn as they grow up, but my point is these kids should not deserve to have a voice since they're simply so uneducated about this country. You can't just start raising your voice trying to get rid of the 2nd amendment just because of some reported mass shooting. That just screams agenda and probably bought out by agenda based politicians. They did whatever they could to get these kids recognition and TV time. I'm completely sickened.

Exactly. May I be your assistant dictator?

Quote: terapined

A trusted member (AcesAndEights) has contacted you regarding holding our bets
You talk the talk
Lets see if you will walk the walk.

Let the record show I have received $100 each from terapined and wellwellwell. At the conclusion of the 2018 midterms I will remand the full $200 to the winner: terapined if the Dems take the house; wellwellwell if the GOP maintains control. Since there is an odd number of seats, shouldn't be any reason for a push.

Happy to provide this service if anyone else needs an escrow account.

Quote: ZenKinG

Simply put, you don't deserve a voice if you can't recite every single amendment in the Bill of Rights as well as having read and fully understanding each of the Articles written in the Constitution.

Nope
Free Speech absolutist
Cant yell fire in a movie theatre and stuff like that
excluding that
I totally support free speech regardless of the intelligence and knowledge of the speaker
I cant stand Laura Ingraham but absolutely support her right to free speech
I don't like her bullying, but I support her right to bully and to deal with any consequences due to that bullying
Laura said Labron should shut up and dribble due to politics. sad
I support the right to free speech regardless of politics.

Quote: ZenKinG

Simply put, you don't deserve a voice if you can't recite every single amendment in the Bill of Rights

Especially the 3rd amendment. An annoying friend in the military asked to spend the night at my place and I told him I KNOW MY RIGHTS

Quote: ZenKinG

You do realize there's no actual SS fund right? The gov't can end SS tomorrow. and they wouldn't owe you a dime. You also do realize all this wealth re-distribution is unconstitutional on its face such as Welfare right? You simply can't take from one and give it to another. Oh, my, where did everyone go wrong. The funny thing is, no one bats an eye because they're all drugged up on medication, drunk on the weekends, and droned out by their nightly TV news after a grueling 9-5 office job only to get home and pass out on their couch getting fed bullshit the rest of the night.

Lol i double dare you to file a class action lawsuit claiming welfare is unconstitutional and many millions of americans are owed refunds due to unconstitutional wealth redistribution

And only a few pages ago someone said i spout delusional arguments lmao

Quote: AcesAndEights

Let the record show I have received $100 each from terapined and wellwellwell. At the conclusion of the 2018 midterms I will remand the full $200 to the winner: terapined if the Dems take the house; wellwellwell if the GOP maintains control. Since there is an odd number of seats, shouldn't be any reason for a push.

Happy to provide this service if anyone else needs an escrow account.

Just playing devil's advocate as I have no stake here, but there could be a seat (or any odd number of seats) won by an independent, making a tie possible. No independents currently in the House, but there is one in the Senate.