Lack of Common Sense in wov football pool

There's nothing to stop somebody from just redeeming the code then, unless they truly forget about everything.

Quote: strictlyAP

easy way to do it everyone buy a gift card for amazon give the codes to mission then he just forwards codes to anyone that wins

not everyone wants $200 to amazon.

Quote: boymimbo

My solution:

(1) make the contest clear next time and make it clear that you are playing for money that can be lost
(2) allow week 1 to be a free week.
(3) If you participate after week 1, and you drop out, you are responsible for your liability up until LAST place of a participating member. That is, if last place was 34.04%, your assumed liability is up to 34.04%.

To that end, MJ should pay Aye $24.58 which is AssWhooperMcDaddy's last place ranking. That would restore goodwill.

I am open to boymimbo's proposal as a solution to this problem. I think it is important to preserve the integrity of the contest by honoring those who paid. If that is not acceptable to MJ, here are two alternatives that I would find acceptable:
1) Let's go double or nothing on the Superbowl. If you win, you owe nothing. If you lose you owe me double the $58 and change.
2) Donate double the $58 and change to the "Three Square Food Bank" in Las Vegas (threesquare(dot)org). This is the charity of choice for other contests on this board, and they have been vetted previously and found to be an upright operation.

At the end of the day, this is supposed to be fun. If MJ doesn't want to do any of the above, he always has to option to do nothing, and let the procedures outlined in the original rules play out... but that's no fun.

What would be even easier would be if people would just pay attention to what they are doing in the first place. While I have some sympathy for MJ...in the end he entered a contest...didn't follow the rules (or completely understand them, which in the end is the same thing), and now doesn't want to pay.

I lost, I paid....I forgot to submit picks a couple of time toward the end of the season...but I still paid. Mission does a great job of running the contest and dealing with the hassles. He shouldn't have to hold everyone's hand all the time, the rules are clear enough as it is. You make a bet. You lose. You pay the bet. Simple.

I agree that the Rules of the contest could have been clearer, definitely, but the main reason I went on such a posting flurry is because I took exception to, "Lack of common sense."

Pursuant to the vote last year, we changed the structure of the pays for this year, but for anyone who cares to look:

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/sports/11200-wov-picks-game-bet/

The formatting of the Rules was otherwise exactly the same.

Quote: vendman1

What would be even easier would be if people would just pay attention to what they are doing in the first place. While I have some sympathy for MJ...in the end he entered a contest...didn't follow the rules (or completely understand them, which in the end is the same thing), and now doesn't want to pay.

I lost, I paid....I forgot to submit picks a couple of time toward the end of the season...but I still paid. Mission does a great job of running the contest and dealing with the hassles. He shouldn't have to hold everyone's hand all the time, the rules are clear enough as it is. You make a bet. You lose. You pay the bet. Simple.

+1

Quote: Mission146

"Lack of common sense."

Yeah, I agree that that was overly harsh.

My name in Hebrew is the translation of Solomon. Knuckleball finished 5 games under 50% and owed $11.49. I propose that Minnesota Joe be given a .500 record for the rest of the season, and thus pay Ayecarumba $11.49, and I would hope there would be no hard feelings. I truly commend Minnesota Joe for returning to the forum and explaining his position. Having read many of AyeCarumba's posts, and interacted with him via PM, I am hopeful he would accept the $11.49 as payment in full. What say ye, Aye? What say ye, Minnesota?

Quote: SOOPOO

My name in Hebrew is the translation of Solomon. Knuckleball finished 5 games under 50% and owed $11.49. I propose that Minnesota Joe be given a .500 record for the rest of the season, and thus pay Ayecarumba $11.49, and I would hope there would be no hard feelings. I truly commend Minnesota Joe for returning to the forum and explaining his position. Having read many of AyeCarumba's posts, and interacted with him via PM, I am hopeful he would accept the $11.49 as payment in full. What say ye, Aye? What say ye, Minnesota?

WE WILL CUT THE BABY IN HALF!

You are wise, SOOPOO. I sort of agree with a middling, of sorts. While MJ is responsible to read rules, be accountable, blah, blah, blah, his response thus far does not reek of someone trying to pull a fast one. Irresponsibility? Sure. But malice? Nah.

In the end, it's up to MJ and Aye to come to an agreement to which their both happy with. If they do that, nothing else matters. But to add my own opinion to the din of the peanut gallery, yeah. I'd like to see some sort of redemption.

Pistols at high noon?

Quote: Ayecarumba

1) Let's go double or nothing on the Superbowl. If you win, you owe nothing. If you lose you owe me double the $58 and change.
2) Donate double the $58 and change to the "Three Square Food Bank" in Las Vegas (threesquare(dot)org). This is the charity of choice for other contests on this board, and they have been vetted previously and found to be an upright operation.

Ayecarumba, I admire you not being simple minded in this matter. I also like the fact that you willing to call it settled if I were to donate to a charity. It shows that you are not hounding for the money like a street bookie.

You picked 87 games. I picked 5, and Bengals +3 was a PUSH, not loss.
http://www.scoresandodds.com/grid_20130908.html
So my record is 0-4-1

I see that there are not ties in the section.. so I'm guess all ties were thrown out.

That puts me at 0-4

Here are two options that I find acceptable:

1. I am willing to pick 83 College Hoops/NBA games in February ATS... that would bring me up to 87 total games, same as you. Whatever I finish at, I will pay. Example. I finish 20% win rate, I would pay you 38$ and the change. HOWEVER, if I beat you, I want 25$ gift card... You can keep whatever payments you received from the other members.

2. We can wait until 2014 NFL regular season. I start 0-4 for Week 1... then I play out Weeks 2-17. Same rules as in option 1. I pay you the difference, but if I win I want the 25$ gift card, you keep the payments you've receive already.

Quote: minnesotajoe

Ayecarumba, I admire you not being simple minded in this matter. I also like the fact that you willing to call it settled if I were to donate to a charity. It shows that you are not hounding for the money like a street bookie.

You picked 87 games. I picked 5, and Bengals +3 was a PUSH, not loss.
http://www.scoresandodds.com/grid_20130908.html
So my record is 0-4-1

I see that there are not ties in the section.. so I'm guess all ties were thrown out.

That puts me at 0-4

Here are two options that I find acceptable:

1. I am willing to pick 83 College Hoops/NBA games in February ATS... that would bring me up to 87 total games, same as you. Whatever I finish at, I will pay. Example. I finish 20% win rate, I would pay you 38$ and the change. HOWEVER, if I beat you, I want 25$ gift card... You can keep whatever payments you received from the other members.

2. We can wait until 2014 NFL regular season. I start 0-4 for Week 1... then I play out Weeks 2-17. Same rules as in option 1. I pay you the difference, but if I win I want the 25$ gift card, you keep the payments you've receive already.

Not my deal and Aye can do whatever he sees fit, and I feel he has already given you multiple viable options. But why not just pay up and then bitch about the game instead of trying to make new rules and deals because you didn't read the original ones in the first place.

Quote: SOOPOO

My name in Hebrew is the translation of Solomon. Knuckleball finished 5 games under 50% and owed $11.49. I propose that Minnesota Joe be given a .500 record for the rest of the season, and thus pay Ayecarumba $11.49, and I would hope there would be no hard feelings. I truly commend Minnesota Joe for returning to the forum and explaining his position. Having read many of AyeCarumba's posts, and interacted with him via PM, I am hopeful he would accept the $11.49 as payment in full. What say ye, Aye? What say ye, Minnesota?

I like this idea too.

I don't like this idea and I don't like MJ's counterproposal either.

Either MJ participated in the contest or he didn't. If he did not, then he has no liability. If he did, then he is liable per the contest rules. Aye can either accept MJ's explanation and put him off the hook, which I think is the solution I would have to accept, or MJ can pay Aye a comprimise amount based on the average for the pool, last place, or some other method. This would be a better solution as I think MJ has to accept some liability for participating week 1.

I am shocked that everybody is sweating my counter-proposal. I did not know I was entering into a wager and now months later being told I have to pay for a lost wager.

His Super Bowl proposal isn't fair to me, because it would be so improbable to brick 87 games ATS I would never finish that far behind... and now I am just giving him a freeroll for 58$
His donation proposal, I like the fact that it is not him hounding for money he will see... but also not fair on same grounds. No participant would have finished that low ever.

An analogy... a person tells me that if I can throw a baseball 90mph he will give me 25$... I end up throwing 74 mph... now he tells me that I owe 16$... I am never going to pay that. There is absolutely no way I am going to pay 58$ for the football contest, and anybody here on this forum that says they would is full of shit. Now the winner finished at 58%.. that's a pretty good outcome. If he wants to put up his score against mine I will get into wager. Since all the NFL games for the 2013 regular season have already took place, I can't place my picks for the games that wee in the contest.
Picking any sport ATS has same probability. I even offered to wait until 2014 NFL... and I'm only asking he puts up the 25$ gift card and not even 1$ from payments he has received.

Never have I welched on a wager. There have been a lot of settlement proposals, but me playing Week 1 then no more weeks any fair minded individual understands that I clearly was not knowingly entering a wager. If he wants to make a wager, I proposed fair wagers..... With the wager, he stands to win more money than some of the settlements offered. Lets say I go 30-53 ATS..
30 / 87 = 34.45% then he gets 24$ which higher than proposals of 'just giving me 50% win rate" or going at what last place did, etc.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I can understand your frustration, but ultimately you should have read the rules. You even admitted that in the OP. BTW, I got the same invitation and skimmed over the rules (not reading them closely), and since it sounded like I could possibly owe money at the end of the season, I didn't bother entering. Ayecarumba's solution sounds very fair to me. If you won't accept anything other than not paying, then I don't understand the purpose of posting in the first place.

Quote: minnesotajoe

I am shocked that everybody is sweating my counter-proposal.

Whatever settlement is agreed upon with you and Aye is obviously between you two. I wouldn't be so shocked about the reactions to your counter-proposal, his options seem prettty fair.

Quote: minnesotajoe

I did not know I was entering into a wager ...

Well Mr. Officer, I didn't see the posted speed limit back there so surely that gets me out of the fine. C'mon, you aren't really going with the 'I didn't know so it doesn't apply to me' arguement?

Quote: boymimbo

My solution ....

(3) If you participate after week 1, and you drop out, you are responsible for your liability up until LAST place of a participating member. That is, if last place was 34.04%, your assumed liability is up to 34.04%.

To that end, MJ should pay Aye $24.58 which is AssWhooperMcDaddy's last place ranking. That would restore goodwill.

Quote: Ayecarumba

I am open to boymimbo's proposal as a solution to this problem. I think it is important to preserve the integrity of the contest by honoring those who paid.

Quote: minnesotajoe

His Super Bowl proposal isn't fair to me, because it would be so improbable to brick 87 games ATS I would never finish that far behind... and now I am just giving him a freeroll for 58$

So Aye isn't looking to hit you for $58 (although he could), it looks like he's willing to settle for $24.58 which seems more than fair, but apparently not to you?

Quote: minnesotajoe

An analogy... a person tells me that if I can throw a baseball 90mph he will give me 25$... I end up throwing 74 mph... now he tells me that I owe 16$... I am never going to pay that.

Let's get facts straight, if someone handed you a rule sheet, which you obviously read with the selection of the Confidence pick (see below), which said that if you didn't throw 90mph, you would owe some amount of money, and then you didn't pay up, then that's on you.

Quote: minnesotajoe

There is absolutely no way I am going to pay 58$ for the football contest, and anybody here on this forum that says they would is full of shit.

Don't tell me what I would and wouldn't have done. You can be damn sure I'd pay. I certainly wouldn't try to appeal to the masses and put on display how careless I was not to fully read and understand the rules

Quote: minnesotajoe

and I'm only asking he puts up the 25$ gift card and not even 1$ from payments he has received.

So you still want a chance to win something even though you missed the contest? Got to give it to you, that takes balls.

Quote: minnesotajoe

You picked 87 games. I picked 5, and Bengals +3 was a PUSH, not loss.

So my record is 0-4-1

I see that there are not ties in the section.. so I'm guess all ties were thrown out.

That puts me at 0-4

Finally, you claim you went 0-4 on week 1 (and yes the Bengals was a push so it doesn't count), but your confidence pick on Tampa Bay counts for two losses and thus 0-5.

Quote: mission146

MinnesotaJoe:

Bengals +3
Rams under 40.5
Packers +4.5
Eagles under 51.5
Buccaneers - 3.5-Confidence

And one more indication that you read the rules is that you followed the submission format described by Mission perfectly.

Quote: mission146

2.) For Spread picks, simply put the team nickname and the spread. (Ex: Bengals +5)

Like I stated at the start, it's up to you and Aye, but your post, your arguements, and your counter-proposal come off very poorly.

This thread simply comes down to lack of accountability which is a too common malady by many in our society today. Even the title of this thead "Lack of Common Sense in wov football pool" points the finger at everything other than the OP's mistake.

Quote: minnesotajoe

My gripe is the total lack of common sense from people running this. I still have not read the official rules on how payouts will be. The winner is decided on win percentage. Had I gone 5-0 week 1 then didn't pick again, would I have won and been paid? Zero chance. After no interaction for 4 weeks (let alone every week after week 1) why wouldn't they just throw my name out... And was this set 500$ to winner, and 25$ will be added.. or was the amount owed calculated based another way? If it set up such that the winner gets 500$ and how much from whom is based on % the people running should have thrown out score.

I will be the first to admit, I should have read the complete rules (which I still have not).. and made sure this was just a freeroll to the 25$.. however, next time similar situation comes up... use common sense.

If the OP had come to the forum and in his inital post admitted he fucked up by not reading the rules (without trying to qualify it), provided some suggestions to help avoid a similar situation next year, and asked Aye if he would accept some sort of settlement for less than the full amount owed, many would have respected it. Instead, he come in guns ablazing, pointing the fingers at others, with only a small concession that he messed up.

If it was me I would've paid the $58, then made a thread reccomending that the rules be made more clear for future years.

When you enter a contest it's on you to read all the rules beforehand. Mission cannot be held responsible for ensuring everyone did read them.

This is all a bit much. MJ didn't read the rules, admittedly somewhat vague, and owes, what, $58? Reasonable counter-proposal was rejected.

How about this: I pay the $58 to the LV Four Square, and I'll use the excuse to tell them not to send me anything asking for more money every other day...:-) ?

Seriously--acceptable to Aye and MJ? Then end of discussion. I'll validate the payment with Mission and that will be the end of this. MJ is clean, can play next year if he reads the rules, no hard feelings. I get the tax deduction on my 2014 filing :-)

Quote: chickenman

This is all a bit much. MJ didn't read the rules, admittedly somewhat vague, and owes, what, $58? Reasonable counter-proposal was rejected.

How about this: I pay the $58 to the LV Four Square, and I'll use the excuse to tell them not to send me anything asking for more money every other day...:-) ?

Seriously--acceptable to Aye and MJ? Then end of discussion. I'll validate the payment with Mission and that will be the end of this. MJ is clean, can play next year if he reads the rules, no hard feelings. I get the tax deduction on my 2014 filing :-)

I am disappointed neither Aye nor Joe have commented on my solution..... But chickenman has graciously offered to end this at NO COST to Joe, and should appease Aye because the charity will get the money.

By the way, I think I donated $25 or so last year. I can assure you the charity is approaching that in paper/printing/mailing costs soliciting future donations. No good deed goes unpunished....

Quote: SOOPOO

By the way, I think I donated $25 or so last year. I can assure you the charity is approaching that in paper/printing/mailing costs soliciting future donations. No good deed goes unpunished....

Yeah, it's been pretty high volume, but I suppose their model accepts some cost to get additional revenue.
I lost last year - couldn't play this year due to commitments - and forget what I owed the Wiz but his choice was the Four Square so vetted as previously mentioned.

Quote: minnesotajoe

...His donation proposal, I like the fact that it is not him hounding for money he will see... but also not fair on same grounds. No participant would have finished that low ever.

Thanks to chickenman and others who have proposed settlements from their own pockets. However, it would not be right for you to do it in order to settle this dispute (or course, please donate, or continue to donate, simply for charity's sake).

I would like to propose this as a final settlement:

Minnesotajoe will make a donation to threesquare (or a similar charity of his choice) in an amount that he thinks is fair. He will then post a description of his actions here.

Again, I think it is important to honor those who paid. A charity wins, MJ's is back in good standing, and we can all get back to analysis of our Superbowl props.

chickenman... I appreciate the fact you are willing to donate on my behalf, but I would never want somebody to 'pay my debt'. If you do donate, donate to a cause that you believe in.


Aye - the only charity that I donate to is St. Judes and Veterans because the money donated goes to the people that need... I am not saying the donation center you all propose in the forum is not reputable... but ask any average person on the streets how much they think donations to United Way and March of Dimes actually go to the people. It is shockingly low. I read an article about some pro athletes that have charities where less than 25% goes to the cause. That is unbelievable.

I'm going to think this over... My wager proposals still stand... but I will think of another option if you are not satisfied by it.

Quote: minnesotajoe

chickenman... I appreciate the fact you are willing to donate on my behalf, but I would never want somebody to 'pay my debt'. If you do donate, donate to a cause that you believe in.


Aye - the only charity that I donate to is St. Judes and Veterans because the money donated goes to the people that need... I am not saying the donation center you all propose in the forum is not reputable... but ask any average person on the streets how much they think donations to United Way and March of Dimes actually go to the people. It is shockingly low. I read an article about some pro athletes that have charities where less than 25% goes to the cause. That is unbelievable.

FYI, ayecarumba gave you the freedom to choose a "similar" charity of your choice. So $X where X doesn't make you look cheap to either St. Jude's or VA would work. I own a St. Jude's t-shirt which I bought from there and often wear in Tunica casinos, so I know which one I'd choose. :P

" Never have I welched on a wager. '

SO THIS WILL BE THE FIRST TIME AND FOR $58. I WILL DONATE $1 IF THAT HELPS.

Quote: minnesotajoe

...Aye - the only charity that I donate to is St. Judes and Veterans because the money donated goes to the people that need...

Either is very acceptable to me.

Then I retract my welching comment. And congratulate Aye on being quite a gentleman gambler.

Quote: Buzzard

" Never have I welched on a wager. '

SO THIS WILL BE THE FIRST TIME AND FOR $58. I WILL DONATE $1 IF THAT HELPS.

I will kick in $1 as well.

A cause as worthy as footing Minnesota Joes nfl pool bill is one I believe in.

Maybe someday everyone who enters a pool without reading the rules won't have to suffer

Watch out, Mike, you agreed with me on something. Planets are crashing in another universe.

So has everyone else paid up?

All but me, I hope .

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But I will pay twice what I owe do to the delay ?

Ah, for the good old days of putting cash in an envelope and mailing it with a 3 cent stamp. LOL