Move To The Right...
Poll
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14 members have voted
It is my observation that fast lane folks who have to change lanes in order to pass a slower driver who refuses to yield, actually slow everybody behind them. The passing driver changing lanes causes a chain of brake lights as driver's behind have to re-adjust their following distances. Whenever there is this kind of unexpected slowing, there is the potential for an accident. Therefore, to me, the driver who refuses to move over is actually more dangerous than the driver who wants to go fast, because they are the cause of other drivers taking unnecessary risks. Do you agree?
Quote: AyecarumbaIf you are on the highway, and aren't going faster than the traffic in the lane to your right... move over and let folks pass. I don't care if you are already 15 over the posted speed limit; if you only want to go as fast as the traffic in the lane on your right, move over so others don't have to change lanes to pass you.
It is my observation that fast lane folks who have to change lanes in order to pass a slower driver who refuses to yield, actually slow everybody behind them. The passing driver changing lanes causes a chain of brake lights as driver's behind have to re-adjust their following distances. Whenever there is this kind of unexpected slowing, there is the potential for an accident. Therefore, to me, the driver who refuses to move over is actually more dangerous than the driver who wants to go fast, because they are the cause of other drivers taking unnecessary risks. Do you agree?
I completely agree. It's a pet peeve of mine. Makes me crazy when some self-righteous bugger in the left lane makes people pass on the right when they could move over. Or sits there parallel to another car, blocking anyone else from getting by either lane (traffic ' s not bumper to bumper, they just don't want to speed up OR slow down enough to get in line with the other car, so they run a rolling roadblock).
I'm more patient with it than a lot of people I see taking crazy chances and cutting other people off just to get around them. But it's still a pain.
I think of highway driving like a river. Go with the flow, no matter the speed. Don't be a rock the water has to find a way around. Accelerate during a pass, then settle back down. There's no cop who will ticket you for making a safe pass, even above the speed limit. They WILL ticket you in many states, though, for blocking the fast lane like that.
Yes, indeed. I don't see the comfort they have travelling in blind spots and loitering at what they feel is road speed but is not necessarily lane speed.Quote: Ayecarumbathe driver who refuses to move over is actually more dangerous than the driver who wants to go fast, because they are the cause of other drivers taking unnecessary risks. Do you agree?
Eons ago I had an acquaintance who was doing sixty five in the right lane of a California freeway and was pulled over and told, if you can't drive freeway speeds get off the freeway. Obviously laws in Los Angeles have changed since then, but the principle is the same.
Its the same thing with people who want to make a right turn but can't slow down in advance of it and move into that short right turn lane, they insist on braking in the right hand traffic lane and turning across the empty right hand turn lane. What do they think its there for?
It is indeed known as 'traffic flow' for a reason.
Right shoulder - where you sit when broken down.
Right lane - what caused you to break down.
Left lane - where driving happens.
However, I do do a lot of very long drives (12 plus hours) and when you are driving 700-900 miles, every MPH matters, so when you are trying to pass somebody and somebody just sits in the left lane at a non-passing speed it can mess up your predicted times. I try to be courteous and quickly move over to allow those at faster cruises to pass, so I do get irritated when others do not extend me the same courtesy. Really I only care if somebody just hogs the left lane for long periods of time and it messes up my cruise settings for long periods of time.... (in the south especially, people will just lane sit for long periods of time).
Quote: beachbumbabsI completely agree. It's a pet peeve of mine. Makes me crazy when some self-righteous bugger in the left lane makes people pass on the right when they could move over.
I like to make them pass me, and THEN move to the right.
Driverless cars will save *billions* of years annually in lost productivity (and probably hundreds of billions of dollars) if all they do is help alleviate rush hour traffic by speed-matching nearby vehicles and creating a smooth flow.
I've also read that late merging is more efficient system-wide than early merging. This is just another one of those topics where human intuition fails and mathematics is the better tool for the job.
Quote: MathExtremistI heard a recent radio story that driving 5mph slower than the average traffic speed causes worse congestion and many more accidents than driving 5mph faster, even though you'd instinctively think the opposite. "Speed Limit" always means the *upper* limit, even though it's perfectly reasonable to put a lower limit on traffic as well -- but who's ever gotten a "going too slow" ticket?
Driverless cars will save *billions* of years annually in lost productivity (and probably hundreds of billions of dollars) if all they do is help alleviate rush hour traffic by speed-matching nearby vehicles and creating a smooth flow.
I've also read that late merging is more efficient system-wide than early merging. This is just another one of those topics where human intuition fails and mathematics is the better tool for the job.
I heard that late-merging thing, too, and I'd have to see the study to believe it. It appears that the clods running to the head past those already formed in the merge is the reason the thru lane is slow/stopped. Logic says to me, that if they weren't impeding the bottleneck, there wouldn't be one, just a single line of cars (assuming 2 lanes merging to 1) going the construction speed limit. So, counterintuitive is the politest way of putting it.
I could be wrong. Which is why I'd like to see the study.
Quote: MathExtremistI heard a recent radio story that driving 5mph slower than the average traffic speed causes worse congestion and many more accidents than driving 5mph faster, even though you'd instinctively think the opposite. "Speed Limit" always means the *upper* limit, even though it's perfectly reasonable to put a lower limit on traffic as well -- but who's ever gotten a "going too slow" ticket?
The minimum in Missouri on an interstate is 40 MPH...I would hope a cop would give a ticket for this infraction in normal conditions. The minimum should be much higher though...probably 55 on a 70 max road. 40 MPH when everyone else is going between 60 and 80 is VERY dangerous.
Hell no do not agree and think your ideas are crazy. The main reason being safety cannot ignore the true speed you're traveling or not traveling. Someone should yield to YOU because YOU NEED MORE SPEED. No, they're keeping you in check if 80-85 is too slow. Build your own precious highway where only your life is in danger. If you think it is unsafe passing on the right, you should not do that.Quote: AyecarumbaIf you are on the highway, and aren't going faster than the traffic in the lane to your right... move over and let folks pass. I don't care if you are already 15 over the posted speed limit; if you only want to go as fast as the traffic in the lane on your right, move over so others don't have to change lanes to pass you.
It is my observation that fast lane folks who have to change lanes in order to pass a slower driver who refuses to yield, actually slow everybody behind them. The passing driver changing lanes causes a chain of brake lights as driver's behind have to re-adjust their following distances. Whenever there is this kind of unexpected slowing, there is the potential for an accident. Therefore, to me, the driver who refuses to move over is actually more dangerous than the driver who wants to go fast, because they are the cause of other drivers taking unnecessary risks. Do you agree?
It is a simple observation the right lane is unsafe with pothole frequently, so I will always avoid it. Plus aggrivating the worst drivers live there.
Quote: beachbumbabsI heard that late-merging thing, too, and I'd have to see the study to believe it. It appears that the clods running to the head past those already formed in the merge is the reason the thru lane is slow/stopped. Logic says to me, that if they weren't impeding the bottleneck, there wouldn't be one, just a single line of cars (assuming 2 lanes merging to 1) going the construction speed limit. So, counterintuitive is the politest way of putting it.
I could be wrong. Which is why I'd like to see the study.
I have seen signs saying use both lanes until merge point.In some states thats the preferred way,then you get some jackass that tries to block you from using the lane that is closing.
The study was mentioned in a book called Traffic,and it does say using both lanes is superior.
Quote: BlueEagleThis video was in my Facebook feed today. Interesting info
This is kind of a problem on the 15 to and from Socal to Vegas outside of Barstow. Most people driving 90 to Vegas just flash their high beams and the clueless soccer mom with Utah plates moves over.
I haven't had a ticket in over twenty years. Wanna know why? Because I'm not a little child anymore who has to put lead in his shoes. Here's a tip. Try to live to be MY age! You'll thank me someday.
What's the friggin hurry anyway?
Quote: bobbartopSo the a-holes who need to go 90 miles an hour end up getting off at the next exit anyway and save 15 seconds of their precious time.
I haven't had a ticket in over twenty years. Wanna know why? Because I'm not a little child anymore who has to put lead in his shoes. Here's a tip. Try to live to be MY age! You'll thank me someday.
What's the friggin hurry anyway?
They really don't save any time. They just get to be first to idle at the next red light. A friend who is a county Sherriff says the CHP is hiring like crazy right now. Very tempting. I get to pull over aholes AND steal their money. Sign me up.
Quote: beachbumbabsI heard that late-merging thing, too, and I'd have to see the study to believe it. It appears that the clods running to the head past those already formed in the merge is the reason the thru lane is slow/stopped. Logic says to me, that if they weren't impeding the bottleneck, there wouldn't be one, just a single line of cars (assuming 2 lanes merging to 1) going the construction speed limit. So, counterintuitive is the politest way of putting it.
I could be wrong. Which is why I'd like to see the study.
There is a phenomenon you are missing. For some reason, the line can move slow as molasses, but at the point where the line reaches the real merge, unpredictably perhaps, it often opens up at an accessible point right past the merge. The cars accelerate, and due to the nature of acceleration, holes open up that 'the clods' can easily slip into, having no effect whatsoever to the rest of the line.
When I lived in the DC area I would often try to take advantage of this. It was a gamble, the merge are might *not* offer these 'holes', in that case I became a clod or maybe took my lumps and moved on. But not until that moment; I didn't consider myself a clod if I could slip in. If I ran into the merge problem regularly, I needed to find out exactly what would be going on, it tended to always be the same.
There was one such rush hour merge I learned could be slipped into without fail. Since it was so reliable, I had to wonder why I saw so few take advantage. The only thing I could figure was it was a matter of etiquette. The regular commuters did not consider it polite? I dunno.
Quote: RSIf you're one of those a-holes that takes the shoulder to beat everyone in a merge....I will make sure you do not have a fun time doing it. Yeah there might be a gap between the car in front of me and my car....there's a reason for that, I'm not gonna tail gate someone (without reason). You slip in front of me, I gotta slow down -- the car that's trying to beat the merge and slip in behind me is then gonna hit me.
Ah. So you'll create a collision (or risk creating one, at least) because of that other guy's behavior. Yep, that'll show him! If you wreck both cars, you'll have the opportunity to give him a good tongue-lashing while you wait for the tow trucks. It's important to show all those other drivers that you WON'T BE PUSHED AROUND!!!!! TESTOSTERONE!!!!!!!
I wonder if we might have fewer traffic accidents if it weren't for those signs on the freeway that say "Protect Manhood, Next 20 Miles." They're invisible to me, but they must exist--how else would you explain Joe Accountant turning into the Hulk when he's behind the wheel?
Quote: JoeshlabotnikQuote: RSIf you're one of those a-holes that takes the shoulder to beat everyone in a merge....I will make sure you do not have a fun time doing it. Yeah there might be a gap between the car in front of me and my car....there's a reason for that, I'm not gonna tail gate someone (without reason). You slip in front of me, I gotta slow down -- the car that's trying to beat the merge and slip in behind me is then gonna hit me.
Ah. So you'll create a collision (or risk creating one, at least) because of that other guy's behavior. Yep, that'll show him! If you wreck both cars, you'll have the opportunity to give him a good tongue-lashing while you wait for the tow trucks. It's important to show all those other drivers that you WON'T BE PUSHED AROUND!!!!! TESTOSTERONE!!!!!!!
I wonder if we might have fewer traffic accidents if it weren't for those signs on the freeway that say "Protect Manhood, Next 20 Miles." They're invisible to me, but they must exist--how else would you explain Joe Accountant turning into the Hulk when he's behind the wheel?
IMO, the one creating the hazard is the line-jumper. Why is it the guy in line's fault when the merger, who does not have the right of way, pushes his nose in ahead of your bumper? If it's an equal merge, fine, but if you watched him come past 50 cars in the rear view, just to push in ahead of you, unless he's an emergency vehicle, he has no rights at all if you do. It's aggravating and rude.
http://arstechnica.com/cars/2014/07/the-beauty-of-zipper-merging-or-why-you-should-drive-ruder/
http://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/fhwahop12012/sec2.htm
http://trafficwaves.org/seatraf.html
Quote: RSIf you're one of those a-holes that takes the shoulder to beat everyone in a merge
just to be clear, not what I was doing, not the shoulder .... no
That may be true if you're at the merge point, but the highway is no place for you to lose control of your temper. And if you've got 1000 feet of empty highway in front of you because you decided to stop, put on your blinker, and merge into the bumper-to-bumper traffic, that's not the fault of the guy behind you, that's all you. Everyone behind you has to slam on their brakes and *that's* what causes accidents. Don't do this:Quote: beachbumbabsIMO, the one creating the hazard is the line-jumper. Why is it the guy in line's fault when the merger, who does not have the right if way, pushes his nose in ahead of your bumper? If it's an equal merge, fine, but if you watched him come past 50 cars in the rear view, just to push in ahead of you, unless he's an emergency vehicle, he has no rights at all if you do. It's aggravating and rude.
Do this instead:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/how-to-zip-through-summertime-road-construction-1.1340869
Quote: JoeshlabotnikThey're invisible to me, but they must exist--how else would you explain Joe Accountant turning into the Hulk when he's behind the wheel?
...or a computer/cell phone.
Quote: MathExtremistHere's some (counterintuitive) work on late-merging:
Missouri has also promoted this, but not very heavily. I tend to merge early and let one car zip in. I try to be patient and polite.
Quote: tringlomaneMissouri has also promoted this, but not very heavily. I tend to merge early and let one car zip in. I try to be patient and polite.
Good god, Tring could you be anymore Flanders? ;) Give that dickweed the horn and two fingers or one day you're gonna snap lol
Quote: MathExtremistThat may be true if you're at the merge point, but the highway is no place for you to lose control of your temper. And if you've got 1000 feet of empty highway in front of you because you decided to stop, put on your blinker, and merge into the bumper-to-bumper traffic, that's not the fault of the guy behind you, that's all you. Everyone behind you has to slam on their brakes and *that's* what causes accidents. Don't do this:
Do this instead:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/how-to-zip-through-summertime-road-construction-1.1340869
Those are great gifs, but in the zipper merge, watch just the thru lane traffic, not both. The 3rd car has to slow way down, and the 4th one (behind the white merger), comes.to a complete stop. I realize it's an illustration, but in the regular merge, all the cars stay moving, as they're already sorted. So what if the pavement stays empty? Everyone still has to fit the same bottleneck point.
A moving pilot is a happy pilot. Words to live by, if you're ATC. Or on the road with traffic. If you ever wonder why sometimes you get the scenic tour taxiing, btw, a lot of times it's the captain wanting to keep Butts in Seats. Lol...
Except that intuition has been demonstrated false by other studies. It's not equivalently efficient to merge late vs. early -- shortly after the merge point, traffic often opens up as there are no more worries about merging traffic. The problem is human reaction time leads to a cascading effect of brakes and an accordion of cars slowing down. Merging closer to the merge point leads to a merge at higher average speeds and therefore less braking (and congestion). Driverless cars or central coordination would take care of a lot of that, but for now we need to rely on ourselves.Quote: beachbumbabsThose are great gifs, but in the zipper merge, watch just the thru lane traffic, not both. The 3rd car has to slow way down, and the 4th one (behind the white merger), comes.to a complete stop. I realize it's an illustration, but in the regular merge, all the cars stay moving, as they're already sorted. So what if the pavement stays empty? Everyone still has to fit the same bottleneck point.
The real issue is that many people don't like "not having merged yet" -- when you have that anxious feeling because you're coming up to the end of the lane and you're not fully in a lane that won't disappear on you. If everyone could get over that anxiety -- and the related anger/jealousy when someone behind you passes to merge late while you're stopped trying to merge early -- we'd have a lot less congestion.
Quote: RogerKintGood god, Tring could you be anymore Flanders? ;) Give that dickweed the horn and two fingers or one day you're gonna snap lol
Flanders, that's a good one...lol
But I do let the bird fly now and again if people are accidents waiting to happen.
