BBC: Could legalising marijuana save the US economy?
Quote: EvenBobBut if you allow pot in the system, you'll have
those guys getting blasted in the parking lot.
Everybody knows this. I give this law 18 months
before it gets repealed.
Thats like saying if you let a guy drink on the weekends he's going to come to work after downing a fifth. Its stupid sure you'll have some guys do it just like the drinking and you fire those but to think everyone will is incredibly misinformed.
What someone does on the weekend or the night before is really none of the employer's business. If THC is legal in Colorado, someone should challenge urine testing for marijuana.
Besides, Marijuana clearly affects performance, and a marijuana "problem" would be seen pretty much on the spot.
Quote: EvenBobBut if you allow pot in the system, you'll have
those guys getting blasted in the parking lot.
Everybody knows this. I give this law 18 months
before it gets repealed.
I'll take the NO WAY side of that bet. Too much money involved. All most people here see is that their own taxes might be reduced.
Talk about crazy math.
Afraid not. Worked in Denver 1974-2000 at AT&T. Bosses had no idea who was high. Used to walk steps for exercise. Always a few employes getting high on steps from 14th floor to roof. And never noticed the film containers on a desk. Yeah, like them guys were into photography.
Quote: Buzzard" Besides, Marijuana clearly affects performance, and a marijuana "problem" would be seen pretty much on the spot. "
Afraid not. Worked in Denver 1974-2000 at AT&T. Bosses had no idea who was high. Used to walk steps for exercise. Always a few employes getting high on steps from 14th floor to roof. And never noticed the film containers on a desk. Yeah, like them guys were into photography.
Yeah, but AT&T sucks.
Quote: TwirdmanThats like saying if you let a guy drink on the weekends he's going to come to work after downing a fifth...sure you'll have some guys do it
Shifty contradicts himself in the same post...LOL!!
Quote: Beethoven9thShifty contradicts himself in the same post...LOL!!
You realize there is a difference between some people doing it and everyone doing it. BoB argued everyone would do it I argued some people may do it and you can fire them. You should really learn about shades of grey they make the world incredibly interesting.
The shift has started already!Quote: TwirdmanYou realize there is a difference between some people doing it and everyone doing it. BoB argued everyone would do it
Hey Shifty, NOBODY said that. It's all in your head, just like in the other thread. Your shifts are embarrassing, and it's sad that you have to lie in order to debate someone.
Quote: Mission146Sephiroth was more of a badass, but Kefka was better in terms of being a pure villain. Kefka was just a straight-up Nihilist, he wanted to destroy the world, because, why not? Sephiroth could have dispatched of Cloud and gang rather handily, and way earlier in the game, but he was too worried about his Mommy. It's okay, though, I gave him a good object lesson in the benefits of staying focused on the task at hand.
+1 Kefka was a badass. He became God and ruled the world of ruin after the floating continent. Sephiroth walked around a bit. Both great games but I would pay to forget about FFVI more then VII so I could play it again from the beginning.
I stopped like halfway through FFX, I heard I haven't missed much. It's weird though from like 2003-2005 I went through a buying spree of every RPG I could find for Ps1/Ps2 and then I got into online MMOs so I ended up selling all of them off. Now like 2 weeks ago I got into Steam and have been buying some games at rock bottom prices that I missed. Got all the Grand Theft Autos for like 14 dollars. Got some other old games for 1 and 2 dollars each/ GoG.com (Good old Games) also does this where they will sometimes sell bundles of 20-30 old games for less than 10 dollars.
But yeah back on topic, at least it wasn't X-Death. There was no FF boss dumber than X-Death.
Back on main topic, investing in pot shops seems like a good idea except I heard Monsanto is trying to corner the market on the growing aspect. Between that and the tax issues, I wonder what the overall profit margin is going to be when more states adopt it and it loses the exclusivity that it has now.
Quote: PerditionI stopped like halfway through FFX, I heard I haven't missed much.
What are you, high? ;) FFX was fantastic, good enough to inspire my drawings that I posted a few pages back. Certainly one for the ages. I just played it through again last year, which says something some 13 years after its release. I hear tell they're being HD remastered; I'd suggest giving it another go.
One thing I want to see on this legalization front is less talk about the money being brought in, and more on how much is being saved. Go ahead and pile on the cost of any negatives you can find, I know it won't make a dent. Someone has to bring to the forefront the complete fuckaree that is the War on Drugs.
I can't think they're not connected. Just seems the value is obtained from a limited supply and people not wanting to wind up in prison. When you take out the fear, you'll open the flood waters of people willing to grow and sell. Sure, there is some degree of experience needed and regulations in place to limit participants like any other business, but eventually it comes down to being a commodity and the price plummets. Maybe Monsanto will patent super weed and find a way to sue people out of business, but if not people will not notice too much of a difference between many products. There are some people developing strains they will have special for things like epilepsy which are unique and as long as nobody steals seeds, they're set. Even good liquor really isn't too much different from decent and marijuana seems easier to produce as far as I can tell, so I see harder to control. I kind of have trouble thinking people will care too much about what product they smoke as long as they get stoned and like the taste.Quote: Face
One thing I want to see on this legalization front is less talk about the money being brought in, and more on how much is being saved. Go ahead and pile on the cost of any negatives you can find, I know it won't make a dent. Someone has to bring to the forefront the complete fuckaree that is the War on Drugs.
Though it will be better for the country to have whatever revenue officially in the system and not enriching people by throwing people in jail for what boils down to a difference in opinion where true rationality is thrown out the window.
So the bottom line is money will be legitimized into the economy and money will not be wasted for useless activities keeping people in captivity. Good for America for some time until low cost labor countries start shipping it in. The hysteria and hype about fearing weed will be seen as just an ignorant phase America went through and nobody will ever be sure why.
Quote: FaceWhat are you, high? ;) FFX was fantastic, good enough to inspire my drawings that I posted a few pages back. Certainly one for the ages. I just played it through again last year, which says something some 13 years after its release. I hear tell they're being HD remastered; I'd suggest giving it another go.
One thing I want to see on this legalization front is less talk about the money being brought in, and more on how much is being saved. Go ahead and pile on the cost of any negatives you can find, I know it won't make a dent. Someone has to bring to the forefront the complete fuckaree that is the War on Drugs.
I thought you were the high one lol. I did mean to say that since FFX I haven't heard they were good, that FFX was considered the last good one but I only got about helfway before I was doing games like City of Heroes fulltime. I don't know the new FFs that were 3d and all never hooked me in like the old ones. I mean FFVII was good and all, but FVIII I thought wasn't that good besides the card game, and FFIX was kind of forgettable. In fact the last boss of that might be my 2nd least favorite boss. FFX started well enough, I don't know it just kind of meandered on, to be fair I think I will give it a try this year. FFX-2 I heard was just the girl characters doing girl things, FFXI was online, FFXII was kind of there, and FXIII I heard was very convoluted. Not trying to be a RPG snob or anything, just giving my honest thoughts. The only Square Enix game I ever put down and said I will not play another second of was Chrono Cross, just totally rubbed me the wrong way.
I could make a whole list of the ones I liked, mostly from the PS1, but I think I will try and play them again at some point. Thanks to emulators and streaming services, you can play lots of those types of games now without having to spend tons of money for the games.
One more thought, this trip down memory lane brought up my all time favorite dungeon. It was a game for the Super Nintendo called Lufia II. It had a cave that went 100 floors deep. It was totally optional and you could skip it if you wanted but it was fun to try. Your characters got sent back to level 1 and you had to equip yourself with chests from the dungeon. You had red ones and blue ones. The blue chests you could take the items outside the dungeon but if you died, you lost everything so it was always a choice of hedging your bets or risking that extra floor. Never seen a game before or since execute it like that game did. Was awesome. Also Dungeons and Dragons: Treasure of Tarmin for the Intellivision was fun as well.
Ok think I derailed this thread enough , back to the weed talk.
Quote: beachbumbabsOver 400 a half-ounce? Are you kidding me? That's ridiculously high-priced.
Wow that is high,
Florida Black Market for high grade strains such as Lemon Kush, 400 for a full ounce.
Quote: FaceSomeone has to bring to the forefront the complete fuckaree that is the War on Drugs.
I look at it, and I know I'm a moron, but I seem to be the one-eyed man in the land of the blind. Everything about it is insane.
We already did this. Nearly a century ago, we criminalized a different drug (alcohol), and it was a disaster. Why would you have expected anything different now?
And nobody benefits. The world would overwhelmingly be a better place if we respected people's rights as individuals. One of the ironies is that drug users are disrespected because they're addicts. But the zealots are addicted to a different type of drug: control.
(Sorry, I'm not up to "speed" [no pun] on the video game discussion, so no comment there.)
Awesome drawings, ever draw VV?
Quote: gpac1377Nearly a century ago, we criminalized a different drug (alcohol), and it was a disaster. Why would you have expected anything different now?
I know all the pro-pot people are going to jump all over me, but to address this specific argument, it's because literally everyone drinks alcohol. (Well, OK.....maybe "literally" is an exaggeration, but 99% of people do drink every now and then. The number of pot users isn't even close.)
Even though I oppose legalization, it's actually not as high a priority with me as it used to be. I just get frustrated at poor arguments. The strongest argument I've heard is the "liberty" argument (used by Ron Paul and other libertarians). One can make a very strong case with it.
The other poor argument I always hear is in regards to all the money we have "wasted" on the War on Drugs. OK, fine, but if that's a good argument for ending a program, then let's also end the War on Poverty. We've spent MUCH more on the War on Poverty, and poverty sure as hell hasn't ended. I just want some consistency.
Quote: terapinedWow that is high,
Florida Black Market for high grade strains such as Lemon Kush, 400 for a full ounce.
Medical grade marijuana goes for 600-700 or more an oz in New York. 350-400 an ounce in Kentucky.
The further east you go the higher the price.....generally.
I was driving out to the farm and following behind a farmer that was hauling10 rolls of round bale hay.
A round bales weighs approximately 300 lbs.....10 bales x 300= 3000 lbs. They looked like
50 dollar round bales. 3000 lbs of hay for 500 bucks. An once of hay cost slightly more than a penny.
An ounce of the ugly weed is 500 bucks.
Is my math correct? Pot is 50,000 times more expensive than hay?
Hay and pot are equally easy to grow. More technology and capital required to farm hay. How could this be?
Prohibition! Is there anything this country is not warring on these days?
Quote: Beethoven9thThe strongest argument I've heard is the "liberty" argument (used by Ron Paul and other libertarians). One can make a very strong case with it.
Yes, it's totally about liberty. I was arguing a (debatable) supplemental point to show the extreme absurdity of the current situation. It's hard to know with any certainty how people would react to freedom because it hasn't been tried.
Quote: Beethoven9thEven though I oppose legalization, it's actually not as high a priority with me as it used to be. I just get frustrated at poor arguments. The strongest argument I've heard is the "liberty" argument (used by Ron Paul and other libertarians). One can make a very strong case with it.
It is a very strong argument. YOU own your body and YOU get to decide what goes into it.
Quote: bigfoot66It is a very strong argument. YOU own your body and YOU get to decide what goes into it.
Yup, Beethoven 9th, the hypocrite, its ok to eat a trillion tons of trans fats but one toke and B9 is up in arms.
Typical conservative hypocrite.
*facepalm*
Quote: terapinedYup, Beethoven 9th, the hypocrite, its ok to eat a trillion tons of trans fats but one toke and B9 is up in arms.
Typical conservative hypocrite.
*facepalm*
And here I thought that this thread was going to proceed smoothly.
Please do yourself a favor- obtain a dictionary and look up the definition of the word "hypocrite".
Quote: terapinedYup, Beethoven 9th, the hypocrite, its ok to eat a trillion tons of trans fats but one toke and B9 is up in arms
You didn't read my post. (As usual)
I'm not "up in arms" about it. If you had read my post, you would have seen that I specifically stated that it's not a high priority for me anymore and that the libertarian argument is very strong.
Quote: Beethoven9thI know all the pro-pot people are going to jump all over me, but to address this specific argument, it's because literally everyone drinks alcohol. (Well, OK.....maybe "literally" is an exaggeration, but 99% of people do drink every now and then. The number of pot users isn't even close.)
.
I smoked it when I was very young, 19-20-21. But
like most people, I outgrew it, I got bored with the
dopey feeling it gives you. You can't concentrate,
it's hard to get anything done. I would hate that
feeling now, what a massive waste of time it would
be. I think a lot of people who do it on a regular
basis are not happy, they need a constant
vacay from themselves and their lives. Getting drugged
does that for them.
Quote: EvenBobI smoked it when I was very young, 19-20-21. But
like most people, I outgrew it
Me too. Tried it a few times many years ago, but I could take it or leave it. As for alcohol, I (along with millions of other Americans) have a beer or some wine every now and then, yet there really isn't an equivalent with marijuana usage. I know many social drinkers, but no social potheads. Also, and I mean no disrespect to anybody here, but the potheads whom I personally know are all losers with a capital 'L'.
Marijuana has long been considered a "gateway drug". Whether that is valid or not I am not sure.
To be clear, I feel that the government's take on alcohol and tobacco is wrong. Tobacco is clearly harmful for you and provides no benefit. It increases medical costs and there is absolutely no benefit. It should be banned, and if the source of tobacco was another country, I'm pretty sure it could be without much argument. Marijuana has a medical beneift but its existence as a recreational drug provides no benefit. Therefore, i support keeping it as a Schedule II (prescription drug).
I don't support the drugging of society. It's a slippery slope. The last thing I want is to walk into my local drug store and pick up a dose of herion, crack cocaine, marijuana, ecstasy, etc. Marijuana to me is the third step towards that realization.
Wow, I think this is a first for me, but I have to give boymimbo a:Quote: boymimboThe last thing I want is to walk into my local drug store and pick up a dose of herion, crack cocaine, marijuana, ecstasy, etc.
+1
Quote: Beethoven9thMe too. Tried it a few times many years ago, but I could take it or leave it. As for alcohol, I (along with millions of other Americans) have a beer or some wine every now and then, yet there really isn't an equivalent with marijuana usage. I know many social drinkers, but no social potheads. Also, and I mean no disrespect to anybody here, but the potheads whom I personally know are all losers with a capital 'L'.
I consider alcohol a hard drug. Its so hard, you drink enough, you cant even stand.
You drink so much, you slur your words.
Very dangerous drug, you get wasted and cannot function.
I simply like a socially mild buzz such as pot, no interest in getting wasted on a hard drug such as alcohol.
A mild buzz is all I want. Pot does it.
I was the only person among the the forum mermbers after the nugget challenge at the 4 Queens that did not smoke a cig or drink a drop of alcohol.
Still had a fantastic time.
I used to be a hardcore deadhead. All the concerts were memorable. Over 100 shows and not wasted for a single one because no alcohol for me.
As for loser, this loser is such a loser I am spending 1st week of March madness in Vegas.
Live in Tampa, vacation in Vegas, yea, love being that kind of loser.
Quote: Beethoven9thAlso, and I mean no disrespect to anybody here, but the potheads whom I personally know are all losers with a capital 'L'.
I still know one woman from 40 years ago
who smokes it every day, and she's an
airhead with issues. She has the attention
span of a fruit fly, and is on husband number
4. She gets wasted every night, and was even
into heroin for a year in the 90's. Of all
all the people I used to smoke with, only one
still does it occasionally. The rest don't dislike
it, they just don't need it, it's not in their
lives at all.
LOL!!
Quote: terapined
no interest in getting wasted on a hard drug such as alcohol.
.
Gee, too bad there's no middle ground with
alcohol for you. Most of us don't get 'wasted'
on alcohol, ya know, we stop long before we
get there. Too bad you don't have enough
resolve to do that.
Not true. I have a can of beer or a glass of wine every now and then, but I'm not "wasted" afterwards.Quote: terapinedVery dangerous drug, you get wasted and cannot function.
Why does this not surprise me? lol...Quote: terapinedI used to be a hardcore deadhead.
I never said (or implied) that you were a loser. I apologize if you got that impression. I was talking about people whom I personally know.Quote: terapinedAs for loser, this loser is such a loser I am spending 1st week of March madness in Vegas.
Live in Tampa, vacation in Vegas, yea, love being that kind of loser.
Did you make sure there was no copyright infringement on that pic?Quote: boymimboYikes. In response to Beethoven's +1 for me, I give him the honorary facepalm.
Quote: AxelWolfDid you make sure there was no copyright infringement on that pic?
It's comes off of wiki, and there is no copyright on the photo. Thanks for asking. ;)
To add, a person belong to wikia.com agrees to:
Quote: Wikia.com Terms of Use
¡Not to upload, post, email, transmit or otherwise make available any content that infringes any patent, trademark, trade secret, copyright or other proprietary rights of any party;
Therefore, I assume that the person uploading this photo had no content that infringed a copyright, and therefore my use of the photo falls under fair use.
Hugs and kisses, Axelwolf.
ION... I've been hearing $500/oz over this end of the USA. That is still too expensive, but IDK what the taxation is. $200/oz doesn't sound too bad.
Quote: Beethoven9thMe too. Tried it a few times many years ago, but I could take it or leave it. As for alcohol, I (along with millions of other Americans) have a beer or some wine every now and then, yet there really isn't an equivalent with marijuana usage. I know many social drinkers, but no social potheads. Also, and I mean no disrespect to anybody here, but the potheads whom I personally know are all losers with a capital 'L'.
There's a lot of social pot smokers in BC. It's common enough for people to have a small smoke once a week, like you'd take a beer or a glass of wine. The constant pot heads exist too, of course, it is British Columbia after all. But it's not THAT common, and like the constant drinker, they tend to have their own associates into the same scene.
Heavy duty pot smokers are dull, lifeless people in general. But heavy duty drinkers are as well.
Quote: thecesspitThere's a lot of social pot smokers in BC. It's common enough for people to have a small smoke once a week, like you'd take a beer or a glass of wine.
That's interesting. I'm curious to see what happens in Colorado. Pro-marijuana people swear that the new law won't result in more pot usage, but we'll see. I agree that heavy marijuana users are pretty harmless as far as their behavior is concerned, although they're annoying as hell. lol
Quote: EvenBob
I smoked it when I was very young, 19-20-21. But
like most people, I outgrew it, I got bored with the
dopey feeling it gives you. You can't concentrate,
it's hard to get anything done. I would hate that
feeling now, what a massive waste of time it would
be. I think a lot of people who do it on a regular
basis are not happy, they need a constant
vacay from themselves and their lives. Getting drugged
does that for them.
Cannabis is much stronger and more refined now that it was then. Think of it as a couple white crosses versus today's Walter White's blue meth. I would never smoke in public but at the end of the night, it puts me right to sleep like Sominex never could. One hit does it, and it keeps me asleep all night, but I can't follow any TV show afterwards. It's strictly a '5 minutes before bed' ritual for me. Having it legalized will not increase my useage at all.
My favorite line: "The owner of the Colorado Springs dispensary told the Denver Post he is planning to get a concealed-weapons permit for protection..." (How ironic...LOL!)
Also, we should probably NOT spend any money to help these pot shops fight the cartels since libs hate spending money on the war on drugs...
Legalization might help the government (never a good thing). More tax revenue and less money spent on throwing pot smokers in jail. Pot smokers in general like buying from friends and sometimes the guy in a trench coat. What we would have here is another government sponsored enterprise.
THC levels across the board are higher than lets say the seventies. Although very potent weed was available in the 70's and before. Hash oils, etc were widely used going way back.
It takes less pot to get the same high that smokers were looking for in the 60-70's. Smokers use less marijuana today to get the same high.
The underground pot economy is highly efficient and great for the economy. Once the government gets involved the efficiencies go out the window. Regulation and taxation levels on the weed will always make an underground pot economy competitive.
Miami was build on the illegal drug trade.
I smoke rarely, it's no big deal. I find it takes the fight out of me and leaves me couch locked which really is not a good thing.
Quote: Beethoven9thThat's interesting. I'm curious to see what happens in Colorado. Pro-marijuana people swear that the new law won't result in more pot usage, but we'll see. I agree that heavy marijuana users are pretty harmless as far as their behavior is concerned, although they're annoying as hell. lol
Interestingly enough, when Amsterdam legalized it I believe their usage was at about 23% of the population before legalization. The first couple of years, one to three, the usage spiked to about 25-27%. After that period though the usage dropped to about 20-21%, lower than when illegal. There may have been other factors involved such as other things becoming legal as well but, it mainly stemmed from the "illegal" aspect of it all. Tell someone they can't do something and the first thing they do is go and do it. I think something similar will happen in Colorado and Washington. As for most users these days, most are not looking to get completely messed up, they just want a little to take the edge off or whatever they feel it helps. Certain people it helps with sleep, social anxiety, lack of appetite, naseua, pain. Often times the side effects of marijuana are far less harmful than the drugs used to treat the same problems with pharmaceuticals. It is not like we all haven't seen that commercial for the drug that treats one thing, something that may just be a nuisance, yet the side effects list is a laundry list of things, some even possibly causing death or permanent physical damage to your body.
Quote: TranscendInterestingly enough, when Amsterdam legalized it I believe their usage was at about 23% of the population before legalization. The first couple of years, one to three, the usage spiked to about 25-27%. After that period though the usage dropped to about 20-21%, lower than when illegal. There may have been other factors involved such as other things becoming legal as well but, it mainly stemmed from the "illegal" aspect of it all.
That's what everyone says, but I'm not so quick to buy it. Plus, Amsterdam's population is less than 0.33% of the US population.
But like I said, we shall see what happens in CO.
Quote: Beethoven9thThat's what everyone says, but I'm not so quick to buy it. Plus, Amsterdam's population is less than 0.33% of the US population.
But like I said, we shall see what happens in CO.
True but it is the closest thing we have to go off of for any idea of what might happen
Quote: TranscendTrue but it is the closest thing we have to go off of for any idea of what might happen
I think there's a big difference between what Amsterdam experienced and what Colorado can expect in "spikage". We have a common language, and it takes nothing to cross state lines in America, so free influx of people nationwide who wish to partake. More importantly, America has a puritan double standard about what we do and how we act about illegal substances and social legislation, where Amsterdam has a cultural pragmatic outlook on behavioral issues. There's a whole new industry springing up in "pot vacations" or whatever they're calling them in Colorado, and the numbers are through the roof. There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people using pot for medicinal purposes, and acquiring it illegally where they live, who will seriously consider moving to a state where it's legal (several people I know already are); it's that important to their quality of life, and they are not happy with under-the-table transactions of dubious product. So I think it's going to spike way higher than expected and stay there until there's more nationally available states which permit it.
