1) There really is no finite end;

2) The numbers cannot be applied with reduced accuracy to the 'short term' a gambling session of 2-4-6-10 shoes, etc., unaccountable flucations that can take place anytime and anywhere during a finite test period.

I can only assume you did not read my post where I most definitively show you that statistics works equally well for 1 shoe, 2 shoes, etc. in making predictions. I even gave you concrete examples of those predictions. You just go on stating absolutely false things without regard for real information that is being provided to you, nor do you indicate that you have the least interest in pursuing self-education. You appear to be here for one purpose -- to stubbornly state false things to get a response from the board. That's called trolling.Quote:Baccaratfrom79There are two major flaws with all theories and the numbers derived from statistics of gambling:

1) There really is no finite end;

2) The numbers cannot be applied with reduced accuracy to the 'short term' a gambling session of 2-4-6-10 shoes, etc., unaccountable flucations that can take place anytime and anywhere during a finite test period.

You must think that we aren't professionals here. I gave up being a professor 6 years ago. Every penny I earn comes from my understanding of the mathematics of casino games. Though I am on the other side of the tables from the AP's, I have incredible respect for who they are and what they do. When these guys try and help you, you should listen. You're not going to get a second chance.

Quote:teliotYou appear to be here for one purpose -- to stubbornly state false things to get a response from the board. That's called trolling.

Absolutely not, wrong. Label it what you want for your own gloating. But it is not true.

Quote:Baccaratfrom79There are two major flaws with all theories and the numbers derived from statistics of gambling:

1) There really is no finite end;

2) The numbers cannot be applied with reduced accuracy to the 'short term' a gambling session of 2-4-6-10 shoes, etc., unaccountable flucations that can take place anytime and anywhere during a finite test period.

I'll also remention that teliot did explain this earlier. Both #1 and #2 you posted are incorrect.

For #1, read my last post on the previous page.

For #2, revisit teliots previous post on breaking down even 1 shoe or hand. Or, you can review my posts in other threads about standard deviations in which I start by finding the EV and SD of 1 hand of blackjack. You can absolutely break these down to 1 hand, shoe, hour, etc.

This thread, March 13th, 2015 at 7:03:09 PMQuote:RomesFor #2, revisit teliots previous post on breaking down even 1 shoe or hand. Or, you can review my posts in other threads about standard deviations in which I start by finding the EV and SD of 1 hand of blackjack. You can absolutely break these down to 1 hand, shoe, hour, etc.

Quote:teliotI can only assume you did not read my post where I most definitively show you that statistics works equally well for 1 shoe,

What's the next bet, then? Based on the

stats for 1 shoe, tell us where to place

the next bet. And don't say on B or P,

lets hear exactly where to place it. You

won't say because you have no idea

whatsoever what the next outcome will

be.

Quote:EvenBobWhat's the next bet, then? Based on the

stats for 1 shoe, tell us where to place

the next bet. And don't say on B or P,

lets hear exactly where to place it. You

won't say because you have no idea

whatsoever what the next outcome will

be.

100% correct. And exactly why Voo-Doo has a fair shake at prevailing. (call me trolling, I am not! I am a Seven Stars and a MGM Platinum player-I have played a while-not 10 minutes on a few hands and recklessly posting, I walk what I preach and I have done what I say)

Quote:Baccaratfrom79100% correct. And exactly why Voo-Doo has a fair shake at prevailing. (call me trolling, I am not!

Don't feel bad, every time I bring this subject

up they all start screaming TROLL!. So I never

mention it anymore.

Quote:EvenBobWhat's the next bet, then? Based on the

stats for 1 shoe, tell us where to place

the next bet. And don't say on B or P,

lets hear exactly where to place it. You

won't say because you have no idea

whatsoever what the next outcome will

be.

Of course he has no idea.

Nobody knows.

That's why it's called gambling.

B79 seems to argue that bringing out the monkey gives him a greater likelihood of winning.

Nope.

I did not call you a troll, I said that it appears that you are stubbornly stating false things to get a response from the board. My opinion is that such behavior constitutes trolling. I may be misinterpreting your behavior (hence I used the word "appears"). There is no doubt that you are stubbornly stating false things. The only question is motive.Quote:Baccaratfrom79call me trolling, I am not!

Of course, you could actually stop stubbornly stating false things and start learning from the experts here. If you can't tell who is an expert here, too bad for you. As I said, your opportunity for goodwill from the experts here will quickly pass you by if you continue.

Quote:MrVOf course he has no idea. Nobody knows.

Exactly. And knowing what the stats are

for 1 shoe gets us no closer to knowing

the next outcome. Betting on the next

outcome is the only one allowed, we can't bet

on an entire shoe all at once. So why

act like the stats for 1 shoe means anything.

Quote:RomesNo.. No, no. Stop it. Do not mislead people.

Which is more, all or infinity?

If you can't answer, then you don't know infinity either.

Quote:teliotI did not call you a troll, I said that it appears that you are stubbornly stating false things to get a response from the board. My opinion is that such behavior constitutes trolling. I may be misinterpreting your behavior (hence I used the word "appears"). There is no doubt that you are stubbornly stating false things. The only question is motive.

Of course, you could actually stop stubbornly stating false things and start learning from the experts here. If you can't tell who is an expert here, too bad for you. As I said, your opportunity for goodwill from the experts here will quickly pass you by if you continue.

So you are saying I am going to learn to play Baccarat properly by the math experts who count the game and use mathematics on a 100%, no a 1,000% random game where card values left have no bearing whatsoever on the next outcome. LOL, to the max.

Quote:Baccaratfrom79Challenge time, I put mine up, see table games. Put up or shut it up!

Well, who will be the almighty math AP'er to take the challenge?? Waiting..................tick.tick.tick,.tick........

Quote:teliotThat's called trolling.

Not quite, given that a wise man knows, "You can't win an argument with an ignorant man."

Quote:rudeboyoiWhat if you pull a card that isn't a face card when you pull your monkey statue out but it still wins the hand? Was that due to its voodoo? Idk the exact drawing rules but i imagine 2s, 3s, 4s are the cards you don't want to see when you're rooting for a monkey. Or do you only root for a monkey on ties?

Simple, when I and whomever I am with really needs a monkey (any face or pip 10 card) to come out. Doesn't matter if we win without a monkey, would still be a loss for the little guy---sad, but personally don't think that will happen. He is pretty special! Come on baby! Monkey Monkey!!! 4 or 6 or 8 wild crazy people screaming monkey, no AP'ers, we are all completely oblivious to math probably and just dumb enough for us to feed into it, but on the other hand are we really that dumb?

Quote:Baccaratfrom79Well, who will be the almighty math AP'er to take the challenge?? Waiting..................tick.tick.tick,.tick........

I'll take some of your action.

Quote:KerkebetWhich is more, all or infinity?

If you can't answer, then you don't know infinity either.

Infinity. All dictates there is a finite number in which is encapsulated from a start to a finish. I.e. a closed set. Infinity indicates no end (an open set), hence, infinite.

Okay, I know infinity. Please don't tell people things that I interpret as "yeah man, I was on some shrooms last weekend and figured out the world definitely don't know what infinity means, because it's like infinite or something, and we thought the pizza was infinite, but then it was gone. That's how we figured out we didn't truly understand!"

Quote:RomesInfinity. All dictates there is a finite number in which is encapsulated from a start to a finish. I.e. a closed set. Infinity indicates no end (an open set), hence, infinite.

Not quite. (I's a much harder problem once you understand it in its context.)

The basic problem with your earlier attempt, regardless the specific application, is that not all limits at infinity converge. What when the result is divergence, itself?

Beyond this, know that mathematicians, let alone physicists, still refer to infinity as the UNDEFINED. How could anyone not at least check a dictionary?

Quote:RomesOkay, I know infinity. Please don't tell people things that I interpret as "yeah man, I was on some shrooms last weekend and figured out the world definitely don't know what infinity means, because it's like infinite or something, and we thought the pizza was infinite, but then it was gone. That's how we figured out we didn't truly understand!"

Not exactly a reasonable response, in any case. Perhaps, a tad rude...

Quote:RSCan we please get rid of this BS? It is now obvious that he is trolling.

To me, the AP stuff is much bigger BS because people actually believe in it. Regulars know what to expect in a different, much safer, manner.

And for the most part, AP's "sucker" others into it with nothing to show up front but a lot of secrecy... to more convince themselves. And, what cost to break into the so-called "crusher" circles? Sell books or open a web site, would be a lot easier.

Just because blackjack is beatable in theory, don't expect many casinos to just pay you off. One heck of a hard way to make some easy money, if you ask me.

I've been around the block too, but I've no urges to expound (or become hampered by others' attempts at doing so).

Definitely no urge to become a human card shuffler/tracker awaiting the mucking...

I agree with Teliot (a rare thing) about your intentions. I feel you pulled a switcheroo on us. From what I remember you started off convincing us you were just a guy who knew he was playing a losing game and didn't care, someone with zero advantage, a non system player, you said nothing about voodoo, superstitiousness, skill etc. You claimed you could not beat the game, but simply loved to gamble(thats the feeling I got)

But then... You started sneaking in hints how good of a baccarat player you are. Then bam!!! You dropped the hammer on us and your started to sound like gr8player and many others. They also refused to change (their posts) we all know what eventually happened to them. I believe mike gently asked that Gr8player not return . Gr8player had the patients of a saint concerning how many people ganged up on him. It's been said many times(not by me) system players are not welcome here. You can claim you don't use a system all you want however you do use a bogus system hidden in superstitions and gut feelings. You can be ahead 100k however that's not skill or due to any legitimate system, its purely luck.

Quote:AxelWolfI feel you pulled a switcheroo on us. But then... You started sneaking in hints how good of a player you are. Then bam!!! You dropped the hammer on us and you started to sound like many others.

Same went for mc, and the other AP's who were at it too long, never finding that which they really sought. I guess that in the end, gambling is another undefinable quantity. The more you think about it, the further off you drift into craziness.

Quote:BeardgoatI was I itially in support of 79, but the last couple days it really seems like he is trying to instigate and bait the AP side. The monkey thing is ridiculously

Chapter four.

If history was correct, will not be a chapter five.

Add on: CIAO

Quote:AxelWolfThis monkey business is nonsense .

The monkey business started in EUR, who

brought bac to Asia. In those days they

would shout 'monarchy monarchy' when they

wanted a face card to appear. When the

Asian's said 'monarchy' it came out sounding

like 'monkey'. So it became monkey after a

time.

You chopped out a significant amount of my post in this quote. I have no clue what or who you are talking about other than MC I don't know any REAL AP's from this forum "who were at it too long, never finding that which they really sought"Quote:KerkebetSame went for mc, and the other AP's who were at it too long, never finding that which they really sought. I guess that in the end, gambling is another undefinable quantity. The more you think about it, the further off you drift into craziness.

Mickeys problems had nothing to do with anything other than a rough youth and a escalating drinking problem period. The guy is a excellent writer when he is sober and an interesting character.

Other than him the only people that go off the rails of the crazy train are not APs they are system bettors or DIs. Notice a trend? Guys go crazy trying to prove the impossible and convince others they can defy the odds.

--Taking down your bets when someone tosses the chips off the table (or any number of reasons people take down their bets)

--Using a roulette pattern or something

--Tossing $10 or $25 on the "17" in roulette every once in a while

...and any number of other plays that give you no advantage at all but make you feel like they will have a better result?

--The monkey doesn't change the math; I don't recall him saying that it did

--He never said that he wins every time but he has had good luck with the monkey

...and what seems to be the kicker....

The guy has fun playing Baccarat. Imagine! The math says that he will lose; he knows that. He doesn't get too deep when he starts off losing and he goes large when he is winning. That could result in more small losing sessions (quitting at an initial loss and doing something else), a lot of fairly even sessions (giving back money on a early win but not going in the hole), and some big wins (keeps going when ahead).

Quote:RonCWhat is there to "support" or "not support"? This is a forum that focuses on Vegas and Math...not Vegas Math. This thread is about one guy playing baccarat in Vegas. B79 hasn't said that he can beat the math in any way other than he has a lucky Monkey he employs if he feels like it. That is somehow more harmful than:

--Taking down your bets when someone tosses the chips off the table (or any number of reasons people take down their bets)

--Using a roulette pattern or something

--Tossing $10 or $25 on the "17" in roulette every once in a while

...and any number of other plays that give you no advantage at all but make you feel like they will have a better result?

--The monkey doesn't change the math; I don't recall him saying that it did

--He never said that he wins every time but he has had good luck with the monkey

...and what seems to be the kicker....

The guy has fun playing Baccarat. Imagine! The math says that he will lose; he knows that. He doesn't get too deep when he starts off losing and he goes large when he is winning. That could result in more small losing sessions (quitting at an initial loss and doing something else), a lot of fairly even sessions (giving back money on a early win but not going in the hole), and some big wins (keeps going when ahead).

Yet bac79 is supporting the opposite.

Quote:RSYet bac79 is supporting the opposite.

Quote:B79I have lost and I have won. Lost a lot and won lots.

He is supporting only that he thinks his lucky monkey brings him...luck.

That is pretty much the gist of it...

It brings me luck.

It can't.

It does.

It can't.

I get lucky when I use it.

Your trolling.

Let it go, math guys. He didn't say the monkey somehow defies the math; he just said that it has been lucky for him. He's not attacking your math or, more correctly, the math of the game. It is a game with a little over 1% house edge. It is easy to see how the monkey could well be used and seem to work with so little difference between winning and losing. Let him have the monkey and you keep the math.

...or continue to attack. He'll leave and we'll lose a colorful poster who has offered meals, etc. to people not to prove his math is right but because he likes having a good time in Vegas. Maybe will get yet another member who can toss out lines of equations. Me? I like both. I like a colorful story and I like learning the math.

Quote:teliotI can only assume you did not read my post where I most definitively show you that statistics works equally well for 1 shoe, 2 shoes, etc. in making predictions. I even gave you concrete examples of those predictions. You just go on stating absolutely false things without regard for real information that is being provided to you, nor do you indicate that you have the least interest in pursuing self-education. You appear to be here for one purpose -- to stubbornly state false things to get a response from the board. That's called trolling.

You must think that we aren't professionals here. I gave up being a professor 6 years ago. Every penny I earn comes from my understanding of the mathematics of casino games. Though I am on the other side of the tables from the AP's, I have incredible respect for who they are and what they do. When these guys try and help you, you should listen. You're not going to get a second chance.

Professor, if I can learn something from you before the guy leaves and this thread turns cold.

Isn't science and cosmology in a state of flux now as in the observable universe stars have been seen to travel greater than the speed of light. This means the laws of physics as we know it is wrong and Einstein's theory is faulty.

I thought there is consensus in the scientific community that there is no infinity.

What is the latest thinking on the multiverse world instead of the universe.

Quote:RonCWhat is there to "support" or "not support"? This is a forum that focuses on Vegas and Math...not Vegas Math. This thread is about one guy playing baccarat in Vegas. B79 hasn't said that he can beat the math in any way other than he has a lucky Monkey he employs if he feels like it. That is somehow more harmful than:

--Taking down your bets when someone tosses the chips off the table (or any number of reasons people take down their bets)

--Using a roulette pattern or something

--Tossing $10 or $25 on the "17" in roulette every once in a while

...and any number of other plays that give you no advantage at all but make you feel like they will have a better result?

--The monkey doesn't change the math; I don't recall him saying that it did

--He never said that he wins every time but he has had good luck with the monkey

...and what seems to be the kicker....

The guy has fun playing Baccarat. Imagine! The math says that he will lose; he knows that. He doesn't get too deep when he starts off losing and he goes large when he is winning. That could result in more small losing sessions (quitting at an initial loss and doing something else), a lot of fairly even sessions (giving back money on a early win but not going in the hole), and some big wins (keeps going when ahead).

My successful large wins come at the casino's expense. I parlay and progress using my 1/3-1/3-1/3 method with my winnings. Works extremely well for me.

Quote:RonCHe is supporting only that he thinks his lucky monkey brings him...luck.

That is pretty much the gist of it...

Let it go, math guys. He didn't say the monkey somehow defies the math; he just said that it has been lucky for him. He's not attacking your math or, more correctly, the math of the game. It is a game with a little over 1% house edge. It is easy to see how the monkey could well be used and seem to work with so little difference between winning and losing. Let him have the monkey and you keep the math.

q]

Spot on. Was I disrespectful to you? Did I chastise or humiliate you? If I said something in gist or pun, and it offended I wholeheartedly apologize, but my monkey has made me money. I challenge none of your math, I know what I do and I played thousands of shoes.Bac79=Hazardous Material and Chemical person correcting other's mistakes. Non AP'er, I can't count cards, low intelligence. Sprinkles magical dust on the cards. Has a lucky monkey. Baby also has a green one. Sum it up: "It's okay just blame me, it's all my fault"! ( No one believes me--so I chose to stop posting)

Watch this:Quote:Deck007Professor, if I can learn something from you before the guy leaves and this thread turns cold.

Isn't science and cosmology in a state of flux now as in the observable universe stars have been seen to travel greater than the speed of light. This means the laws of physics as we know it is wrong and Einstein's theory is faulty.

I thought there is consensus in the scientific community that there is no infinity.

What is the latest thinking on the multiverse world instead of the universe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ImvlS8PLIo

and then this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwCCMHH378Q

Thanks Bob. I was referring to how he claims somehow his monkey charm can help him win. It's total BS that he can predict the best time to place winning bets or back off losing bets.Quote:EvenBobThe monkey business started in EUR, who

brought bac to Asia. In those days they

would shout 'monarchy monarchy' when they

wanted a face card to appear. When the

Asian's said 'monarchy' it came out sounding

like 'monkey'. So it became monkey after a

time.

If the monkey helps when he brings it out why not whip that monkey out every hand.

Quote:RonCHe is supporting only that he thinks his lucky monkey brings him...luck.

That is pretty much the gist of it...

It brings me luck.

It can't.

It does.

It can't.

I get lucky when I use it.

Your trolling.

Let it go, math guys. He didn't say the monkey somehow defies the math; he just said that it has been lucky for him. He's not attacking your math or, more correctly, the math of the game. It is a game with a little over 1% house edge. It is easy to see how the monkey could well be used and seem to work with so little difference between winning and losing. Let him have the monkey and you keep the math.

...or continue to attack. He'll leave and we'll lose a colorful poster who has offered meals, etc. to people not to prove his math is right but because he likes having a good time in Vegas. Maybe will get yet another member who can toss out lines of equations. Me? I like both. I like a colorful story and I like learning the math.

No. He's saying when he brings it out, the monkey cards come out. If doing something causes something else to happen, then that's not luck.

What is so wrong about people having fun and great darn time in VEGAS? Especially at the places advertised and on this board??

NO matter what a gambler or a tourist does when he gambles, why would experienced, educated and thoughtful people on the board enjoy to knock them down and chastise them to the point of not wanting to gamble in Vegas or change their ways.

Again, what is so wrong about patronizing the casinos, restaurants, shows, pool cabanas, and shopping places that are either advertised or talked about on this board?????

Closing statement: I used to own a gas station/c store. Had a customer for years, came in with the first ever brand new car he ever bought. Smiling ear to ear. Asked me how I Liked his shiny new blue car? I said it was more of a greenish color. Guy never came in again. I found out form another gas station/c store owner he said I was an asshole and called his car a color it wasn't and he hated green. He was only about 1/100,000 or maybe not even of my business, he probably told all his family and friends and maybe 10 or 15 people stop coming to my store and station everyday??? IDK, but the bottom line is I stepped on my dick with that one and tried to never do it again.

Quote:RSNo. He's saying when he brings it out, the monkey cards come out. If doing something causes something else to happen, then that's not luck.

I am sure the monkey has (or will) fail but it really is the same thing as people who turn their bets off when a new dealer taps in or someone tosses the dice off the table at the craps table...the math may not matter, but somehow those events seem to coincide a lot with when the 1 in 7 chance the 7 shows up happens. I leave my bets up based on the fact that the dice don't know...and I've seen a lot of sevens happen right then. My "knowledge" doesn't keep the chips from being swept away.

It is a monkey. He's had some luck with it. Why is that such a big deal? he didn't say it changed the math but everyone is trying to prove he is wrong based on the math.

Vegas should be fun for all of us but the true APs. If you aren't having fun and doing it your way once you know the odds of the game, why the heck go or talk about it?

Because he's trying to insinuate there's more to baccarat than just luck. Reading between the lines and in plain view, he's saying he can beat baccarat using trends and a funky F**king monkey.Quote:RonCI am sure the monkey has (or will) fail but it really is the same thing as people who turn their bets off when a new dealer taps in or someone tosses the dice off the table at the craps table...the math may not matter, but somehow those events seem to coincide a lot with when the 1 in 7 chance the 7 shows up happens. I leave my bets up based on the fact that the dice don't know...and I've seen a lot of sevens happen right then. My "knowledge" doesn't keep the chips from being swept away.

It is a monkey. He's had some luck with it. Why is that such a big deal? he didn't say it changed the math but everyone is trying to prove he is wrong based on the math.

Vegas should be fun for all of us but the true APs. If you aren't having fun and doing it your way once you know the odds of the game, why the heck go or talk about it?

Logical people don't like that silly talk it's hogwash and people like calling out hogwash, it's insulting and misleading, it could just be a simple pet peeve. I guess we could all just ignore it , just like you could ignore anyone who opposes him.

Obviously people like talking about this crap, just like someone might enjoy reading about what you had for dinner at some fancy restaurant, personally I can't stand reading restaurant reports.

Haha. You've asked several times and are always met with silence. Just as well, it was obvious from the beginning it was a Brian Williams recollection.Quote:1BBPlease don't leave until you've told us about your helicopter rescue from the roof of the burning MGM hotel in 1980, the deadliest fire in Nevada history and the third loss of life hotel fire in modern US history.

Your turn.

BTW, have you upgraded the software on your BS detector? :-0

Quote:chickenmanHaha. You've asked several times and are always met with silence. Just as well, it was obvious from the beginning it was a Brian Williams recollection.

BTW, have you upgraded the software on your BS detector? :-0

Careful, Brian Williams may be a member here. Wouldn't want to insult him.

I did make that upgrade. It was a simple matter of getting a larger fan to alleviate the constant overheating of the device.

I wasn't going to tell this story but what the heck. I was in Las Vegas in two thousand and something. We were staying at the Montecito, fully comped of course, in a beautiful suite. My host was Sam, the cab driver was Herb, the valet was Mike, the guy mowing the lawn was Fred, the dealer was Linda, a former stripper......

One night the owner of the hotel, Monica something, was blown off the roof by a gust of wind. Right in front of me. She flew to the Wynn and landed in a shoe store - dead. Now I know you want more details so here you go. The shoes were designer and cost $1200. I bought them for my wife. The sales clerk's name was Tammy. I tipped her a couple of black chips.

Quote:Baccaratfrom79the bottom line is I stepped on my dick with that one

BTW, your monkey is more of a greenish color than gold.

Quote:Baccaratfrom79

What is so wrong about people having fun and great darn time in VEGAS? Especially at the places advertised and on this board??

Again, what is so wrong about patronizing the casinos, restaurants, shows, pool cabanas, and shopping places that are either advertised or talked about on this board?????

Quote:RonC

It is a monkey. He's had some luck with it. Why is that such a big deal? he didn't say it changed the math but everyone is trying to prove he is wrong based on the math.

I will try one more time...

Because the claim that the monkey produces tens on command, by definition, changes the math of the game. It is a very simple concept to understand, even if like me, you could not begin to compute to what degree it changes. Every single game, from BJ to Poker to War to Go Fish has a moment where all you need is a (insert card value here) to win. And if you can make it appear, the game loses its randomness, which is what all the math is based on. Surely this very basic concept is not outside of your reach.

There is a chance that Bac79 doesn't understand how the math works. That's fine. At one point, none of us did either. But now he has been informed time and again that this is exactly how it works, and Bac79 has given us no reason to suspect that he is a stupid man. Bac79, your claim that you're "not saying that you're changing the math" and your claim that "the monkey produces tens" are mutually exclusive. They're contradictions. They cannot, under any circumstances, be simultaneously true. Either your monkey produces tens which changes the math, or your monkey is useless and the math does not change. There Is No Other Option.

No one is lamenting your fun. No one is lamenting your trip reports. A large part of this forum are recreational gamblers who don't give a rip about probabilities or standard deviation. Ask your new friend Ace. He gets tons of views and replies every time he goes to AC, using a system known to not be "mathematically efficient". Yet people still eat them up and he is loved by many.

But there is an equally large group who make their bread and butter based on the math. Some of them, like teliot, do the math and make money consulting for casinos. Some, like miplet, do the math and make money from game inventors. Some, like Axel, do the math and make money AP'ing. And if one of their prospective clients or partners happened see that they participate on a forum or in a thread that contains math concepts so blatantly wrong, it hurts their prospective earnings and reputations. Who would go to an "expert" who accepted such an easily identifiable and obviously wrong math based theory? No one, that's who. So every single math person will continue to fight every false claim every single time they are made. Ask EB. Ask 98steps. Ask varmenti. Ask gr8player. Ask RobSinger...

This is the source of resistance, this is the reason for the question if you're trolling. Not your frequent posts, not your off topic stories about work, not your high roller lifestyle or seriously in depth and well made trip reports. This faulty "monkey math" that you state both "works and changes the math" while at the same time "doesn't change the math" is the source of every bit of your conflict.

By my count, this is at least the 5th time it's been explained, which is why you have received the questions about trolling. Since the source and reasons behind the challenges are very simple to understand, postings such as "what's wrong with having fun" seem to be almost a purposeful ignorance, as you must know by now that it's not the "fun" that people are challenging.

You seem bothered by the constant challenges, and I'll take that as a genuine emotion. All of the above is why you keep getting challenged. I posted this as a last attempt that you'll "get it", as I'm still going to assume you're a genuine person. Lose the "monkey changes the math / monkey doesn't change the math" contradictory belief, and 95% of your problem goes away. If you don't, there are too many people who've reputations to protect, and their challenges will never, ever end.

Quote:FaceI will try one more time...

Because the claim that the monkey produces tens on command, by definition, changes the math of the game. It is a very simple concept to understand, even if like me, you could not begin to compute to what degree it changes. Every single game, from BJ to Poker to War to Go Fish has a moment where all you need is a (insert card value here) to win. And if you can make it appear, the game loses its randomness, which is what all the math is based on. Surely this very basic concept is not outside of your reach.

There is a chance that Bac79 doesn't understand how the math works. That's fine. At one point, none of us did either. But now he has been informed time and again that this is exactly how it works, and Bac79 has given us no reason to suspect that he is a stupid man. Bac79, your claim that you're "not saying that you're changing the math" and your claim that "the monkey produces tens" are mutually exclusive. They're contradictions. They cannot, under any circumstances, be simultaneously true. Either your monkey produces tens which changes the math, or your monkey is useless and the math does not change. There Is No Other Option.

No one is lamenting your fun. No one is lamenting your trip reports. A large part of this forum are recreational gamblers who don't give a rip about probabilities or standard deviation. Ask your new friend Ace. He gets tons of views and replies every time he goes to AC, using a system known to not be "mathematically efficient". Yet people still eat them up and he is loved by many.

But there is an equally large group who make their bread and butter based on the math. Some of them, like teliot, do the math and make money consulting for casinos. Some, like miplet, do the math and make money from game inventors. Some, like Axel, do the math and make money AP'ing. And if one of their prospective clients or partners happened see that they participate on a forum or in a thread that contains math concepts so blatantly wrong, it hurts their prospective earnings and reputations. Who would go to an "expert" who accepted such an easily identifiable and obviously wrong math based theory? No one, that's who. So every single math person will continue to fight every false claim every single time they are made. Ask EB. Ask 98steps. Ask varmenti. Ask gr8player. Ask RobSinger...

This is the source of resistance, this is the reason for the question if you're trolling. Not your frequent posts, not your off topic stories about work, not your high roller lifestyle or seriously in depth and well made trip reports. This faulty "monkey math" that you state both "works and changes the math" while at the same time "doesn't change the math" is the source of every bit of your conflict.

By my count, this is at least the 5th time it's been explained, which is why you have received the questions about trolling. Since the source and reasons behind the challenges are very simple to understand, postings such as "what's wrong with having fun" seem to be almost a purposeful ignorance, as you must know by now that it's not the "fun" that people are challenging.

You seem bothered by the constant challenges, and I'll take that as a genuine emotion. All of the above is why you keep getting challenged. I posted this as a last attempt that you'll "get it", as I'm still going to assume you're a genuine person. Lose the "monkey changes the math / monkey doesn't change the math" contradictory belief, and 95% of your problem goes away. If you don't, there are too many people who've reputations to protect, and their challenges will never, ever end.

Face,

I TOTALLY get it. B867-5309 will have to state whether he gets it for himself or not.

My position is simple--I play a negative expectation game and I know that the math is against me on every single roll of the dice (since craps is my game). This site taught me that it makes no difference if you turn the bets "off" or "on" when the stick changes or when dice go off the table and I am betting most everyone knows that. Still, many players turn them "off" even with the math showing it does not matter. Does it help? Well, not mathematically...but they don't lose when the "7" shows on that roll...so they gain confidence that it helps and do it again and again. Me? I just lose when the "7" rolls with confidence that it doesn't really happen ever time...even if it seems like it does...

Negative game. Nothing can change it. The monkey doesn't change the math. Just entertain the idea that the monkey comes out and he seems to win more then--which isn't outlandish because the 1% or so house advantage means he is playing pretty close to even anyway...but still a negative expectation game.

Quote:RSIt's 867 not 876.

Dyslexia. Thanks.

Quote:FaceI will try one more time...

Because the claim that the monkey produces tens on command, by definition, changes the math of the game. It is a very simple concept to understand, even if like me, you could not begin to compute to what degree it changes. Every single game, from BJ to Poker to War to Go Fish has a moment where all you need is a (insert card value here) to win. And if you can make it appear, the game loses its randomness, which is what all the math is based on. Surely this very basic concept is not outside of your reach.

There is a chance that Bac79 doesn't understand how the math works. That's fine. At one point, none of us did either. But now he has been informed time and again that this is exactly how it works, and Bac79 has given us no reason to suspect that he is a stupid man. Bac79, your claim that you're "not saying that you're changing the math" and your claim that "the monkey produces tens" are mutually exclusive. They're contradictions. They cannot, under any circumstances, be simultaneously true. Either your monkey produces tens which changes the math, or your monkey is useless and the math does not change. There Is No Other Option.

No one is lamenting your fun. No one is lamenting your trip reports. A large part of this forum are recreational gamblers who don't give a rip about probabilities or standard deviation. Ask your new friend Ace. He gets tons of views and replies every time he goes to AC, using a system known to not be "mathematically efficient". Yet people still eat them up and he is loved by many.

But there is an equally large group who make their bread and butter based on the math. Some of them, like teliot, do the math and make money consulting for casinos. Some, like miplet, do the math and make money from game inventors. Some, like Axel, do the math and make money AP'ing. And if one of their prospective clients or partners happened see that they participate on a forum or in a thread that contains math concepts so blatantly wrong, it hurts their prospective earnings and reputations. Who would go to an "expert" who accepted such an easily identifiable and obviously wrong math based theory? No one, that's who. So every single math person will continue to fight every false claim every single time they are made. Ask EB. Ask 98steps. Ask varmenti. Ask gr8player. Ask RobSinger...

This is the source of resistance, this is the reason for the question if you're trolling. Not your frequent posts, not your off topic stories about work, not your high roller lifestyle or seriously in depth and well made trip reports. This faulty "monkey math" that you state both "works and changes the math" while at the same time "doesn't change the math" is the source of every bit of your conflict.

By my count, this is at least the 5th time it's been explained, which is why you have received the questions about trolling. Since the source and reasons behind the challenges are very simple to understand, postings such as "what's wrong with having fun" seem to be almost a purposeful ignorance, as you must know by now that it's not the "fun" that people are challenging.

You seem bothered by the constant challenges, and I'll take that as a genuine emotion. All of the above is why you keep getting challenged. I posted this as a last attempt that you'll "get it", as I'm still going to assume you're a genuine person. Lose the "monkey changes the math / monkey doesn't change the math" contradictory belief, and 95% of your problem goes away. If you don't, there are too many people who've reputations to protect, and their challenges will never, ever end.

Okay, you prevail. Thanks.