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RS
RS
Joined: Feb 11, 2014
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July 15th, 2016 at 5:28:00 PM permalink
PGD, as always, you're full of it.

Say a casino has a coin flip game and pays 0.9:1 at 50/50 odds of occurrence. (House edge is 5%). By my AP skill or whatever, I can overcome the 50/50 and my results would be 51/49.

I'm still losing overall. But according to you, This is not gambling! because I have a little extra info. Lol.

It doesn't matter if I know nothing about the game or am 99% sure of the order of the cards or something. Certainty is 100%. Uncertainty is less than 100%.


Anyone can lookup odds on WoO or any other website. If you know the odds (basic strategy) and others don't, are you saying you aren't gambling, even though you play like a ploppy?? I know the odds when im playing blackjack (at least better than others). I'm not gambling because I know the odds? What the f....????
TomG
TomG
Joined: Sep 26, 2010
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July 15th, 2016 at 7:16:56 PM permalink
Quote: RS

It doesn't matter if I know nothing about the game or am 99% sure of the order of the cards or something. Certainty is 100%. Uncertainty is less than 100%.



Interesting point. Let's consider Dan's definition again:

Quote: Paigowdan

In other words, if you know the change in odds of the hand before the hand is dealt, it isn't gambling.



This would mean any progressive slot machine is not gambling as the odds change every spin
justme
justme
Joined: Jul 15, 2016
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July 15th, 2016 at 7:43:00 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

He was paid to do math work and game review and performance work, as it related to Sands table games and slots. No conspiracy here.



Always wondered if his opinion on 6/5 BJ might have be a cause for his departure. Corporate bastards plan their moves years ahead.
rxwine
rxwine
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July 15th, 2016 at 8:59:29 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

How can someone who lives on - and feeds off of - gambling halls and from gaming, criticize the source of their passion, their affectation?



Easy.

The casinos are taking advantage of mistakes of players every second of the day. The day they stop, let me know.

So, why are players not allowed to take advantage of casino mistakes? It's parity. You know what parity is? If you do, you realize you'll have no argument against it.

The fact that casinos try to make it illegal for people to play against their mistakes is actually immoral when they have little ethics in letting people lose as much as possible often with bad plays, and even encourage those people to return more often.

That's a pretty good argument, if I do say so myself.
Quasimodo? Does that name ring a bell?
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
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July 15th, 2016 at 9:35:47 PM permalink
Quote: RS

PGD, as always, you're full of it.


No.
I tell it like it is.
You play clean and the house likes you - you get to stay and play. Call yourself a ploppy, a master guru, a Ho Chi Min Zen master, it just doesn't matter.

They like you and your play - you get to stay and play. Because you were gambling.

They think your play is B.S., and out you go....basically, the CASINO tells you your play is full of it, and out you go. THEY think you're full of it. Because you were NOT really gambling, - which is why you are expelled from, of all things - a GAMBLING HALL.


So....RS - That is the determination of "Full Of It" casino play. You're backed off, or at the bus stop on the Frigging Street. I don't see what my words on a forum have to do it, aside from telling you how this crap works if you can see it.
You don't need me and my opinion for this.


Quote: RS

Say a casino has a coin flip game and pays 0.9:1 at 50/50 odds of occurrence. (House edge is 5%). By my AP skill or whatever, I can overcome the 50/50 and my results would be 51/49.

I'm still losing overall. But according to you, This is not gambling! because I have a little extra info. Lol.

It doesn't matter if I know nothing about the game or am 99% sure of the order of the cards or something. Certainty is 100%. Uncertainty is less than 100%.


Okay.
How about this:
Say a casino has a coin flip game and pays 0.9:1 at 50/50 odds of occurrence. (House edge is 5%). By your AP skill or whatever, I can overcome the 50/50 and my results would be 51/49.

Then they say "Your play is just too wonderful and awesome for us, Jack. So hit the road, Jack, - and don't you come back, no more, no more, no more, no more..."

OR....

Then they say, "Your play is just fine with us. Congratulations on your excellent winnings. Let us give you a $200 comp to our excellent steakhouse. Jack. Love having you around."

The former scenario say you're not gambling. The later scenario does.

Quote: RS

Anyone can lookup odds on WoO or any other website. If you know the odds (basic strategy) and others don't, are you saying you aren't gambling, even though you play like a ploppy?? I know the odds when im playing blackjack (at least better than others). I'm not gambling because I know the odds? What the f....????



The casino will let you know whether or not you are gambling okay.
Then they say "Your play is just too wonderful and awesome for us, Jack. So hit the road, Jack, - and don't you come back, no more, no more, no more, no more..."
And you say "What the f....????"

OR....

Then they say, "Your play is just fine with us. Let us give you a $200 comp to our excellent steakhouse. Jack. Love having you around."

The former scenario say you're not gambling. The later scenario does.
Last edited by: Paigowdan on Jul 15, 2016
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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July 15th, 2016 at 11:58:17 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

No.
I tell it like it is.
You play clean and the house likes you - you get to stay and play. Call yourself a ploppy, a master guru, a Ho Chi Min Zen master, it just doesn't matter.

They like you and your play - you get to stay and play. Because you were gambling.

They think your play is B.S., and out you go....basically, the CASINO tells you your play is full of it, and out you go. THEY think you're full of it. Because you were NOT really gambling, - which is why you are expelled from, of all things - a GAMBLING HALL.


So....RS - That is the determination of "Full Of It" casino play. You're backed off, or at the bus stop on the Frigging Street. I don't see what my words on a forum have to do it, aside from telling you how this crap works if you can see it.
You don't need me and my opinion for this.


Quote: RS

Say a casino has a coin flip game and pays 0.9:1 at 50/50 odds of occurrence. (House edge is 5%). By my AP skill or whatever, I can overcome the 50/50 and my results would be 51/49.

I'm still losing overall. But according to you, This is not gambling! because I have a little extra info. Lol.

It doesn't matter if I know nothing about the game or am 99% sure of the order of the cards or something. Certainty is 100%. Uncertainty is less than 100%.


Okay.
How about this:
Say a casino has a coin flip game and pays 0.9:1 at 50/50 odds of occurrence. (House edge is 5%). By your AP skill or whatever, I can overcome the 50/50 and my results would be 51/49.

Then they say "Your play is just too wonderful and awesome for us, Jack. So hit the road, Jack, - and don't you come back, no more, no more, no more, no more..."

OR....

Then they say, "Your play is just fine with us. Congratulations on your excellent winnings. Let us give you a $200 comp to our excellent steakhouse. Jack. Love having you around."

The former scenario say you're not gambling. The later scenario does.

Quote: RS

Anyone can lookup odds on WoO or any other website. If you know the odds (basic strategy) and others don't, are you saying you aren't gambling, even though you play like a ploppy?? I know the odds when im playing blackjack (at least better than others). I'm not gambling because I know the odds? What the f....????



The casino will let you know whether or not you are gambling okay.
Then they say "Your play is just too wonderful and awesome for us, Jack. So hit the road, Jack, - and don't you come back, no more, no more, no more, no more..."
And you say "What the f....????"

OR....

Then they say, "Your play is just fine with us. Let us give you a $200 comp to our excellent steakhouse. Jack. Love having you around."

The former scenario say you're not gambling. The later scenario does.

I have no Idea what you are going on about.

Everyone knows that the casinos can ask you to stop GAMBLING and ask you to leave.


That has nothing to do with if AP is gambling or not. It is gambling it's just not gambling how most of the casinos would like. FYI some casinos don't seem to mind advantage players as long as they are not cheating. There's been many occasions they knew exactly what's going on and who the advantage players are. I seem to remember a situation of a pit boss telling a counter he could count and play the shoe game all he wanted.

I have seen an heard about situations where the casino get greedy and have big dollar signs in their eyes, only to regret it big time later. If they were not so greedy they wouldn't have been hit. In cases where people like Don Johnson and Phil Ivey, it was the casinos greed that allowed them to get hit.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
cwazy
cwazy
Joined: Mar 18, 2016
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July 16th, 2016 at 12:26:27 AM permalink
Quote: MrV

The Wiz worked for the Sands / Venetian for a bit a few years ago.



If I recall correctly, he said that his separation from Sheldon was acrimonious at best, and that he might speak about it at some point in the future (presumably an NDA was in place, that may have expired by now). If the Wiz sees this...can you explain what happened now?

As for the rest of this thread, it's ridiculous. The outcome of any given trial in a game of chance is uncertain, and is therefore gambling - regardless of who has the edge. I lost ~$20K playing a game where I had a significant mathematical edge a few months ago. Why? Because even though I had long-term edge, I was gambling and things didn't go my way.
Last edited by: cwazy on Jul 16, 2016
RS
RS
Joined: Feb 11, 2014
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July 16th, 2016 at 3:34:55 AM permalink
PaiGowDan thinks the casino defines gambling.

A card counter and ploppy are given the same information, one just keeps track of it better than the other. Apparently knowing the counter is not gambling.

A casual (non-ploppy) player may know the odds and basic strategy. A ploppy does not. The casual player is therefore not gambling because he knows odds that the ploppy doesn't know.....even though the casual player is playing at a disadvantage.


Yup, this makes a whole hell of a lot of sense.
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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July 16th, 2016 at 3:57:24 AM permalink
Yea, PaiGowDan has now gone further into the land of star trek than even I could have expected.

So, according to him, casinos decide the definition of words in the English language and that is based on their decision of whether they like your play or not.

It is this very thinking that causes most casinos to wind up with lawsuits. The belief that they have autonomy in making decision (for example about the law and how it affects them) and can do whatever they want.

BTW Dan - I believe the worldwide idiom of most business is "the customer is always right". You seem to have flipped it by now spouting that the "business owner (casino) is always right" and whatever they decide, "Hm, that gambler is winning by counting so not only do we want him to leave but we are going to redefine the word gambling as well" is the final word.

Dan, no matter what you say, the law, Bob Nersesian, countless lawsuits and AP's continue to prove that the casino is most often wrong in their operations as a business and in their treatment of AP's.

But continue on your misguided crusade (BTW, you always say AP's have a misguided crusade but everyone is responding to your nonsense now because it is clearly you who have an agenda) that casinos somehow are smarter, better and more correct in their thinking than their customers.

AND now I think about it, I understand your wish (NEED) to redefine gambling. You see, the customer is always right and you so desperately need to prove that AP's are not gambling because in your mind, if we are not gambling, then we are not customers and therefore cannot be right. The casino offers gambling and if we can be defined as people who do not gamble, then suddenly in your mind the casino has the right to ask a non-(paying) customer to leave. I get it. But no, sorry, the casinos do not once again get to redefine the English language nor the law no matter how much they wish they could.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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July 16th, 2016 at 4:05:54 AM permalink
Quote: RS

PaiGowDan thinks the casino defines gambling.

A card counter and ploppy are given the same information, one just keeps track of it better than the other. Apparently knowing the counter is not gambling.

A casual (non-ploppy) player may know the odds and basic strategy. A ploppy does not. The casual player is therefore not gambling because he knows odds that the ploppy doesn't know.....even though the casual player is playing at a disadvantage.


Yup, this makes a whole hell of a lot of sense.



No, it has suddenly made perfect sense to me.

Dan has repeatedly stated that HE is a service fee for players that they MUST fork over. And since customers are always right by the worldwide standards of business he must find some way of making AP's not be customers. By stating that we are not gambling, we are no longer paying customers in his mind and of course, non-paying customers may be asked to leave an establishment.

The fact that this logic requires an equally ridiculous logic twist that the casino defines words in the English language is of no import to him.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee

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