2016 Election
Quote: SanchoPanzaHenry Louis Gates, Trayvon Martin and Ferguson, for just a few of the most notable instances.
I see no problem with him speaking out on any of those.
And I would LOVE to see someone attempt to conflate any of those statements to Ben Carson saying stupid things about Hitler and slavery.
Quote: ams288I see no problem with him speaking out on any of those.
You don't? Many folks do see an issue. He is the President, not just some guy on the streets. His words can create problems for people being treated fairly and can cause issues with the investigation. He should have reserved his bully pulpit until the facts were all gathered. Just because he has the right to say what he wants, it does not make it right to say what he wants. I get it, though, he can say whatever he wants.
Quote: ams288And I would LOVE to see someone attempt to conflate any of those statements to Ben Carson saying stupid things about Hitler and slavery.
No one tried to do that and I don't think anyone would. The statement by Ben Carson was just another warning to be vigilant about how much power people let be taken away from the people. I think I have heard that warning from time to time from people on both sides. It is kind of why the ACLU and groups like that exist--to defend the rights of people to things like free speech and other Constitutional protections.
Quote: RonCNo one tried to do that and I don't think anyone would.
I'm pretty sure you did, otherwise why did you even bring it up in response to my comment on Ben Carson??? Lol
You might see the problem if you had remembered what you had posted shortly before and not trimmed it:Quote: ams288I see no problem with him speaking out on any of those..
"I never even agreed with your premise that Obama "inserts himself on a certain side of local criminal issues before they were fully investigated." What is this even in reference to, and why is it "stupid?""
Quote: RonC""I actually have something I would use the Department of Education to do," Carson responded. "It would be to monitor our institutions of higher education for extreme political bias and deny federal funding if it exists.""
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ben-carson-police-speech-colleges_5627b787e4b02f6a900eebbb
Not getting free money is not the same as not having free speech. They can say whatever they want; the government has no duty to support them. We all have the right to free speech; we all have to be careful where we exercise our right...it is the right that is protected, not the right to get money no matter how biased you are or to keep your job. Institutions of higher learning are for LEARNING not INDOCTRINATION.
Problem is that kind of thing heavily restricts what can be studied in universities and the type of progress that can be made. Say Republicans end up controlling this board they could silence legitimate research that they simply disagree with. For instance a professor studying economics could find that the Republican favored trickle down theory does not translate into reality, something current economist do find, but because of political climate he might be remiss in publishing and the university might push him not to publish because it threatens funding. The same could go for people researching the effects of US global policy in the subsequent rise of organizations like the Khemer Rouge or ISIS; we've already seen Republicans try to shut down this kind of stuff in AP history classes at the high school level. Or if a Democrat was in charge research critical to global warming or research showing the benefits of certain welfare programs have bee overstated risk being shut down. All of it legitimate research that should be put before a peer review committee to see whether it is worth publishing all shut down in some 1984 claim of "Freedom".
Also this is markedly an attack on free speech. The government would in essence demand the firing of someone for his political speech even though his employer, in this case the university, has no issues with it.
Quote: SanchoPanzaYou might see the problem if you had remembered what you had posted shortly before and not trimmed it:
"I never even agreed with your premise that Obama "inserts himself on a certain side of local criminal issues before they were fully investigated." What is this even in reference to, and why is it "stupid?""
I still don't accept the premise that he "inserted himself on a certain side" of those issues.
When did he say George Zimmerman or that oafish white guy who's name I can't remember that murdered Michael Brown were guilty?
I must've missed those statements...
Then what you should do is look up on your favored search engine "Trayvon Martin" and "Obama" and "my son." Not that we're expecting any report back on the results based on past experience.Quote: ams288I still don't accept the premise that he "inserted himself on a certain side" of those issues. When did he say George Zimmerman or that oafish white guy who's name I can't remember that murdered Michael Brown were guilty? I must've missed those statements...
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/03/12/media-and-obama-are-to-blame-for-latest-ferguson-tragedy.html
"The committee titled the report "Missed Opportunities, Shared Responsibilities" because "both of the individuals contributed to the outcome unintentionally. Both had opportunities to try to ratchet down the encounter," Wexler said. "They were both looking at the same set of circumstances from different perspectives. They both had a certain degree of fear of each other.""
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/30/AR2010063001356.html
The President did not say originally that both of them acted stupidly; he said that the police officer did. He did back off of it later, but he should have waited before commenting instead of getting involved right away.
Quote: SanchoPanzaThen what you should do is look up on your favored search engine "Trayvon Martin" and "Obama" and "my son." Not that we're expecting any report back on the results based on past experience.
I do know the exact quote you are referring to, and it does not make your case at all. That's most likely why you didn't quote it here.
I'm STILL waiting for someone to point me to where Obama said that awful racist Zimmerman or that other guy who murdered Michael Brown were guilty.
Quote: ams288I do know the exact quote you are referring to, and it does not make your case at all. That's most likely why you didn't quote it here.
I'm STILL waiting for someone to point me to where Obama said that awful racist Zimmerman or that other guy who murdered Michael Brown were guilty.
Where did anyone say it had to be proven that the President said someone was guilty?
He just should have stayed out of the issues.
Quote: RonCWhere did anyone say it had to be proven that the President said someone was guilty?
He just should have stayed out of the issues.
You said he came down "on a certain side."
His comments were appropriate and he was right to wade in.
And again, what does this have to do with Ben Carson?!?
Quote: ams288You said he came down "on a certain side."
His comments were appropriate and he was right to wade in.
And again, what does this have to do with Ben Carson?!?
1. He did come down on a certain side.
2. His comments were not appropriate--he judged before having all the facts. That really isn't okay for any of us, but certainly not for the President of the US.
3. He should have waded in once all the facts were in if he felt it was important to him to do so then.
The only link to Ben Carson, which I already pointed out and you ignored, was that your opinion is that Carson's statement was stupid and I countered that Obama has made some stupid comments of his own. I personally don't think Carson's statement was horrible at all, but the voters can fix it if they feel that way by not electing him. The President saying stupid things has more impact because he is in office. He has the bully pulpit.
Then you called me the King or some manner of insult. Of course, it wasn't a horrible insult or anything like that. It was just a run of the mill insult. I'm sure you can do better than that!!!
Quote: RonCThe only link to Ben Carson, which I already pointed out and you ignored, was that your opinion is that Carson's statement was stupid and I countered that Obama has made some stupid comments of his own.
Ah, so my claim of "false equivalence" still stands.
When Obama says stupid things about Hitler and slavery, then you'll have a good counterargument. Till then, keep trying....
Quote: ams288Ah, so my claim of "false equivalence" still stands.
When Obama says stupid things about Hitler and slavery, then you'll have a good counterargument. Till then, keep trying....
I don't think Carson's statement was "stupid"...it was a warning to beware of giving up too many freedoms. Wow. A horrible message.
I made no comment about slavery, but I am betting that it was taken out of context, too.
Sometimes using strong words like Hitler and slavery is too much for people to stomach and they can choose not to elect a candidate who uses those type of examples.
Quote: RonC1. He did come down on a certain side.
2. His comments were not appropriate--he judged before having all the facts. That really isn't okay for any of us, but certainly not for the President of the US.
3. He should have waded in once all the facts were in if he felt it was important to him to do so then.
.
Nixon did declare Manson guilty DURING the trail
Obama commented AFTER the Zimmerman trial
Quote: RonCI don't think Carson's statement was "stupid"...it was a warning to beware of giving up too many freedoms. Wow. A horrible message.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum
Quote: ams288https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum
Brilliant!! Amazing!!
Who gives a crap?
It was an observation of what has happened before, not a prediction.
Quote: terapinedNixon did declare Manson guilty DURING the trail
Obama commented AFTER the Zimmerman trial
If that is true, Nixon should have waited.
Obama commented well before the trial:
"March 22, 2012 - Sanford police chief Bill Lee announces he will resign "temporarily."
Rallies calling for George Zimmerman's arrest start taking place across the country. Al Sharpton and NAACP President Ben Jealous join Martin's parents and hundreds of others at a rally in Sanford. In New York City, hundreds of people attend a "Million Hoodie March," wearing T-shirts and carrying signs bearing phrases including, "I am Trayvon Martin."
"March 23, 2012 - President Barack Obama comments on the case, saying he thinks the shooting should be investigated and telling reporters: "If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon.""
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/trayvon-martin-shooting-a-timeline-of-events/
Again, he should have refrained from commenting until after the trial.
Quote: RonCAgain, he should have refrained from commenting until after the trial.
That's your opinion. In no way does that mean it is correct.
-----
Speaking of that, remember when Zimmerman became a hero of the Right for a while? What an awful mistake that was. Take a gander at his Twitter feed. That dude is a straight up psychotic racist.
He will get what is coming to him some day...
Quote: ams288That's your opinion. In no way does that mean it is correct.
You are right. Just as your opinion is not necessarily correct. That is why they are "opinions." We did all that just to get to this?
Quote: ams288Speaking of that, remember when Zimmerman became a hero of the Right for a while? What an awful mistake that was. Take a gander at his Twitter feed. That dude is a straight up psychotic racist.
He will get what is coming to him some day...
Yes, both of them are flawed characters. That doesn't mean that one should be dead; just that both of them have flaws. Neither is a hero.
The right isn't the only one guilty of making heroes out of people that shouldn't be heroes. It is almost sickening some of the special people either side picks to treated as "heroes"...
Seeing as how you failed to post exactly which comments Dr. Carson made that you regard as "stupid," you may or may not be able to explain just what is "stupid" about this statement by Dr. Carson:Quote: ams288I would LOVE to see someone attempt to conflate any of those statements to Ben Carson saying stupid things about Hitler and slavery.
“I’ve talked in the past about how the people in Nazi Germany did not agree with Hitler. A lot of them didn’t. But did they stand up? Did they say anything? No, they kept their mouths shut and look at the atrocities that occurred,” Carson said, speaking at Berean Baptist Church in North Carolina on Wednesday. "And some people think something like that can’t happen here but think again. Look at the world and all those examples of tyranny, it can happen here.”-- http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/ben-carson-talking-hitler/story?id=34184130
/Same as for your reference about his comments on slavery. If this is the one you once again failed to cite, explain just what is "stupd" about it:
""Slavery was a horrible thing and affected many people in horrible ways, some of those effects still present today. So, no, it is not the same as slavery," he said of Obamacare on Wednesday. "However, what needs to be understood here is that the way this country was set up, the people -- we the people were set up at the pinnacle of power in this nation.
"The government is supposed to conform to our will," he added. "By taking the most important thing you have, your health and your health care, and turning that over to the government, you fundamentally shift the power, a huge chunk of it, from the people to the government. This is not the direction that we want the government to go in this nation." " --http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/03/ben-carson-nazi-germany-slavery_n_6263508.html
In cases that involve potential involvement by federal authorities, it is more than inappropriate for the supposedly impartial leader of the country to exert influence for one side of a dispute before investigations have even been concluded.Quote: ams288You said he came down "on a certain side." His comments were appropriate and he was right to wade in. And again, what does this have to do with Ben Carson?!?
I've given you a search construction for one of those, and you apparently refuse to conduct it. So I wouldn't even bother formulating a search request for the other.Quote: ams288I still don't accept the premise that he "inserted himself on a certain side" of those issues. When did he say George Zimmerman or that oafish white guy who's name I can't remember that murdered Michael Brown were guilty? I must've missed those statements...
Quote: SanchoPanzaIn cases that involve potential involvement by federal authorities, it is more than inappropriate for the supposedly impartial leader of the country to exert influence for one side of a dispute before investigations have even been concluded.
Gotta disagree with you here. Armed guy shoots unarmed citizen(s), happens constantly in the US due to political issues fogging justice in legislation and enforcement of gun laws, I do expect the political leader of the nation to address it wherever possible. As somebody likes to say in here, FIX IT!
Which "armed guy" shot which "unarmed citizen"?Quote: beachbumbabsGotta disagree with you here. Armed guy shoots unarmed citizen(s), happens constantly in the US due to political issues fogging justice in legislation and enforcement of gun laws, I do expect the political leader of the nation to address it wherever possible. As somebody likes to say in here, FIX IT!
And the president is supposed to be more than a "political leader." He is supposed to be a national leader of ALL Americans.
Quote: SanchoPanzaIn cases that involve potential involvement by federal authorities, it is more than inappropriate for the supposedly impartial leader of the country to exert influence for one side of a dispute before investigations have even been concluded.
Quote: beachbumbabsGotta disagree with you here. Armed guy shoots unarmed citizen(s), happens constantly in the US due to political issues fogging justice in legislation and enforcement of gun laws, I do expect the political leader of the nation to address it wherever possible. As somebody likes to say in here, FIX IT!
If there is an incident where a police officer shoots an individual, the President should stay out of the issue until the investigation is complete and there is a trial, if one is warranted. If his judgement is that there may be a racial component (or other Federal issue) to it, he should quietly and without fanfare order his justice department to investigate. No grandstanding, just get them investigating without prejudice about what happened.
Now if he wants to speak in general about the amount of armed people shooting unarmed people, he can do that. he just shouldn't do it addressing an issue that is still under investigation. That doesn't work for a lot pf political folks because a lot of shootings don't fit their agenda.
Are politicians from either side addressing the average shooting of one person by another?
Gun crime--if you are involved in a gun or weapon-involved crime (the criminal initiating the crime using a weapon), you should do 10 years minimum.
Those people can replace some of the over-sentenced drug users we have in prisons.
Quote: SanchoPanzaI've given you a search construction for one of those, and you apparently refuse to conduct it. So I wouldn't even bother formulating a search request for the other.
Why not just post the quote instead of giving me a "search construction."
Oh I know, because in reality, the actual quote doesn't fit what you're trying to prove.
Nice try though.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/ben-carson-leads-donald-trump-nationally-for-first-time/article/2574977?custom_click=rss
The Donald made fun of Carson when Carson took the lead in Iowa. Let's see what he says now...
This from Twitter:
"Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump 1h1 hour ago
"@RhatPatriot: @FoxBusiness @realDonaldTrump Why not post the other polls where Trump has 40 percent and Carson is in the teens? Strange?""
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump
Of course. He's turning out to be a fine politician after all!! This is gonna be fun...
I wonder what crazy things he's gonna say to gain more attention and try to retake that number 1 spot...
Quote: RonCIf that is true, Nixon should have waited.
Obama commented well before the trial:
You got me on the Obama Comment, should have researched better :-)
RonC 1 terapined 0 :-)
As to Nixon.
After Nixon's comment that Manson was guilty, it made headlines
Manson got a hold of the newspaper declaring his guilt and held it up for the jury to see
His lawyer demanded a mistrial. Trial went on even though the jury saw Manson hold up the newspaper headline of Nixon declaring his guilt
As too Trump
Seems the guy has a real problem being in 2nd
Say he wins the nomination.
Leading up to the election, say Clinton is kicking his butt in the polls.
Say he quits because he hates being in 2nd, Can the Repubs be able to replace a candidate that quits after the convention?
Quote: terapinedAs too Trump
Seems the guy has a real problem being in 2nd
Say he wins the nomination.
Leading up to the election, say Clinton is kicking his butt in the polls.
Say he quits because he hates being in 2nd, Can the Repubs be able to replace a candidate that quits after the convention?
Is he really behind if he never acknowledges it?
For the search-engine impaired:Quote: ams288Why not just post the quote instead of giving me a "search construction." Oh I know, because in reality, the actual quote doesn't fit what you're trying to prove. Nice try though.
"You know, when Trayvon Martin was first shot I said that this could have been my son." No citation given because it would not make the slightest difference. My search engine lists "About 63,141 results."
Quote: ams288Donald has been bragging about every poll he's been ahead in for months. Now that he's behind in some, he says he doesn't believe them.
I wonder what crazy things he's gonna say to gain more attention and try to retake that number 1 spot...
Just to be clear, Trump is still very entrenched in the #1 spot nationally, but running behind in Iowa in the latest polls. He could have a complete personal meltdown.....or not. Hard to predict that guy ;-)
Whatever happens, I predict the times just ahead will be colorful!
Quote: SanchoPanzaFor the search-engine impaired:
"You know, when Trayvon Martin was first shot I said that this could have been my son." No citation given because it would not make the slightest difference. My search engine lists "About 63,141 results."
And.... That equates to him coming down "on a certain side" how???
Quote: TwoFeathersATLJust to be clear, Trump is still very entrenched in the #1 spot nationally, but running behind in Iowa in the latest polls. He could have a complete personal meltdown.....or not. Hard to predict that guy ;-)
Whatever happens, I predict the times just ahead will be colorful!
Not in all of the latest polls:
"For the first time in months, a national poll shows Donald Trump is not leading the Republican 2016 primary race, and instead has Ben Carson in first place."
"Carson won the support of 26% of Republican primary voters, compared to 22% who are backing Trump, according to CBS News/New York Times. "
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/27/politics/ben-carson-donald-trump-cbs-poll/
It isn't just Iowa and it isn't "The End" either...but we shall see how The Donald reacts in the coming week...
Of course that would be difficult to impossible for some agenda-driven types to figure out. Especially without a basic understanding of the impartiality of the justice and the judicial process combined with the inability to use elementary-school search engines. Meanwhile, we will continue to note the unresponsiveness to the simple questions about Dr. Ben Carson's "stupid" commentaries. All partisan insults, and basically not much substance.Quote: ams288And.... That equates to him coming down "on a certain side" how???
Quote:Amish man sues to buy firearm without photo ID in gun rights, religious freedom lawsuit
Says, it's against his religion to have an ID. edit - id with a photo
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/10/27/amish-man-sues-to-buy-firearm-without-photo-id-in-gun-rights-religious-freedom-lawsuit/?tid=pm_national_pop_b
Quote: SanchoPanzaOf course that would be difficult to impossible for some agenda-driven types to figure out. Especially without a basic understanding of the impartiality of the justice and the judicial process combined with the inability to use elementary-school search engines. Meanwhile, we will continue to note the unresponsiveness to the simple questions about Dr. Ben Carson's "stupid" commentaries. All partisan insults, and basically not much substance.
Really complaining others lack the ability to use a search engine and also complaining there are no mentions of stupid quotes from Carson which can easily be found by searching "stupid things carson has said".
The list you'll find include such gems as “Anyone caught involved in voter fraud should be immediately deported and have his citizenship revoked,” because clearly he would be capable of deporting a US citizen or revoking the citizenship of someone who isn't a citizen.
Obamacare is really I think the worst thing that has happened in this nation since slavery. (He further clarified this includes 9/11) so here you have a man claiming a health care law, even if you say it is a bad health care law, is worse then Jim Crow era laws worse then our disastrous involvement in Vietnam. Worse than Iran-Contra. The list goes on.
There was a whole thing about Muslims not being allowed to be president and claimed that this is what the founders would want, ignoring the fact the issue of Muslims becoming president and holding office was brought up at the time of the signing and while some were opposed they ended up agreeing that it should be allowed with several prominent founders advocating for the allowance.
There was the claim Jews could have stopped HItler had they been armed, neglecting the fact that Nazi Germany was able to defeat several countries with a fully armed military and was able to crush multiple uprising in ghettos when people did have guns. If it was a matter of just needing guns the US could have simply air dropped weapons into ghettos.
He has rejected the notion of war crimes.
There is plenty of utterly moronic things he has said that should easily disqualify him from the presidency. Hell the last one alone should give any rational individual pause. What kind of nation do we risk becoming and allowing others to become if we go back to war as an at all cost affair with the new technology at our disposal.
Quote: RonCNice bunch of what I think are supposed to be quotes with no supporting documentation such as a link.
So are you saying that those quotes aren't legitimate since he didn't cite a source?
I can verify that they are actual crazy Ben Carson quotes.
Google can verify it also.
If he's up in the polls, it's not hurting him, at least on the nomination for the GOP.
Quote: ams288So are you saying that those quotes aren't legitimate since he didn't cite a source?
I can verify that they are actual crazy Ben Carson quotes.
Google can verify it also.
Nah, it just means that people that read them weren't bothering to look at them in context.
Not that I expected that.
Quote: RonCNah, it just means that people that read them weren't bothering to look at them in context.
Not that I expected that.
“Anyone caught involved in voter fraud should be immediately deported and have his citizenship revoked.”
“You know Obamacare is really I think the worst thing that has happened in this nation since slavery. And it is in a way, it is slavery in a way, because it is making all of us subservient to the government, and it was never about health care. It was about control.”
“A lot of people who go into prison straight, and when they come out they’re gay.”
Cmon, this is absurd
Deported and citizenship revoked? Does he actually understand the rights of the American people. Deport a citizen? Where to? lol
Comparing Obamacare to slavery. Its absurd. About 675,000 Americans died in 1918 influenza pandemic. That is definitely one of the worst things to happen to this country since slavery. Obamacare comes nowhere close to slavery or over 1/2 million dying from the flu in 1 year.
Prison makes you gay????????
The guy is a kook. Get real.
Too bad not even one single verifiable instance can be produced. But if the first example offered:Quote: rxwineI've seen most of them before. Several, Carson has tried to "clarify" beyond the original comment. You might say back pedal in some cases also.
"Anyone caught involved in voter fraud should be immediately deported and have his citizenship revoked,” because clearly he would be capable of deporting a US citizen or revoking the citizenship of someone who isn't a citizen."
is any indication, they're all as preposterous as this MSNBC headline from its coverage of what Dr. Carson did say:
"BEN CARSON: STRIP CITIZENSHIP FROM NON-CITIZENS WHO VOTE."
Talk about eager to swallow anything that comes along!
When one makes insulting allegations and assertions beyond the pale, he can expect to be asked the source of his information. The OP clearly has none.Quote: TwirdmanReally complaining others lack the ability to use a search engine and also complaining there are no mentions of stupid quotes from Carson which can easily be found by searching "stupid things carson has said".
Quote: SanchoPanzaToo bad not even one single verifiable instance can be produced. But if the first example offered:
"Anyone caught involved in voter fraud should be immediately deported and have his citizenship revoked,” because clearly he would be capable of deporting a US citizen or revoking the citizenship of someone who isn't a citizen."
is any indication, they're all as preposterous as this MSNBC headline from its coverage of what Dr. Carson did say:
"BEN CARSON: STRIP CITIZENSHIP FROM NON-CITIZENS WHO VOTE."
Talk about eager to swallow anything that comes along!
June 17 2014
Washington Times
"Anyone caught involved in voter fraud should be immediately deported and have his citizenship revoked"
sentence in last paragraph of his column
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jun/17/carson-the-immigration-football/
I was not born in this country. I am an immigrant. I have rights. I am a citizen
We are all immigrants.
I get involved in voter fraud, deport me? He's a loon
Quote: SanchoPanzaToo bad not even one single verifiable instance can be produced.
Really? Here's another one. If someone doesn't produce a source but I know it exists, I certainly won't challenge them. That's just lazy and trying to make cheap points. Try looking something up.
Ben Carson will probably not be their nominee.
Yet they've spent the last several pages of this thread feeling compelled to defend his crazy Hitler/slavery comments. That is just insane to me!
