2016 Election

Quote: Boz

First off I want to Thank You for taking the time to write a long well thought out post. I wouldnt expect anything else as you always present yourself in that manner.

Oh, and back to the Dude Maddow thing. And maybe you will see this as me being inmature again, but when (in my opinion) you put yourself out there as a public figure and spread lies, half truths and practice the art of personal distruction (See 100+ segments against Chris Christie) day after day, you are going to get stufff like this. And you have to admit she looks like a dude. But if it helps, I say worse stuff about Olbermann day after day.

Thanks again for reading and I hope you take this for what it is, in the end we are all different, yet so similar. Thanks! Bob

Thanks for the compliment in your opening lines. I do try to be respectful in expressing my thoughts. I actually enjoy discussions with open-minded folks, even folks that tend to lean the other direction from myself. That is why this forum and this thread in particular are disappointing. Very few have any sort of open mind and want to have a real discussion. Most just want to hammer home their own views. Mr Duffman wants to go as far as to decide my views.

I think it is a little weak to criticize someone based on looks, but I will go ahead and give you a pass on the Maddow thing. She doesn't look like a 'dude' to me, she looks like a lesbo. That typical 'butchy' type lesbo, but a lesbo. I won't pretend to understand a thing about them, including the 'butchy' stuff with the short haircuts. It was a little surprising to learn that she knows nothing about sports. Breaks the stereotype, in that regard.

Thing about Maddow, she looks like a lesbian, sure, but people keep describing her as "macho." She doesn't look "macho" to me at all. She's so folksy and twee, it shocked me to learn she was six feet tall. I think the term "dogwhistle" is a bit abused, but... that there's a dogwhistle.

What is the Liberal stance nowadays? (You be quiet for a minute, AZD =p)

Terapined made a comment elsewhere about "Liberal views", and it struck me that I have no idea what they are. I once considered myself at least "liberal", once upon a time. I still hold views, deep views, which are most assuredly "left", and I will continue to hold them for the foreseeable future. But as far as the party is concerned, I have absolutely no idea what y'all are up to.

When I was coming up, being liberal meant a certain thing. What I most remember is how chill it was. Hippies, stoners, skaters, all liberal. Black folks? We're cool with them. Gay? Go ahead. Need a buck? Yeah, a few cents in taxes is fine by me. It sort of seemed (to very young Face) that it was the party of happiness. Conservatives? Ha! Old, fat, rich, white guys that hated everything that wasn't old, fat, rich, and white. Oh yeah, and smeared with a healthy dose of His Godliness. As long as you weren't brown. "Italian" was about as dark as you could get, but even then... they got their eye on you.

I look around today, and I do not see the same thing. I see a shift from the "party of acceptance" to the "party who deems what is acceptable". And I might even ask you to read that again. From "party of acceptance" to "party who deems what is acceptable". I'm having a hard time talking myself out of that, as it seems so obviously true.

I'm still totally fine with one who has "liberal views". As I said, I hold many myself. But anytime someone proclaims "I am Liberal", big "L", and said with pride, 10 times out of 10 I find they're a person who I'm gonna wind up fantasizing laying hands on. Some of you... God, I really want to punch your face (generic "you", not anyone here).

So I'm asking in an attempt to find out what changed. I know I have changed a bit, but I know how I changed and it doesn't account for the difference. Is it just a product of media, which sensationalizes topics and skews appearance? Are the wrong people getting the mic and casting a shadow on the party? Or is what I've been feeling actually happening?

There's a bunch of liberals here. Explain your party in the year 2015. What is it that you aim to do?

(P.S. I'm a young, thin, poor, red, atheist. Just thought I'd put that out there before someone labeled me a conservative ;))

Quote: Face

(You be quiet for a minute, AZD =p)

I'm going to let this go except for one thing

Quote:

When I was coming up, being liberal meant a certain thing. What I most remember is how chill it was. Hippies, stoners, skaters, all liberal. Black folks? We're cool with them. Gay? Go ahead. Need a buck? Yeah, a few cents in taxes is fine by me. It sort of seemed (to very young Face) that it was the party of happiness. Conservatives? Ha! Old, fat, rich, white guys that hated everything that wasn't old, fat, rich, and white. Oh yeah, and smeared with a healthy dose of His Godliness. As long as you weren't brown. "Italian" was about as dark as you could get, but even then... they got their eye on you.

I'm no rich.

I have been personally called out so will take a stab at this.

Quote: Face

What is the Liberal stance nowadays? (You be quiet for a minute, AZD =p)

Depends, Whats the issue?

Quote: Face

Terapined made a comment elsewhere about "Liberal views", and it struck me that I have no idea what they are. I once considered myself at least "liberal", once upon a time. I still hold views, deep views, which are most assuredly "left", and I will continue to hold them for the foreseeable future. But as far as the party is concerned, I have absolutely no idea what y'all are up to.

Here are the Presidential candidates I voted for. You tell me who my party is?
2012 Obama Dem
2008 Obama Dem
2004 Nader independent
2000 Nader independent
1996 Dole republican
1992 Bush republican
1988 Bush republican
1984 Reagan republican
1980 Anderson independent

Quote: Face

When I was coming up, being liberal meant a certain thing. What I most remember is how chill it was. Hippies, stoners, skaters, all liberal. Black folks? We're cool with them. Gay? Go ahead. Need a buck? Yeah, a few cents in taxes is fine by me. It sort of seemed (to very young Face) that it was the party of happiness. Conservatives? Ha! Old, fat, rich, white guys that hated everything that wasn't old, fat, rich, and white. Oh yeah, and smeared with a healthy dose of His Godliness. As long as you weren't brown. "Italian" was about as dark as you could get, but even then... they got their eye on you.

I get that, growing up, I felt the same.

Quote: Face

I look around today, and I do not see the same thing. I see a shift from the "party of acceptance" to the "party who deems what is acceptable". And I might even ask you to read that again. From "party of acceptance" to "party who deems what is acceptable". I'm having a hard time talking myself out of that, as it seems so obviously true..

Are you referring to the flag? If you fly a confederate on your personal property, that is totally acceptable..
You have that right and I would fight for you to have that right. Just keep it on your property, it does not belong in our property (public property)
Sure I would never ever display it personally, but you have rights and I will not infringe on those rights.
I also have rights, if I don't buy Kid Rock cd's because he flys the flag, I have that right also.
Its not about acceptance or not accepted in regards to Kid Rock, its the incredulousness that this guy is able to sell cd's. I've heard the music if that's what you call it.

Quote: Face

I'm still totally fine with one who has "liberal views". As I said, I hold many myself. But anytime someone proclaims "I am Liberal", big "L", and said with pride, 10 times out of 10 I find they're a person who I'm gonna wind up fantasizing laying hands on. Some of you... God, I really want to punch your face (generic "you", not anyone here)...

I am Liberal w/pride
I am Liberal w/pride
I am Liberal w/pride
I am Liberal w/pride
I am Liberal w/pride
I am Liberal w/pride
I am Liberal w/pride
I am Liberal w/pride
I am Liberal w/pride
I am Liberal w/pride

Ouch, that hurt. Keep your hands to your self, Face hurt a face:-)

I am not liberal w/pride. I am terapined w/pride, and that's a small "t"

Quote: Face

So I'm asking in an attempt to find out what changed. I know I have changed a bit, but I know how I changed and it doesn't account for the difference. Is it just a product of media, which sensationalizes topics and skews appearance? Are the wrong people getting the mic and casting a shadow on the party? Or is what I've been feeling actually happening?)

its just a product of media, which sensationalizes topics and skews appearance.
the wrong people are getting the mic and casting a shadow on the party
Hmm, looks like you answered your own questions. That was easy.

Quote: Face

There's a bunch of liberals here. Explain your party in the year 2015. What is it that you aim to do?

My party in the year 2015 was July 4th weekend Grateful Dead Soldier Field . What a party. Fri nite smoked, the show was so hot, I thought Chicago was going to catch of fire. That's how hot the party was.
Without a doubt, best damm party in 20 years.
My aim was to have fun. What other aim is here. Heading to Vegas couple weeks. Meet me face and I will show and explain my party :-)

Quote: Face

(P.S. I'm a young, thin, poor, red, atheist. Just thought I'd put that out there before someone labeled me a conservative ;))

I'm old slightly overweight employed tie-dye deadhead. Putting it out there before somebody labels me a lib with a capitol L with pride.

So.

My personal definition of Liberal is: open to change.
Conservative: prefers status quo.

Those were pretty broad but valid until the early 90's, in the days when people spoke directly about issues, held positions that might differ, and would work to find compromise or common ground, both with the goal of serving their constituents and their country.

(Hey, terapined! My mom was Iowa campaign manager for John Anderson in 1980. Thanks for your vote!)

Liberal, as you're referencing it, was re-defined as a pejorative in the early 90's. Credit Lee Atwood and Rush Limbaugh primarily for the start, many in the supporting cast, with a special nod to Newt Gingrich. Liberals do not, in the main, believe in or pursue many of the extreme positions they are held to have by those who wish to discredit them. It's a tactic. It's driven by money, power, and hidden objectives, and holds at its root a contempt not just for those from whom they differ, but especially for those they manipulate to lead. They have undermined the concepts of conciliation, integrity, honest negotiations, many others.

If you want to gain supporters, take their pain and give it a target outside themselves, no matter how unlikely. Take a stance that everybody believes in, claim it for yourself, and more importantly, claim your political opponents are opposed. If you're losing an argument on the merits, throw back an unrelated counterclaim to discredit your opponent, mock their looks, make up clever derogatory phrases about them, blame a third party who doesn't pass the blame fast enough themselves, or claim an isolated nutjob represents the entire position. Say this enough times on sympathetic media, quote each other, publish things on the internet you can then quote on the air, and rely on the miniscule attention span of the public to make it conventional wisdom. (Lots of those tactics very evident in these political threads, btw.)

You, Face, are a good and decent person. You know many others who are both "Liberals" and "Conservatives" under the new (IMO skewed, though we may now be stuck with them) definitions, and if you're unable to resolve the labels with the people you know and their motives as you understand them, I would strongly suggest you check your premises and follow your own best judgment rather than accepting ANY hyperbole as truth. Lots more work to do it that way; most folks don't seem to bother any more. But trust your skepticism whenever you hear a false note or anything stated as generalities or absolutes; the hyping people depend on you accepting what they say at face value, because that builds their power.

Quote: Face

(P.S. I'm a young, thin, poor, red, atheist. Just thought I'd put that out there before someone labeled me a conservative ;))

I'm not a liberal so I can't answer your question, but I just wanted to comment on this statement.

First off I have no clue what red means?
But, being young, thin, and an atheist, and poor should have nothing to do with being less or more conservative.

I am an athesit and have a very untraditional lifestyle, young (low 20s), and very inshape (I think so anyway) and I proudly call myself conservative.

I think the economy, property/income rights, and self-defense rights, and national strength, are the issues that make people conservative.

Your automatic defense that you felt was neccessary against a generalization that is frequently portrayed (that all conservatives are fat homophobic Christian Rednecks), shows how far from reality the left is. Go to any conservative event and the diversity would suprise most people, but the cameras usually focus on the obnoxious Redneck with the "Impeach Obama" sign.

I will give the left, they are excellent at propaganda, and Excell in making people feel horrible about themselves for voting against the left, and constantly play the politcally correct cards.

Quote: Gandler

Your automatic defense that you felt was neccessary against a generalization that is frequently portrayed (that all conservatives are fat homophobic Christian Rednecks), shows how far from reality the left is. Go to any conservative event and the diversity would suprise most people, but the cameras usually focus on the obnoxious Redneck with the "Impeach Obama" sign.

Now live in Tampa.
Once the nominations are set, We get many visits from the Presidential candidates, VP candidates, and even the wives. That's how important this area is. FL is a pretty evenly divided state, north Florida red state Jacksonville and pan handle which is deep south country, southern Florida Hispanic blue Miami. The key I4 Tampa Orlando corridor determines if FL goes blue or red.

I went to the vp candidate Ryan political rally in Oldsmar FL 3 yrs ago.
Its the only huge conservative rally I have been to.
Its real close and was on the weekend.
Maybe this rally was the exception, but I have to be honest, the crowd did not look diverse. Solid white actually.

Quote: terapined

Now live in Tampa.
Once the nominations are set, We get many visits from the Presidential candidates, VP candidates, and even the wives. That's how important this area is. FL is a pretty evenly divided state, north Florida red state Jacksonville and pan handle which is deep south country, southern Florida Hispanic blue Miami. The key I4 Tampa Orlando corridor determines if FL goes blue or red.

I went to the vp candidate Ryan political rally in Oldsmar FL 3 yrs ago.
Its the only huge conservative rally I have been to.
Its real close and was on the weekend.
Maybe this rally was the exception, but I have to be honest, the crowd did not look diverse. Solid white actually.

To clarify by diverse, I don't just mean racially diverse.

But as for race, you also, have to take into account where it was. I know nothing about race stats in that area, but in much of America white people are the majority, so seeing more white people than black and hispanic people should not be surprising.


But if you were to go to an event where I live (southern NJ), I would bet it would be far more racially diverse than it sounds there.

Quote: beachbumbabs

So.


Liberal, as you're referencing it, was re-defined as a pejorative in the early 90's. Credit Lee Atwood and Rush Limbaugh primarily for the start, many in the supporting cast, with a special nod to Newt Gingrich. Liberals do not, in the main, believe in or pursue many of the extreme positions they are held to have by those who wish to discredit them. It's a tactic. It's driven by money, power, and hidden objectives, and holds at its root a contempt not just for those from whom they differ, but especially for those they manipulate to lead. They have undermined the concepts of conciliation, integrity, honest negotiations, many others..

I read your post a couple times, then again before I started typing. "They have undermined"? Who is they?