Are some members paid to be on the WOV forums?
Poll
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| | 13 votes (48.14%) | ||
| | 9 votes (33.33%) |
27 members have voted
Quote: Paigowdan
Followed by essentially two by-name mentions/invites, and an big opening to a discussion on the gaming industry...
What you left out of this response was that I specifically posted that my original post was not referring to PaiGowDan and instead suggested the name of another forum member. Despite that, you subsequently jumped onto this thread and went into hyper mode, writing thousands of words on an off-topic subject and responding to every post that differed with you.
Do you thrive on the conflict? Do you just enjoy the experience of being in a passionate argument?
And If you feel strongly that the WOV forum paints a too-rosy picture of being an AP, can you suggest a chat forum where all of the APs can go to have the conversations that they want without you fighting us on every post?
It has been a long time since 2F set out to intentionally bait another poster on these forums, but I'm tempted.Quote: beachbumbabsOh, for heaven's sake. Will you stop trying to police people's posts, please? We don't censor or delete for having a conversation, usually don't delete regardless. They're not far enough off topic to be considered hijacking the thread, or splitting it. It's a conversation. Surveillance is weighing in on the OP. Block 2F if he annoys you.
I will try to be a good boy, this has always been a challenge for me ;-)
Quote: gordonm888What you left out of this response was that I specifically posted that my original post was not referring to PaiGowDan and instead suggested the name of another forum member. Despite that, you subsequently jumped onto this thread and went into hyper mode, writing thousands of words on an off-topic subject and responding to every post that differed with you.
1. I received multiple by-name mentions prior to joining.
2. As a member of this forum, I mistakenly thought I was allowed to participate.
3. My posts presented some pretty plain arguments without any personal attacks.
Quote: gordon888Do you thrive on the conflict?
No.
Quote: gorfon888Do you just enjoy the experience of being in a passionate argument?
I enjoy debating and discussing things.
Quote: gordon888And If you feel strongly that the WOV forum paints a too-rosy picture of being an AP, can you suggest a chat forum where all of the APs can go to have the conversations that they want without you fighting us on every post?
There are plenty of sites dedicated solely to AP discussion and back-slapping, advising that it is the thing to do at a casino. Many members are on multiple forums. You can google this, I won't make any recommendations.
Yes Sammy, you should give up, as you say.Quote: sammydvWell. looking at where this is going, I give up. We'll never stick to the OP question because I think people just thought it was a silly question and decided to turn it into "lets wrangle with Dan" thread and funny stories.
Have fun with it.
Though I have no doubt that Gordon posed a serious question, at least a serious question to him, the response from the Forum was rather predictable. You seem to have a problem with the responses, that's OK too. Your addition to the discussion was...well it was your contribution. Maybe you earned some 'contributor points'. It is fairly easy to block my contributions to any and all threads. That works both ways, two way street if you will. I'm still laughing at Boz's comment on you investing in some penny stock. You cannot prevent me from laughing ;-)
Quote: SanchoPanzaIf the income is gained through violating the rules, then it is income "against the rules."
Don't know the rules? That is another problem. You will most likely be informed of them soon enough.
This sounds awfully close to the absurd claims Paigowdon makes. I made an offer to him to test his claims using the criteria he talked about. Obviously he ignored it, but I'll extend the offer to you if you think there is any casino in Las Vegas that has the same opinion of what's against the rules as Dan does
Quote: TomGThis sounds awfully close to the absurd claims Paigowdon makes. I made an offer to him to test his claims using the criteria he talked about. Obviously he ignored it, but I'll extend the offer to you if you think there is any casino in Las Vegas that has the same opinion of what's against the rules as Dan does
What SanchoPanza said was very clear and true: if income is gained through violating the rules, then it is income "against the rules."
And the proof in this is also very clear: the casino flat-bets you or backs you off, and they are allowed to do this, and they do do this. They apparently have the same opinions of what's against the rules that I do, every time they do this.
I think it is the casino operators who test and verify these claims in the real world, and I and others pointed it out. We didn't ignore it.
Quote: Paigowdan...And the proof in this is also very clear: the casino flat-bets you or backs you off, and they are allowed to do this, and they do do this...
Not for much longer buddy.
Quote: Paigowdan1. I received multiple by-name mentions prior to joining.
2. As a member of this forum, I mistakenly thought I was allowed to participate.
Of course you are allowed to participate, and there is no prohibition in the Terms & Conditions about veering off the topic of thread. I note that I have not made an issue about the so-called allowability of your behavior. However, in a social medium like WOV, posting off-topic comments in a thread can be considered to be socially objectionable by other forum members especially if it is done repeatedly and/or if the new direction of the thread is a debate that has been utterly exhausted in several prior threads.
I realize that some people genuinely don't care whether their behavior is rude or socially objectionable and you may (or may not) be one of them. The consequence of socially objectionable behavior is some amount of social shunning by the other forum members - people may ignore your posts a bit more than normal or close their minds to whatever arguments you post on any topic. Ultimately, however, many people come to feel that it is not a lot of fun to hang around in a forum in which you are shunned and disliked by many of the regulars. That's how social systems work. Its certainly not 100% effective and throughout history some people have always enjoyed being socially-objectionable and shunned. That's just the way the world is, I guess.
So, it is not a question of whether your behavior was allowed - it is, in my mind, a question of whether it was socially acceptable and constructive. I don't think it was.
Quote: PaigowdanAnd the proof in this is also very clear: the casino flat-bets you or backs you off, and they are allowed to do this, and they do do this. They apparently have the same opinions of what's against the rules that I do, every time they do this.
Once again, every time they don't do it, it is proving such income is within the rules. And once again, flat-betting and backoffs are very rare. If you disagree the offer still stands to find any casino in Las Vegas you choose and I'll violate these so-called rules and they will take not take they actions you say they do.
Quote: TomGOnce again, every time they don't do it, it is proving such income is within the rules. And once again, flat-betting and backoffs are very rare. If you disagree the offer still stands to find any casino in Las Vegas you choose and I'll violate these so-called rules and they will take not take they actions you say they do.
All right, you're on:
1. We'll bet $2,000 that you will get backed off card counting before you have $2,000 over your buy-in from card counting. If you win, you'll have $2,000 from card counting and $2,000 from me, winning the bet.
2. The casino is the El Cortez.
I have to see this.
Quote: gordonm888Of course you are allowed to participate, and there is no prohibition in the Terms & Conditions about veering off the topic of thread. I note that I have not made an issue about the so-called allowability of your behavior. However, in a social medium like WOV, posting off-topic comments in a thread can be considered to be socially objectionable by other forum members especially if it is done repeatedly and/or if the new direction of the thread is a debate that has been utterly exhausted in several prior threads.
Gordon, your question of industry shills was answered straight away, and it was also voted on. Debates and arguments included shills, the gaming industry's interest here, AP's interest here (all relevant), - with a mild off-topic surveillance, and the Swedish Volleyball Team in Bikinis being scoped by the sky as the objected-to off-topic post, which I did not find objectionable, but humorous.
Quote: gordon888I realize that some people genuinely don't care whether their behavior is rude or socially objectionable and you may (or may not) be one of them. The consequence of socially objectionable behavior is some amount of social shunning by the other forum members - people may ignore your posts a bit more than normal or close their minds to whatever arguments you post on any topic. Ultimately, however, many people come to feel that it is not a lot of fun to hang around in a forum in which you are shunned and disliked by many of the regulars. That's how social systems work. Its certainly not 100% effective and throughout history some people have always enjoyed being socially-objectionable and shunned. That's just the way the world is, I guess.
Here at the forum, we debated, argued and presented points for and against.
You feel that I am rude and socially objectionable because I presented tough arguments that you disagree with, and took it as a rude and socially objectionable affront for that reason, I believe. Welcome to the world of Internet forums.
Quote: gordon888So, it is not a question of whether your behavior was allowed - it is, in my mind, a question of whether it was socially acceptable and constructive. I don't think it was.
I think it's because you disagree with my POV.
Quote: PaigowdanAll right, you're on:
1. We'll bet $2,000 that you will get backed off card counting before you have $2,000 over your buy-in from card counting. If you win, you'll have $2,000 from card counting and $2,000 from me, winning the bet.
2. The casino is the El Cortez.
I have to see this.
By my estimation it would take four 40 hour weeks to earn $2,000 in EV using the criteria you brought up. So I guess we've come to an tentative agreement: Earning money at one place for that long is against the rules. What is allowed is to rotate between the more than 50 profitable blackjack games in the valley (with a few dozen more in Laughlin, Primm, Mesquite). Doing that will earn higher a much higher rate of profit and won't result in any backoffs. Including El Cortez. Add in other things like machines, sports, and promotions and that $2,000 of EV in four weeks is being reaching in one week by some with backoffs coming very rarely (and as likely to come from machines than cards).
If we could instead use the criteria I want (something with a much better hourly rate than a $20 to $100 spread), I'll take your bet of winning $2,000 by spreading with the count before a backoff at El Cortez. Only condition is that if I go bust we call the bet a push as I wouldn't be able to keep playing. Can do this Wednesday or Thursday morning, if not Sunday afternoon.
Quote: TomGBy my estimation it would take four 40 hour weeks to earn $2,000 in EV using the criteria you brought up. So I guess we've come to an tentative agreement: Earning money at one place for that long is against the rules. What is allowed is to rotate between the more than 50 profitable blackjack games in the valley (with a few dozen more in Laughlin, Primm, Mesquite). Doing that will earn higher a much higher rate of profit and won't result in any backoffs. Including El Cortez. Add in other things like machines, sports, and promotions and that $2,000 of EV in four weeks is being reaching in one week by some with backoffs coming very rarely (and as likely to come from machines than cards).
If we could instead use the criteria I want (something with a much better hourly rate than a $20 to $100 spread), I'll take your bet of winning $2,000 by spreading with the count before a backoff at El Cortez. Only condition is that if I go bust we call the bet a push as I wouldn't be able to keep playing. Can do this Wednesday or Thursday morning, if not Sunday afternoon.
New criteria enter.
You said "Pick a casino."
Ley's make it easier. All $500 figures.
Buy in for $500, double that in one session without the casino taking action on you, and I'll match your $500 profit by paying you $500. Such a deal !!!
Go bust, the bet is forgiven.
The El Cortez.
Spending a month to make $2,000, I can say you can fly under the radar. It's like saying "I bet I can speed on the highway, and get away with breaking the rules!" by going 66 or 67 in a 65 mph zone.
This week is bad (I got a few jobs; game demos, documentation and stuff), but next week or the first week in July is good.
Quote: sammydvWill you PLEASE STOP highjacking threads, just take it to another board please.
I see that he answered and completely went off topic. Just move them to a 2f gadfly board or something. Or surveillance or whatever. Surveillance is a fascinating topic that SHOULD have it's own board.
Mods, please just plain and simple remove the next whatever posts from 2f and dodson instead of letting them continue.
That's part of the problem on this site, there is no off topic report link or any way to self monitor this crap.
It doesn't matter if the on topic posts have slowed down, not everyone sees everything every day to respond.
On to the real questions: sammydv do you like cats?
Quote: PaigowdanNew criteria enter.
You said "Pick a casino."
Ley's make it easier. All $500 figures.
Buy in for $500, double that in one session without the casino taking action on you, and I'll match your $500 profit by paying you $500. Such a deal !!!
Go bust, the bet is forgiven.
The El Cortez.
Sounds good. Does Thursday late morning work?
Just for information, is El Cortez the only casino where you believe this is not allowed, or are most of them like this too? Even with the sweatiest place in the city, still have to think this is a great bet, close to a $500 match play.
Quote: TomGSounds good. Does Thursday late morning work?
Just for information, is El Cortez the only casino where you believe this is not allowed, or are most of them like this too? Even with the sweatiest place in the city, still have to think this is a great bet, close to a $500 match play.
Yeah, a match play is a good way to look at it. I think any 3:2 pitch or shoe game gets watched seeing a spread.
1. Gotta play 40-minutes plus on a 3:2 game.
2. Gotta make the win trigger ($500?) for the match
3. Go bust, forgiven the bet, make less, or invoke a casino action against your card counting wiles = loss.
Thursday mornings good, 7/28 or 8/4.
perhaps Mike can ref it.
Quote: PaigowdanYeah, a match play is a good way to look at it. I think any 3:2 pitch or shoe game gets watched seeing a spread.
1. Gotta play 40-minutes plus on a 3:2 game.
2. Gotta make the win trigger ($500?) for the match
3. Go bust, forgiven the bet, make less, or invoke a casino action against your card counting wiles = loss.
Thursday mornings good, 7/28 or 8/4.
perhaps Mike can ref it.
Should be either based on time or win amount, but not require both. If using both, then don't have to finish up $500, only have to be up at least $500 at any point during the 40 minutes. If $500 hasn't been won within that time I can keep going or stop and call it a push. (40 minutes at El Cortez without a backoff is pretty strong evidence that even 40 hours per week is attainable when spread out everywhere).
Going away after this week. Would have to happen before the 25th or wait until the end of August
Quote: TomGShould be either based on time or win amount, but not require both.
It kind of has to, otherwise you can flat bet for 40 minutes and say, "you see!"
Gotta play and win using CC, with no anti-counting action taken against you by the house.
Quote: TomGIf using both, then don't have to finish up $500, only have to be up at least $500 at any point during the 40 minutes. If $500 hasn't been won within that time I can keep going or stop and call it a push.
No, if the target amount wasn't won, or you get heat, you lose.
If you go bust, you can't play, but bust out, get forgiven. Clearly not a card-counting success, but we got to account kindly for that.
Quote: TomG(40 minutes at El Cortez without a backoff is pretty strong evidence that even 40 hours per week is attainable when spread out everywhere).
40 minutes at the El Cortez with a spread but without back off is a miracle.
We may have to pick another place to make it more fair; the EC is atypically rough. PM me and we'll decide a secret joint in Vegas.
Quote: TomGGoing away after this week. Would have to happen before the 25th or wait until the end of August
End of August then. Gives time to plan the most fair and balanced place, the conditions, get a third-party ref, etc.
Quote: PaigowdanIt kind of has to, otherwise you can flat bet for 40 minutes and say, "you see!"
Gotta play and win using CC, with no anti-counting action taken against you by the house.
No, if the target amount wasn't won, or you get heat, you lose.
If you go bust, you can't play, but bust out, get forgiven. Clearly not a card-counting success, but we got to account kindly for that.
40 minutes at the El Cortez with a spread but without back off is a miracle.
We may have to pick another place to make it more fair; the EC is atypically rough. PM me and we'll decide a secret joint in Vegas.
End of August then. Gives time to plan the most fair and balanced place, the conditions, get a third-party ref, etc.
Spreading 5-30 would be fine at El Cortez. Especially, for only 40 minutes.
Quote: beachbumbabsOh, for heaven's sake. Will you stop trying to police people's posts, please? We don't censor or delete for having a conversation, usually don't delete regardless. They're not far enough off topic to be considered hijacking the thread, or splitting it. It's a conversation. Surveillance is weighing in on the OP. Block 2F if he annoys you.
Right. I'm not policing threads, I'm asking a serial highjacker to please stop coming on any thread he wants and start talking about other crap. Dodson's comments were closer to the subject, but not really. 2f WAS far far off subject as usual and cause the thread again to break off. Sorry if you don't agree.
I noticed this website doesn't seem to have any way of reporting conduct like that without causing a stir or having some admin weigh in. I wouldn't have made any public comment had I had some other recourse.
Quote: TwoFeathersATLYes Sammy, you should give up, as you say.
Though I have no doubt that Gordon posed a serious question, at least a serious question to him, the response from the Forum was rather predictable. You seem to have a problem with the responses, that's OK too. Your addition to the discussion was...well it was your contribution. Maybe you earned some 'contributor points'. It is fairly easy to block my contributions to any and all threads. That works both ways, two way street if you will. I'm still laughing at Boz's comment on you investing in some penny stock. You cannot prevent me from laughing ;-)
personal attack #3.
And yes that will be a good idea.
Boz personally attacked you, that was #1
WoN personally attacked you, that was #2
Silly Feathers personally attacked you, that was #3
You should be glad your not at bat in a baseball game ;-)
Quote: IbeatyouracesI'm sure guys like Dan, Dods, Zcore, Eliot, etc., find much helpful info whether it's AP stuff or not.
I've gotter some helpful info before and I'm sure I've helped some, but mostly just entertainment here for me.
I've used WoO, APHeat, Elliot's book and Discount Gambling, when it was active, more for work related stuff.
ZCore13
Thanks.
Quote: sammydvHey Z. Off topic for a sec, but can people know when they are blocked by you so you don't see their posts?
Thanks.
Not sure what you are talking about. I don't have anyone blocked. I guess if I do I can notify them by certied mail or something. I'll think about it.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13Not sure what you are talking about. I don't have anyone blocked. I guess if I do I can notify them by certied mail or something. I'll think about it.
ZCore13
Okay thanks. I can't find the forum info regarding forum proceedings and such. Probably here somewhere.
Sometimes you are informed you can't pm or post to a member or something like that.
To your other question, no, there isn't a stand alone button to request a mod or mod help. Requests can be made in-thread, or if you desire privacy, a private message must be sent to an individual mod directly.
Quote: FaceI don't believe there is any notification to the blocked party, only their posts will be hidden to you similar to a spoiler tag. I also believe it will prevent them from PMing you. Please note that I am almost wholly unfamiliar with it; this is just what I've picked up from other members.
To your other question, no, there isn't a stand alone button to request a mod or mod help. Requests can be made in-thread, or if you desire privacy, a private message must be sent to an individual mod directly.
Additionally, If you look at your own profile, you have some control over accepting PM's, displaying whether you're currently online, blocking and unblocking threads or members, that sort of thing. Everybody else has those, too, and their settings are known only to them.
:D
I will send SammyDv $10 if he will just leave this thread ;-)Quote: DodsferdOkay guys, we're getting way too off topic here. Let's not offend anyone with this outrageous conversation!
:D
Quote: DodsferdOkay guys, we're getting way too off topic here. Let's not offend anyone with this outrageous conversation!:D
So, what's your opinion about paid defenders and shills of the casinos spending time on public forums?
Define "paid defender" -- do you mean "someone who's paid to defend the industry on public forums" or "someone who is paid by the industry and, unrelated to their job, defends it on public forums?"Quote: sammydvQuote: DodsferdOkay guys, we're getting way too off topic here. Let's not offend anyone with this outrageous conversation!:D
So, what's your opinion about paid defenders and shills of the casinos spending time on public forums?
I'm the latter, not the former. I make my living in the industry and have no problem defending it where appropriate. But I don't think anyone here is the former -- specifically a paid spokesperson of some sort. I could be wrong, but the folks from lobbying groups like the AGA don't tend to hang out in anonymous Internet forums where their message isn't received by people who know who's sending it.
Quote: sammydvQuote: DodsferdOkay guys, we're getting way too off topic here. Let's not offend anyone with this outrageous conversation!:D
So, what's your opinion about paid defenders and shills of the casinos spending time on public forums?
I don't think there are any. The industry doesn't need to pay chat room members to get others to gamble, nor do they worry what chat room members think, they just need to offer gambling. The only people they need to pay are lobbyists to get it allowed.
If they want to improve or promote their image, they'd spend the money on PR commercials elsewhere.
Quote: sammydvDodsferd?
What about Dodsferd? He's a surveillance guy and a valued member. So are several others. We also have several dealers, many game creators and mathematicians, and at least one TGM. It all goes to the value of this forum, with a mix of talents and skills.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13I guarantee there are no casino Staff or related positions paid to be here or any other forum.
ZCore13
Yeah, they're here on their own free will.
Quote: IbeatyouracesYeah, they're here on their own free will.
Some. But I would say 90% of all Table Games management (Pit Bosses and above) have no idea this forum even exists.
I've met 2 in my career I think.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13Some. But I would say 90% of all Table Games management (Pit Bosses and above) have no idea this forum even exists.
I've met 2 in my career I think.
ZCore13
Basically, my point was that the casino employees that are here like you, are here because they want to be. Not because their employers want them here.
Quote: FaceTo your other question, no, there isn't a stand alone button to request a mod or mod help. Requests can be made in-thread, or if you desire privacy, a private message must be sent to an individual mod directly.
Whoa, just noticed the "flag" button is gone. Was that feature removed or limited to only some members?
Quote: beachbumbabsWhat about Dodsferd? He's a surveillance guy and a valued member. So are several others. We also have several dealers, many game creators and mathematicians, and at least one TGM. It all goes to the value of this forum, with a mix of talents and skills.
Thank you. But I was asking for Dodsferd's on topic opinion as he made the point we were off topic.
Which it was.
I don't believe reading any one say Dodsferd was not a valued member. I know I didn't.
Quote: sammydvThank you. But I was asking for Dodsferd's on topic opinion as he made the point we were off topic.
Which it was.
I don't believe reading any one say Dodsferd was not a valued member. I know I didn't.
The problem with multiple aspects of conversations being discussed.
The original topic was are there people on here paid by casinos to monitor or post and since Dodsferd works surveillance in a casino, I think Babs assumed you were pointing a finger accusing him of possibly being one of these paid employee/spies for the casinos.
Quote: darkozThe problem with multiple aspects of conversations being discussed.
The original topic was are there people on here paid by casinos to monitor or post and since Dodsferd works surveillance in a casino, I think Babs assumed you were pointing a finger accusing him of possibly being one of these paid employee/spies for the casinos.
No, not at all. I didn't even know who or what a dodsferd was. She/he was correct the thread was off topic and I was interested in hearing another voice, or more correctly, reading another view.
Thank you for the clarification of an incorrect assumption. This is kind of an odd forum site as I don't think I've seen an administration by and large openly actively defending regular members on an ongoing basis. Perhaps because this is a smaller community and closer knit.
Quote: sammydvDodsferd?
Hi! Sorry for the delay. As was stated by BBB, I do indeed work in Surveillance. As it happens to be, I'm also abroad on behalf of the company. My trip ended this morning, and I am flying back to Canada tomorrow.
Your question, if I may;
As was also pointed out, it seemed to insinuate the existence of paid advocates for casinos being present on boards such as this. If that is the meaning to your question, I can't provide evidence of it, as I - myself, am not one who belongs to this category.
In terms of people who are employed and visit these places, I AM one of those folks. My role in surveillance is to ensure protection of assets, and reduction of liability and risk to the casino.
My moral code along with my job duties, push me to seek out resolution.
Without ranting on further, I do what I can to provide what insight I have based on my relevant experience. If I can, in any way, provide assistance or clarity regarding any topics I am familiar with, I do my best.
If this answers your question, I'm glad. If not, I do apologize.
Quote: DodsferdHi! Sorry for the delay. As was stated by BBB, I do indeed work in Surveillance. As it happens to be, I'm also abroad on behalf of the company. My trip ended this morning, and I am flying back to Canada tomorrow.
Your question, if I may;
As was also pointed out, it seemed to insinuate the existence of paid advocates for casinos being present on boards such as this. If that is the meaning to your question, I can't provide evidence of it, as I - myself, am not one who belongs to this category.
In terms of people who are employed and visit these places, I AM one of those folks. My role in surveillance is to ensure protection of assets, and reduction of liability and risk to the casino.
My moral code along with my job duties, push me to seek out resolution.
Without ranting on further, I do what I can to provide what insight I have based on my relevant experience. If I can, in any way, provide assistance or clarity regarding any topics I am familiar with, I do my best.
If this answers your question, I'm glad. If not, I do apologize.
Absolutely no need to apologize. And there is no insinuation about casino personal, the question was flat out asked if there were paid or any kind of casino personal working forum boards. It's one of those questions that begs to be answered, but probably never can be fully answered for many many reasons. But it's a very interesting question to ponder.
Thank you. And that sounds like a fun job. Or at the very least really fascinating.
gl.
I've been in the business for a very long time, and I can't imagine it would ever be cost effective to actually pay someone to "work" a forum board in the way you're describing. It's just a business decision -- what revenue would be gained by doing so that would outweigh the cost of paying that person?Quote: sammydvAbsolutely no need to apologize. And there is no insinuation about casino personal, the question was flat out asked if there were paid or any kind of casino personal working forum boards. It's one of those questions that begs to be answered, but probably never can be fully answered for many many reasons.
That's not to say casino heat or security or even marketing doesn't have an eye out watching, but the sense most people have that it is an all-powerful Sauron-like eye is not true.
T.V. shows like Las Vegas perpetuate this myth (I remember one episode where they used thermal heat sensors in their cameras to detect someone was packing a gun) and this thread pretty much is another example of people (AP) paranoia.
I can see a host hanging around a slot forum, that's actually smart, he might be able to pick up some good customers.Quote: onenickelmiracleI remember on the slot forums, there would be industry employees paid by their respective companies, and they never really showed up and ignored most of the directed posts. There was a host that was pretty good, from Caesars, responding to people. I don't think he was specifically paid to be there. The main thing I remember him saying was he liked players who played a lot and didn't expect much from him-shocking.
