2016 Election
Quote:Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee said on Sunday he wouldn’t be “baited” into the politically charged Confederate flag debate in South Carolina, joining a group of fellow GOP White House contenders that says the state must decide.
“Everyone's being baited with this question as if somehow that has anything to do whatsoever with running for president," Huckabee, a 2008 presidential candidate and former Arkansas governor, said on NBC's "Meet the Press." "My position is it most certainly does not."
I'm sure that could turn out to be an interesting position if other candidates (including Hillary) piggy back ride on it for questions they don't want to give any indepth opinion on.
I think we want presidential candidates to prove they can answer even baited questions, because those are the hardest -- it takes all of 2 minutes probably.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/06/21/huckabee-wont-be-baited-into-confederate-flag-debate-say-it-not-presidential/
Quote: rxwineI'm sure that could turn out to be an interesting position if other candidates (including Hillary) piggy back ride on it for questions they don't want to give any indepth opinion on.
I think we want presidential candidates to prove they can answer even baited questions, because those are the hardest -- it takes all of 2 minutes probably.
It is a bogus "gotcha" question that should not have even been asked. Time to slap the media down.
The press will not ask a legit question, such, "Mrs Bill Clinton, how can you speak out on predatory lending when you stripped all the equity people had for simply missing 1 or 2 payments on a land deal you were involved with?
She may as well take a stand on infidelity.
Quote: petroglyph
She may as well take a stand on infidelity.
Actually, a lot of guys would like her position on infidelity! Let your man make a fool of you for years as long as you are seen as his wife in public!
Quote: AZDuffmanFeminists do not like "mail order brides" yet they do not realize they are the reason the whole mail-order bride thing exists. Feminists continually try to emasculate men at every turn, try to snuff out their manly instincts. This starts in kindergarten and never ends. They want men to act like women. So guys see how women in other cultures treat their men and see it works better for both of them. The women over there see how much better the American treats them and are happy with the situation. IOW, the reason there is a market for this is because it works.
By your article you act as though Jeb is the first guy to meet a woman he loved while overseas. I also see that this is your first post, so I will ask how well do you get paid for posting in forums for the Hillary camp?
HAHAHAHAHA.
Sometimes all you can do is shake your head and laugh.
Quote: AZDuffmanIt is a bogus "gotcha" question that should not have even been asked. Time to slap the media down.
The press will not ask a legit question, such, "Mrs Bill Clinton, how can you speak out on predatory lending when you stripped all the equity people had for simply missing 1 or 2 payments on a land deal you were involved with?
Presidents need to be able to answer (or at least give an answer) to any possible question. Even the meaning of "is" is a better than no comment.
Besides they willingly go outside and comment on other things. As they say, it opens it up to asking them other questions.
Don't like it when either side refuses. Short of national security reasons not answering "gothcha" is a weak excuse.
After having strongly supported the Pacific trade agreement more than 40 times, now that she's a candidate she has performed a 180. Some pundits have nicknamed her "the chameleon."Quote: petroglyphI would get a giant belly laugh if Hillary ran on a platform of rescinding NAFTA. lol
Quote: SanchoPanzaAfter having strongly supported the Pacific trade agreement more than 40 times, now that she's a candidate she has performed a 180. Some pundits have nicknamed her "the chameleon."
No one, no one should insult a chameleon like that. I do however think she is a lizard.
Quote: AZDuffmanIt is a bogus "gotcha" question that should not have even been asked. Time to slap the media down.
No its not. We need to stop pretending that the Confederate battle flag is some cultural heritage that needs to be preserved. Even if we ignore the obvious racially connotation it bears it is a flag of a seditious government. State capitals should not be flying the flag of a nation that actively warred against the US if they are a part of the US. I mean I don't see how flying the Confederate flag makes one iota of sense regardless of what you want to say the Civil War was about.
I do think, the idea "it belongs in a museum" fine though.
Quote: AZDuffmanActually, a lot of guys would like her position on infidelity! Let your man make a fool of you for years as long as you are seen as his wife in public!
Sometimes it seems like I'm the only one that thinks it odd?
I remember Giuliani sometime back around 9/11 when some paparazzi was in his face, and Rudi was otherwise busy and the reporter out of context brought up something about his ex's, and Rudi really showed some class under pressure. He said something to the effect, yes I was married before and this is not news, I am not going to spend a lot of time talking about it.
He wasn't denying anything, but he wasn't trying to pretend what happened hadn't happened, all that old news is open access. He just said it wasn't news. Hillary and her people don't even acknowledge the crap around her and Rose law, and Bill, and the drama plays on and on.
I can't believe HRC is relevant, much less a contender for leader of "the free world". It is ludicrous to me. More "Dancing with the Stars" and Honey boo boo.
Quote: TwirdmanNo its not. We need to stop pretending that the Confederate battle flag is some cultural heritage that needs to be preserved. Even if we ignore the obvious racially connotation it bears it is a flag of a seditious government. State capitals should not be flying the flag of a nation that actively warred against the US if they are a part of the US. I mean I don't see how flying the Confederate flag makes one iota of sense regardless of what you want to say the Civil War was about.
That does not make it a valid question for a POTUS candidate. If the candidate was running for Gov of GA then it would be a fair question to ask. But the POTUS and the Feds do not and should not decide what flags get hung in Statehouses across the nation.
Quote: AZDuffmanThat does not make it a valid question for a POTUS candidate. If the candidate was running for Gov of GA then it would be a fair question to ask. But the POTUS and the Feds do not and should not decide what flags get hung in Statehouses across the nation.
Why is this even an issue at this moment? The tragedy is not the flag; the tragedy is the murder of nine innocent people. The issue should be how, without violating civil rights, do we become more aware of people like this idiot (I have said his name for the last time; I actually hope he fades into the obscurity of a life sentence in a hellish jail rather than the massive publicity a death sentence and execution would bring) and do something about it. if one of your friends is talking about mass murder, at least think about doing something to stop him. Don't just ignore hatred and threats of violence.
It isn't about gun control, either. The criminals have guns. Taking everyone's legal ones away won't stop crime. Stiff, mandatory gun crime statutes with minimum sentences will get gun using criminals off the streets.
The mainstream media and some others will make everything a political issue. This is not a political issue; it is a tragedy.
Quote: RonCIf one of your friends is talking about mass murder, at least think about doing something to stop him. Don't just ignore hatred and threats of violence.
And that is really it. We do not recognize mental illness in the USA much anymore. Part of it I put to the decline in standards. "Normal" behavior has degraded so much that it is harder to notice warning signs. I had a roommate crack up once. By the time we were noticing he had to be taken away to medical care.
I haven't followed this one much, but it seems to be similar to the plot of the movie "Higher Learning." Movies are not real life, but the decline of the kid in the film always seemed pretty real to me, both in the way it happened and what people can be driven to.
Quote: rxwineQuote: AZDuffmanIt is a bogus "gotcha" question that should not have even been asked. Time to slap the media down.
The press will not ask a legit question, such, "Mrs Bill Clinton, how can you speak out on predatory lending when you stripped all the equity people had for simply missing 1 or 2 payments on a land deal you were involved with?
Presidents need to be able to answer (or at least give an answer) to any possible question. Even the meaning of "is" is a better than no comment.
Besides they willingly go outside and comment on other things. As they say, it opens it up to asking them other questions.
Don't like it when either side refuses. Short of national security reasons not answering "gothcha" is a weak excuse.
I understand what you are saying, but anyone with half of a brain realizes, as I know everyone here does, that making a political issue at this point about taking down the flag will result in stopping NOTHING!! If people really thought taking that flag down would make real change in America, it would come down in a half a second. One person can think it is about pride in the South and hate slavery and all the other hatred; another can think it is a horrid thing that the flag still flies anywhere but in a museum. NEITHER of those lines of thinking will change a darned thing. It is the hatred that exists within people that makes these things happen; not some symbol.
My opinion? It can stay or go. Let the residents and/or the state government decide. As I said, groups of people see it as a different kind of symbol based on their point of view. It is up to them as a state. In reality, it won't change a thing.
Hardcore tea party state Texas said no to the flag of their plates. The supreme court agreed.
2012 Republican Presidential candidate Mitt Rommney says the flag has got to go.
But the Confederate flag issue? No sir! That's beneath a Presidential candidate!! (who will never win)
He doesn't want to upset the racists in his base.
Quote: terapinedAll the Southern states except 1 have gotten rid of the flag.
Hardcore tea party state Texas said no to the flag of their plates. The supreme court agreed.
2012 Republican Presidential candidate Mitt Rommney says the flag has got to go.
What does the Tea Party have to do with the Confederate Battle Flag, other than supporting the 10th Amendment?
BTW: Supremes did not rule on the flag, they said that the state had the right to refuse service as the plate was technically "state property." This was a very narrow ruling as if they said the state could refuse because "some people found it offensive" then a new can of worms would have been opened.
Quote: AZDuffmanWhat does the Tea Party have to do with the Confederate Battle Flag, other than supporting the 10th Amendment?
BTW: Supremes did not rule on the flag, they said that the state had the right to refuse service as the plate was technically "state property." This was a very narrow ruling as if they said the state could refuse because "some people found it offensive" then a new can of worms would have been opened.
What I am trying to say is that there are conservatives on the right that see the hate this flag represents and want to see it gone.
Quote: terapinedWhat I am trying to say is that there are conservatives on the right that see the hate this flag represents and want to see it gone.
The Tea Party is not conservative, it is far more libertarian.
The flag means different things to different people. I see it as a symbol of rebellion against centralized authority. You may see it different. You do not get to ban things just because you dislike them, or so I have been told by the left.
SC Gamecocks football comes in last place in the SEC :-)
I will assume it was not put out by his campaign, but how about we take a look and end this nonsense of all the racists are in the GOP.
And then there is Jimmy Carter.....
Quote: AZDuffman
The flag means different things to different people. I see it as a symbol of rebellion against centralized authority. You may see it different. You do not get to ban things just because you dislike them, or so I have been told by the left.
Reminds me first and foremost of Bo and Luke Duke. After that, as a sign of country livin'. If I think long enough I eventually come to the racist connotations, but that is well down the list.
'Course I'm a Yank, so there's that.
I want they all deported and take their diplomats and their flags with them, post haste.
Keep our eyes on the prize, the Rebel flag is quaint.
Any foreign dignitary that visits the White House has the flag of their country flown within. The Stars and Bars should never be an issue, at least someone still remembers the war between the states and the half a million americans that died.
The Confederate flag is not a race issue.
Quote: petroglyphThe Confederate flag is not a race issue.
Even so. Do you think the side that wins feels the other flag flying is a spit in the eye at the time? People who first raised it again were just being major sore losers and major ass*****.
Quote: FaceReminds me first and foremost of Bo and Luke Duke. After that, as a sign of country livin'. If I think long enough I eventually come to the racist connotations, but that is well down the list.
'Course I'm a Yank, so there's that.
Right! Heck, I had one, cheesy plastic it was, hanging on my wall because I so loved that show. You can be sure I was not the only one!
Quote: rxwine
Even so. Do you think the side that wins feels the other flag flying is a spit in the eye at the time? People who first raised it again were just being major sore losers and major ass*****.
It is a way of saying, "you may have won the war but *I* will never be defeated." Happens with a lot of symbols.
Quote: rxwineQuote: petroglyphThe Confederate flag is not a race issue.
Even so. Do you think the side that wins feels the other flag flying is a spit in the eye at the time? People who first raised it again were just being major sore losers and major ass*****.
As far as I know they are still ass*****? Except for any wov members in good standing, : )
Genghis Khan said "there is no pleasure greater than lying on the soft bellies of your slain enemies wives and daughters".
I take a different approach. I think after an agreement to cease hostilities, the victor should allow his foe his dignity. And I am a Yankee, or so I am told. If the victor has to take everything, including the losers pride, he may as well kill them all, or we will have what is now going on in MENA.
For instance, after a fistfight do you have to castrate the vanquished or do you let him up and shake hands?
Way to many people have died for someone else's money, when the politics could get them to "rally round the flag". No easier way to raise an army then to commit a false flag and anyone who won't sign up to defend the "flag" is labeled unpatriotic and that persons neighbors will shame him into joining.
Henry Kissinger" “Military men are just dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy.”
South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley (R) will call for the Confederate flag to be removed from the state capitol, multiple outlets reported Monday.
Haley is set to speak at a press conference at 4 p.m. ET Monday. According to CNN and AP, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) will join the governor and call for the flag to be placed in a museum.
Quote: petroglyphI take a different approach. I think after an agreement to cease hostilities, the victor should allow his foe his dignity..”
Yeah, you let him put his flag in his graveyard, you don't fly it over your state capitol.
Quote: rxwineYeah, you let him put his flag in his graveyard, you don't fly it over your state capitol.
It isn't flying over the state capitol in the first place.
Quote: AZDuffmanIt isn't flying over the state capitol in the first place.
Okay, at then. Would you feel offended if an Isis flag only flew on the grounds of the US capital. I don't think it makes a difference except it would just be worse flying over it.
Quote: rxwineYeah, you let him put his flag in his graveyard, you don't fly it over your state capitol.
Do you object to state's rights then?
Surely there must be more important issues? The residents of that state seem to approve, what is wrong with each different local being a little different instead of clones? The west doesn't want a lot of New Yorkers and vice versa.
What about flag burning? There are thousands in the SW, many illegal, who set fire to the American flag in protest of not accepting all immigrants. Do they do that in South Carolina as well? Or do the "good ole boys" kind of keep that in check?
Quote: rxwineOkay, at then. Would you feel offended if an Isis flag only flew on the grounds of the US capital. I don't think it makes a difference except it would just be worse flying over it.
I'm not sure that is a valid comparison of the situations. You are talking about an enemy we are still fighting as a country as opposed to a state that was part of a country that we defeated in battle. Let's defeat ISIS before we decide to put their flag anywhere...
I'm all for the flag coming down, but we should be more worried about the victims and their families than the politics of the flag at this moment. We should be using the moment to teach people not to ignore the warning signs of loose cannons like this guy. Don't listen to someone say they are going to do a little hate killing and ignore it. We're all concerned about the flag and gun control, and not the situation at hand.
Quote: petroglyphDo you object to state's rights then?
More specifically?
Quote:Surely there must be more important issues?
What, I can't talk about something inless it is the most important issue? Let's limit everything to starving children or some such?
Quote:What about flag burning?
About setting fire to an original museum piece famous flag, or a we talking free speech symbolism of one I bought at Walmart made in China? For one, against the other.
Quote: rxwineOkay, at then. Would you feel offended if an Isis flag only flew on the grounds of the US capital. I don't think it makes a difference except it would just be worse flying over it.
You don't think it makes a difference if an ISIS flag fly's at the US capitol but it bothers you if a confederate flag fly's in Carolina? It [isis flag] might be more appropriate in front of cia headquarters?
edit; ugly photo deleted
What is it that you object to about the stars and bars?
Are you against US sovereignty as well?
Quote: petroglyphYou don't think it makes a difference if an ISIS flag fly's at the US capitol but it bothers you if a confederate flag fly's in Carolina?
Hah? No. That wasn't the context. Do I need to explain or you just want to re-read all the related posts I was replying to?
For instance, mineral rights, educational curriculum, medical mj, super sized soft drinks, issues that give each state an individual identity like Mardi Gras, predator control, oil drilling, lead mining, drinking age, age of consent. All those rights not specifically guaranteed to the fed. Or is the constitution really "just a piece of paper" as GWB stated?Quote: rxwineMore specifically?
You can talk about anything you want, after all it's a free country. Right? Unless apparently some state doesn't agree with your opinion.Quote:What, I can't talk about something inless it is the most important issue? Let's limit everything to starving children or some such?
The South Carolina corporation should have the right to free speech. After all, corporations are people and money is speech.
IMO, if the news that's news, is only thirty or sixty minutes, the issue of whether or not Car. wants the confederate flag is just opinion management, never mind the flip side to the TPP. Never mind the damage done by an out of control CONgress. Renaming the patriot act, Fukashima, the destruction of the dollar, nah lets hang around and get upset about what some good ole boys are flying. It now looks like the S. Car. congress critters will get on board and do a 180 and denounce the flag where it fly's. They couldn't lead, but they will follow and want credit. What a shame that this is what has become "news". Bring back Walter Cronkite.
As far as that goes as regards starving children, I don't see many on US tv, not that I watch it. I see a bunch of pc drivel, and a population infatuated with Jenner, or Kardashians butt. The news isn't news, it's opinion management.
Quote: rxwineHah? No. That wasn't the context. Do I need to explain or you just want to re-read all the related posts I was replying to?
I thought it way out of context to bring isis into the thread. Like going to the nuclear option versus discussing, or a mini- Godwins law.
Quote: petroglyph, or Kardashians butt.
I definitely would make a law against the Kardashians being in the media any longer.
Quote: petroglyphI thought it way out of context to bring isis into the thread. Like going to the nuclear option versus discussing, or a mini- Godwins law.
Oh, well, I could have just said, if you find some object offensive enough, does it matter where it is sometimes. Do you really find fecal matter better in the living room or your bedroom? I don't think it matters that much. It's on the floor in your house.
(don't mention fetishes please)
What are we doing to solve the problem of hatred of those of another race?
We have spent a day or two talking about removing a flag. Honestly, people might feel good about it but it solves nothing.
"Hey, look, the flag came down...we solved a huge problem...we are heroes!!!"...I can hear it now!
Quote: rxwineOh, well, I could have just said, if you find some object offensive enough, does it matter where it is sometimes. Do you really find fecal matter better in the living room or your bedroom? I don't think it matters that much. It's on the floor in your house.
(don't mention fetishes please)
I don't understand what is so offensive about the confederate flag?
If it is flown to make a racist statement than I am for burning it to the ground along with the pole that holds it.
If it is to keep a memory alive and honor those ancestors who defended their country at the time, I can ignore any resentment I may conjure up?
You mentioned earlier about the flag at the cemetery. I remember well on the nightly news all the coffins coming back from Vietnam draped in US flags.
"war, what is it good for, absolutely nothin" https://youtu.be/01-2pNCZiNk
Which brought back this memory:https://youtu.be/-7Y0ekr-3So
I want people to stop dying for other men's money [or cloth]
Quote: RonCOkay, the flag is going to come down.
What are we doing to solve the problem of hatred of those of another race?
We have spent a day or two talking about removing a flag. Honestly, people might feel good about it but it solves nothing.
Exactly, it does absolutely nothing except empower some group to go after the next freedom.
So many people died for that flag and in order to be politically correct, it will be taken down.
Quote: petroglyphI don't understand what is so offensive about the confederate flag?
If it is flown to make a racist statement than I am for burning it to the ground along with the pole that holds it.
I don't think you can say it was flown for only one statement. But nor can you divide it and say it only represented what was good about the South.
It surely would have evolved over time. But it didn't, and it represents the issues of the time, good and bad. IMO.
Quote: RonCOkay, the flag is going to come down.
What are we doing to solve the problem of hatred of those of another race?
We have spent a day or two talking about removing a flag. Honestly, people might feel good about it but it solves nothing.
Quote: petroglyphExactly, it does absolutely nothing except empower some group to go after the next freedom.
So many people died for that flag and in order to be politically correct, it will be taken down.
The context of the flag being there has been lost--it flies over a monument, not over the Capitol, and a lot of citizens fought under the flag, most of whom did not own slaves in the first place. "Poor men fighting a rich man's battle" is how the 94% who didn't own slaves have been described. The flag flies for their sacrifice, and not for the continuance of the horrid practice of slavery.
Quote: RonCOkay, the flag is going to come down.
What are we doing to solve the problem of hatred of those of another race?
Well, people generally gravitate towards their own race given the choice and no modified inputs. As long as you are hurting nobody else, nothing wrong with that.
IMHO, we should not be surprised at this. If you are white and born post-1980 you are subtly and not-so-subtly told from birth that there is no place for you at the table and you should be ashamed of yourself. You see want ads that say "women and minorities encouraged to apply!" You see Black History Month, you hear about women doing this, you hear gay pride, Mexican Pride, basically everyone except you is given a message that they are good. You get told that people like you raped, killed, swindelled, stole, and more or less screwed everyone else over and you owe them for all that was done.
I remember reading a newspaper article a few years back saying "what does it look like if someone comes to apply for a job in your office and all they see is white people?" Insert another race and tell me there would not be a boycott of advertisers. Blacks kill more whites than whites kill blacks, yet which killing which causes a media uproar?
One race simply cannot be treated this way and there be no reaction. More mature and level-heads like myself just tune out from pop culture and lead quiet lives hoping not to be hassled. Feminized men will just try to be liked and concede the point. Crazies like this kid will radicalize.
Until we get balance, things will not improve.
Quote: RonCThe context of the flag being there has been lost--it flies over a monument, not over the Capitol, and a lot of citizens fought under the flag, most of whom did not own slaves in the first place. "Poor men fighting a rich man's battle" is how the 94% who didn't own slaves have been described. The flag flies for their sacrifice, and not for the continuance of the horrid practice of slavery.
Well said, this is how I feel about it.
If that is my heritage, then I should be allowed to continue it. : )Quote: AZDuffmanYou get told that people like you raped, killed, swindelled, stole, and more or less screwed everyone else over and you owe them for all that was done.
What minuscule little bit I have accidently seen about this incident said even white supremacists think he was a crazy ***hole.Quote:Feminized men will just try to be liked and concede the point. Crazies like this kid will radicalize.
The NRA, AFAIK wouldn't support his guy. He is a lunatic, regardless of his color. Given the chance I am sure some CCP holder would have shot him.
I don't carry to follow the chain of events that leads to removing the last sign of the old republic, how many degrees of separation from what really happened led to removing of the flag?
...and forget to work on fixing racism...and improving efforts to identify psychos who utter words threatening to kill (terroristic threats)....
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/06/21/how-the-confederacy-lives-on-in-the-flags-of-seven-southern-states/
Mississippi's state flag...
While we are it, let's start removing all statues...
"A statue at the state's flagship university honoring Confederate leader Jefferson Davis has become a divisive reminder of the University of Texas at Austin's Old South roots -- ties that a growing number of students, alumni and lawmakers want to see the university sever."
http://www.chron.com/local/education/campus-chronicles/article/Should-UT-remove-statue-honoring-confederate-6342100.php
Quote: petroglyph
What minuscule little bit I have accidently seen about this incident said even white supremacists think he was a crazy ***hole.
The NRA, AFAIK wouldn't support his guy. He is a lunatic, regardless of his color. Given the chance I am sure some CCP holder would have shot him.
I don't carry to follow the chain of events that leads to removing the last sign of the old republic, how many degrees of separation from what really happened led to removing of the flag?
I ain't saying he is anything but an awful human being. And yes, even the KKK and Skinheads will disown a gut that is too crazy for them. For example, Manson was denied membership in the A.B., they said they can't have a guy like him as a member. Most white supremacists are probably not killers as much as they just want to be left alone, standing behind a guy like this them a bad name.
Call the my post a rant if anyone likes, what I am saying is that this will be the result if the double standards of the PC movement continue. An extreme result, yes. But a result.
