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RonC
RonC
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January 7th, 2016 at 3:57:03 PM permalink
They always talk about having "standing" to file a suit against someone as a big reason for politicians not being allowed to be sued for things they do
--the initial judge reviews the case, says the plaintiff does not have "standing" and the suit goes away.

My question is this:

What point does Ted Cruz have to reach before someone would have "standing" to sue him for not being a natural-born citizen? Who would have standing to sue him>

(Okay--I think he, McCain, Ford, Obama...all of them...are citizens anyway. I am just asking when it could be legally tested and who could sue him.)
Wizard
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Wizard
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January 7th, 2016 at 4:10:30 PM permalink
Quote: SanchoPanza

The information about consular registration was fully explored during McCain's campaign. It is all online.



The lack of specific sources to substantiate you point is duly noted. I also don't recall ever hearing about consulate registration having anything to do with McCain's eligibility.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
ams288
ams288
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January 7th, 2016 at 4:20:06 PM permalink
Quote: RonC

They always talk about having "standing" to file a suit against someone as a big reason for politicians not being allowed to be sued for things they do
--the initial judge reviews the case, says the plaintiff does not have "standing" and the suit goes away.

My question is this:

What point does Ted Cruz have to reach before someone would have "standing" to sue him for not being a natural-born citizen? Who would have standing to sue him>

(Okay--I think he, McCain, Ford, Obama...all of them...are citizens anyway. I am just asking when it could be legally tested and who could sue him.)



That is an interesting question (that I have no clue what the answer is). Tons of cases get dismissed due to the plaintiff not having standing. Does any random citizen have the right to sue over this...? Who knows? It's never been tested.

I've seen them talking about this Cruz citizenship issue on TV a lot lately and I have to agree that he is a citizen and is eligible to be President. But I still find the fact that many on the right are pushing this against him to be funny.
Ding Dong the Witch is Dead
Wizard
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Wizard
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January 7th, 2016 at 5:00:25 PM permalink
After the Bush/Gore election went Bush's way some folks in Texas tried to invalidate Dick Cheney as vice president because he hadn't lived in Wyoming long enough to establish residency, and he ran as being from Wyoming. So folks, who I'm sure had nothing to do with it, challenged vice presidency the courts. Here is a link about the outcome:

Court: Cheney Is Wyoming Resident

My point being that I suppose anybody could file a challenge to a Cruz presidency, but I would lay very long odds such plaintiffs would lose or never have the case heard.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Boz
Boz
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January 7th, 2016 at 5:37:05 PM permalink
This sounds like something out of "Blazing Saddles"

Where all da white women at? The answer must be Maine.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/maine-governor-drug-dealers-impregnate-young-white-girls-36152559
SanchoPanza
SanchoPanza
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January 7th, 2016 at 8:23:33 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

The lack of specific sources to substantiate you point is duly noted. I also don't recall ever hearing about consulate registration having anything to do with McCain's eligibility.

Not exactly setting the highest bar. IAE, the longstanding and widely disseminated applicable paragraphs from 8 USC 1401 et seq (with no ostensible copyright complications):

(d) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year prior to the birth of such person, and the other of whom is a national, but not a citizen of the United States.
(e) a person born in an outlying possession of the United States of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year at any time prior to the birth of such person;

(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization as that term is defined in section 288 of title 22 by such citizen parent, or any periods during which such citizen parent is physically present abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person (A) honorably serving with the Armed Forces of the United States, or (B) employed by the United States Government or an international organization as defined in section 288 of title 22, may be included in order to satisfy the physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24, 1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its present form on that date; and
(h) a person born before noon (Eastern Standard Time) May 24, 1934, outside the limits and jurisdiction of the United States of an alien father and a mother who is a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, had resided in the United States.”

As for the specific actions in the consulates, the Bureau of Consular Affairs begins it explanation at travel.state.gov with:

Birth of U.S. Citizens Abroad

A child born abroad to a U.S. citizen parent or parents may acquire U.S. citizenship at birth if certain statutory requirements are met. The child’s parents should contact the nearest U.S. embassy or consulate to apply for a Consular Report of Birth Abroad of a Citizen of the United States of America (CRBA) to document that the child is a U.S. citizen. If the U.S. embassy or consulate determines that the child acquired U.S. citizenship at birth, a consular officer will approve the CRBA application and the Department of State will issue a CRBA, also called a Form FS-240, in the child’s name.

According to U.S. law, a CRBA is proof of U.S. citizenship and may be used to obtain a U.S. passport and register for school, among other purposes.

The child’s parents may choose to apply for a U.S. passport for the child at the same time that they apply for a CRBA. Parents may also choose to apply only for a U.S. passport for the child. Like a CRBA, a full validity, unexpired U.S. passport is proof of U.S. citizenship.

Parents of a child born abroad to a U.S. citizen or citizens should apply for a CRBA and/or a U.S. passport for the child as soon as possible. Failure to promptly document a child who meets the statutory requirements for acquiring U.S. citizenship at birth may cause problems for the parents and the child when attempting to establish the child’s U.S. citizenship and eligibility for the rights and benefits of U.S. citizenship, including entry into the United States. By law, U.S. citizens, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States.

Consular Report of Birth Abroad (CRBA, or Form FS-240)
If you are a U.S. citizen and have a child overseas, you should report his or her birth as soon as possible so that a Consular Report of Birth Abroad can be issued as an official record of the child's claim to U.S. citizenship. Report the birth of your child abroad at the nearest U.S. embassy or consulate. Check the American Citizens Services portion of the webpage for the nearest Embassy or Consulate in the country where your child was born for further instructions about how to apply for a CRBA. Please note:

A Consular Report of Birth Abroad of a U.S. citizen is only issued to a child who acquired U.S. citizenship at birth and who is generally under the age of 18 at the time of the application.
The U.S. embassy or consulate will provide one original copy of an eligible child’s Consular Report of Birth Abroad of a U.S. Citizen.
A more secure Consular Report of Birth Abroad of a U.S. Citizen was introduced in January 2011. This new CRBA has been updated with a variety of state of the art security features, and is printed centrally in the United States. U.S. embassies and consulates no longer print CRBAs locally, but you still must apply there. The central production was initiated to ensure uniform quality and reduce vulnerability to fraud. The previous version of the CRBA continues to be valid proof of U.S. citizenship.
You may replace, amend or request multiple copies of a Consular Report of Birth Abroad of a U.S. Citizen at any time.”

Here are some additional certifications:

Other Citizenship Documents Issued to U.S. Citizens Born Abroad

Certification of Report of Birth (DS-1350)
As of December 31, 2010, the Department of State no longer issues Certifications of Reports of Births (DS-1350). All previously issued DS-1350s are still valid for proof of identity, citizenship and other legal purposes.

Certificate of Citizenship issued by U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS)
A person born abroad who acquired U.S. citizenship at birth but who is over the age of 18 (and so not eligible for a CRBA) may wish to apply for a Certificate of Citizenship to document acquisition pursuant to 8 U.S.C. 1452. Visit USCIS.gov for further information.
Wizard
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Wizard
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January 7th, 2016 at 9:09:58 PM permalink
Thank you for that. My interpretation is that obtaining a consular report of birth is highly recommended for matters of convenience but not doing so doesn't invalidate natural born citizenship. Also, this doesn't necessary apply to how things worked when Cruz or McCain were born.

Nevertheless, I do thank you for providing that information. I am just interested in the topic and don't claim to know much about it.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
SanchoPanza
SanchoPanza
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January 7th, 2016 at 9:23:53 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Thank you for that. My interpretation is that obtaining a consular report of birth is highly recommended for matters of convenience but not doing so doesn't invalidate natural born citizenship. Also, this doesn't necessary apply to how things worked when Cruz or McCain were born.

Nevertheless, I do thank you for providing that information. I am just interested in the topic and don't claim to know much about it.

You're welcome. If you wish, I can retrieve some of the amendments. There have been quite a few. Also, having read of your interest in Panama, I can state that the material is rather extensive about Zonians of various categories and other aspects of residence in Panama at different times and under different laws. It is quite a complicated area with so many changes over the years.
Wizard
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Wizard
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January 8th, 2016 at 6:04:53 AM permalink
Quote: SanchoPanza

You're welcome. If you wish, I can retrieve some of the amendments.



Thanks again but please don't go to the extra work. I've been to the Canal Zone. It is very American looking and unlike the parts of Panama City surrounding it. Today I assume it is one of the priciest parts of PC to live in.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
SanchoPanza
SanchoPanza
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January 8th, 2016 at 8:37:10 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Thanks again but please don't go to the extra work. I've been to the Canal Zone. It is very American looking and unlike the parts of Panama City surrounding it. Today I assume it is one of the priciest parts of PC to live in.

Yup. A Trump Tower, of all things, is at the edge of the Pacific. And Johns Hopkins has a sizable medical tourism installation there. Not to mention all the fast-food franchisees.

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