NTSB wants ,05 DUI level
Most priests I know will be unable to drive to a bar or a restaurant.
How does this effect Vegas?
Quote: pacomartinThe NTSB wants .05 BAC for DUI's across the nation.
Gee, let's just ban alcohol and be done. It worked so well the last time, and is working so well with drugs this time, I wonder whay we haven't done so already.
Quote: NareedGee, let's just ban alcohol and be done. It worked so well the last time, and is working so well with drugs this time, I wonder whay we haven't done so already.
+2
Quote: chickenman+2
+2^2
Quote: NareedGee, let's just ban alcohol and be done. It worked so well the last time, and is working so well with drugs this time, I wonder whay we haven't done so already.
No, lets ban people driving a piece of metal at high speed while not in full control of their body.
That means alcohol, texting, speeding and all sorts of crap.
You want to drink? Don't drive. You want to drive? Don't drink.
Pretty damn simple rule.
That aside, 0.05 is pretty low, and when they trialled it in BC, it led to a lot of problems. 0.05 is now back to being a warning level.
Quote: thecesspit
You want to drink? Don't drive. You want to drive? Don't drink.
.
It is simple, I never drink and drive now. When
I had the bar 30 years ago, I was legally drunk
every night when I drove home. But in 1983 it
was a different time, light years from what they
do to you now if you get caught.
Quote: thecesspitNo, lets ban people driving a piece of metal at high speed while not in full control of their body.
I agree.
But it's a complicated subject which doesn't lend itself to easy solutions. A blood alcohol limit is fine, but it is an average in a large population. 0.05 probably won't seriously inconveninece, let alone render incapable of safe driving, more than a miniscule part of the population.
For the record, I rarely drink outside my home when I need to drive. But once or twice I've had a couple of glasses of wine or a margarita with a meal, and drove in perfect order afterwards.
Quote:That aside, 0.05 is pretty low, and when they trialled it in BC, it led to a lot of problems. 0.05 is now back to being a warning level.
My point exactly. If you begin arresting people for that BAC, you'll be throwing capable, safe drivers into the legal system for no good reason or return.
Quote:My point exactly. If you begin arresting people for that BAC, you'll be throwing capable, safe drivers into the legal system for no good reason or return.
Research suggests that even 0.05 affects your ability to drive. Many people will tell you that they are perfectly fine. People also tell you they can influence dice.
The warning system works, as it stops the person driving and gets them home. It doesn't (as it was doing) levy a big fine (they called it a storage and towing fee) without any way of defending yourself in court. I guess someone could argue with an officer that they are fine, but I suspect they could then be charged, and have those fines assessed.
I do exactly what EvenBob says : I don't drink if I am driving. My friends know that, and they may think I'm a little odd for not even 'having one', but being the son of a man who spent half his working life dealing with the aftermath of drunk drivers, and the son of a woman who worked in the Emergency ward for a a few years, you learn at a young age... don't do that. I don't want to ever get in an accident, kill someone and wonder if it was my blood alcohol content that led to the death.
Quote: thecesspitI don't drink if I am driving. My friends know that, and they may think I'm a little odd for not even 'having one', ...
Essentially, that is the only practical reaction to .05 BAC DUI limit. It isn't worth messing around with. If I have a drink I want another one. And there is no leeway whatsoever with a .05 limit.
DUI at that level is just another hidden tax.
and had discovered beer, I would drive home
so plastered all I could see was the centerline.
Young and stupid. Amazed I made it thru that
period, several of my classmates didn't.
The bar owners have to love this....bar owners will be under more pressure.
What ever happened to the idea that there had to be a victim for there to be a crime? As far as I'm concerned if a person gets on the road knowing there are impaired drivers (impairment comes in many forms), then that person has accepted the risk.
0.08 is the limit in the UK for drivers. The UK has a much larger social force against drink driving than I've seen in Canada and the US.
Quote: treetopbuddy
The bar owners have to love this....bar owners will be under more pressure.
.
I got out of the bar biz just before MADD started up,
thank god. In the early 80's it was never mentioned
that a bar owner was responsible for how drunk somebody
was when they got into an accident. Then a few years
later, wham..
Quote: EvenBobI got out of the bar biz just before MADD started up,
thank god. In the early 80's it was never mentioned
that a bar owner was responsible for how drunk somebody
was when they got into an accident. Then a few years
later, wham..
MADD turned from a 'be aware drink driving is stupid thing to do and wrecks peoples lives' into a prohibition movement. I have contempt for them, as does the person who founded the original charity. (wiki quote : Lightner had left the group in 1985. In 2002, Lightner stated that MADD "has become far more neo-prohibitionist than I had ever wanted or envisioned … I didn't start MADD to deal with alcohol. I started MADD to deal with the issue of drunk driving".)
I don't think bar owners should be legally responsible for how someone gets home after drinking. They should be responsible enough to stop drunks ruining everyone's night, and making it clear drunk drivers are not welcome. But that doesn't require explicit laws, and nor should it. The cretin who drives drunk is responsible, and should be charged for vehicular manslaughter. I despair when people get a light sentence for drunk driving accidents that hurt or kill people.
Quote: EvenBobIn the mid 60's when I was 17 and 18 and in HS,
and had discovered beer, I would drive home
so plastered all I could see was the centerline.
Young and stupid. Amazed I made it thru that
period, several of my classmates didn't.
Were they your passengers? (Just kidding.)
Quote: treetopbuddyMore revenue for the BEAST.....if it's about saving lives, then this country should have a zero tolerance policy on drinking and driving. After all if one live can be saved......
The bar owners have to love this....bar owners will be under more pressure.
What ever happened to the idea that there had to be a victim for there to be a crime? As far as I'm concerned if a person gets on the road knowing there are impaired drivers (impairment comes in many forms), then that person has accepted the risk.
So your saying if a drunk driver kills me, it is my fault for being on the road?
Quote: JBQuote: EvenBobIn the mid 60's when I was 17 and 18 and in HS,
and had discovered beer, I would drive home
so plastered all I could see was the centerline.
Young and stupid. Amazed I made it thru that
period, several of my classmates didn't.
Were they your passengers? (Just kidding.)
One hit a bridge abutment head on and the other
pulled in front of an oncoming car.
Quote: thecesspitMADD turned from a 'be aware drink driving is stupid thing to do and wrecks peoples lives' into a prohibition movement. .
MADD started in 1980 and I sold the bar
in 83. I had never heard of them, and was
glad to get out when I did. The movie Arthur
was a smash hit in 1981, a few years later
Arthur 2 died in the theatres because public
opinion had changed so much about drinking.
But maybe this is some kind of "broken window" theory on drinking and driving.
Quote: CS94So your saying if a drunk driver kills me, it is my fault for being on the road?
There are seven ways from Sunday to die or get severely injured when on the road.. Recognize that when you get into your Prius. By default you are accepting the risk. If you deem the risk to high....walk.
Yes, you a partially to blame....you assumed that you weren't going to get killed. You know Old Sport, in life you pay your nickel and you take chances.
I expect very few to understand this......
Quote: treetopbuddy
Yes, you a partially to blame....you assumed that you weren't going to get killed. You know Old Sport, in life you pay your nickel and you take chances.
Ah, but that is why you can be proactive and do something that minimizes the risk. For example, you can pay people with guns and badges to patrol the highways to forcibly remove and punish reckless idiots who drive impaired.
Quote: thecesspitNo, lets ban people driving a piece of metal at high speed while not in full control of their body.
That means alcohol, texting, speeding and all sorts of crap.
You want to drink? Don't drive. You want to drive? Don't drink.
Pretty damn simple rule.
That aside, 0.05 is pretty low, and when they trialled it in BC, it led to a lot of problems. 0.05 is now back to being a warning level.
It is theoretically the warning level cesspit but still has harsh penalties. $360 fine, 90 day suspension, safe driving course fee and pay to bail out your car. Second time is treated as a full DUI.
Quote: kenarmanIt is theoretically the warning level cesspit but still has harsh penalties. $360 fine, 90 day suspension, safe driving course fee and pay to bail out your car. Second time is treated as a full DUI.
My understanding is that they've stopped many parts of those penalties (some were being assesed without a right to a trial, which is where there was problems). The 90 day suspension is only enforced at the 0.08 level, I thought?
Quote: paisielloAh, but that is why you can be proactive and do something that minimizes the risk. For example, you can pay people with guns and badges to patrol the highways to forcibly remove and punish reckless idiots who drive impaired.
Well as you know Old Sport, we pay lots and lots people to carry guns that have badges.....drive around, you see them everywhere. More and more DUI checkpoints, that should make you feel better. Maybe you can get deputized, Sheriff Joe in Arizona would love to have you join his ranks. You could beat down "impaired" drivers with your shiny billy club.
Quote: HunterhillIf they are driving impaired they should be beat down,and while were at it lets beat anyone texting and driving also.
I'll guarantee you sport, that you would be first in line at the public caning.
We have cities creating vest pocket "parks" to drive sex offenders out of marginal housing, we allocate resources to imaginary problems, we fund DARE programs that are useless, so why should our DUI laws make any sense?
Quote: FleaStiffIn some areas with poor taxi service, DUIs would be rampant. Just as there are speed traps or simple ordinary traffic enforcement that snares mainly good drivers.
We have cities creating vest pocket "parks" to drive sex offenders out of marginal housing, we allocate resources to imaginary problems, we fund DARE programs that are useless, so why should our DUI laws make any sense?
As usual FleaStiff is right on......I don't know why I continue to push back. Everybody needs a cause.
That's a damn poor excuse, the sort of lack of personal responsibility that many people on the right seem to bemoan the country doesn't have any more.
Obviously what I said went completely 100% over your head. I was responding to your original comment about risk.Quote: treetopbuddyWell as you know Old Sport, we pay lots and lots people to carry guns that have badges.....drive around, you see them everywhere. More and more DUI checkpoints, that should make you feel better. Maybe you can get deputized, Sheriff Joe in Arizona would love to have you join his ranks. You could beat down "impaired" drivers with your shiny billy club.
Quote: paisielloObviously what I said went completely 100% over your head. I was responding to your original comment about risk.
Sorry, I misunderstood what you were trying to convey. Didn't pickup on the nuance of your post, mainly due to idea that I was going to take on heavy incoming. Unless your taking about String theory an the like.....very little goes over my head......sport
It`s really simple, don`t drink if your going to drive or stop drinking an hour or two before you drive.Quote: treetopbuddytwo beers and everybody goes to jail
Quote: Hunterhilland while were at it lets beat anyone texting and driving also.
I'm ok with that.
Quote: rxwineI'd rather see enforcement resources increased on 2 or more DUI violations at the current level.
TWO ? ? ?
I see articles in the paper once every couple months about some a**hole who has 6 or more DUI's ! Anyone can make a mistake, but 6 or more is playing Russian Roulette with my family. LOCK THEM UP. For a long time.
Quote: djatcIt always fascinated me how people can't think to take a cab.
I saw hundreds of these guys when I had the
bar. Alcohol effects your judgement, they
really think they are OK to drive. Plus, calling
a cab makes you look like a wussy, and nobody
wants that.
Quote: djatcThen I'd hear stories about people who took the risk to drive back home while drunk. Go figure.
Because impaired driving is fun! Haven't you seen Pulp Fiction? The cool night wind in your hair, tunes blaring, city lights. I was plowed into by a drunk driver (it wasn't EvenBob, because this person could only speak spanish "yo no se nada!!!") but wasn't seriously injured. I probably deserved it because, when I was younger, I drove drunk often. There were times I would drink WHILE driving. So stupid. Stay in school, kids and if you're gonna drink, save it for the Dodgers parking lot before the game... not on the way.
Quote: RogerKintBecause impaired driving is fun! Haven't you seen Pulp Fiction? The cool night wind in your hair, tunes blaring, city lights. .
They say that scene with Travolta, high as kite
on heroin, single handedly started a heroin
craze that lasted for years in the US and EU.
Quote: EvenBobI saw hundreds of these guys when I had the
bar. Alcohol effects your judgement, they
really think they are OK to drive. Plus, calling
a cab makes you look like a wussy, and nobody
wants that.
And bar regulars also have a bigger tolerance where they probably don't feel much at 0.08. And calling a cab also makes car recovery a pain unless you have someone willing to drive you back there in the morning. I generally try to avoid drinking and driving, but I see why people do it, even though they shouldn't.
Quote: tringlomaneAnd bar regulars also have a bigger tolerance where they probably don't feel much at 0.08. .
Every bar has as its base the regular customers, the
guys that are in there drinking every day. You can
make money owning a bar if you have just 20 regulars.
These guys are pro drunk drivers. They do get caught
but not often. They know just how much is too much
and leave when they've had enough. They're drunk
for sure, but not too drunk to drive in their opinions.
Quote: JohnnyQTWO ? ? ?
I see articles in the paper once every couple months about some a**hole who has 6 or more DUI's ! Anyone can make a mistake, but 6 or more is playing Russian Roulette with my family. LOCK THEM UP. For a long time.
Sure, but why expend extra resources on low BAT people with this law? Police only get around to enforcing some violations of law anyway. If they add in all these new people to process that's less time for repeat offenders. That's why I say, concentrate on people with two OR MORE DUIs. Those people can't claim they learned anything from the first mistake.
Quote: EvenBobEvery bar has as its base the regular customers, the
guys that are in there drinking every day. You can
make money owning a bar if you have just 20 regulars.
These guys are pro drunk drivers. They do get caught
but not often. They know just how much is too much
and leave when they've had enough. They're drunk
for sure, but not too drunk to drive in their opinions.
The pro drinkers are rarely the "problem"....they make sure all lights are working. Brake lights, blinkers, brights, plate light working, fog lights, interior lights, windshield wiper working, current tags.....no dents on vehicle. Drive speed limit, breath freshener on hand. If pulled over the pros can talk to cop while breathing in......that is not easy to do.
A small percentage of drivers when liquored up have to drive 100+ miles per hour......hence the "problem".
Last month I saw a guy driving while getting a BJ,now if he rearended the car in front of him ,he might have been in the same shape as Lorena Bobbit`s husband.Quote: kenarmanThis is a math board yet we still have many that can't get a real handle on actual risk of something. I am sure that nobody reading or participating in this thread thinks that a blotty drunk should be on the road. What we are talking about is 0 tolerance or .05 or pick another percentage. I am sure that many other drivers are as likely to get into an accident as a driver who blows .05%. Some that come to mind are: taking a night time cold medicine (maybe even a daytime cold medicine), driving yourself home from the hospital after all kinds of out patient procedures, driving when you are over tired or sleep deprived (almost every college student), just had a fight with somone you love, pissed that your favorite team just lost, just lost your self control in the casino and blew the rent. You can add your own favorite, the point is that everyone at some point is driving at well under 100% effeciency but the only one we want to turn into a criminal is the drinking driver who has had 1 or maybe 2 drinks.
Quote: kenarmanThis is a math board yet we still have many that can't get a real handle on actual risk of something. I am sure that nobody reading or participating in this thread thinks that a blotty drunk should be on the road. What we are talking about is 0 tolerance or .05 or pick another percentage. I am sure that many other drivers are as likely to get into an accident as a driver who blows .05%. Some that come to mind are: taking a night time cold medicine (maybe even a daytime cold medicine), driving yourself home from the hospital after all kinds of out patient procedures, driving when you are over tired or sleep deprived (almost every college student), just had a fight with somone you love, pissed that your favorite team just lost, just lost your self control in the casino and blew the rent. You can add your own favorite, the point is that everyone at some point is driving at well under 100% effeciency but the only one we want to turn into a criminal is the drinking driver who has had 1 or maybe 2 drinks.
Yes, some things are similar. But others aren't. You are potentially impaired 100% of the time once you've been drinking. For instance, reaching for something in the back seat while driving is likley unwise, but it usually isn't done for the entire drive.
Quote: EvenBobThey say that scene with Travolta, high as kite
on heroin, single handedly started a heroin
craze that lasted for years in the US and EU.
That heroin craze is still strong as ever.
Quote: EvenBobI saw hundreds of these guys when I had the
bar. Alcohol effects your judgement, they
really think they are OK to drive. Plus, calling
a cab makes you look like a wussy, and nobody
wants that.
I still remember a guy asked the bartender to call a cab for him. The guy wasn't the worst drunk around but was getting irritating to most of the people at the bar. So he asks the bartender if he finished calling the cab and the bartender says, "no, I called the cops!"
You had to see what happened. Guy takes his fresh drink and picks it up, then runs out the door and keeps running down the street (street "T"ed across the street from the bar.) Guy is running while holding the drink being careful not to spill any. And it wasn't a plastic cup but a regular glass cup about 16oz. So the 15 or so people in the bar are watching this in total amazement.
Bartender says he was just breaking the guy's balls and had to call and cancel the cab.
Yeah, just sit there and do nothing for an hour or two. The bartender will be in favor of that ...taking up his space but not drinking...sort of makes him raise his prices too. Great fun, go out, have two beers and stare at the clock for an hour.Quote: HunterhillIt`s really simple, don`t drink if your going to drive or stop drinking an hour or two before you drive.
