Men on strike
Quote: AZDuffman
We have all seen the case of the couple that marries relatively young, say early 20s. They are happy for a few years. Everyone knows they "want kids" or are "trying." They have one and all is well. They have another and things get less well. It might be less well after just one. After the youngest reaches toddlerhood the woman kicks the guy, though not his paycheck, to the curb. Often he walks because her attentions and affections are mostly to the kids, and he leaves though leaves much of that paycheck behind.
Nature at work? Maybe.
This is a laughable distortion of what happens. Perhaps accurate to some degree for, maybe, 10% of failed marriages, though you called this "the case of", not a generalization. The rest has a lot to do with men looking for companionship focused on them after they've impregnated their wife one or more times and her attention has to focus on the offspring as well as him. He didn't wreck his body having them, breast-feeding them, or being the primary caregiver in most homes; he continues on as usual in most ways, and if he CHOOSES to, adjusts his world to accept a changed situation. If not, he's constantly tempted and distracted with younger, less child-occupied women all around him. If the wife is a bread-winner before the pregnancy, she usually has to become part-time or quit for some years, making the both of them more dependent on the man, which is a huge burden for him and often resented. Some succumb to temptation and the wife looks the other way; others succumb and the wife realizes it and divorces; still others remain faithful but detach from the responsibility and day-to-day difficulties of wife-and-kids, and find affection and attention elsewhere eventually; and still others embrace being a family and change their worldview. No way of knowing what a man will be until he's faced with the situation.
Quote: beachbumbabsThis is a laughable distortion of what happens. Perhaps accurate to some degree for, maybe, 10% of failed marriages, though you called this "the case of", not a generalization. The rest has a lot to do with men looking for companionship focused on them after they've impregnated their wife one or more times and her attention has to focus on the offspring as well as him. He didn't wreck his body having them, breast-feeding them, or being the primary caregiver in most homes; he continues on as usual in most ways, and if he CHOOSES to, adjusts his world to accept a changed situation. If not, he's constantly tempted and distracted with younger, less child-occupied women all around him. If the wife is a bread-winner before the pregnancy, she usually has to become part-time or quit for some years, making the both of them more dependent on the man, which is a huge burden for him and often resented. Some succumb to temptation and the wife looks the other way; others succumb and the wife realizes it and divorces; still others remain faithful but detach from the responsibility and day-to-day difficulties of wife-and-kids, and find affection and attention elsewhere eventually; and still others embrace being a family and change their worldview. No way of knowing what a man will be until he's faced with the situation.
WOW, now this is a case of misandry if I have ever seen one. For the record, I stipulate that this kind of statement is exactly what drives men to go on strike.
Quote: beachbumbabsHe didn't wreck his body having them,
lolwut don't tell me some women blame their husbands for gaining 30lb during a pregnancy.
I blame myself for gaining weight by not eating right, and exercising. I didn't know I can blame someone else for my problems.
Quote: beachbumbabsNo way of knowing what a man will be
No way to know what a woman will do after
she has kids. Ignore the man completely and
drive him away, or do the smart thing and
dole out her attention equally and make it
a partnership. Women have always controlled
the relationships they're in, the men seldom
do. Men react, women control.
Quote: djatclolwut don't tell me some women blame their husbands for gaining 30lb during a pregnancy.
I blame myself for gaining weight by not eating right, and exercising. I didn't know I can blame someone else for my problems.
Yeah I have to agree with this. There's tons of women whom still stay in shape and a few weeks after having a baby look the same they did as before... Having a baby doesn't ruin ones body (vagina healing excluded =p). Not taking care of your body ruins ones body.
Not only that... I absolutely HATE how woman think this is a one sided thing. If you're in any kind of relatoinship with someone and you go through having a baby together, you've both suffered! It's the "guys job" to run out at 2am for weird food. It's the "guys job" to ingore the fact that you're "pregnancy crazy" and treat you like and equal even though you've been drooling on yourself most of the day. It's the "guys job" to do everything in his power to keep you stress free, happy, healthy, and provided for. Yet ALL OF THIS goes unnoticed by women because they're so self centered on "omg this baby is gonna ruin my body. You like owe me forever for having this baby for you." As if it's not OUR child that we'll BOTH raise.
Guys are so grossly under appreciated when it comes to pregnancy, or hell, even dealing with women whom have bad PMS. Ever had a gf who had really bad mood swings when she PMS'd? It's the "guys job" not to tell her she's being crazy, to go along with the shit flying out of her mouth, to understand she's 'supposed' to be crazy because that's part of being a woman... and that even though she's yelling at you for some fictitious fight she's had in her head for the last 2 days, you have to NOT argue back with her because YOU logically know she's not herself. Do you know how stressful and taxing it is to sit there and deal with someone you KNOW is PMS'ing and having a mood swing and not be able to do anything about it because anything and everything you say/do is wrong? If putting up with that TWO WEEKS a month isn't work, then hell I don't know what is.
Quote: RomesYeah I have to agree with this. There's tons of women whom still stay in shape and a few weeks after having a baby look the same they did as before... Having a baby doesn't ruin ones body (vagina healing excluded =p). Not taking care of your body ruins ones body.
Not only that... I absolutely HATE how woman think this is a one sided thing. If you're in any kind of relatoinship with someone and you go through having a baby together, you've both suffered! It's the "guys job" to run out at 2am for weird food. It's the "guys job" to ingore the fact that you're "pregnancy crazy" and treat you like and equal even though you've been drooling on yourself most of the day. It's the "guys job" to do everything in his power to keep you stress free, happy, healthy, and provided for. Yet ALL OF THIS goes unnoticed by women because they're so self centered on "omg this baby is gonna ruin my body. You like owe me forever for having this baby for you." As if it's not OUR child that we'll BOTH raise.
Guys are so grossly under appreciated when it comes to pregnancy, or hell, even dealing with women whom have bad PMS. Ever had a gf who had really bad mood swings when she PMS'd? It's the "guys job" not to tell her she's being crazy, to go along with the shit flying out of her mouth, to understand she's 'supposed' to be crazy because that's part of being a woman... and that even though she's yelling at you for some fictitious fight she's had in her head for the last 2 days, you have to NOT argue back with her because YOU logically know she's not herself. Do you know how stressful and taxing it is to sit there and deal with someone you KNOW is PMS'ing and having a mood swing and not be able to do anything about it because anything and everything you say/do is wrong? If putting up with that TWO WEEKS a month isn't work, then hell I don't know what is.
+1
____ just got realz
Glad to be celibate crew checking in
Quote: beachbumbabsHe didn't wreck his body having them, breast-feeding them, or being the primary caregiver in most homes;
Please...a woman's body doesn't have to be "wrecked"--that is more a choice than anything else. Change, of course...but wrecked?
Quote: RonCPlease...a woman's body doesn't have to be "wrecked"--that is more a choice than anything else. Change, of course...but wrecked?
Years ago at my gym there was a woman who trained...she was in great shape and got pregnant--I'd see her there all the time doing the elliptical and weights
About 9 months later she was absent from the gym for about 2 weeks
She had the baby, took 2 weeks off and was back to training
In a few weeks time - she was back to her pre-baby shape
Quote: aceofspadesYears ago at my gym there was a woman who trained...she was in great shape and got pregnant--I'd see her there all the time doing the elliptical and weights
About 9 months later she was absent from the gym for about 2 weeks
She had the baby, took 2 weeks off and was back to training
In a few weeks time - she was back to her pre-baby shape
I can understand saying that the body "changes" but it is only wrecked from neglect; the same way most of us get fat if we don't eat right and exercise. The pregnancy didn't do it, the food didn't do it, etc.--we allow it to happen to ourselves.
Quote: beachbumbabsThis is a laughable distortion of what happens. Perhaps accurate to some degree for, maybe, 10% of failed marriages, though you called this "the case of", not a generalization. The rest has a lot to do with men looking for companionship focused on them after they've impregnated their wife one or more times and her attention has to focus on the offspring as well as him. He didn't wreck his body having them, breast-feeding them, or being the primary caregiver in most homes; he continues on as usual in most ways, and if he CHOOSES to, adjusts his world to accept a changed situation. If not, he's constantly tempted and distracted with younger, less child-occupied women all around him. If the wife is a bread-winner before the pregnancy, she usually has to become part-time or quit for some years, making the both of them more dependent on the man, which is a huge burden for him and often resented. Some succumb to temptation and the wife looks the other way; others succumb and the wife realizes it and divorces; still others remain faithful but detach from the responsibility and day-to-day difficulties of wife-and-kids, and find affection and attention elsewhere eventually; and still others embrace being a family and change their worldview. No way of knowing what a man will be until he's faced with the situation.
10% of failed marriages? When a partner cheats it is usually because of being sex starved or emotionally in need. Both of these can be caused by one partner giving too much attention to kids. I don't know what the percentage is, but I am guess it is far more than 10%.
Also, acting like the man is always the one who cheats after kids, is misleading, its pretty close to 50/50 (men cheat more, but its close, and since women are also less likely to respond about that on surveys, it may be totally 50/50).
"re-up" at certain intervals
Quote: aceofspades... there should be term limits to marriage with the option to
re-up" at certain intervals
Like a cell phone plan. Because I heard those are fantastic XD
Quote: aceofspadesIMHO, most divorces come about due to the parties growing apart - each in separate rooms watching tv/internet/reading rather than spending time together and communicating — however, this is bound to happen as the people you were when you married are not the people you are 5 years, 10 years, etc. down the road - there should be term limits to marriage with the option to
"re-up" at certain intervals
I thought it was because of the husband sticking his "nose" into other people's businesses
and the wife tripping and falling in an out of another man's "nose"
Quote: djatcI thought it was because of the husband sticking his "nose" into other people's businesses
and the wife tripping and falling in an out of another man's "nose"
In all the years I've practiced divorce law, I can count on one hand how many times adultery was the cause of the divorce
Quote: aceofspadesIn all the years I've practiced divorce law, I can count on one hand how many times adultery was the cause of the divorce
What's the main cause, then.
Quote: EvenBobWhat's the main cause, then.
$$$
Quote: EvenBobWhat's the main cause, then.
Read up a few posts
I've often thought that it would be wonderful to have a woman who loved a guy, cared for him, wanted to make him happy. And when children came along, of course they are the main focus of their life, but she would still be in love with her guy, listen to him, want him to be happy--it would bring her joy to know he was happy, and he felt these same things for her. And she would trust and follow his decisions. And she would respect him. And he the same. She would not love him less because they had children, but more. When not parenting she would spend time with him. His vessel would be filled, her nurturing love would fill his soul. He would feel her love in abundance. It would caress him, allow his heart to sing, build a glow that would sustain him.
And when he gets a gift for her, he doesn't spend a small amount to obtain something that looks like more. He gets what makes her happy.
Quote: GreasyjohnThis thread brings up the idea of a woman shifting her love and attention form her husband to her children. I used to date a woman with children and I noticed how if she has to side between you and the kids she will overwhelmingly side with the kids.
I've often thought that it would be wonderful to have a woman who loved a guy, cared for him, wanted to make him happy. And when children came along, of course they are the main focus of their life, but she would still be in love with her guy, listen to him, want him to be happy--it would bring her joy to know he was happy, and he felt these same things for her. And she would trust and follow his decisions. And she would respect him. And he the same. She would not love him less because they had children, but more. When not parenting she would spend time with him. His vessel would be filled, her nurturing love would fill his soul. He would feel her love in abundance. It would caress him, allow his heart to sing, build a glow that would sustain him.
And when he gets a gift for her, he doesn't spend a small amount to obtain something that looks like more. He gets what makes her happy.
I think that is pure romantic fantasy - the kids usually come between the parents - as EvenBob has alluded to, men and women are not made for the long term together - different ideas on life, different interests - go to any party and, unless a guy is looking to get laid, the men hang out with the men and women with the women
Quote: GreasyjohnI've often thought that it would be wonderful to have a woman who loved a guy, cared for him, wanted to make him happy...
I think you've been listening to Stand by Your Man too much. I've never met a woman who didn't despise that song.
Quote: WizardI think you've been listening to Stand by Your Man too much. I've never met a woman who didn't despise that song.
I think both women and men will stand by someone if it benefits them in the long term (I.e. Hilary )
Quote: GreasyjohnThis thread brings up the idea of a woman shifting her love and attention form her husband to her children. I used to date a woman with children and I noticed how if she has to side between you and the kids she will overwhelmingly side with the kids.
One of my oldest friends married a woman
with 4 little kids and they had one of their
own. In any disagreement the kids had
with him, no matter how trivial, the wife
always 100% sided with the kids. So the
guy was totally alone. He eventually
stopped talking, got a full time mistress,
was gone a lot, and when the kids were
grown and gone, went back home full
time. You do what you gotta do.
Well John, as the story goes, God did offer that very same woman, to Adam.Quote: GreasyjohnI've often thought that it would be wonderful to have a woman who loved a guy, cared for him, wanted to make him happy. And when children came along, of course they are the main focus of their life, but she would still be in love with her guy, listen to him, want him to be happy--it would bring her joy to know he was happy, and he felt these same things for her. And she would trust and follow his decisions. And she would respect him. And he the same. She would not love him less because they had children, but more. When not parenting she would spend time with him. His vessel would be filled, her nurturing love would fill his soul. He would feel her love in abundance. It would caress him, allow his heart to sing, build a glow that would sustain him.
And Adam thought about it, and it sounded really good to Adam. So Adam asked God, "what is all that going to cost me"? And God replied to Adam, that is going to cost you an arm and a leg.
Adam asked God, what can I get for a rib?
Quote: petroglyphWell John, as the story goes, God did offer that very same woman, to Adam.
And Adam thought about it, and it sounded really good to Adam. So Adam asked God, "what is all that going to cost me"? And God replied to Adam, that is going to cost you an arm and a leg.
Adam asked God, what can I get for a rib?
Lol
Quote: petroglyphWell John, as the story goes, God did offer that very same woman, to Adam.
And Adam thought about it, and it sounded really good to Adam. So Adam asked God, "what is all that going to cost me"? And God replied to Adam, that is going to cost you an arm and a leg.
Adam asked God, what can I get for a rib?
The answer of course is that you can get a princess. Contrary to popular belief they are a not an endangered species and in fact are more common now then they have ever been.
lolQuote: kenarmanThe answer of course is that you can get a princess. Contrary to popular belief they are a not an endangered species and in fact are more common now then they have ever been.
Agreed, there be many princesses,,,and princes. "the effeminate generation"
Quote: WizardI think you've been listening to Stand by Your Man too much. I've never met a woman who didn't despise that song.
I just read the lyrics to that song and I didn't like it either. It is nothing like what I was saying.
Quote: beachbumbabsI've known dozens of couples who get it right, just as he discussed.
You must live in Bizarro World, where things
are the opposite of the real world. I know few
couples that 'got it' like you described.
Quote: WizardI think you've been listening to Stand by Your Man too much. I've never met a woman who didn't despise that song.
Most famously, Hillary Clinton, who IIRC later had to apologize to Tammy Wynette.
I just read the lyrics to make sure I'm not missing anything. If the idea of the song was followed, I think the divorce rate would fall. All it is saying is be there for the guy, and support him. Times will be tough, when the are he needs a supportive woman to get through it, not a woman making it even harder.
Interesting to see it was released in 1969, right at the dawn of the feminist movement. I don't know the back story, but I wonder if it was written as a warning to women not to act like men but compete with them?
This implies he flirts and probably cheats with other women. But, hey, he's just a man.
Quote: GreasyjohnStand By Your Man: (Partial lyrics) "You'll have bad times, he'll have good times, doin' things you don't understand." "But forgive him." "If you love him be proud of him." " He's just a man."
This implies he flirts and probably cheats with other women. But, hey, he's just a man.
Maybe it implies he likes sitting around watching football with a bunch of drunk guys, staying out too late and acting stupid when he has a hot, loving wife at home.
Quote: RonCMaybe it implies he likes sitting around watching football with a bunch of drunk guys, staying out too late and acting stupid when he has a hot, loving wife at home.
"But if you love him, you'll forgive him."
These lyircs weren't written because he spends too much time drinking and watching football with the guys.
Quote: Greasyjohn"But if you love him, you'll forgive him."
These lyircs weren't written because he spends too much time drinking and watching football with the guys.
The song was written in about 15 minutes. I doubt there was a whole lot of deeper meaning written in to it.
Quote: RonCThe song was written in about 15 minutes. I doubt there was a whole lot of deeper meaning written in to it.
There's no way a song entitled "Stand By Your Man" would be written because a man spends too much time drinking with the guys and watching football, or similar activities. And it's not the kind of thing a woman would "forgive" him for.
Quote: GreasyjohnThere's no way a song entitled "Stand By Your Man" would be written because a man spends too much time drinking with the guys and watching football, or similar activities. And it's not the kind of thing a woman would "forgive" him for.
Okay. You win. I'm just saying don't look for great depth of meaning in a song written in less time that it has taken you and I to go back and forth.
Quote: RonCOkay. You win. I'm just saying don't look for great depth of meaning in a song written in less time that it has taken you and I to go back and forth.
We expressed different views and no one insulted anyone. It's all good, Ron.
Quote: RonCOkay. You win. I'm just saying don't look for great depth of meaning in a song written in less time that it has taken you and I to go back and forth.
Totally agree, people read too much into song lyrics.
Take the Beatles and John Lennon. He was surprised people studied the lyrics.
He said " I just shove some sounds together then shove some words on top"
