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AZDuffman
AZDuffman 
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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September 9th, 2015 at 1:35:37 PM permalink
Quote: SteveButte



I'm genuinely curious as to why, if you don't have a substantial amount of money, anyone would believe that any of these candidates will represent your interests or the interests of the general population over the interests of the big banks and major industries.



No different than a Marxist system, just there they represent different interests.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
terapined
terapined
Joined: Dec 1, 2012
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September 9th, 2015 at 2:18:59 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

I have to wonder what the difference in liberal opinion and media coverage would be if she were muslim.



Doesn't make any diff
Christian, Muslim, atheist, Martian (Reading The Martian, Bring Watney home)
Cant do the job due to gay hatred, get another job
"Everybody's bragging and drinking that wine, I can tell the Queen of Diamonds by the way she shines, Come to Daddy on an inside straight, I got no chance of losing this time" -Grateful Dead- "Loser"
AZDuffman
AZDuffman 
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
  • Threads: 227
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September 9th, 2015 at 2:28:50 PM permalink
Quote: terapined

Doesn't make any diff
Christian, Muslim, atheist, Martian (Reading The Martian, Bring Watney home)
Cant do the job due to gay hatred, get another job



Thing is, we won't really know until a muslim has an issue with gays how it gets played. When it does, I can't wait to see how the broad reaction goes on the left.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
rxwine
rxwine
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
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September 9th, 2015 at 2:32:08 PM permalink
Quote: terapined

Doesn't make any diff
Christian, Muslim, atheist, Martian (Reading The Martian, Bring Watney home)
Cant do the job due to gay hatred, get another job



Kind of surprised it's okay for atheists to get married. There are god believing gays who are discriminated against.

You would think it would be worse for atheists who reject the whole shebang and sometimes go as far to denounce Christianity regularly -- yet is okay.

That god works in mysterious ways.
Quasimodo? Does that name ring a bell?
terapined
terapined
Joined: Dec 1, 2012
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September 9th, 2015 at 3:02:53 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Thing is, we won't really know until a muslim has an issue with gays how it gets played. When it does, I can't wait to see how the broad reaction goes on the left.



What an absurd statement.
A particular religion has nothing to do with this.
Kim Davis is WRONG. She needs to do her job or quit.
Donald Trump got it right. He said she needs to get another job.
If Kim Davis was a Muslim, she would still be wrong. She needs to do her job or quit.
Libs and Trump would come to the same conclusion regardless if Ms Davis was a Christian or a Muslim.
I'm an atheist, I think all religions are people simply believing in make believe.
You can believe anything you want, people have that right.
You just cant deny people their rights due to make believe beliefs
"Everybody's bragging and drinking that wine, I can tell the Queen of Diamonds by the way she shines, Come to Daddy on an inside straight, I got no chance of losing this time" -Grateful Dead- "Loser"
Face
Administrator
Face
Joined: Dec 27, 2010
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September 9th, 2015 at 3:08:45 PM permalink
Quote: rxwine

Kind of surprised it's okay for atheists to get married. There are god believing gays who are discriminated against.

You would think it would be worse for atheists who reject the whole shebang and sometimes go as far to denounce Christianity regularly -- yet is okay.

That god works in mysterious ways.



Pretty good point. Rejection of Christ as your Lord and Savior is, if I'm not mistaken, the greatest sin of all. Yet here I am, having a church marriage under my belt, and I was the biggest atheist I knew until I met EB and Nareed.

Quote: SteveButte

I do like pot stirring! I used to be a Libertarian back in my 20's, now I'm a Red. One common misconception about Marxism/Communism is that we want a big, centralized gov't. While the attempts at Communist states devolved into this, eventually failed and mutated into weird hybrid Capitalist/Socialist/Authoritarian regimes, the actual goal of Marxism is to eliminate 'The State' completely, something we share with Libertarians, although coming from a different angle.



Rudeboyoi is our resident Anarchist. He used to post so much about it in so many threads I actually made a containment thread for him, titled "Voluntarism". I haven't seen him in a bit, but I'd say he's pretty passionate about it.

Quote: SteveButte

I'm genuinely curious as to why, if you don't have a substantial amount of money, anyone would believe that any of these candidates will represent your interests or the interests of the general population over the interests of the big banks and major industries.



If you can get through the rah-rah-rah of Red vs Blue, I think you'd find most here share that view. I don't think anyone here believes any of these candidates are there for them personally. Rather, most vote for the one closest representing their beliefs. Everyone is (hopefully) aware that this is nothing more than an oligarchy with the illusion of choice.
The opinions of this moderator are for entertainment purposes only.
terapined
terapined
Joined: Dec 1, 2012
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September 9th, 2015 at 3:35:22 PM permalink
Quote: Face

Pretty good point. Rejection of Christ as your Lord and Savior is, if I'm not mistaken, the greatest sin of all. Yet here I am, having a church marriage under my belt, and I was the biggest atheist I knew until I met EB and Nareed. .


Damm, didn't make the cut. Maybe I need to post more in the religion threads over at DT.


Quote: Face


Rudeboyoi is our resident Anarchist. He used to post so much about it in so many threads I actually made a containment thread for him, titled "Voluntarism". I haven't seen him in a bit, but I'd say he's pretty passionate about it..


Rudeboyoi is a very passionate Anarchist. I am pretty shocked at some of his views.
By the way, totally cool in person, I've met him.


Quote: Face


If you can get through the rah-rah-rah of Red vs Blue, I think you'd find most here share that view. I don't think anyone here believes any of these candidates are there for them personally. Rather, most vote for the one closest representing their beliefs. Everyone is (hopefully) aware that this is nothing more than an oligarchy with the illusion of choice.



Politics is entertainment.
We are not changing anybody's mind on this board.
I simply enjoy the count counterpoint of ideas and views from the right and left.
Sometimes we have winners and losers due to the effective use of logic but overall, we agree to disagree.
Its fun to communicate with those that have different beliefs and compare notes on the logic of our positions.

I follow Presidential politics very closely. But its entertainment for me.
Regardless of who gets elected, my life is not going to change at all.
"Everybody's bragging and drinking that wine, I can tell the Queen of Diamonds by the way she shines, Come to Daddy on an inside straight, I got no chance of losing this time" -Grateful Dead- "Loser"
Face
Administrator
Face
Joined: Dec 27, 2010
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September 9th, 2015 at 3:51:16 PM permalink
Quote: terapined

Damm, didn't make the cut. Maybe I need to post more in the religion threads over at DT.



Wouldn't matter. You're too hippy, content to hold your views but otherwise live and let live. Nareed is the Patton of Militant Atheism. You couldn't hold a candle to her =)



Quote: terapined

Rudeboyoi is a very passionate Anarchist. I am pretty shocked at some of his views.
By the way, totally cool in person, I've met him.



Quite passionate. His views are crazy, and I love it. My containment of him had only to do with his mentioning it in every post he made, not that I found his ideas unwelcome. It's an interesting topic, and parts of his views I completely agree with.

Quote: terapined

Politics is entertainment.
We are not changing anybody's mind on this board.



I disagree. Perhaps your age has resulted in a sort of solidification of your believes and values. Mine are still fluid and have been deeply affected (both positively and negatively) by the experiences with members of this very board. They've pulled me out of extremism, pulled me more to the Right, made me reevaluate American Liberalism, and all but ensured that I've written off the GOP for good.

It's been a fun ride, and I'm still enjoying the trip.

Quote: terapined

Regardless of who gets elected, my life is not going to change at all.



My condolences =p
The opinions of this moderator are for entertainment purposes only.
SteveButte
SteveButte
Joined: Aug 11, 2015
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September 9th, 2015 at 3:55:41 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

No different than a Marxist system, just there they represent different interests.



No Marxist system has ever been fully realized or implemented. Should one be, profit, private property, money, trade, hierarchies, the state as we know it - would all be eliminated. The only interests are that of ending exploitation of the worker and putting all resources into the public trust. Whether that's achievable or not, it's a lot different than casting a vote for people you know don't represent you.

From your avatar I assume your beliefs are to the far Right. If you believe in the ideals of free market and free enterprise, those ideals aren't achievable until the ruling class' monopoly over finance capital and natural resources are broken up, so we (should) have a common enemy.

But if you look at history, the early Capitalism that grew from monarchy and Feudalism which fostered competition and free enterprise - if mostly for land owning White men - led us to our current state of affairs of giant multi-national banks pretty much running the show (among many other horrors). Even if we were able to hit the reset button on Capitalism and start over with a level playing field, I don't see it playing out any differently. Which is why I'm for radical social change.
Gandler
Gandler
Joined: Jan 27, 2014
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September 9th, 2015 at 4:03:41 PM permalink
Quote: SteveButte

I do like pot stirring! I used to be a Libertarian back in my 20's, now I'm a Red. One common misconception about Marxism/Communism is that we want a big, centralized gov't. While the attempts at Communist states devolved into this, eventually failed and mutated into weird hybrid Capitalist/Socialist/Authoritarian regimes, the actual goal of Marxism is to eliminate 'The State' completely, something we share with Libertarians, although coming from a different angle.

I'm genuinely curious as to why, if you don't have a substantial amount of money, anyone would believe that any of these candidates will represent your interests or the interests of the general population over the interests of the big banks and major industries.



What is wrong with owning and controlling a means of production?

Also, without a state what will prevent people from owning and controlling the means of production?

Attempts devolve into those kind of regimes because Marxism assumes that people will do the right thing without the threat or force or the incentive of capital.

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