Here We Go Again

When I was in high school, no one, and I mean no one, would have defied a teacher and refused to stop doing something disruptive or against the rules. And I can't recall one instance where a child brought a knife or gun to school, let alone attacked others in this way.

We're so open-minded and progressive with our thinking today. Let's do everything to not use force to discipline our young. Pure rubbish.

Kids need boundaries and force. Force is what they listen too. Talk, talk, talk. Kids will engage you all day and match wits with you.

Yes, communication has its place. Reasoning with recalcitrant, wayward kids is important. So is force.

How did they clean up Dodge City in the 1870s, or New York City in the late 1980s and '90s? Force.

Dozens of kids from the school have shown support for officer Fields. I'm glad to hear this.

Quote: Greasyjohn

When I was in high school, no one, and I mean no one, would have defied a teacher and refused to stop doing something disruptive or against the rules. And I can't recall one instance where a child brought a knife or gun to school, let alone attacked others in this way.

We're so open-minded and progressive with our thinking today. Let's do everything to not use force to discipline our young. Pure rubbish.

Kids need boundaries and force. Force is what they listen too. Talk, talk, talk. Kids will engage you all day and match wits with you.

Yes, communication has its place. Reasoning with recalcitrant, wayward kids is important. So is force.

How did they clean up Dodge City in the 1870s, or New York City in the late 1980s and '90s? Force.

Dozens of kids from the school have shown support for officer Fields. I'm glad to hear this.

You made some excellent points --- however, there's an underlying issue I think you overlooked. I found this very poignant analyst of something I feel you et al didn't consider. IMO its like a plague and there's NO cure for it --- There's elements within the black populous that will never change & the Hip-Hop culture is to blame.....period. Interesting read below

How Hip-Hop Destroys the Potential of Black Youth

by Jeffrey Hicks



Hip-hop has grown from its inner-city roots to appeal to a diverse and worldwide audience. It is no longer the fad some once considered it.

Unfortunately, it is also having a profound negative impact on young blacks. This aspect of hip-hop can no longer be tolerated.

Hip-hop is not just a style of music. It is a culture borne of poor, inner-city life in America that has evolved into the rallying cry of those unable to negotiate the nuances of the mainstream. It now serves to glorify formerly stigmatized characteristics of the lower class, preventing the impetus for upward mobility.

To start with, hip-hop lyrics involve recurring themes of braggadocio to the extent that one can only wonder if it is overcompensation for inadequacy.

Beyond the music, hip-hop culture encompasses street codes of behavior and an overall defiance of social convention. It is this defiance of mainstream life that is at the root of much of the underachievement now plaguing black youth. Hip-hop orthodoxy infers that young blacks who emulate mainstream attitudes are exhibiting weakness. This, of course, is a cardinal sin within that culture.

Black youth thus feel encouraged to eschew the important concept of deferred gratification at a life juncture most critical to future achievement.

Hip-hop also promotes the accumulation of gaudy symbols of success and to get them fast. When young men prance around with their ostentatious "bling," they illustrate their worthiness to the opposite sex. Materialism becomes a means for winning sexual conquests. Yet another is cultivating one's thug factor through braided hair, baggy clothing, ghetto diction and street reputation.

Not to be outdone, young black women play a role in perpetrating hip-hop culture as well. By rewarding young men who accumulate the bling or those who live the thug life, they maintain the appeal of this destructive lifestyle. Considering this, is there is any wonder why crime has such a foothold in young inner-city life?

Talented inner-city youth who should be bright enough to realize the importance of preparing themselves for the future too often can be demoralized and browbeaten into hip-hop conformity. The culture of hip hop can cause some of our best black students to be branded with accusations that they are "acting white" or not "keeping it real." Moreover, many teens who aspire to normal jobs are subjected to ridicule since the hip-hop imperative respects only fast money, regardless of legality.

Sadly, even when hip-hop devotees do take positive steps and attempt to enter the mainstream job market, they often find themselves devoid of the skills necessary for the best career paths. Because hip-hop is frequently the cultural norm for inner-city young blacks, it is only natural for these young people to see no harm in applying for a job with unsightly cornrows, baggy clothing and using less-than-acceptable English.

But what about the differences between black and white youth consumers of hip-hop culture? Why do they seem not to be as adversely affected as black youth?

For white youth, hip-hop tends to serve as little more than a medium for rebellion, much like rock and roll was during the 1950s. Only rarely do the children of the white middle class try to take on hip-hop as a way of life.

Thanks to the global reach of the American entertainment industry, it is no surprise that angry and underpr ivileged youth in Europe, Africa and Asia are now enthusiastically embracing hip-hop. It's important not to forget that hip-hop culture was intertwined in last year's violent rioting of black and Arab youth in France. Recall how the rioters dressed and conducted themselves in a thug-like manner, as well as the hip hop music they blasted while torching vehicles and property.

Let's face it. Hip-hop culture deadens the drive toward civility and legitimizes backwardness. It is high time the general public comes to terms with the social damage it perpetuates. If not, we can all count on yet another inner-city generation suffering from wasted potential.

# # #

Jeffrey Hicks is a member of national advisory council of the black leadership network Project 21. Comments may be sent to Project21@nationalcenter.org.

Published by The National Center for Public Policy Research. Reprints permitted provided source is credited. New Visions Commentaries reflect the views of their author, and not necessarily those of Project 21 or the National Center for Public Policy Research.





Center for Environmental Justice

Quote: HeySlick

You made some excellent points --- however, there's an underlying issue I think you overlooked. I found this very poignant analyst of something I feel you et al didn't consider. IMO its like a plague and there's NO cure for it --- There's elements within the black populous that will never change & the Hip-Hop culture is to blame.....period. Interesting read below

How Hip-Hop Destroys the Potential of Black Youth

by Jeffrey Hicks



Hip-hop has grown from its inner-city roots to appeal to a diverse and worldwide audience. It is no longer the fad some once considered it.

Unfortunately, it is also having a profound negative impact on young blacks. This aspect of hip-hop can no longer be tolerated.

Hip-hop is not just a style of music. It is a culture borne of poor, inner-city life in America that has evolved into the rallying cry of those unable to negotiate the nuances of the mainstream. It now serves to glorify formerly stigmatized characteristics of the lower class, preventing the impetus for upward mobility.

To start with, hip-hop lyrics involve recurring themes of braggadocio to the extent that one can only wonder if it is overcompensation for inadequacy.

Beyond the music, hip-hop culture encompasses street codes of behavior and an overall defiance of social convention. It is this defiance of mainstream life that is at the root of much of the underachievement now plaguing black youth. Hip-hop orthodoxy infers that young blacks who emulate mainstream attitudes are exhibiting weakness. This, of course, is a cardinal sin within that culture.

Black youth thus feel encouraged to eschew the important concept of deferred gratification at a life juncture most critical to future achievement.

Hip-hop also promotes the accumulation of gaudy symbols of success and to get them fast. When young men prance around with their ostentatious "bling," they illustrate their worthiness to the opposite sex. Materialism becomes a means for winning sexual conquests. Yet another is cultivating one's thug factor through braided hair, baggy clothing, ghetto diction and street reputation.

Not to be outdone, young black women play a role in perpetrating hip-hop culture as well. By rewarding young men who accumulate the bling or those who live the thug life, they maintain the appeal of this destructive lifestyle. Considering this, is there is any wonder why crime has such a foothold in young inner-city life?

Talented inner-city youth who should be bright enough to realize the importance of preparing themselves for the future too often can be demoralized and browbeaten into hip-hop conformity. The culture of hip hop can cause some of our best black students to be branded with accusations that they are "acting white" or not "keeping it real." Moreover, many teens who aspire to normal jobs are subjected to ridicule since the hip-hop imperative respects only fast money, regardless of legality.

Sadly, even when hip-hop devotees do take positive steps and attempt to enter the mainstream job market, they often find themselves devoid of the skills necessary for the best career paths. Because hip-hop is frequently the cultural norm for inner-city young blacks, it is only natural for these young people to see no harm in applying for a job with unsightly cornrows, baggy clothing and using less-than-acceptable English.

But what about the differences between black and white youth consumers of hip-hop culture? Why do they seem not to be as adversely affected as black youth?

For white youth, hip-hop tends to serve as little more than a medium for rebellion, much like rock and roll was during the 1950s. Only rarely do the children of the white middle class try to take on hip-hop as a way of life.

Thanks to the global reach of the American entertainment industry, it is no surprise that angry and underpr ivileged youth in Europe, Africa and Asia are now enthusiastically embracing hip-hop. It's important not to forget that hip-hop culture was intertwined in last year's violent rioting of black and Arab youth in France. Recall how the rioters dressed and conducted themselves in a thug-like manner, as well as the hip hop music they blasted while torching vehicles and property.

Let's face it. Hip-hop culture deadens the drive toward civility and legitimizes backwardness. It is high time the general public comes to terms with the social damage it perpetuates. If not, we can all count on yet another inner-city generation suffering from wasted potential.

# # #

Jeffrey Hicks is a member of national advisory council of the black leadership network Project 21. Comments may be sent to Project21@nationalcenter.org.

Published by The National Center for Public Policy Research. Reprints permitted provided source is credited. New Visions Commentaries reflect the views of their author, and not necessarily those of Project 21 or the National Center for Public Policy Research.





Center for Environmental Justice

Thanks for posted this. Unfortunately, hip-hop culture will be around as long as it is considered abnoxious, because that's what it's meant to be.

Get a good education, be thoughtful, intelligent and respectful? Hip-hop culture is the black community saying, "No."

Quote: HeySlick

You made some excellent points --- however, there's an underlying issue I think you overlooked. I found this very poignant analyst of something I feel you et al didn't consider. IMO its like a plague and there's NO cure for it --- There's elements within the black populous that will never change & the Hip-Hop culture is to blame.....period. Interesting read below

How Hip-Hop Destroys the Potential of Black Youth

by Jeffrey Hicks



Hip-hop has grown from its inner-city roots to appeal to a diverse and worldwide audience. It is no longer the fad some once considered it.

Unfortunately, it is also having a profound negative impact on young blacks. This aspect of hip-hop can no longer be tolerated.

Hip-hop is not just a style of music. It is a culture borne of poor, inner-city life in America that has evolved into the rallying cry of those unable to negotiate the nuances of the mainstream. It now serves to glorify formerly stigmatized characteristics of the lower class, preventing the impetus for upward mobility.

To start with, hip-hop lyrics involve recurring themes of braggadocio to the extent that one can only wonder if it is overcompensation for inadequacy.

Beyond the music, hip-hop culture encompasses street codes of behavior and an overall defiance of social convention. It is this defiance of mainstream life that is at the root of much of the underachievement now plaguing black youth. Hip-hop orthodoxy infers that young blacks who emulate mainstream attitudes are exhibiting weakness. This, of course, is a cardinal sin within that culture.

Black youth thus feel encouraged to eschew the important concept of deferred gratification at a life juncture most critical to future achievement.

Hip-hop also promotes the accumulation of gaudy symbols of success and to get them fast. When young men prance around with their ostentatious "bling," they illustrate their worthiness to the opposite sex. Materialism becomes a means for winning sexual conquests. Yet another is cultivating one's thug factor through braided hair, baggy clothing, ghetto diction and street reputation.

Not to be outdone, young black women play a role in perpetrating hip-hop culture as well. By rewarding young men who accumulate the bling or those who live the thug life, they maintain the appeal of this destructive lifestyle. Considering this, is there is any wonder why crime has such a foothold in young inner-city life?

Talented inner-city youth who should be bright enough to realize the importance of preparing themselves for the future too often can be demoralized and browbeaten into hip-hop conformity. The culture of hip hop can cause some of our best black students to be branded with accusations that they are "acting white" or not "keeping it real." Moreover, many teens who aspire to normal jobs are subjected to ridicule since the hip-hop imperative respects only fast money, regardless of legality.

Sadly, even when hip-hop devotees do take positive steps and attempt to enter the mainstream job market, they often find themselves devoid of the skills necessary for the best career paths. Because hip-hop is frequently the cultural norm for inner-city young blacks, it is only natural for these young people to see no harm in applying for a job with unsightly cornrows, baggy clothing and using less-than-acceptable English.

But what about the differences between black and white youth consumers of hip-hop culture? Why do they seem not to be as adversely affected as black youth?

For white youth, hip-hop tends to serve as little more than a medium for rebellion, much like rock and roll was during the 1950s. Only rarely do the children of the white middle class try to take on hip-hop as a way of life.

Thanks to the global reach of the American entertainment industry, it is no surprise that angry and underpr ivileged youth in Europe, Africa and Asia are now enthusiastically embracing hip-hop. It's important not to forget that hip-hop culture was intertwined in last year's violent rioting of black and Arab youth in France. Recall how the rioters dressed and conducted themselves in a thug-like manner, as well as the hip hop music they blasted while torching vehicles and property.

Let's face it. Hip-hop culture deadens the drive toward civility and legitimizes backwardness. It is high time the general public comes to terms with the social damage it perpetuates. If not, we can all count on yet another inner-city generation suffering from wasted potential.

# # #

Jeffrey Hicks is a member of national advisory council of the black leadership network Project 21. Comments may be sent to Project21@nationalcenter.org.

Published by The National Center for Public Policy Research. Reprints permitted provided source is credited. New Visions Commentaries reflect the views of their author, and not necessarily those of Project 21 or the National Center for Public Policy Research.





Center for Environmental Justice

Properly named... Jeffrey Hicks.

SOO you attack the messenger -- you must be a hip hop fan? I have absolute disdain for the hip hop culture and what it has done to many poor black communities through out America. Your compliancy is disturbing.

I am thinking of places where there is no police, nor schools. It does get cold in many parts of the U.S. during winter month. The utility workers will be afraid to go there, delivery trucks won't come, the place will be a frozen tundra, I want to see hip hop culture lovers with out food, and warm houses, that should make them to appreciate the work of police and schools which train people on how to make things work around here.

Quote: Dicenor33

I am thinking of places where there is no police, nor schools. It does get cold in many parts of the U.S. during winter month. The utility workers will be afraid to go there, delivery trucks won't come, the place will be a frozen tundra, I want to see hip hop culture lovers with out food, and warm houses, that should make them to appreciate the work of police and schools which train people on how to make things work around here.

I hear you! I'm so disgusted (edit) with what the hip hop culture has done to our country and, in many ways the entire world. I've always listened to Motown artist since I was a very young man (actually I'm listening to 'Soul Town' in the background on Sirrus radio as I write this). The article I posted about the hip hop culture is spot on but it falls on deaf ears -- to many within that disgusting culture will never change & they/SOME will continue to blame others for their problems and, in particular supposedly racist white people for criticizing hip hop culture.

Quote: HeySlick

SOO you attack the messenger -- you must be a hip hop fan? I have absolute disdain for the hip hop culture and what it has done to many poor black communities through out America. Your compliancy is disturbing.

Who were you referring to? I'm not attacking anyone I just though it was funny his last name was Hicks.

I'm not always happy with what I observe and I agree with some aspects of this article.

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: HeySlick

SOO you attack the messenger -- you must be a hip hop fan? I have absolute disdain for the hip hop culture and what it has done to many poor black communities through out America. Your compliancy is disturbing.

Who were you referring to? I'm not attacking anyone I just though it was funny his last name was Hicks.

I'm not always happy with what I observe and I agree with some aspects of this article.

Sorry, I took it the wrong way --- I found the article interesting and honest --- it's to bad/unfortunate this will NEVER reach MSM media sources et al.

That article on Hip Hop destroying todays black youth is the most ridiculous (possibly racist) crap I've ever read.

First off, as someone who grew up in an almost all black community in the seventies, crime was actually much higher (I remember thinking at seven years old that all people were mugged on a monthly basis, my mother was on such a regular basis I thought it normal.)

It must have been the hip hop music of 1974? O wait a minute, didn't have that back then. Must have been Chic and Marvin Gaye?

One of the lines in the article about the braggadocio of hip hop artists being so strong that perhaps they are overcompensating for their inadequacy? Yeah, right, cuz we all know most black men feel inferior about their small sexual organs, lol.

Quote: darkoz

That article on Hip Hop destroying todays black youth is the most ridiculous (possibly racist) crap I've ever read.

First off, as someone who grew up in an almost all black community in the seventies, crime was actually much higher (I remember thinking at seven years old that all people were mugged on a monthly basis, my mother was on such a regular basis I thought it normal.)

It must have been the hip hop music of 1974? O wait a minute, didn't have that back then. Must have been Chic and Marvin Gaye?

One of the lines in the article about the braggadocio of hip hop artists being so strong that perhaps they are overcompensating for their inadequacy? Yeah, right, cuz we all know most black men feel inferior about their small sexual organs, lol.

Why don't you find the link within said article -- then complain to the author about how bogus his article is? BTW NO where within the article does the writer imply or say the natural of said inadequacies -- you made the insulation/accusation, in the italic type above.


here's the link for you -- btw your welcome.
https://www.nationalcenter.org/P21NVHicksHipHop90706.html

here's another link regarding the issue you disputed above i.e., braggadocio
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compensation_(psychology)

Here's another article. https://crandall1950syoungculture.wordpress.com/rock-n-roll/

Oh, wait a minute. That's not hip hop. It's rock and roll from the fifties.


quote:
During the 1950’s many parents did not like Rock and Roll because they thought that it caused juvenile delinquency. At the time the music contained sexual connotation, this vulgarism and suggestive choice of words made the teens want to listen to it more because their parents did not approve and teens felt like they had something to belong to. Many parents at the time gave their children ultimatums to stop listening to the music but it was unsuccessful. Parents feared that their children would start to act and dress like these musicians. So, parents tried to ban Rock and Roll music from many radio stations at the time. Bruce Tucker author of “Tell Tchaikovsky the News: Postmodernism, Popular Culture, and the Emergence of Rock and Roll” say in his journal “Urging juke box operators to purge “immoral” records…brings out animalism and vulgarity” (40-41). This refers to the parent generations hate for Rock and Roll music because these parents thought Rock and Roll was a bad influence on their children. Parents feared that with increasing crime rates that their children would take up the acts of the musicians they loved and the criminals.

What a preposterous comparison --- FYI I grew up in the fifties and my parents were NEVER in fear of the rock and roll music my sister and I listened to -- my father didn't like it because he was born in another era i.e., the big band era of the 40's - he was a WWII veteran. Later on he began liking lots of the same music I listened to e.g. -- Santana and Barry White, Earth Wind and Fire and other black artists at the time.

Yeah, your parents just burned comic books

Quote: darkoz

Yeah, your parents just burned comic books

LMAO! 'Ain't that peculiar' as Marvin Gaye once sang --- since my sister and I NEVER read OR cared for comic books. I Love Music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-jbbzSXMIA

Quote: darkoz

Yeah, your parents just burned comic books

There will always be a scapegoat for why people act in abhorrent ways, whether it be materialistic, idealistic, philosophic, or whatever other reason someone comes up with.

Quote: Dodsferd

There will always be a scapegoat for why people act in abhorrent ways, whether it be materialistic, idealistic, philosophic, or whatever other reason someone comes up with.

Thank you Dodsferd. That's what I was trying to get at. This blaming of artistic material created for a younger generation by an older generation of bringing out the worst in people is hardly new and sadly shows history repeats itself and very few people learn from past lessons.

Quote: HeySlick

LMAO! 'Ain't that peculiar' as Marvin Gaye once sang --- since my sister and I NEVER read OR cared for comic books. I Love Music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-jbbzSXMIA

That's fine but certainly you are aware, having grown up in the fifties, that parents were burning comic books, throwing them out and horrified at rock and roll because it was determined by older adult analysts that they were poisoning youth culture. That rock and roll was blamed for promiscuity, drug use and the general moral destruction of teens.

Quote: darkoz

That rock and roll was blamed for promiscuity, drug use and the general moral destruction of teens.

Music has been blamed since a caveman first started banging two rocks together.

Quote: darkoz

That's fine but certainly you are aware, having grown up in the fifties, that parents were burning comic books, throwing them out and horrified at rock and roll because it was determined by older adult analysts that they were poisoning youth culture. That rock and roll was blamed for promiscuity, drug use and the general moral destruction of teens.

This, unfortunately, is a trend that'll continue as long as people maintain the capacity of irrational thinking. By comparison, I grew up listening to heavy metal, hypnotic EDM, and playing violent video games.

By all rights, I should be addicted to drugs, violent, and have been involved in at least several felonies. None of which is true.

The problem lies within the personalities of the individuals, not venues of entertainments they seek.

I detest gangster rap and you seem to consider it artistic --- it's NEGATIVE! Never in the history of traditional rock n roll have any artist called for the killing of the police. Also the violence within SOME rap music is overwhelming. Again, none of MY relatives EVER burned any comic books. I had several cousins who loved comic books, and at times would rather lay around reading comic books than go outside & play.....IMO boring.


https://web.stanford.edu/class/e297c/poverty_prejudice/mediarace/negative.htm

Quote: Dodsferd

This, unfortunately, is a trend that'll continue as long as people maintain the capacity of irrational thinking. By comparison, I grew up listening to heavy metal, hypnotic EDM, and playing violent video games.

By all rights, I should be addicted to drugs, violent, and have been involved in at least several felonies. None of which is true.

The problem lies within the personalities of the individuals, not venues of entertainments they seek.

I wholeheartedly agree - which brings us back to how that article cited was ridiculously racist blaming criminality of black youth on hip hop music.

Quote: darkoz

I wholeheartedly agree - which brings us back to how that article cited was ridiculously racist blaming criminality of black youth on hip hop music.

You and the other poster keep consigning each other and missing the entire point/bottom-line within this article. The negative aspects within the hip hop culture are relevant within SOME troubled black communities thru out America & you're in denial if you say it isn't detrimental to some young fatherless black youth. BTW why are you getting SO offended/defensive about the reality/truth in this article?

Quote: HeySlick

I detest gangster rap and you seem to consider it artistic --- it's NEGATIVE! Never in the history of traditional rock n roll have any artist called for the killing of the police. Also the violence within SOME rap music is overwhelming. Again, none of MY relatives EVER burned any comic books. I had several cousins who loved comic books, and at times would rather lay around reading comic books than go outside & play.....IMO boring.


https://web.stanford.edu/class/e297c/poverty_prejudice/mediarace/negative.htm

You won't find a genre that doesn't have a varied degree of morality and messages; both good and bad. This particular genre isn't the only one with this element.

Be warned, the spoilers contain potentially offensive and disturbing content.
All That Remains - No Knock (Heavy Metal) -
Avenged Sevenfold - A Little Piece Of Heaven (Heavy Metal) -
Velvet Acid Christ - Pretty Toy (Darkwave / Trance)
Suicide Commando - BTK (Aggrotech)

The True History of Rock 'n Roll

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa_EGQHxzRY

That isn't traditional rock n roll -- it's heavy metal. You and I disagree, lets just leave it at that.

Quote: HeySlick

I detest gangster rap and you seem to consider it artistic --- it's NEGATIVE! Never in the history of traditional rock n roll have any artist called for the killing of the police.

Quote: Dodsferd

You won't find a genre that doesn't have a varied degree of morality and messages; both good and bad.

Quote: HeySlick

That isn't traditional rock n roll -- it's heavy metal. You and I disagree, lets just leave it at that.

I stand by my statement. You will find every sort of message in every genre. That's the artistic freedom that people explore. I'm not disagreeing with anything you've said, I'm pointing out that one genre in specific is not responsible in it's entirety.

Quote: rxwine

The True History of Rock 'n Roll

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa_EGQHxzRY

Let's be fair and balanced.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAl_6HJmvJg

Quote: Dodsferd

You won't find a genre that doesn't have a varied degree of morality and messages; both good and bad. This particular genre isn't the only one with this element.

Be warned, the spoilers contain potentially offensive and disturbing content.
All That Remains - No Knock (Heavy Metal) -

Contents

A song about massacring an entire building of sleeping unsuspecting people.

Avenged Sevenfold - A Little Piece Of Heaven (Heavy Metal) -

Contents

A song about murdering a significant other, and continuing a carnal relationship with her afterwards.

Velvet Acid Christ - Pretty Toy (Darkwave / Trance)

Contents

A song about torturing and murdering someone for the purposes of rape and pleasure

Suicide Commando - BTK (Aggrotech)

Contents

A song glorifying the atrocities committed by Dennis Lynn Rader, known as "Bind, Torture, Kill"

Let's use some mainstream examples please.

I'm friends with people of all ages races and walks of life and it's unlikely anyone I know has heard of those songs.

I listen to all types of music including some hip hop. I have a wide range everything from 70s disco, 70's - 2015 rock, 80s new wave, 80's -2015 rap, 90's alternative. Marilyn Manson, Eminem, G&R, Attic monkeys, Charily Mars, Chris Isaak, Alanis Morissette, STP, Rob Zombie, Flo Rida , 2 live crew, Metallica, AC/DC
Elvis.

I have never heard of any of the bands you just mentioned.

Main stream hip hop has a much bigger impact than some obscure bands.

Quote: AxelWolf

Let's use some mainstream examples please.

I'm friends with people of all ages races and walks of life and it's unlikely anyone I know has heard of those songs.

I listen to all types of music including some hip hop. I have a wide range everything from 70s disco, 70's - 2015 rock, 80s new wave, 80's -2015 rap, 90's alternative. Marilyn Manson, Eminem, G&R, Attic monkeys, Charily Mars, Chris Isaak, Alanis Morissette, STP, Rob Zombie, Flo Rida , 2 live crew, Metallica, AC/DC
Elvis.

I have never heard of any of the bands you just mentioned.

Main stream hip hop has a much bigger impact than some obscure bands.

They're hardly obscure. I listen to a very wide variety of music myself, housing 6,000 individual songs in my library.
All That Remains was formed in 1998, producing 7 studio albums.
Avenged Sevenfold in 1999, producing 6 studio albums.

Given that my musical taste is different than yours, it's not valid? Doesn't sound any less appropriate for the discussion.
I honestly don't expect anyone here to have ever heard of the second two bands, as I can't see them being a popular genre for those who frequent this forum. ATR and Ax7 are far from obscure though. (I've seen ATR in concert live with In Flames recently, great show.)

Quote: AxelWolf

Let's use some mainstream examples please.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D58wvyalJls

Somebody died, I'm pretty sure.

Quote: Dodsferd

Given that my musical taste is different than yours, it's not valid? )

No (-;

MAYBE it's not the music's fault.....maybe it's the people's fault! [Oh wait, does that make me a 'racist'?]

Duplicate

Quote: RS

MAYBE it's not the music's fault.....maybe it's the people's fault! [Oh wait, does that make me a 'racist'?]

Obviously you're partially racist, I think most people are(depending on how you define it, if stereotyping is racists most people are guilty). I haven't meet one person who isn't somewhat racist(Blacks are racists to). BTW black cops target blacks more often as well. Black Taxi drivers are guilty as well.

People can deny it all they want but I don't believe it one bit.

Unfortunately there are people who hate others purely because of the color of their skin no matter how good that person may be. I don't care what color your skin is, if you're gay, if you're old, young, nerdy or different, if your a good person and I can get along with you, I can be friends with anyone.


I do think the hip hop culture (not just the music) is a huge contributing factor to bad behavior among the youth and even some older people.

Everybody on this thread should watch "A Clockwork Orange" again for some perspective on violence amongst youths around the world and a critique of brainwashing in all its negative aspects (hint: Beethoven instills a level of the old ultra-violence).

If you've ever read Anthony Burgess, he knew what he was talking about.

BTW - the movie left out the last chapter. The original book as published in England has a different ending than the movie.

Quote: darkoz

Everybody on this thread should watch "A Clockwork Orange" again for some perspective on violence amongst youths around the world and a critique of brainwashing in all its negative aspects (hint: Beethoven instills a level of the old ultra-violence).

If you've ever read Anthony Burgess, he knew what he was talking about.

BTW - the movie left out the last chapter. The original book as published in England has a different ending than the movie.

Loved that movie, saw it probably close to ten years ago. Absolutely well done, though it had quite the disturbing parts to it. For the time at least.

I wasn't going to raise the racist card with the remarks on the "Hip Hop Culture" which came from Project 21. Project 21 is a group of extreme right-wing Republican Aftrican-Americans. So, I can't really call the author's remarks racist.

I can call them stupid though.

It's really about the chicken and the egg. Hip-hop music (and all music) is a product of the times. New-wave, heavy-metal, the grunge movement, pretty much all music is an evolution/revolution of something in the past. Hip-hop is expressing the feelings of a portion of the population. It is popular because the people listening to it can identify with it. If the music is disturbing to you, it is likely because you can't identify with it. Was there a "grunge" culture? A "New Wave" culture. Absolutely.

Hip-hop music is for those who are disenfranchised, feeling left-behind, and are pretty upset about it. Now does the music push the people who like the music into a different kind of behavior. To some extent, sure. Identifying with a kind of music gives you connections to other people who are and feel the same way. And you can group these people with a "culture".

Does that mean that the music leads to a bad culture? Well, that's just like saying that guns don't kill people. People kill people, right? (You can't have it both ways). In the same way that responsible people with guns don't kill people, people who enjoy hip-hop are not all unemployed rebel-rousers. I realize that was a polarizing example, which is my point.

If the music were to all of a sudden disappear, it doesn't take the feelings of those people away. The music is a product of the culture, not the other way around. People identify with the music.

Quote: boymimbo

I wasn't going to raise the racist card with the remarks on the "Hip Hop Culture" which came from Project 21. Project 21 is a group of extreme right-wing Republican Aftrican-Americans. So, I can't really call the author's remarks racist.

I can call them stupid though.

It's really about the chicken and the egg. Hip-hop music (and all music) is a product of the times. New-wave, heavy-metal, the grunge movement, pretty much all music is an evolution/revolution of something in the past. Hip-hop is expressing the feelings of a portion of the population. It is popular because the people listening to it can identify with it. If the music is disturbing to you, it is likely because you can't identify with it. Was there a "grunge" culture? A "New Wave" culture. Absolutely.

Hip-hop music is for those who are disenfranchised, feeling left-behind, and are pretty upset about it. Now does the music push the people who like the music into a different kind of behavior. To some extent, sure. Identifying with a kind of music gives you connections to other people who are and feel the same way. And you can group these people with a "culture".

Does that mean that the music leads to a bad culture? Well, that's just like saying that guns don't kill people. People kill people, right? (You can't have it both ways). In the same way that responsible people with guns don't kill people, people who enjoy hip-hop are not all unemployed rebel-rousers. I realize that was a polarizing example, which is my point.

If the music were to all of a sudden disappear, it doesn't take the feelings of those people away. The music is a product of the culture, not the other way around. People identify with the music.

I found the article very informative and truthful ---- if people continue to deny that certain elements within the hip hop culture are destructive to many poor and troubled black communities thru-out this country.

IMO that will lead to another generation of lost souls. I just don't agree with the excellent verbiage expressed by the poster above -- who feels that to some extent the rap music has affected the behavior of some within that circle ---- very true but, how many more generations of troubled black youth need to go thru that scenario of despair and resentment. Why keep on keeping on with the insanity?

edit/add
IF, Hip Hop in its purest form is about empowerment, unity, culture, creativity and hope. And God knows we need it. I just can't buy into that theory -- the negativity of rap music is to overwhelming for me....does that make or mean I'm a racist? some may say YES some may say NO --- ONLY my heart knows the answer to that ?

Quote: HeySlick

I found the article very informative and truthful ---- if people continue to deny that certain elements within the hip hop culture are destructive to many poor and troubled black communities thru-out this country.

IMO that will lead to another generation of lost souls. I just don't agree with the excellent verbiage expressed by the poster above -- who feels that to some extent the rap music has affected the behavior of some within that circle ---- very true but, how many more generations of troubled black youth need to go thru that scenario of despair and resentment. Why keep on keeping on with the insanity?

edit/add
IF, Hip Hop in its purest form is about empowerment, unity, culture, creativity and hope. And God knows we need it. I just can't buy into that theory -- the negativity of rap music is to overwhelming for me....does that make or mean I'm a racist? some may say YES some may say NO --- ONLY my heart knows the answer to that ?

And yet the most popular song in the hood this week is Downtown by Macklemore, a hip hop song far away from being negative.

Quote: darkoz

And yet the most popular song in the hood this week is Downtown by Macklemore, a hip hop song far away from being negative.

I very seriously doubt that song is very popular with the blacks.

Quote: RS

I very seriously doubt that song is very popular with the blacks.

More racism.

My family is mostly black. I live in a predominantly black neighborhood. Trust me, its what most of the people are talking about musically this week.

What's the matter? Can't imagine black people listening to feel good music?

Hell, lot of the conversation was just seeing Kool Moe Dee again. This song is very seventies Blaxploitation oriented and that appeals to a large market of the hood.

Quote: Greasyjohn

When I was in high school, no one, and I mean no one, would have defied a teacher and refused to stop doing something disruptive or against the rules. And I can't recall one instance where a child brought a knife or gun to school, let alone attacked others in this way.

We're so open-minded and progressive with our thinking today. Let's do everything to not use force to discipline our young. Pure rubbish.

Kids need boundaries and force. Force is what they listen too. Talk, talk, talk. Kids will engage you all day and match wits with you.

Yes, communication has its place. Reasoning with recalcitrant, wayward kids is important. So is force.

How did they clean up Dodge City in the 1870s, or New York City in the late 1980s and '90s? Force.

Dozens of kids from the school have shown support for officer Fields. I'm glad to hear this.

No one said that force should not be used. There are times that "force" or physical actions become necessary and must be applied, but it should only applied as a last resort. The civilizations has made good advance over the years through researches, innovations, inventions, and many lessons learned. And many researches had shown that corporal punishment can have negative impact on children behavior such as in increased children aggression and antisocial behavior. The lessons learned from these studies are that corporal punishment can result in lasting physical or mental injury, and consequently the civilized societies no longer considered corporal punishment an effective mean of discipline.

Other items of interest:

For movie fans:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsUlGPV01CM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sfyCJvyomA&list=PLF87614CD66FBA1A7

For law enforcement fans:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emmoJvpSGyw

(Note: If you don’t have time then forward to the 14:26 time portion of the above Youtube video link, and watch the entire 18 minutes of the video later when you have time)

A Surgeon General's warning: The lack of respect by the police officers AND their courtroom buddies from the video above could cause psychological harm to your mind and could make it difficult for you to understand the term "respect authority" in your next encounter with the law enforcement personnel.

Have you ever wonder why the mistrust of those whose job is to "protect and serve" has now gotten to the point that, when some citizens hear on the news that a police officer has been shot, he or she "just smile." You can blame the mistrust between the law enforcement personnel and the citizen on the very rapid advancement of the information age -- cell phone, video cam, blog, social media, emails, 24/7 news, paid talking heads …)

For DI and RNG fans:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n8LNxGbZbs

For Ex-Officer Ben Fields fans:
https://www.giveforward.com/fundraiser/n5kb

Quote: HeySlick

I found the article very informative and truthful ---- if people continue to deny that certain elements within the hip hop culture are destructive to many poor and troubled black communities thru-out this country.

IMO that will lead to another generation of lost souls. I just don't agree with the excellent verbiage expressed by the poster above -- who feels that to some extent the rap music has affected the behavior of some within that circle ---- very true but, how many more generations of troubled black youth need to go thru that scenario of despair and resentment. Why keep on keeping on with the insanity?

edit/add
IF, Hip Hop in its purest form is about empowerment, unity, culture, creativity and hope. And God knows we need it. I just can't buy into that theory -- the negativity of rap music is to overwhelming for me....does that make or mean I'm a racist? some may say YES some may say NO --- ONLY my heart knows the answer to that ?

Wasn't this all said in the late 50's concerning Rock-n-Roll
Now you have guys like Huckabee, hard core Christian conservative, playing bass with rocker Ten Nugent
30 years from now we may have a President that grew up on hip-hop
Its just music
When I heard White Rabbit the 1st time, I did not go out and do tons of drugs
Hip-hop is just music. Much ado about nothing

Quote: darkoz

More racism.

My family is mostly black. I live in a predominantly black neighborhood. Trust me, its what most of the people are talking about musically this week.

What's the matter? Can't imagine black people listening to feel good music?

why is this song so popular now? it came out so long ago.. 3 months for a song is like a decade. Get with the times man

Quote: ajemeister

why is this song so popular now? it came out so long ago.. 3 months for a song is like a decade. Get with the times man

Which proves just how popular it is. It's called staying power.

Measure the youtube views on a daily basis. It's been receiving a million views per day for almost a month now.

on its way out you mean.... look at the charts http://www.billboard.com/charts/hot-100

Here's a wonderful example of why you can't trust police.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtNvxZ9yCcI

terapined said:

Wasn't this all said in the late 50's concerning Rock-n-Roll
Now you have guys like Huckabee, hard core Christian conservative, playing bass with rocker Ten Nugent
30 years from now we may have a President that grew up on hip-hop
Its just music
When I heard White Rabbit the 1st time, I did not go out and do tons of drugs
Hip-hop is just music. Much ado about nothing




IMO The paragraph below from the article I posted earlier really describes my true sentiments regarding the messages within a lot of so called music i.e., rap and in particular gangster rap --- destroying the minds of some of our impressionable black youth.


Hip-hop is not just a style of music. It is a culture borne of poor, inner-city life in America that has evolved into the rallying cry of those unable to negotiate the nuances of the mainstream. It now serves to glorify formerly stigmatized characteristics of the lower class, preventing the impetus for upward mobility.